Poll: Do you like what was done with Chloe?

[Azra-El]

I know there was already a thread that was posted discussing the fact that Chloe has no knowledge of Clark's powers, past, krypton, etc. But there was not a poll associated with it. So my question is this. Do you like what happened, or not? I am curious what the polls say.


*Azra-El*

[vikingjedi]

It really pissed me off. I'll leave it at that.

[jimmyolsenblues]

it is a great story.....now chloe does not know...its sad i admit...but its closer to the mythology of superman.... i agree its good that chloe does not know.

[Darkside]

It was good. because Chloe looks peacful without Clark's burden and Clark doesn't freaking have to go to her everytime he needs help and will doe verything by his own.

[Jaderoyale]

Yes and no.
There are reasons as to why it was good, and reasons as to why it was bad.

[Kalista]

Oh yes, it's wonderful that Chloe was mindraped because it brings the show closer to the mithos. [/sarcasm]

[Fat Elvis 007]

Yes and no.
There are reasons as to why it was good, and reasons as to why it was bad.

I agree with this. I honestly was OK with the idea of Chloe losing her memory of Clark's secret. I mean, I don't like it, but it is a way to line the show up with the mythos and write Chloe off. It's really the only way it could happen, she is so tied into Clark's life.

But I'm not as concerned as to what it did to Chloe. After giving up on Chlois, I realized something like this was inevitable for her. I'm more concerned with what this does to Clark. As Kalista pointed out, Clark flat-out mindraped her. He had absolutely no right to violate her in that way. He took away years of her life. He showed a shocking amount of disrespect for his "best friend's" ability to make her own decisions. He showed that he believes he gets to decide people's lives for them, even when it violates their rights and their very minds. And that, my friends, is one scary ****ing so-called super-hero.

[lillie_poo_pod]

Oh yes, it's wonderful that Chloe was mindraped because it brings the show closer to the mithos. [/sarcasm]

Well wrt Chlois, this does close the argument of Lois not knowing the secret before he's Supes.

[WickedJenn]

I think I'm still dealing with the shock of that actually happening. I have to sort out my thoughts some more.

[Malicieux Toutou]

I agree with this. I honestly was OK with the idea of Chloe losing her memory of Clark's secret. I mean, I don't like it, but it is a way to line the show up with the mythos and write Chloe off. It's really the only way it could happen, she is so tied into Clark's life.

But I'm not as concerned as to what it did to Chloe. After giving up on Chlois, I realized something like this was inevitable for her. I'm more concerned with what this does to Clark. As Kalista pointed out, Clark flat-out mindraped her. He had absolutely no right to violate her in that way. He took away years of her life. He showed a shocking amount of disrespect for his "best friend's" ability to make her own decisions. He showed that he believes he gets to decide people's lives for them, even when it violates their rights and their very minds. And that, my friends, is one scary ****ing so-called super-hero.


Do you feel the same way about Christopher Reeve's Superman?

[costas22]

Brainiac mind raped Chloe.If it weren't for Clark she would have already become Brainiac.To be honest,it is a touchy subject.Clark made a decision that got him a lot of heat for playing God.I can understand everyone who thinks like that.But at the end of the day he did have Chloe's best interst at heart and you can clearly see how much it pained him to do it.Clark thinks that by doing that he gave Chloe a chance to live a normal life even though she told him that she wanted to be a part of his inner circle.If there is one thing that the comics and the movies have shown,is that Clark's secret is a burden that he preffers to carry by himself.Even though i am not totally against the mindwipe i believe that later in the season Chloe will recover those memories and for one specific reason.If Chloe loses these memories permanantly it will degrade the previous 4 seasons.

[Fat Elvis 007]

Do you feel the same way about Christopher Reeve's Superman?

Absolutely. Superman is a pretty good movie, but I've never met anyone who liked that stupid, nonsensical ending. Aside from the silliness of even having a power to erase people's memories by kissing them, it was also a mind-rape. He took away Lois's memories and choices. The comics just did a storyline, "Identity Crisis," about how this was wrong, and the people they mindraped were villains. Superman should have better morals than this.

[Joelito]

I think is good oportunity to remove Chloe from the "pedestal" is..and start her character to move on.

[Malicieux Toutou]

Absolutely. Superman is a pretty good movie, but I've never met anyone who liked that stupid, nonsensical ending. Aside from the silliness of even having a power to erase people's memories by kissing them, it was also a mind-rape. He took away Lois's memories and choices. The comics just did a storyline, "Identity Crisis," about how this was wrong, and the people they mindraped were villains. Superman should have better morals than this.

Everyone thought it was stupid. But I don't know too many people who thought it was so morally objectionable that he was no longer heroic. And what Clark did in Smallville is even more innocent. He isn't the one who wiped out the memories. He just chose not to restore all of them.

[Fat Elvis 007]

Everyone thought it was stupid. But I don't know too many people who thought it was so morally objectionable that he was no longer heroic. And what Clark did in Smallville is even more innocent. He isn't the one who wiped out the memories. He just chose not to restore all of them.

Maybe if this were the only time Clark has done something like this, I wouldn't be so pissed. I would still be mad, but not to the point of revoking his hero card.

But he betrayed Lex in "Memoria" in order to keep Lex from regaining his memories, and he's violated the rights of his friends in other ways too many times to count. So yes, I would no longer call him a hero.

And Clark may not have pulled the trigger, but he made the decision not to restore Chloe to full health. He made the decision to keep her from getting those memories back, just like he did with Lex. He violated her rights as a human being with free will. That's not who I want protecting me.

[Iluvgreen]

I am sooooooo pissed off. I hope she remembers sometime tlater this season...

[TWNik]

Chloe is now in danger from Doomsday, & Brainiac with no knowledge of it, to protect herself. Clark was wrong, whatever his good intentions were.

Chloe's memories should be restored.

[Forever_Chlark]

I agree with you

[Kalista]

Chloe is now in danger from Doomsday, & Brainiac with no knowledge of it, to protect herself. Clark was wrong, whatever his good intentions.

Exactly. So much for the thinly veiled argument that not knowing his secret is a protection.

[pizzahead2490]

its sad i have to admit, but i do belive she will get her memory back.

[Melekith]

And Clark may not have pulled the trigger, but he made the decision not to restore Chloe to full health. He made the decision to keep her from getting those memories back, just like he did with Lex. He violated her rights as a human being with free will. That's not who I want protecting me.I don't understand how you seem to be missing the basic moral principle here. Chloe still has all memories of Clark for the past 4 years minus his secret. I'll admit that it's a pretty big chunk, but Clark made this decision so he wouldn't have to restore Chloe back to any degree...ever again. It's a decision for the greater good. THIS IS THE STORY OF SUPERMAN. It is so deeply rooted in a world of sadness and lonliness. Clark is the LAST son of krypton, he has his fortress of SOLITUDE, and the sacrafices/decisions he makes are always for the greatter good. He is the most selfless hero out there, and his desire to be loved will never truly be fulfilled. That to me, is what makes him "super".

[ClarksGal]

I had mixed feelings about it, so I couldn't choose on the poll. I understand why Clark did it, and I don't think he mindraped her. He not only saved her from Brainiac (I guess...is she 100% Brainiac free now?), but he did what he has been saying for weeks that he'd like to do...mindwipe anyone who knows his secret. It was not for selfish reasons. It truly was a sacrifice for him. Was it his place to do it? There are arguments. But Superman has powers and technology out of the reach of humans. That will require him to make choices that are bigger and more complicated than humans have the ability to make. As Chloe herself said, "sometimes he may have to play God."

Was it the right choice? I don't know yet. The fact that Jor El didn't argue with him about it was interesting. I'll have to see what happens to decide how I feel about it in the long run. But I do agree with others that it was really, really sad.

[Timester]

Chloe is now in danger from Doomsday, & Brainiac with no knowledge of it, to protect herself. Clark was wrong, whatever his good intentions were.

Chloe's memories should be restored.

She lost Clark's secret. That's all. She doesn't know about Doomsday as she never did.

[morphs]

I'm very angry about it. I was always, and still am, for a Clark and Chloe love story. I really hope she regains her memories. She told Clark that the one memories of her and him together were what she'd always want to remember.

[chlo-el]

She lost Clark's secret. That's all. She doesn't know about Doomsday as she never did.

But she knew about Brainiac and if Clark didn't take all of her Clark's secret memories from her she would have realized that Brainiac was the connection between Davis and Chloe.

[WalkinDude]

Kinda sad, but I think it was for the best. Now he can move forward with his true destiny and won't have to be dependent on Chloe. Plus she's safer now, because the whole Brainiac thing happened because she knew his secret.

[chlo-el]

Anyway about the secret it's very sad. When I first heard about it I was so mad at Clark playing God. But the build up for this episode from the past few seasons has shown how dangerous his secret is. But what gets me is that in Bloodline he was thinking about telling Lois his secret to protect her so IDK. I still think that it is a bad move because Clark's secret is a huge part of who Chloe is and her reason for a lot of her actions. Without that IDK who she is. It would be one thing if she was still a reporter. Working at the Isis had a lot to W/Clark and secret as well, so I don't think this will last long, espeaclly w/ the empedning Doomsday thing, but we'll see.

[borednow]

None of the answers fit the way I feel.

Do I like what they did? No, I thought it was cheep and if they wanted Clark to detach more from depending so much on Chloe and Chloe to gain a life of her own independent from the secret that they were already heading that way without a big old mind wipe.

Do I think it makes the last four years of the show mean nothing? No. First of all I never watched the Chlark or the Chloe show... I never wanted to watch the Chlark or Chloe show. I watch Smallville, a show primarily about one person: Clark, and he developed over those years as did many other of Smallville's characters. So sorry to me they still mean something as many many non-Chloe knowing Clark's secret things happened.

Am I neutral about it? No, I think it sucks and was kinda a cheep move... does it ruin the show for me? No... Smallville is full of cheep moves, lightswitches, and dumb dead end plots. How many times has the Fortress magically saved the day? Anybody remember Grant? Why did Clark become a reporter again? I got over all that... I'll move past it... doesn't mean I don't think all of that sucks...

[Timester]

But she knew about Brainiac and if Clark didn't take all of her Clark's secret memories from her she would have realized that Brainiac was the connection between Davis and Chloe.

Her connection to Davis has nothing to do with Brainiac.

[redeem147]

I can't vote for any of these options. I think it was a good story point, but I have no idea if the outcome will be permanent or if it's just part of this season's storyline. I wouldn't be surprised if Clark's asking Jor-el not to return the memories of his powers has a greater purpose to that story, and think there will probably be ramifications.

[gkl73]

I don't understand how you seem to be missing the basic moral principle here. Chloe still has all memories of Clark for the past 4 years minus his secret. I'll admit that it's a pretty big chunk, but Clark made this decision so he wouldn't have to restore Chloe back to any degree...ever again. It's a decision for the greater good. THIS IS THE STORY OF SUPERMAN. It is so deeply rooted in a world of sadness and lonliness. Clark is the LAST son of krypton, he has his fortress of SOLITUDE, and the sacrafices/decisions he makes are always for the greatter good. He is the most selfless hero out there, and his desire to be loved will never truly be fulfilled. That to me, is what makes him "super".

Excellent point... What you people who voted 'no' don't realize is that this was not an "I'm playing god, I know what's best, selfish decision" that Clark made. (Mind rape? Really? Give me a break, guys.) He loves Chloe, and loves having someone to talk to about the "real" him. This was a compassionate, selfless decision that did not help him in ANY way and further isolates him from the people he cares about. He saw the toll that keeping his secret was having on Chloe's life and did what he did FOR HER BENEFIT even though it made him lose something he could never get back. Yes, it was sad, and when it happened, I was like... WHAT!? NO WAY!! But after I looked back on it I realized that this was an awesome plot line to throw in. Besides, she still remembers that Clark is her best friend, and that's what really matters. And by the way, I don't know how not remembering Brainiac, Krypton, etc. puts her more danger. It's not like if she was aware that Brainiac was coming after her she could do anything about it anyways. Clark still has her back... Get with program, guys.

[MetroGirl06]

It was for the best.

[chlo-el]

Her connection to Davis has nothing to do with Brainiac.

Oh so the Doom symbols were for kicks and giggles?

I'd like for that to be ture. But what I was getting at was that if Chloe had all of her memories she could figure out that the reason Davis was the last one she remebered was because of Brainiacs doing.

[Timester]

Oh so the Doom symbols were for kicks and giggles?

I'd like for that to be ture. But what I was getting at was that if Chloe had all of her memories she could figure out that the reason Davis was the last one she remebered was because of Brainiacs doing.

No, yet she had Brainiac on her head for along time now and she didn't connected Davis to it.

[Vindellavon]

No, I didn't like what happened with Chloe. Atrocious. Evil. Horrible. She deserved better, MUCH better.

[Tompouce]

I don't understand how you seem to be missing the basic moral principle here. Chloe still has all memories of Clark for the past 4 years minus his secret. I'll admit that it's a pretty big chunk, but Clark made this decision so he wouldn't have to restore Chloe back to any degree...ever again. It's a decision for the greater good. THIS IS THE STORY OF SUPERMAN. It is so deeply rooted in a world of sadness and lonliness. Clark is the LAST son of krypton, he has his fortress of SOLITUDE, and the sacrafices/decisions he makes are always for the greatter good. He is the most selfless hero out there, and his desire to be loved will never truly be fulfilled. That to me, is what makes him "super".
Exactly, I agree but perhaps there will be something which will help Chloe to remember everything about Clark...but I don't think it will come from Clark. His decision was good, he protects Chloe because he loves her. And in Superman except his parents and Lois (later) no one knows his secret so it had to happen. But we all know in SV everything is possible so wait and see

[Ayanne]

No, yet she had Brainiac on her head for along time now and she didn't connected Davis to it.


Does that change the fact Chloe is now in danger from Doomsday & Brainiac, but completely unaware of the threat. Clark has left her completely defenseless (she now doesn't even have the knowledge to make any connection, when something happens.) Is Clark going to now be with Chloe 24/7 to protect her? He knows Brainiac had a plan, he said so himself.

Jor-El says Brainiac is unpredictable & now Chloe has NOTHING to defend herself with, or the ability to recognize the danger.

[Krypton935]

NO! I HATE IT! Chloe was the only person that Clark had to confide in! Now he has no one except olliver and all he says is to go save the world! Clark totally needs Chloe! this really ticked me off! how can they possibly go back to having clark continuously lie to her?!?!?! I am very angry at this! All I can say is she had better find out again and soon!!!!!

[Ayanne]

Exactly, I agree but perhaps there will be something which will help Chloe to remember everything about Clark...but I don't think it will come from Clark. His decision was good, he protects Chloe because he loves her. And in Superman except his parents and Lois (later) no one knows his secret so it had to happen. But we all know in SV everything is possible so wait and see


On Smallville, Oliver knows his secret, so that doesn't work. This makes Clark look really bad, for so many reasons.

[mrw66855]

I don't understand how you seem to be missing the basic moral principle here. Chloe still has all memories of Clark for the past 4 years minus his secret. I'll admit that it's a pretty big chunk, but Clark made this decision so he wouldn't have to restore Chloe back to any degree...ever again. It's a decision for the greater good. THIS IS THE STORY OF SUPERMAN. It is so deeply rooted in a world of sadness and lonliness. Clark is the LAST son of krypton, he has his fortress of SOLITUDE, and the sacrafices/decisions he makes are always for the greatter good. He is the most selfless hero out there, and his desire to be loved will never truly be fulfilled. That to me, is what makes him "super".


Excellent point... What you people who voted 'no' don't realize is that this was not an "I'm playing god, I know what's best, selfish decision" that Clark made. (Mind rape? Really? Give me a break, guys.) He loves Chloe, and loves having someone to talk to about the "real" him. This was a compassionate, selfless decision that did not help him in ANY way and further isolates him from the people he cares about. He saw the toll that keeping his secret was having on Chloe's life and did what he did FOR HER BENEFIT even though it made him lose something he could never get back. Yes, it was sad, and when it happened, I was like... WHAT!? NO WAY!! But after I looked back on it I realized that this was an awesome plot line to throw in. Besides, she still remembers that Clark is her best friend, and that's what really matters. And by the way, I don't know how not remembering Brainiac, Krypton, etc. puts her more danger. It's not like if she was aware that Brainiac was coming after her she could do anything about it anyways. Clark still has her back... Get with program, guys. ita
Have you guys forgotten that Clark tried to warn Chloe and help her with the brainiac situation. And she told him to back off, and let her live her life. And what was the result? Clark tried to help her keep tried to warn her that this could happen did she listened. No. She got so used to being part of kryptonian issues that she thought she knew it all and new more than Clark. So in my opinion, she deserves what she got if she had listened to Clark she would have the privilege to still know his secret. That is what knowing his secret is, a privilege not a right. And Clark being hero did the right thing. Clean up cleanup, her mass for her. That is another thing here, or does that not only protect us but they also fix our mistakes. So it is Chloe's fault, not Clark's. He did not want to take away her memories. She put him in the situation, not the other way around and now their friendship is paying the ultimate price for her mistake. Remember, just my opinions.

[Timester]

Does that change the fact Chloe is now in danger from Doomsday & Brainiac, but completely unaware of the threat. Clark has left her completely defenseless (she now doesn't even have the knowledge to make any connection, when something happens.) Is Clark going to now be with Chloe 24/7 to protect her? He knows Brainiac had a plan, he said so himself.

Jor-El says Brainiac is unpredictable & now Chloe has NOTHING to defend herself with, or the ability to recognize the danger.

How can she be aware of the danger, even with Brainiac? Davis is Doomsday and she didn't know. He transforms on her weeding, without anyone knowing. No one can stop a rampaging Doomsday.

[Vindellavon]

No one can stop a rampaging Doomsday.

Not even Superman. Which makes the wedding worth the wait.

[umm]

Oh yes, it's wonderful that Chloe was mindraped because it brings the show closer to the mithos. [/sarcasm]


I couln't agree more! Doesn't matter that fans have been following their common fight for good for 4 years, doesn't matter that she has been Clark's most important sidekick for 4 years, one simply minderape and whooptydo we are closer to the methos, and that's all that matters!:mad::confused::(

[Ayanne]

How can she be aware of the danger, even with Brainiac? Davis is Doomsday and she didn't know. He transforms on her weeding, without anyone knowing. No one can stop a rampaging Doomsday.

Chloe no longer has the ability to recognize any sign of danger from either Brainiac or Doomsday, yet she's directly in the line of fire from both.

Clark's choice hasn't kept Chloe from any danger, it's only made her unaware of it, & lacking the ability to recognize any signs of what is going on. She's worse off now, without the knowledge.

She's completely defenseless & the Danger is still THERE.

[chlo-el]

No, yet she had Brainiac on her head for along time now and she didn't connected Davis to it.

She had no reason to until this whole Kryptonian code stuff. AsHe knew it was Brainiac doing and he had some kind of plan behind it.

[Tompouce]

On Smallville, Oliver knows his secret, so that doesn't work. This makes Clark look really bad, for so many reasons.
Yes but Oliver is a "hero" too (you know what I mean ?), he defends people with his own means. It is not the same than Chloe. She is always a target as Clark's best friend. Oliver has a life without Clark, it is not the case for Chloe (except her love for Jimmy, she is 100% in Clark's life ). To me, there is no comparison. I don't think Clark can be blamed;)

[Timester]

Chloe no longer has the ability to recognize any sign of danger from either Brainiac or Doomsday, yet she's directly in the line of fire from both.

Clark's choice hasn't kept Chloe from any danger, it's only made her unaware of it, & lacking the ability to recognize any signs of what is going on. She's worse off now, without the knowledge.

She's completely defenseless & the Danger is still THERE.

It's Doomsday. There is no defense. Whatsoever.

[Ayanne]

Yes but Oliver is a "hero" too (you know what I mean ?), he defends people with his own means. It is not the same than Chloe. She is always a target as Clark's best friend. Oliver has a life without Clark, it is not the case for Chloe (except her love for Jimmy, she is 100% in Clark's life ). To me, there is no comparison. I don't think Clark can be blamed;)


And Chloe have proven she is a heroine in her own right. Clark said himself "You saved me, more times than I ever saved you." Literally, many times.

I do blame Clark, whatever his motives - the actions were wrong. Superman stands for truth & Justice, taking Chloe's ability to decide for herself & now even in a defenseless position is neither.

[Timester]

She had no reason to until this whole Kryptonian code stuff. AsHe knew it was Brainiac doing and he had some kind of plan behind it.

You are assuming that Chloaic was active all this time and planned Chloe-Davis ship. There is no proof of that.

[Fat Elvis 007]

I don't understand how you seem to be missing the basic moral principle here. Chloe still has all memories of Clark for the past 4 years minus his secret. I'll admit that it's a pretty big chunk, but Clark made this decision so he wouldn't have to restore Chloe back to any degree...ever again. It's a decision for the greater good. THIS IS THE STORY OF SUPERMAN. It is so deeply rooted in a world of sadness and lonliness. Clark is the LAST son of krypton, he has his fortress of SOLITUDE, and the sacrafices/decisions he makes are always for the greatter good. He is the most selfless hero out there, and his desire to be loved will never truly be fulfilled. That to me, is what makes him "super".

Plenty of dictators have taken people's rights away while claiming it's for "the greater good." Making the choice not to restore all of Chloe's memories was a clear violation of her rights as a human being.

[Ayanne]

It's Doomsday. There is no defense. Whatsoever.

Knowledge is always a defense, against dangerous situations. And Brainiac is also a threat.

[Timester]

Knowledge is always a defense, against anything. And Brainiac is also a threat.

There is NO defense against Doomsday. That's all I can say without spoilers.

[chlo-el]

You are assuming that Chloaic was active all this time and planned Chloe-Davis ship. There is no proof of that.

I wasn't talking about all of this time I was just talking about this last episode it was clear that Brainiac was getting rid of her memories and only leaving Davis. And it was Brainiacs way of contacting Doom. He even left the Doom symbol.

[Timester]

I wasn't talking about all of this time I was just talking about this last episode it was clear that Brainiac was getting rid of her memories and only leaving Davis. And it was Brainiacs way of contacting Doom. He even left the Doom symbol.

Memories of Davis. Davis, not Doomsday.

[Malicieux Toutou]

I think the memory wipe represents what is so great about this season... its boldness. Smallville had been getting stale, and now it feels fresh again. And I don't believe the Chloe fans who say they are going to stop watching now. I think they'll be tuned in every week hoping this is the week Chloe gets her memory back. And when she does, TPTB will be praised for an amazing plot twist that brought so much drama. If Smallville is actually making people cry, then they are doing something right.

[Fat Elvis 007]

Excellent point... What you people who voted 'no' don't realize is that this was not an "I'm playing god, I know what's best, selfish decision" that Clark made. (Mind rape? Really? Give me a break, guys.) He loves Chloe, and loves having someone to talk to about the "real" him. This was a compassionate, selfless decision that did not help him in ANY way and further isolates him from the people he cares about. He saw the toll that keeping his secret was having on Chloe's life and did what he did FOR HER BENEFIT even though it made him lose something he could never get back. Yes, it was sad, and when it happened, I was like... WHAT!? NO WAY!! But after I looked back on it I realized that this was an awesome plot line to throw in. Besides, she still remembers that Clark is her best friend, and that's what really matters. And by the way, I don't know how not remembering Brainiac, Krypton, etc. puts her more danger. It's not like if she was aware that Brainiac was coming after her she could do anything about it anyways. Clark still has her back... Get with program, guys.

This smacks of arrogance to me. "Little lady" Chloe just can't handle Clark's secret so the "Big Strong Man" has to make her life decisions for her, completely without her knowledge.

There are some choices that WE have to make for ourselves. Just because he has God-like powers doesn't mean he can control every element of our lives. This is a lesson I would like our young Superman to learn.

And yes, it was a mind rape. The mind is our most valuable possession. It is who we are. To have someone take our memories from us would be the deepest invasion of ourselves imaginable, which is why I call it rape. It's a form of mind control. Yeah, I know Clark didn't directly take them, but he didn't give them back when he had the chance, and that is just as bad.

[ginnyfan]

Uh... Chloe's story isn't over. I feel like this sort of question was asked in an earlier episode forum and... I want to wait and see how things play out. Brainiac was erasing Chloe's memories. Clark took action and saved her from Brainiac. As much as I dislike his choice to leave out her memory of his secret, I can see why Clark did it. Part of the reason Chloe hid the reality of what Brainiac was doing to her, is that she knew what Clark would think. His secret destroyed Chloe's life. Chloe feels that the good outweighed the bad and doesn't have any regrets. But Clark would rather Chloe have a whole and happy life without his secret, than sacrifice herself for him. That's noble. I want to see how things play out. I have a lot of trust for the writers and story developers this season.

[mrw66855]

And Chloe have proven she is a heroine in her own right. Clark said himself "You saved me, more times than I ever saved you." Literally, many times.

I do blame Clark, whatever his motives - the actions were wrong. Superman stands for truth & Justice, taking Chloe's ability to decide for herself & now even in a defenseless position is neither.
In my opinion, she made her decision herself when she decided not to even consider Clark's warning and think about what happened with brainiac (and if you do not think that she thought. Brainiac was a threat. It is brainiac, he is ailing computer, who tried to destroy the planet several times). So yes, Clark did let her make her own decision and live her life. But eventually, he had no choice but to step in cleanup her mass.

[Malicieux Toutou]

Yeah, I know Clark didn't directly take them, but he didn't give them back when he had the chance, and that is just as bad.

I disagree there. Ethically, I think it would be profoundly different if next episode Clark uses physical force to take Lana and Pete to the Fortress to have a mind wipe.

[EJD1984]

Personally I don't think Chole is in any sort of danger from Davis(Doomsday) - Remember he's in love with her and will protect her from any perceived danger.

This also maybe a setup of some sort to have Chole's memories restored later in the season.

[Fat Elvis 007]

I disagree there. Ethically, I think it would be profoundly different if next episode Clark uses physical force to take Lana and Pete to the Fortress to have a mind wipe.

Even if it were for "the greater good?"

[EJD1984]

Personally I don't think Chole is in any sort of danger from Davis(Doomsday) - Remember he's in love with her and will protect her from any perceived danger.

This also maybe a setup of some sort to have Chole's memories restored later in the season.

[HeartChakraBabe]

Chloe is now in danger from Doomsday, & Brainiac with no knowledge of it, to protect herself. Clark was wrong, whatever his good intentions were.

Chloe's memories should be restored.

ITA. I am mightily pissed off by what they did. :mad:

[EJD1984]

Personally I don't think Chole is in any sort of danger from Davis(Doomsday) - Remember he's in love with her and will protect her from any perceived danger.

This also maybe a setup of some sort to have Chole's memories restored later in the season.

[TWNik]

ITA. I am mightily pissed off by what they did. :mad:

As am I, it was not an ethical choice & put Clark on the same level as Brainiac.

[4EverSmallville]

I enjoyed the Clark - Chloe interaction that developed from her knowing his secret, but I am not sorry to see her memories go. In order to become Superman, Clark has to continue to grow and develop on his own without Chloe, or Braniac-enhanced Chloe, putting in the cognitive effort and leaving Clark with nothing to do but the heavy lifting. This move on the part of PS3 shows promise for Clark to finally step up and become a man, superman.

Clark having Jor-El erase Chloe's memories of Clark's abilities was controversial, but he did what he thought, and I agree, was best for Chloe's well being. He's trying to save her life. Clark plays God nearly every episode and if he didn't he wouldn't be saving lives at all.

[Billy Jor-El]

In NO WAY do I condone the BDA's actions. Yeah, I see his point, but where does it end? He could mind-rape anyone whom he feels is threatened or a threat. Chloe should be able to control her own life! She indeed may be in more danger now, looking like a lost puppy when confronted again with Brainiac; and gee, no one is going to notice she's totally different now? The way she looks at and refers to Clark will not have any bearing on past events. A girl-to-girl talk with Lana? Just wait till Lana brings up Clark's powers and sees her blank stare.

Oh, and despite all of this...AM was MAGNIFICENT in the role ;) I truly believed her fear in not recognizing Jimmy, and the fear of losing Clark; she is a great actress!!!!

And, no, I didn't like the "kiss of forgetfulness" in Supes II, either.....

[rogueslayer1985]

[QUOTE]im sorry but they have screwed with the character of chloe too much this season. why even bother asking allison mack to return, was it just to crap all over a character we loved. Why not erase everything about her. why leave her blond? lets turn her in to a red head or a goth!!! This is pathetic. i for one will not be watching this pathetic show ever again!!!

[Stu.Kent]

when i first read the spoilers i thought it would really annoy me but after they've shamelessly defaced chloe's character this season i find i really don't care. don't get me wrong tho i fully understand: clark is an inch away from his blue tights and chloe needs to be pushed aside, as great a character as she was she just straight up doesn't fit in to superman's world. Young clark needed her but superman is a rock. So yeah if this had happened any other season i would probably be furious but the chloe i loved disappeared a long time ago this is just the final nail in her coffin.

R.I.P. Chloe Sullivan

[unfocused]

I'm really loving what they are doing with Chloe this year :)

[rogueslayer1985]

[QUOTE]im sorry but they have screwed with the character of chloe too much this season. why even bother asking allison mack to return, was it just to crap all over a character we loved. Why not erase everything about her. why leave her blond? lets turn her in to a red head or a goth!!! This is pathetic. i for one will not be watching this pathetic show ever again!!!

[Doomsday911]

I bet in the near future John Jones will return her memories somehow

[vikingjedi]

Does that change the fact Chloe is now in danger from Doomsday & Brainiac, but completely unaware of the threat. Clark has left her completely defenseless (she now doesn't even have the knowledge to make any connection, when something happens.) Is Clark going to now be with Chloe 24/7 to protect her? He knows Brainiac had a plan, he said so himself.

Jor-El says Brainiac is unpredictable & now Chloe has NOTHING to defend herself with, or the ability to recognize the danger.

Great point, didnt even think of that.

[OutlawAdamKnight]

lol ok

[davidbrenton]

It was the single saddest moment in Smallville. And getting that emotion from me is something smallville has never done before.

I APPLAUD THEM 100% for getting that reaction from me. Although I'm reserving my long-term impression of this story line, I APPLAUD the BOLD, DECISIVE DESICION MAKING that has potential to deliver things I LOVE and things I HATE. I prefer this over consistently walking on eggshells, and providing things I consistently find OKAY.

The later view is what's been my impression of much of the past seasons of Smallville: EGGSHELLS.


CHLOE STORYLINE:
There are a tremendous amount of loopholes in the reality of this situation playing out in that so many of her other memories (Her memories of Lana, her memories and experiences with Green Arrow and Justice League) are indirectly LINKED with the common knowledge of WHO CLARK IS. It's infeasible to readily accept that she remembers everything except Clark's secret when so much of the experiences only make sense and be complete with that knowledge. How she can't come across her own diary, pictures, etc. that consistently challenge and provoke the hidden memories is beyond my comprehension.

But creatively, I'm with the show 100% and have no issue suspended disbelief on account of some loopholes.

[Chlollie]

Yes, and no. Bad move on making Chloe forget about Clark's secret. They had a very great friendship. I don't think they will be that close anymore. But I think she will get it back, a least I hope so.

[BOUROUX]

No, it's not a good move.
We lost the best relation of Smallville. She don't remenber her healing power.
i believe that later in the season Chloe will recover those memories and for one specific reason. If Chloe loses these memories permanantly it will degrade the previous 4 seasons. If you erase 4 seasons, you erase 4 DVD box of Smallville. $$$$$ ?

[Nerial]

I wish there was a better option for "divided" on this issue.

I don't hate that Chloe no longer knows, mainly because I think it might better explain why she's not around in the comics when she's obviously such a loved character. The only other options are to either get DC to take up her officially, or kill her off. This was a exit door that had the best chance of success.

Honestly, this character is so loved, DC should pick her up. But, on the high chance they end up refusing after the series ends, I'd rather think that Clark and Chloe's friendship slowly faded, she never again remembers he's an alien, and she has a happy life.

But, I will severely miss their close connection. I think Clark's decision was unfair to Chloe, but very Superman-ish in his strong sense of protecting his loved ones. Clark is all heart, so it's in his character to be impulsive like that. Was it a violation of Chloe's memories? Yes, but if he's going to erase her memory, it's in the most loving of ways. :)

[Khyla]

i'm gonna keep a wait and see attitude. If they don't bring back our old Chloe and the Chlark relationship (the BEST well-crafted relationship I have ever had the pleasure to be entertained by), then I too am out of here! :(

[MBrittan]

What an absolutely HORRENDOUS decision. If they were going to do this, they should have done it a looooong time ago. Maybe 2-3 episodes after she found out. FOUR YEARS LATER?!!? The person who said that they've effectively "erased" the last four years is correct. The show is NOT going to be the same without Chloe knowing. She's the one person he COULD confide in. How deep does this go? Is knowledge of the Justice League gone too? Does she no longer work at the Isis foundation, assisting the meteor infected? Will she go BACK on the trail of uncovering Clark's secret? Is the wall of weird coming back now that she won't have the "guilt" associated with one of her friends being on of them? Will this spark her interest in reporting again? This seems like a HUGE step backward for the show. If they didn't want the "baggage" of having Chloe know Clark's secret, they should have just killed her off. I could have lived with that A LOT easier. It would have been sad, but it would have made more sense.
-M-

[SteveS]

Chloe is and has been probably the single best idea ever screened to the Superman story, and of course, the only actress on Smallville to win any kind of recognition for her acting. (not counting Annette O'Toole or any other senior or visiting stars).

As far as I can tell, Chloe still retains her healing power, who knows... the physician may heal herself and be the rock that ClarkMan has needed on Smallville.

[MBrittan]

What an absolutely HORRENDOUS decision. If they were going to do this, they should have done it a looooong time ago. Maybe 2-3 episodes after she found out. FOUR YEARS LATER?!!? The person who said that they've effectively "erased" the last four years is correct. The show is NOT going to be the same without Chloe knowing. She's the one person he COULD confide in. How deep does this go? Is knowledge of the Justice League gone too? Does she no longer work at the Isis foundation, assisting the meteor infected? Will she go BACK on the trail of uncovering Clark's secret? Is the wall of weird coming back now that she won't have the "guilt" associated with one of her friends being on of them? Will this spark her interest in reporting again? This seems like a HUGE step backward for the show. If they didn't want the "baggage" of having Chloe know Clark's secret, they should have just killed her off. I could have lived with that A LOT easier. It would have been sad, but it would have made more sense.
-M-

[SteveS]

I can see 'their' argument for the story in this episode, just as I can see a return to the Chloe that has been a mainstay on Smallville for years. There is no other adequate substitute.

[davidbrenton]

I disagree completely. I think they gave an incredibly thoughtful, ambitious, albeit risky plot to Chloe and the sheer attention to detail they've paid to the character has been amazing.

As I mentioned in former threads, I really believe this season was PS3 and writers attempt to dissect Chloe's character. In looking at it from this perspective, the writers decision to erase Chloe's memory and significantly impactful experiences was NEEDED and BRILLIANT way to HIGHLIGHT the exact relationship between those experiences and who Chloe became emotionally and morally. The question lingering over who was in control: Chloe or Brainiac? was also awesome and purposeful because it got the audience involved in the character analysis and made them analyse and think about Chloe's character themselves.

I personally think it was the most fascinating and engrosing character dissection attempted by the writers.

[rep4clark]

<TABLE class=tborder id=post4163325 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_4163325 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #880000 1px solid">I give this episode a 4. personally I am glad that they took some of Choe's memories away. First, Chloe was a big help, but she ended up paying a heavy cost such as being infected by braniac and lets not forget that she actually killed someone. Sure she was trying to protect clark, But with all of Clark's powers he has never killed anyone. So Chloe losing her memory was a win, win, situation for her because she can now live a happy normal life and she wont have to live with the burden that she took someones life. By the way did anyone notice at the end of Abyss on how calm, happy, and relaxed Chloe seemed seated next to jimmy before she went out and spoke with davis. She truly seemed happy. Clark behaved correctly in doing what he did. In my opinion Chloe has helped Clark time and time again, now she has been given the ultimate reward, a chance at a new life, to be married and have children and prosper. Chloe deserves to have what other people take for granted.
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[BOUROUX]

Clark's secret was at the center of her life. When she lost that knowledge, it leads to her not knowing anything that she learned as a result of Clark's secret. It erases every conversation that sprung up due to his secret. It leaves Chloe without reason for any feelings of admiration or pride that might linger for Clark.

We were only told that all knowledge of Clark's secret was erased, not that her memories were reworked. Either she is riddled with a spotty memory or she doesn't even know that she is missing any info.

Since she and Jimmy were talking about her complete recovery, we have to believe that she has no obvious blank spots, which leads me to believe complete events were removed from her memory (anything that related to knowing Clark's secret) rather than being left with an edited version.

So no JL, no chat's with Martha, no memory of what happened to Linda Lake, no spur of the moment dinner at the Kent farm, no fireside chats, no sunny picnic, no DP car save, no Vessel kiss. Without Chloe knowing Clark's secret, she can't know anything about countless everyday events of her life.

She can't know herself

[rep4clark]

I'm really loving what they are doing with Chloe this year :)

I do to, i love Chloe, but lets face it her future and lana's are no longer intertwinded with clark as time goes on. I think PS3 is giving them a dignified way out of the story before clark moves on with his life.

[skully]

I disagree completely. I think they gave an incredibly thoughtful, ambitious, albeit risky plot to Chloe and the sheer attention to detail they've paid to the character has been amazing.

As I mentioned in former threads, I really believe this season was PS3 and writers attempt to dissect Chloe's character. In looking at it from this perspective, the writers decision to erase Chloe's memory and significantly impactful experiences was NEEDED and BRILLIANT way to HIGHLIGHT the exact relationship between those experiences and who Chloe became emotionally and morally. The question lingering over who was in control: Chloe or Brainiac? was also awesome and purposeful because it got the audience involved in the character analysis and made them analyse and think about Chloe's character themselves.

I personally think it was the most fascinating and engrosing character dissection attempted by the writers.Well said. Let's see what PS3 have in store. They haven't let us down so far. :)

[Estro-gen X]

The Chloe situation has shaken things up a lot. I don't know where her character can go from here. I guess we can all be surprised

[biggkoz]

What an absolutely HORRENDOUS decision. If they were going to do this, they should have done it a looooong time ago. Maybe 2-3 episodes after she found out. FOUR YEARS LATER?!!? The person who said that they've effectively "erased" the last four years is correct. The show is NOT going to be the same without Chloe knowing. She's the one person he COULD confide in. How deep does this go? Is knowledge of the Justice League gone too? Does she no longer work at the Isis foundation, assisting the meteor infected? Will she go BACK on the trail of uncovering Clark's secret? Is the wall of weird coming back now that she won't have the "guilt" associated with one of her friends being on of them? Will this spark her interest in reporting again? This seems like a HUGE step backward for the show. If they didn't want the "baggage" of having Chloe know Clark's secret, they should have just killed her off. I could have lived with that A LOT easier. It would have been sad, but it would have made more sense.
-M-

How many times has that been copied and pasted now?

[Ayanne]

Great point, didnt even think of that.

Clark has done nothing to protect her with this mind-rape, in fact he's made her more likely to be hurt, because of she won't understand or recognize the danger.

Badly done. VERY Badly done.

[j-kent]

That's a bit silly that most ppl voted that it meant nothing now. We've had our great moments of Chlark, but if one wanted a show that stayed the same forever then stick to Smallville Season 1-4. If people really feel like it meant nothing...then you're not seeing the big picture here..and it makes me wonder what demographic is actually watching this show. If the core of the show was the companionship of Chlark, then we might as well have called the show FRIENDS (w/ Chlark). But we watch a superman mythos/take to see Clark become Superman. She may not remember now, but those years she knew was to Clark's benefit- and she' still happy! I'd admit that Chloe was essential to (beginning) Smallville in the sense of helping Clark grow up. She was essentially his training wheels. She's served her purpose and had a very fair share to dazzle the audience. But now this show has begun its take on a man of himself- Superman. This show has change, plot, originality (thanks to the writers), and entertainment.

Not to mention a very Supermanly sacrifice to save a life....PS3 keep doing your thing!

[Clarky123]

Clark has done nothing to protect her with this mind-rape, in fact he's made her more likely to be hurt, because of she won't understand or recognize the danger.

Badly done. VERY Badly done.


How could she protect her self from Brainiac if she knew about his existence? just curios



Anyways i think it was a great move, theese are my reasons

1.She can have a normal life (hopefully)

2.Clark is 1 step closer to becoming superman

3. And finally Less trust for Chloe more trust for Lois:)

[Tompouce]

Uh... Chloe's story isn't over. I feel like this sort of question was asked in an earlier episode forum and... I want to wait and see how things play out. Brainiac was erasing Chloe's memories. Clark took action and saved her from Brainiac. As much as I dislike his choice to leave out her memory of his secret, I can see why Clark did it. Part of the reason Chloe hid the reality of what Brainiac was doing to her, is that she knew what Clark would think. His secret destroyed Chloe's life. Chloe feels that the good outweighed the bad and doesn't have any regrets. But Clark would rather Chloe have a whole and happy life without his secret, than sacrifice herself for him. That's noble. I want to see how things play out. I have a lot of trust for the writers and story developers this season.
It is exactly what I feel. I understand people who agree and also those who disagree Clark's choice but I think we have to wait to know what will happen after. It is done on purpose. Chloe's character is not over at all . To defend Clark I would say it was a hard choice, his completely on his own now...This decision was taken with love and it is what matters

[Mars Investigations]

You don't really have an option that fits my opinion.

I would've picked: "Yes, it's an interesting twist, but Chloe will definitely regain her memories soon".

[Becc]

I hope she'll get her memory back, but if she does how will she ever be able to forgive Clark for what he has done to her. I would honestly like to know how Chloe is supposed to remember anything from the last 4 years when she devoted herself to protecting Clark and keeping his secret. Not only that but how much danger is she in now from Brainiac?

[ShelbyKent]

I don't think the memory loss is permanent.

I'm in 'wait and see' mode and looking at how this decision will impact Clark's further superhero evolution

[Tompouce]

I don't think the memory loss is permanent.

I'm in 'wait and see' mode and looking at how this decision will impact Clark's further superhero evolution
I am exactly like you, if I had to bet, i would bet Chloe will recover memory. What was the most important to me in this epi is that Clark is very suspicious about Davis, it is obvious he doesn't trust him...

[wolverine316]

The word happy cannot describe how I feel right now. Hello Superman!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you PS3!!!!!!!!!!!

[umm]

What an absolutely HORRENDOUS decision. If they were going to do this, they should have done it a looooong time ago. Maybe 2-3 episodes after she found out. FOUR YEARS LATER?!!? The person who said that they've effectively "erased" the last four years is correct. The show is NOT going to be the same without Chloe knowing. She's the one person he COULD confide in. How deep does this go? Is knowledge of the Justice League gone too? Does she no longer work at the Isis foundation, assisting the meteor infected? Will she go BACK on the trail of uncovering Clark's secret? Is the wall of weird coming back now that she won't have the "guilt" associated with one of her friends being on of them? Will this spark her interest in reporting again? This seems like a HUGE step backward for the show. If they didn't want the "baggage" of having Chloe know Clark's secret, they should have just killed her off. I could have lived with that A LOT easier. It would have been sad, but it would have made more sense.
-M-

Exactly, by erasing his secreet from her mind, has he erased her knowledge of meteroinfected people, the Isis, Lex' evildoings, tess evildoings, Olivers double identity and his conection to Justice League, Chloe's work at the Isis, her job as Watchtower, I mean he had to have known that this is bigger than her just knowing his secreet, he basicaly erased her identity! Has even thought about the ramifications of his actions?

[Hopefulsuicide]

the only reason i haven't hit the roof on this one is that i don't believe it can possibly last long

but it still makes me angry on principal

what RIGHT does he have to rape her of her memories? i don't care what his intentions are, you DON'T play with someone's mind like that, you don't play god with someone's LIFE! it's immoral, and i think it's selfish

he doesn't want to feel guilty about Chloe getting hurt anymore, he doesn't want to have the burden of Chloe constantly getting in trouble because she is trying to help him... but she's still going to get hurt! she still has braniacness about her, she is still a meteor freak (even if her powers are dormant now), she has still killed somebody... and now she won't even remember it!

but it just can't go on long. with davis slowly getting worse, with Bride coming up, i can't see the secret being contained through all that. and if it is, i can't see what Chloe is going to do in terms of advancing any plots whatsoever. are she and jimmy just going to live happily ever after?

so much can be done with that girl, my favourite option being helping Oliver, but she can't do any of that if arrogant men decide what is right for her

if chloe ever finds out what he did to her, i hope she disowns him as a friend

[umm]

I don't think the memory loss is permanent. I'm in 'wait and see' mode and looking at how this decision will impact Clark's further superhero evolution

I agree, it better not be permanent! And I am also in 'wait, see and hope' mode that the writers have some great twist up their sleave concerning the return of Chloe's memories!

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


the only reason i haven't hit the roof on this one is that i don't believe it can possibly last longbut it still makes me angry on principal
what RIGHT does he have to rape her of her memories? i don't care what his intentions are, you DON'T play with someone's mind like that, you don't play god with someone's LIFE! it's immoral, and i think it's selfish....so much can be done with that girl, my favourite option being helping Oliver, but she can't do any of that if arrogant men decide what is right for her...if chloe ever finds out what he did to her, i hope she disowns him as a friend

I agree!

[Clarky123]

the only reason i haven't hit the roof on this one is that i don't believe it can possibly last long

but it still makes me angry on principal

what RIGHT does he have to rape her of her memories? i don't care what his intentions are, you DON'T play with someone's mind like that, you don't play god with someone's LIFE! it's immoral, and i think it's selfish

he doesn't want to feel guilty about Chloe getting hurt anymore, he doesn't want to have the burden of Chloe constantly getting in trouble because she is trying to help him... but she's still going to get hurt! she still has braniacness about her, she is still a meteor freak (even if her powers are dormant now), she has still killed somebody... and now she won't even remember it!

but it just can't go on long. with davis slowly getting worse, with Bride coming up, i can't see the secret being contained through all that. and if it is, i can't see what Chloe is going to do in terms of advancing any plots whatsoever. are she and jimmy just going to live happily ever after?

so much can be done with that girl, my favourite option being helping Oliver, but she can't do any of that if arrogant men decide what is right for her

if chloe ever finds out what he did to her, i hope she disowns him as a friend


I think she will remember killing him but not why, anyways Clark did this so she could live a normal life witch he will never be able to, she has been such a good friend to him but he thought she would be safer without knowing and anyways how could he know DD is so close same with Brainiac, I think he had a tuff choice and did the right move.

Every SINGLE person who knew/know his secret got killed or their lifes were almost completetly ruined. maybe he thought it was just a matter of time if the same happened to her, that would not only ruin her life but jimmys too and all he wants to do is for her to be happy and that is with jimmy.

[Tompouce]

Umm, I wonder (we are in SV, don't forget lol)if she has forgotten all about Isis, meteorinfected people,...I think it is just the Clark's secret which is out of her brain...If you are right, it is really weird as a decision...

[OneShotClois]

Hmm. Well IMO I like what was done in Abyss. Yeah, it does seem kind of like the 4 years of Chloe knowing who Clark exactly was, was a waste.. but there is a time we have to move on, and Clark needs to embrace his true identity. PS3 was the best thing that happened to Smallville, so don't blame them at all. If anything people should be mad at AlMiles. Maybe some of you didn't know, but Chloe isn't in the Superman Mythos. Just maybe a few reasons why Clark needs to learn to do things on his own and not always have to rely on Chloe.

If anything, this was just another step in the right direction.

[Tompouce]

[quote=Hopefulsuicide;4163894],she has still killed somebody... and now she won't even remember it!
/quote]
You know what ? With the Chloe memory loss, I think they are many people who have forgotten about the murder, everybody seems so shaken by Clark's decision. I have completly forgotten the villain Chloe:lol:

[Hopefulsuicide]

I think she will remember killing him but not why.

my god, that would be even worse! now Chloe is plagued by the memory of murdering someone, and she doesn't even know why she did it! AHHHHHHH

[Mr.White]

Well I am all for what was done with Chloe. Taking away the memories of what she knows about Clark ,that is, the main aspects of he being an alien and all the things that they have shared together since she first learned of his secret was the right thing to do.


For one thing Clark did this for her benefit. He didn't want her burdened with being a caretaker for his identity or any of his other secrets considering what knowing this information has done to others and their lives. He wasn't in the least bit doing this for selfish reasons.


As for as Chloe not being able to protect herself from either Doomsday or Brainiac now that she doesn't have any of her memories of what she "really" knows about Clark Kent, that's irrelevant. The entire planet is in danger now that Doomsday is here and Brainiac has a much bigger mission programmed for itself not the least of which is the destruction of the House Of El and the destruction of Earth. One earthling's survival doesn't mean all that much to Brainiac.


Finally the show could finally move away from having Chloe Sullivan in the spotlight and put Clark Kent back in it. The show's premise was about a young fellow's development before he becomes the Man Of Steel. The show has used Chloe well for its' purposes but now it is time to scale back the character and put the focus back on Clark Kent.

[Hopefulsuicide]

but what he did was immoral... how can anyone be on board with that

[Clarky123]

Hmm. Well IMO I like what was done in Abyss. Yeah, it does seem kind of like the 4 years of Chloe knowing who Clark exactly was, was a waste.. but there is a time we have to move on, and Clark needs to embrace his true identity. PS3 was the best thing that happened to Smallville, so don't blame them at all. If anything people should be mad at AlMiles. Maybe some of you didn't know, but Chloe isn't in the Superman Mythos. Just maybe a few reasons why Clark needs to learn to do things on his own and not always have to rely on Chloe.

If anything, this was just another step in the right direction.


agree with you 100%







written by Hopefulsuicide
my god, that would be even worse! now Chloe is plagued by the memory of murdering someone, and she doesn't even know why she did it! AHHHHHHH

Well, as a chloe hater , id think that would be hillarios.


But, If she now remembers it, she might remember she had a darn good reason for doing it but she just cant remember? OR it might have been brainiac, so she dosent remember it at all, Or she remembers and roughly patches it as protecting lois since he tried to kill her?

[Hopefulsuicide]

ah, your a Chloe hater, no wonder you liked this episode

but anyway, that's ridiculous... she won't remember why and that should be something that she won't even be able to live with, we are talking about MURDER! it's not something she is going to go 'meh, can't remember but nevermind'

[Mr.White]

but what he did was immoral... how can anyone be on board with that

He didn't take away all of her memories. He took away those he considered to be a danger and a burden to her. I can be on board with considering what he did was in her best interests. What he did was was not immoral. Killing her would have been and he wouldn't do that.

[Hopefulsuicide]

he took away her free will... he took away her right to make decisions for herself... he controlled her future by erasing a part of her past

that is immoral

[Clarky123]

well, he also cured her and basicly "killed" his father once more. lol.


"Great leaders are defined by their diffucult decions theyve made"

Anyhow, Maybe chloe can be a normal person who dosent worry about the world ending anytime soon! Aint you glad that chloe has that off her shoulders?

[Hopefulsuicide]

no

some people want that. Chloe didn't. she made that expressly clear when she said that knowing Clark's secret had meant she could make an impact on the world

she didn't want to forget, Clark MADE her

and Superman is not supposed to be a leader! he is not a ruler or anything of the sort. he is a guardian angel, he is a saviour, he is the hero.

p.s. what do you mean he killed his father, and are you saying its a good thing or a bad thing?

[Mr.White]

he took away her free will... he took away her right to make decisions for herself... he controlled her future by erasing a part of her past

that is immoral

Clark did not take away Chloe's free will. She is free to do what she wants. He didn't make her a slave of his.

He surely did not take away the right to make decisions for herself. My first point in this post says that.

Clark cannot control her future by taking away a "certain" part of her past. He freed her of an obligation that would have been a problem for her in her future.

What Clark did was not immoral.

[rogueslayer1985]

Clark's secret was at the center of her life. When she lost that knowledge, it leads to her not knowing anything that she learned as a result of Clark's secret. It erases every conversation that sprung up due to his secret. It leaves Chloe without reason for any feelings of admiration or pride that might linger for Clark.

We were only told that all knowledge of Clark's secret was erased, not that her memories were reworked. Either she is riddled with a spotty memory or she doesn't even know that she is missing any info.

Since she and Jimmy were talking about her complete recovery, we have to believe that she has no obvious blank spots, which leads me to believe complete events were removed from her memory (anything that related to knowing Clark's secret) rather than being left with an edited version.

So no JL, no chat's with Martha, no memory of what happened to Linda Lake, no spur of the moment dinner at the Kent farm, no fireside chats, no sunny picnic, no DP car save, no Vessel kiss. Without Chloe knowing Clark's secret, she can't know anything about countless everyday events of her life.

She can't know herself


i know, what the hell are the writers doing?

[Hopefulsuicide]

Clark did not take away Chloe's free will. She is free to do what she wants. He didn't make her a slave of his.

He surely did not take away the right to make decisions for herself. My first point in this post says that.

Clark cannot control her future by taking away a "certain" part of her past. He freed her of an obligation that would have been a problem for her in her future.

What Clark did was not immoral.

oh i see, so chloe was free to keep her memories was she?

chloe was given the opportunity to decide for herself was she?

i think your mistaking me. in that moment where he decided to take her memories, she had no choice, and therefore he was controlling the situation FOR her... and i find that immoral

it should have been her choice, i dont care what planet he is from or who he is, he doesnt have the right to make it for her

it's totally and completely the most immoral thing ive ever seen him do

[Jade4813]

I wish there were a fourth option on the poll. :\

In all honesty, I'm not vehemently opposed to Chloe losing her memory of Clark's secret per se. I'm not in love with the idea, but I'm not rejecting it out of hand. I'm more curious to know why they did it and why they felt like it was necessary. I'm also aware of the numerous plot holes it brings.

But, hey, I want to be told a good story, and I'm going to assume that they had a reason for what they did. Unless that theory proves to be fallacious, I'm not going to reject the plot point of Chloe losing her memories of Clark's secret out of hand.

That said, I don't like the way they did it at all.

If this is what they had in mind, I'd have much rather had the episode go down a different way. Perahps in some way, have it that Chloe's knowledge of Clark's secret WAS putting her life in immediate danger. She was going to die with that knowledge. Clark and Chloe talk about it in an emotional scene, and Chloe declares that she doesn't want to forget Clark. Clark declares that he doesn't want her to lose her memories either, but it's either a loss of her memories or a loss of her life. And as much as he doesn't want her to forget him, even a little, he doesn't want her to die even more.

And then perhaps some sort of moment where he swears that as soon as the threat to her life is taken care of, he'll stop at nothing to get her memories back to her. Hell, maybe instead of keeping those memories out, they give them back to her locked away somewhere. So that, at the right time, they could be unlocked and returned to her.

Hell, at this point, even if the wipe was permanent, I could deal with that if it had been Chloe's choice.

Anyway, if it were something like the Doctor did to himself (in "Family of Blood" and...the other half of that story...) I'd have been fine with it. If it IS permanent, I could have been fine with it too - provided that it was a) for a reason and b) Chloe's choice.

What sits wrong with me in terms of what they did to Chloe wasn't what they did but rather how they did it. It should never have been entirely Clark's choice.

[cousteau]

I wish there were a fourth option on the poll. :\

In all honesty, I'm not vehemently opposed to Chloe losing her memory of Clark's secret per se. I'm not in love with the idea, but I'm not rejecting it out of hand. I'm more curious to know why they did it and why they felt like it was necessary. I'm also aware of the numerous plot holes it brings.

But, hey, I want to be told a good story, and I'm going to assume that they had a reason for what they did. Unless that theory proves to be fallacious, I'm not going to reject the plot point of Chloe losing her memories of Clark's secret out of hand.

That said, I don't like the way they did it at all.

If this is what they had in mind, I'd have much rather had the episode go down a different way. Perahps in some way, have it that Chloe's knowledge of Clark's secret WAS putting her life in immediate danger. She was going to die with that knowledge. Clark and Chloe talk about it in an emotional scene, and Chloe declares that she doesn't want to forget Clark. Clark declares that he doesn't want her to lose her memories either, but it's either a loss of her memories or a loss of her life. And as much as he doesn't want her to forget him, even a little, he doesn't want her to die even more.

And then perhaps some sort of moment where he swears that as soon as the threat to her life is taken care of, he'll stop at nothing to get her memories back to her. Hell, maybe instead of keeping those memories out, they give them back to her locked away somewhere. So that, at the right time, they could be unlocked and returned to her.

Hell, at this point, even if the wipe was permanent, I could deal with that if it had been Chloe's choice.

Anyway, if it were something like the Doctor did to himself (in "Family of Blood" and...the other half of that story...) I'd have been fine with it. If it IS permanent, I could have been fine with it too - provided that it was a) for a reason and b) Chloe's choice.

What sits wrong with me in terms of what they did to Chloe wasn't what they did but rather how they did it. It should never have been entirely Clark's choice.

*sigh* a voice of reason. I love you, marry me this very moment.

[Jade4813]

*sigh* a voice of reason. I love you, marry me this very moment.

:lol: You do know how to turn a gal's head! ;)

[cousteau]

The thing is, I'm ok with people being against what happened with chloe, but the answers I've seen so far are basically run of the mill arguments. There's no justification, just chloe fanboyism. it irritates me, and I love it when someone makes a critique from a plot POV.

[ywm]

chloe cured, fos infected.. yea. what a decision.. go DD!! clark should pay for that

[Hopefulsuicide]

I wish there were a fourth option on the poll. :\

In all honesty, I'm not vehemently opposed to Chloe losing her memory of Clark's secret per se. I'm not in love with the idea, but I'm not rejecting it out of hand. I'm more curious to know why they did it and why they felt like it was necessary. I'm also aware of the numerous plot holes it brings.

But, hey, I want to be told a good story, and I'm going to assume that they had a reason for what they did. Unless that theory proves to be fallacious, I'm not going to reject the plot point of Chloe losing her memories of Clark's secret out of hand.

That said, I don't like the way they did it at all.

If this is what they had in mind, I'd have much rather had the episode go down a different way. Perahps in some way, have it that Chloe's knowledge of Clark's secret WAS putting her life in immediate danger. She was going to die with that knowledge. Clark and Chloe talk about it in an emotional scene, and Chloe declares that she doesn't want to forget Clark. Clark declares that he doesn't want her to lose her memories either, but it's either a loss of her memories or a loss of her life. And as much as he doesn't want her to forget him, even a little, he doesn't want her to die even more.

And then perhaps some sort of moment where he swears that as soon as the threat to her life is taken care of, he'll stop at nothing to get her memories back to her. Hell, maybe instead of keeping those memories out, they give them back to her locked away somewhere. So that, at the right time, they could be unlocked and returned to her.

Hell, at this point, even if the wipe was permanent, I could deal with that if it had been Chloe's choice.

Anyway, if it were something like the Doctor did to himself (in "Family of Blood" and...the other half of that story...) I'd have been fine with it. If it IS permanent, I could have been fine with it too - provided that it was a) for a reason and b) Chloe's choice.

What sits wrong with me in terms of what they did to Chloe wasn't what they did but rather how they did it. It should never have been entirely Clark's choice.

that's exactly what i'm trying to say. the big problem isn't that Chloe has lost her memories. i'm not a Chloe fangirl moaning because her favourite character has been made less important. i'm a superman fan who isnt happy with the way he treated his best friend

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


The thing is, I'm ok with people being against what happened with chloe, but the answers I've seen so far are basically run of the mill arguments. There's no justification, just chloe fanboyism. it irritates me, and I love it when someone makes a critique from a plot POV.

yeah i think if all i was seeing was 'not fair, chloe rocks, clark sucks' then i'd share your irritation

i'm not sure if it's because i didnt get to see the episode till yesterday and missed the initial points made, but all i have seen is very coherent passionate dislike of the way things went down

[davidbrenton]

ah, your a Chloe hater, no wonder you liked this episode

but anyway, that's ridiculous... she won't remember why and that should be something that she won't even be able to live with, we are talking about MURDER! it's not something she is going to go 'meh, can't remember but nevermind'

It would be funny if the only the she could remember was murdering that dude.

[devilneedsaride]

As Kalista pointed out, Clark flat-out mindraped her. He had absolutely no right to violate her in that way. He took away years of her life. He showed a shocking amount of disrespect for his "best friend's" ability to make her own decisions. He showed that he believes he gets to decide people's lives for them, even when it violates their rights and their very minds. And that, my friends, is one scary ****ing so-called super-hero.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm absolutely disgusted with Clark this episode (and a few previous ones). Who are we but the experiences we have and the choices we make? Clark took both of those away from Chloe, and that is far worse than anything he could be "protecting" her from. I hope she gets her memories back and feeds him some kryptonite pancakes. :mad:

[RedKRules]

I hate it !! it was another lack of creativity ..... I mean all they did was copy it from superman 2 ..... how lame!

[davidbrenton]

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm absolutely disgusted with Clark this episode (and a few previous ones). Who are we but the experiences we have and the choices we make? Clark took both of those away from Chloe, and that is far worse than anything he could be "protecting" her from. I hope she gets her memories back and feeds him some kryptonite pancakes. :mad:

The writers may absolutely be aware of this, and using this to give Clark some growth and further recognition of the "consequences of his actions."

Earlier in the episode, Chloe DIRECTLY tells Clark, she would not trade knowing about him for the world. She then, shortly after, tells him she was afraid to tell him because he knew he'd fly off the handle and make decisions WITHOUT THINKING OF THE CONSEQUENCES.

This may very well be foreshadowing on how this whole thing plays out. Perhaps, if he did leave Chloe with her memories of him, she WOULD HAVE BEEN STRONG ENOUGH TO DEFEAT BRANIAC's influence. Because she will be without the last four years, the LEGION has to come and FIX IT.

THUS, Legion helps restore Chloe's memories.

[Cyn]

Excellent point... What you people who voted 'no' don't realize is that this was not an "I'm playing god, I know what's best, selfish decision" that Clark made. (Mind rape? Really? Give me a break, guys.) He loves Chloe, and loves having someone to talk to about the "real" him. This was a compassionate, selfless decision that did not help him in ANY way and further isolates him from the people he cares about. He saw the toll that keeping his secret was having on Chloe's life and did what he did FOR HER BENEFIT even though it made him lose something he could never get back. Yes, it was sad, and when it happened, I was like... WHAT!? NO WAY!! But after I looked back on it I realized that this was an awesome plot line to throw in. Besides, she still remembers that Clark is her best friend, and that's what really matters. And by the way, I don't know how not remembering Brainiac, Krypton, etc. puts her more danger. It's not like if she was aware that Brainiac was coming after her she could do anything about it anyways. Clark still has her back... Get with program, guys.

I was pissed when Superman did this in SM:II and I wasn't thrilled when Clark did it on Smallville. It makes me want to yell "BDA". However, I am not sure if this was a good decision or a bad decision. As for Smallville, it ends ChloeIAC/ChloeSUE and that IS a good thing. Clark has to think for himself now. I can't wait to see what happens next. ;)

[liana]

The main problem, in this episode, is not the fact that Chloe lost her memories of Clark's secret, but the fact that Clark was the one responsible for it. In my opinion, Chloe lost a lot, as a character, when she became Clark's secret keeper. She started to live through him, and that is the worst thing that could happen to someone. So, I can see why the writers would want to correct that mistake on a season where Allison Mack is the leading lady.

However, even though I can see the necessity to correct that, I can't agree with the way it was done. They could have done it in a lot of different ways: for example, they could have make it Jor-el's decision, instead of Clark's. They could have made that this memories were beyond Jor-el's powers to repair. They could have made it an accident. Instead, they decided to, once again, damage Clark as a character in order to make us sympathize with 'his victim'.

It has been done repeatedly over those 7 seasons. They constantly wrote Clark in a way to make us feel sorry for poor Lex, or sorry for poor Lana, and now sorry for poor Chloe. Everything has to be always Clark's fault. So, here is a superman fan that don't like what they have done it at all. It is not about Chloe, because as I said, I can understand why it is better for the story that she doesn't know. It is about Clark. It is the same thing they did, when they made him go after Lana when she was about to marry another man, or almost kiss her in her bedroom, with her husband standing just outside, or have him almost kill Lionel because he was responsible for Lana marrying Lex. Once again, let's damage Clark as a character, so that another character can look good. :mad:

[Kalista]

The writers may absolutely be aware of this, and using this to give Clark some growth and further recognition of the "consequences of his actions."

Earlier in the episode, Chloe DIRECTLY tells Clark, she would not trade knowing about him for the world. She then, shortly after, tells him she was afraid to tell him because he knew he'd fly off the handle and make decisions WITHOUT THINKING OF THE CONSEQUENCES.

This may very well be foreshadowing on how this whole thing plays out. Perhaps, if he did leave Chloe with her memories of him, she WOULD HAVE BEEN STRONG ENOUGH TO DEFEAT BRANIAC's influence. Because she will be without the last four years, the LEGION has to come and FIX IT.

THUS, Legion helps restore Chloe's memories.

Great post and I agree. In the preview for Bride, Clark can't follow up on the lead about Lex because Chloe wouldn't understand why he would need to leave her wedding without the knowledge of his secret.

But the more I think about this, the more it bothers me because the writers have Clark indirectly responsible for another catastrophe. I think the disasters in Reckoning, Vessel, and Solitude were sufficient.:\

[Slimgoodi17]

OF COURSE I don't like it! But I realize it's necessary, though I'm still praying for some kind of loophole. Though the only one apparent is letting Chloe remember or whatever, but eventually having to kill her. Eeeek! No thanks.

What I don't understand is...Chloe still has her power(healing), right? So is she going to have to deal with it on her own? Will she tell Clark? Does she already think Clark knows? What part will it play?

[Fat Elvis 007]

he took away her free will... he took away her right to make decisions for herself... he controlled her future by erasing a part of her past

that is immoral

Exactly. It all comes down to this, and there is simply nothing that makes what he did forgivable.

[RedKRules]

Great post and I agree. In the preview for Bride, Clark can't follow up on the lead about Lex because Chloe wouldn't understand why he would need to leave her wedding without the knowledge of his secret.

But the more I think about this, the more it bothers me because the writers have Clark indirectly responsible for another catastrophe. I think the disasters in Reckoning, Vessel, and Solitude were sufficient.:\

They just love to see how Clark makes the same mistakes all over again ..... and the worse is that he never learns from them !!!

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----


chloe cured, fos infected.. yea. what a decision.. go DD!! clark should pay for that

I will be there to laugh!!

[Stu.Kent]

i might be alone in this but i highly doubt chloe will be getting her memories back...ever. why take such a bold step toward clark's destiny just to quickly undo it?? maybe if the show was about chloe but it isn't. although i may be proven wrong but im gonna say what's done is done, for better or for worse 'old chloe' is g-o-n-e, GONE. Jor-El won't be giving her back her memories and even if john jones could i don't see why he would, i know this is smallville and pretty anything can and does happen but i just don't see chloe somehow regaining those memories.
Also i should make it clear that i am in no way 'anti-chloe', in fact i used to love chloe im just trying to think with my head instead of just thinking about what I want to happen.

[Fat Elvis 007]

Clark did not take away Chloe's free will. She is free to do what she wants. He didn't make her a slave of his.
Clark cannot control her future by taking away a "certain" part of her past. He freed her of an obligation that would have been a problem for her in her future.

Clark certainly took away her free will and her decision making ability. She isn't "free to do what she wants," he took that away when he took away her decision as to whether or not to keep her memories.


What Clark did was not immoral.

In that case, you won't mind if I come over and take away some of your memories? I won't tell you which ones, and you'll have no knowledge that anything is amiss afterward. Don't worry, I would only do it for your own good, and I get to decide what that is, not you. That would be perfectly acceptable?

Well, it at least wouldn't be as bad as what Clark did, since I had the courtesy to ask you first.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


I wish there were a fourth option on the poll. :\

In all honesty, I'm not vehemently opposed to Chloe losing her memory of Clark's secret per se. I'm not in love with the idea, but I'm not rejecting it out of hand. I'm more curious to know why they did it and why they felt like it was necessary. I'm also aware of the numerous plot holes it brings.

But, hey, I want to be told a good story, and I'm going to assume that they had a reason for what they did. Unless that theory proves to be fallacious, I'm not going to reject the plot point of Chloe losing her memories of Clark's secret out of hand.

That said, I don't like the way they did it at all.

If this is what they had in mind, I'd have much rather had the episode go down a different way. Perahps in some way, have it that Chloe's knowledge of Clark's secret WAS putting her life in immediate danger. She was going to die with that knowledge. Clark and Chloe talk about it in an emotional scene, and Chloe declares that she doesn't want to forget Clark. Clark declares that he doesn't want her to lose her memories either, but it's either a loss of her memories or a loss of her life. And as much as he doesn't want her to forget him, even a little, he doesn't want her to die even more.

And then perhaps some sort of moment where he swears that as soon as the threat to her life is taken care of, he'll stop at nothing to get her memories back to her. Hell, maybe instead of keeping those memories out, they give them back to her locked away somewhere. So that, at the right time, they could be unlocked and returned to her.

Hell, at this point, even if the wipe was permanent, I could deal with that if it had been Chloe's choice.

Anyway, if it were something like the Doctor did to himself (in "Family of Blood" and...the other half of that story...) I'd have been fine with it. If it IS permanent, I could have been fine with it too - provided that it was a) for a reason and b) Chloe's choice.

What sits wrong with me in terms of what they did to Chloe wasn't what they did but rather how they did it. It should never have been entirely Clark's choice.

Jade, I've been meaning to ask you what you thought about this and I figured this is what you would say. I am glad you agree with me on this. :)

----- Added 9 Minutes later -----


The writers may absolutely be aware of this, and using this to give Clark some growth and further recognition of the "consequences of his actions."

Earlier in the episode, Chloe DIRECTLY tells Clark, she would not trade knowing about him for the world. She then, shortly after, tells him she was afraid to tell him because he knew he'd fly off the handle and make decisions WITHOUT THINKING OF THE CONSEQUENCES.

This may very well be foreshadowing on how this whole thing plays out. Perhaps, if he did leave Chloe with her memories of him, she WOULD HAVE BEEN STRONG ENOUGH TO DEFEAT BRANIAC's influence. Because she will be without the last four years, the LEGION has to come and FIX IT.

THUS, Legion helps restore Chloe's memories.

*sigh* If this were any other show, I would believe this. Let's hope the writers actually do something different and show consequences this time.

[Kalista]

I will be there to laugh!!

I don't think I could bring myself to laugh. If this does resemble Solitude or Reckoning in any way when it is resolved I will be disappointed. In S8, the writers shouldn't have him making these kind of mistakes.

[Mr.White]

[QUOTE=Fat Elvis 007;4165241]Clark certainly took away her free will and her decision making ability. She isn't "free to do what she wants," he took that away when he took away her decision as to whether or not to keep her memories.

She has all of her memories of her life ,except for the part concernng her knowledge of Clark's secret and what that knowledge has done to other people. He did this for her well being. He didn't want to leave her to leave running away like Pete or wind up dead like Lionel just to protect his secret.


In that case, you won't mind if I come over and take away some of your memories? I won't tell you which ones, and you'll have no knowledge that anything is amiss afterward. Don't worry, I would only do it for your own good, and I get to decide what that is, not you. That would be perfectly acceptable?

Clark did this to spare Chloe any more agony. He could have just live and let live and have Chloe continue on steadfast with the burden with carrying his secret with her and not feel a thing about it. That would be heartless.


Well, it at least wouldn't be as bad as what Clark did, since I had the courtesy to ask you first.

I am very grateful for your thoughtfulness in this regard believe me (smiles).

[Fat Elvis 007]

[QUOTE=Fat Elvis 007;4165241]

She has all of her memories of her life ,except for the part concernng her knowledge of Clark's secret and what that knowledge has done to other people. [quote]

Oh, I see, so she has all of her memories except for most of the important events of her life. Got it.
[QUOTE]
He did this for her well being. He didn't want to leave her to leave running away like Pete or wind up dead like Lionel just to protect his secret.

And again, I don't care. Mindrape is mindrape no matter what the intentions.


Clark did this to spare Chloe any more agony. He could have just live and let live and have Chloe continue on steadfast with the burden with carrying his secret with her and not feel a thing about it. That would be heartless.

Heartless? How so? He would have been doing what Chloe wanted. She specifically told him earlier in that episode that she was happy for making a difference in the world, helping save it, and that she wouldn't trade it for anything. Taking that away from her is a heartless action.

Clark showed arrogance in thinking that Chloe would be better off leading a normal life. Being normal has always been Clark's desire, but it's never been Chloe's. She has always wanted to be special, to make a difference. Clark has now taken away her memories of doing so. It would be completely out of character for Chloe to be content with her life as it is now. But Clark, as always, thought he knew better, and acted based on what he would want in Chloe's case, not what she actually wanted.

Clark went completely against the wishes Chloe told him earlier in the episode. She was mortified at the prospect of losing her memories. Clark acted out Chloe's worst fear by choosing not to give Chloe all of her memories back.

[Just Another Guy]

Yes! Let your voices be heard! Don't take this sitting down! Don't accept such slander from the producers! Shout it from the rooftops! We'll not let Chloe be done such a disservice!

Yes, I'm overdramatic...

[Hopefulsuicide]

at this point, i'm close to using Buffy episodes to illustrate my point. i.e. Willow taking Tara's memories, Willow taking Buffy's memories, Angel taking all his friends memories of Connor

but they all found out, and there were consequences. even in Angel, in which the danger was completely immediate and as his father, and considering Conner was far more screwed up than Chloe would ever have been, it was slightly more grey, they were angry. Wesley was so angry because he had change Fred before she died.

if they just hope we accept this, if they don't give us some consequences, then Smallville is simply not a good TV show. and it is certainly not a good interpretation of Superman

you know what i now realise i loved about LnC. that Jor-el was never an all powerful being. there was no fortress, there were just messages from the past. he had no control over Clark's life, just the ability to tell him what happened. that's it! the only thing Clark needed in order for him to make him Superman was two facts 1. he couldn't stop himself from saving people 2. he couldn't keep doing it as someone recognisable.

LnC's Clark Kent would NEVER control someone like Smallville's Clark just controlled Chloe. and if he ever tried to do what Smallville's Clark just did to chloe, to LnC's Lois, there is no way she would stand for it

she didn't even let him get away with dumping her for her own good, let alone stealing her memories

god it will always be the superior show, even if it has more cheese

[Fat Elvis 007]

at this point, i'm close to using Buffy episodes to illustrate my point. i.e. Willow taking Tara's memories, Willow taking Buffy's memories, Angel taking all his friends memories of Connor

but they all found out, and there were consequences. even in Angel, in which the danger was completely immediate and as his father, and considering Conner was far more screwed up than Chloe would ever have been, it was slightly more grey, they were angry. Wesley was so angry because he had change Fred before she died.

if they just hope we accept this, if they don't give us some consequences, then Smallville is simply not a good TV show. and it is certainly not a good interpretation of Superman

you know what i now realise i loved about LnC. that Jor-el was never an all powerful being. there was no fortress, there were just messages from the past. he had no control over Clark's life, just the ability to tell him what happened. that's it! the only thing Clark needed in order for him to make him Superman was two facts 1. he couldn't stop himself from saving people 2. he couldn't keep doing it as someone recognisable.

LnC's Clark Kent would NEVER control someone like Smallville's Clark just controlled Chloe. and if he ever tried to do what Smallville's Clark just did to chloe, to LnC's Lois, there is no way she would stand for it

she didn't even let him get away with dumping her for her own good, let alone stealing her memories

god it will always be the superior show, even if it has more cheese

I wish to make love to this post. :p

[Hopefulsuicide]

:lol: i'm blushing... but i guess it is orgasmicly good :P

[unfocused]

Lois & Clark isn't superior to Smallville. Especially not after this season :)

God I'm glad Chloe was mindraped. And I'm a Chloe fan! She shouldn't have known his secret in the first place, this is why he never told her. It was yet another AlMiles mistake that PS3 undid right away. Go PS3! I will admit, I hope they continue this arc and she finds out again, because I think it will make for another great story, but I don't know if that will happen. But even if it doesn't, I'm still very happy.

The funny thing is that all these Chlarkers are angry over something that's already been done, yet you cheer and make sexual innuendo with eachother when you make a point. As if you've won something, :lol:. The sad truth is, well, sad for you, is that Chloe has been reduced to nothing.

I feel the need to throw in an evil MWAHAHAHAHA!

[biggkoz]

Why does anyone have to know clarks secret?????

[Just Another Guy]

Why does anyone have to know clarks secret?????
I think the better question right now is, who says no one can?

[BOUROUX]

If Brainiac is able to erase the memory of Chloe, he is able to restore.

[Alexander III]

Relax, she'll get it back after those two future heroes come help clark save Chloe from brainy

[Becc]

I don't get how people are justifying this as bringing Clark closer to his "destiny". Once again he was really only thinking of himself and his own guilt for Chloe knowing his secret- this does not a superhero make. I think what everyone should do is think about if this would have been the decision the iconic superman would have made- and frankly the answer would be no. To me this has moved Clark further away from his destiny rather than closer to it as it seems the resounding majority believe on this board.

[unfocused]

I think what everyone should do is think about if this would have been the decision the iconic superman would have made- and frankly the answer would be no.

Wrong. The iconic Superman has made the same decision already.

[RedKRules]

I don't think I could bring myself to laugh. If this does resemble Solitude or Reckoning in any way when it is resolved I will be disappointed. In S8, the writers shouldn't have him making these kind of mistakes.

I was kidding :p, ;) ..... it is because the mistake is ICONIC :eek: and we will see more of them believe me

[Sweetie]

Yes,I think it's time for Clark to take the finale step toward his destiny alone...He doesn't need a sidekick anymore.Besides Chloe wouldn't be force to accept a mission that wasn't hers in the first place.

[davidbrenton]

I was kidding :p, ;) ..... it is because the mistake is ICONIC :eek: and we will see more of them believe me

I agree with this poster. Superman is not flawless in his decisions. That is what makes him relatable. When he messes up, there are huge impacts, and that is what makes his character so fun. Over the long term, he makes fewer of them.

I mean come on guys, he was raised by humans, who are all flawed in their way.

[Just Another Guy]

I agree with this poster. Superman is not flawless in his decisions. That is what makes him relatable. When he messes up, there are huge impacts, and that is what makes his character so fun. Over the long term, he makes fewer of them.

I mean come on guys, he was raised by humans, who are all flawed in their way.
Agreed.

[umm]

at this point, i'm close to using Buffy episodes to illustrate my point. i.e. Willow taking Tara's memories, Willow taking Buffy's memories, Angel taking all his friends memories of Connor but they all found out, and there were consequences. even in Angel, in which the danger was completely immediate and as his father, and considering Conner was far more screwed up than Chloe would ever have been, it was slightly more grey, they were angry. Wesley was so angry because he had change Fred before she died.
If they just hope we accept this, if they don't give us some consequences, then Smallville is simply not a good TV show. and it is certainly not a good interpretation of Superman you know what i now realise i loved about LnC. that Jor-el was never an all powerful being. there was no fortress, there were just messages from the past. he had no control over Clark's life, just the ability to tell him what happened. that's it! the only thing Clark needed in order for him to make him Superman was two facts 1. he couldn't stop himself from saving people 2. he couldn't keep doing it as someone recognisable.
LnC's Clark Kent would NEVER control someone like Smallville's Clark just controlled Chloe. and if he ever tried to do what Smallville's Clark just did to chloe, to LnC's Lois, there is no way she would stand for it she didn't even let him get away with dumping her for her own good, let alone stealing her memories god it will always be the superior show, even if it has more cheese

One thing you forgot to mention about Angel, was as good as champion and hero as he was, he was lost without Cordy, his most loyal and trusted friend, seer and sidekick, as proven by the numerous times in seasons 1- 3 whenever he ignored her advice and his many mistakes during Cordy's absence in seasons 4-5!
Does this sound familiar! And by that I mean the stricking similarities between Angel and Cordy and Clark and Chloe, and Clark is a fool if he thinks he did Chloe or himself any favours by erasing her memories of his secret or anything else remotly connected to it, cause while many of us may not have liked the way Clark was dependant of Chloe as of late, no one can denie the fact, that she has pushed his journey towars being a fullgrown hero much further than any other person in his life including himself!!!!

[rogueslayer1985]

this show just keeps on ruining the characters and mis treating their fans frankly i will be glad when the show ends forever

[unfocused]

So am I, but only for the reason that I won't have to hear all this negativity from the Smallville bashers every week.

[Hopefulsuicide]

God I'm glad Chloe was mindraped.

i'm just going to single this out, because i think it's a ridiculous statement. then i'm going to move on to the rest :\


Lois & Clark isn't superior to Smallville. Especially not after this season :) !

well in my opinion LnC is superior to any superman incarnation to ever grace the big or small screen... despite Smallville's attempt this year to kiss the mythos a**e


She shouldn't have known his secret in the first place, this is why he never told her. It was yet another AlMiles mistake that PS3 undid right away. Go PS3! I will admit, I hope they continue this arc and she finds out again, because I think it will make for another great story, but I don't know if that will happen. But even if it doesn't, I'm still very happy.!

see i find it strange that last year you were a smallville defender as well... but it is only now that almiles are gone that you are willing to admit that Smallville has sometimes not been perfect

that said, i think Chloe finding out was good during season 4, but became completely cr*p afterwards. BUT i don't think it had to be that way. i think that if she hadnt been written in such a hero worshipping, 'only there for Clark's help' kind of way, then her progression could have been wonderful

i really do hope they have her find out the truth again, and that his betrayal stops her from seeing him in the rose tinted glasses she has been... then maybe she actually WILL have an impact on the world, all by herself, instead of just helping him and his sorry attempts




The funny thing is that all these Chlarkers are angry over something that's already been done, yet you cheer and make sexual innuendo with eachother when you make a point. As if you've won something, :lol:. The sad truth is, well, sad for you, is that Chloe has been reduced to nothing.

I feel the need to throw in an evil MWAHAHAHAHA!

when are you going to understand that this forum and it's debates CANNOT be won. the rejoice that some posters have together is not that they have 'WON' but that they have made a good point, or that someone is agreeing with them whole heartedly, which is a nice thing to gain from discussion on a forum

i find your constant attempts to degrade opinions that do not mirror your own do the opposite of this, and it is entirely uneccesary. i understand that you do not agree, and that is perfectly okay. in fact it is brilliant, because there would be no debates without disagreement. but don't try and bellittle me please. :)

p.s. it is my firm belief that Chloe will never be reduced to nothing

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


And I'm a Chloe fan!

yeah....

... i don't see it :\

[smallvillereporter27]

I am actually mad that this happened. I liked Chloe so much more when she knew Clark's secret. Yeah, in season's 6&7 she spent too much time of being Clark's go-to girl, but this season everything was getting better. Clark was already on his way to fufilling his destiny, so this mindwipe made no difference.

You know what annoys me the most is that Chloe helped Clark so many times and that he just erased all of that just to protect her--and judging by next week's episode, it doesn't seem to be working. And if Chloe ever finds out, she will be pissed. She said it in the episode, she wouldn't trade her knowing Clark's secret for anything....and Clark just took that away :( While this was an interesting twist, I hope the writers don't cop out and not properly address this. Clark can't just erase her mind and there not be ANY consequences. Sure, he lost a confidant, but there has to be more.

[RedKRules]

Yes there is more to come, Clark´s decision will come around to bite his butt soon .... and I can´t wait to see that !!!

[unfocused]

well in my opinion LnC is superior to any superman incarnation to ever grace the big or small screen... despite Smallville's attempt this year to kiss the mythos a**e
Every incarnation of Superman, big screen or small, follows the mythos. If you consider that "kissing the mythos a**e" then I'm wondering how you actually enjoy Lois & Clark. Which, by the way, is one of the worst Superman incarnations out there. I would throw an "IMO" on there but that wouldn't help you either.


see i find it strange that last year you were a smallville defender as well... but it is only now that almiles are gone that you are willing to admit that Smallville has sometimes not been perfect
You have no clue what you're talking about. I've always defended Smallville from bashers like yourself, and I always will. If you remember last year, then you'd remember me defending Chloe as much as I defend Smallville. But I guess some things are just impossible to explain to such a selective reader. I've said it before, now I have to say it again; Clark was holding Chloe back as much as she was holding him back. Abyss clearly points this out as Clark just matured tenfold in an episode where Jor-El discards her memories, and Chloe just became this person filled with happiness and love, because of it.

So yes, I am a Chloe fan. She is much better without Clark's secret paving the path for her life.


i find your constant attempts to degrade opinions that do not mirror your own do the opposite of this, and it is entirely uneccesary. i understand that you do not agree, and that is perfectly okay. in fact it is brilliant, because there would be no debates without disagreement. but don't try and bellittle me please. :)
Don't ask for mercy, when you try to belittle Smallville every chance you get.

You know what I find strange? You brought up a discussion we had last year. The sides were the same, I was defending Smallville, you were bashing it as usual. You were supposedly angry that Clark didn't progress as a character for years. That was your whole basis for the discussion as to why Smallville wasn't a good show. And now all of that has changed, Clark is basically Superman without the name, fight and tights. But where is the love? Now that Clark is exactly where he's supposed to be as a character (one step from becoming Superman) where are all these bashers now that they have what they want? Oh that's right, they're crying over a mindwipe that was suppose to happen about 4 years ago, throwing their own credibility out the window.

[Fat Elvis 007]

Don't ask for mercy, when you try to belittle Smallville every chance you get.

You know what I find strange? You brought up a discussion we had last year. The sides were the same, I was defending Smallville, you were bashing it as usual. You were supposedly angry that Clark didn't progress as a character for years. That was your whole basis for the discussion as to why Smallville wasn't a good show. And now all of that has changed, Clark is basically Superman without the name, fight and tights. But where is the love? Now that Clark is exactly where he's supposed to be as a character (one step from becoming Superman) where are all these bashers now that they have what they want? Oh that's right, they're crying over a mindwipe that was suppose to happen about 4 years ago, throwing their own credibility out the window.

That's because erasing someone's memory is a violation of basic human rights. That is a violation that our supposed greatest hero on the planet should not be taking. It is SCARY to think that someone could just erase everything you know. That they could invade your mind and mutilate it in any way they want. That they could erase cherished memories with people we love, taking away huge parts of our identity. Whether they are doing it for my benefit or not, it is disgusting and wrong.

Chloe's knowledge of Clark's secret was a HUGE part of her identity. And he has taken that away from her. That is not MY Superman.

How does this damage my credibility?

[unfocused]

No ones telling you the mindwipe was right, which is obviously what you're trying to get at. But I agree with it in the respects that it was a difficult decision that needed to be made, if not considered. The iconic Superman has done it before, if that's not YOUR Superman, I don't know what is.


Chloe's knowledge of Clark's secret was a HUGE part of her identity. And he has taken that away from her.I hope you're not another one of those people that thinks Chloe is worthless now that she doesn't know Clark's secret...

[Just Another Guy]

No ones telling you the mindwipe was right, which is obviously what you're trying to get at. But I agree with it in the respects that it was a difficult decision that needed to be made, if not considered. The iconic Superman has done it before, if that's not YOUR Superman, I don't know what is.

I hope you're not another one of those people that thinks Chloe is worthless now that she doesn't know Clark's secret...
I'm not downing Clark for his decision. But I can disagree with the producers' decision.

And to say that Thomas Jefferson would have been the same person without his own memory of presidency seems a bit stupid, from my point of view.

Sorry...

[Fat Elvis 007]

No ones telling you the mindwipe was right, which is obviously what you're trying to get at. But I agree with it in the respects that it was a difficult decision that needed to be made, if not considered. The iconic Superman has done it before, if that's not YOUR Superman, I don't know what is.

Superman has done terrible things in many incarnations. I don't have to approve of all of them. There is a reason for the website "Superdickery.com." More recent incarnations of Superman have disapproved strongly of mind-wipes, even on villains. I prefer that trait. My Superman does have to make tough choices sometimes, but he would never violate a person's most basic and sacred human rights.


I hope you're not another one of those people that thinks Chloe is worthless now that she doesn't know Clark's secret...

No, I don't think that. That isn't what I said. I said "Chloe's knowledge of Clark's secret was a HUGE part of her identity. And he has taken that away from her." Are you going to dispute that point, or are you going to build strawmen?

[unfocused]

Why would I dispute that? There isn't a single person on these boards that think Clark's secret didn't shape Chloe into what she is now. But you're acting as though Clark's secret is the only thing worth living for Chloe. And it isn't.

Chloe had a great personality and big dreams before she knew Clark's secret. Now, she put her life on hold for him and his secret and the so-called Chloe fans think that is how she should live her life. I don't think Chloe's destiny should be determined by Clark's secret. Especially when she has the potential to be much more than just a sidekick and search engine for all the superheroes.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


And to say that Thomas Jefferson would have been the same person without his own memory of presidency seems a bit stupid, from my point of view.

And to say that Thomas Jefferson couldn't have been an equally great person is insulting.

[Just Another Guy]

Why would I dispute that? There isn't a single person on these boards that think Clark's secret didn't shape Chloe into what she is now. But you're acting as though Clark's secret is the only thing worth living for Chloe. And it isn't.

Chloe had a great personality and big dreams before she knew Clark's secret. Now, she put her life on hold for him and his secret and the so-called Chloe fans think that is how she should live her life. I don't think Chloe's destiny should be determined by Clark's secret. Especially when she has the potential to be much more than just a sidekick and search engine for all the superheroes.
Like the Isis Foundation? I think Chloe and Clark should be able to build their lives on their own, no matter how much of a role they contribute to the other's.


And to say that Thomas Jefferson wouldn't have been an equally great person is insulting.
We're not talking about his integrity. We're talking about the ENORMOUS CHUNK OF IDENTITY he would be lacking by losing such an important part of his life.

I can't understand why this is so hard to grasp.

[unfocused]

Who says it's hard to grasp? I'm simply saying that Chloe would be just fine without Clark. I'm responding to those people that think Chloe NEEDS to know Clark's secret in order to live a good and worthy life. Whether you're one of them, I don't know.

I really have no idea where some people get the idea that Chloe isn't the Chloe we all know without Clark's secret. Of course she is different now. What I'm telling you is that it doesn't make her any less of a person since she now has the opportunity to live without a shadow over her head.

[Just Another Guy]

Who says it's hard to grasp? I'm simply saying that Chloe would be just fine without Clark. I'm responding to those people that think Chloe NEEDS to know Clark's secret in order to live a good and worthy life. Whether you're one of them, I don't know.

I really have no idea where some people get the idea that Chloe isn't the Chloe we all know without Clark's secret. Of course she is different now. What I'm telling you is that it doesn't make her any less of a person since she now has the opportunity to live without a shadow over her head.
Who says she's less of a person? The point is, we shouldn't have to wonder what the "real" Chloe would've said or done under any following circumstances. Because, like it or not, this is pretty much an alternate timeline Chloe. Not the one we've followed for 7 and a half years.

[BOUROUX]

Who says it's hard to grasp? I'm simply saying that Chloe would be just fine without Clark. I'm responding to those people that think Chloe NEEDS to know Clark's secret in order to live a good and worthy life. Whether you're one of them, I don't know.

I really have no idea where some people get the idea that Chloe isn't the Chloe we all know without Clark's secret. Of course she is different now. What I'm telling you is that it doesn't make her any less of a person since she now has the opportunity to live without a shadow over her head.

During the last 4 years their discussions were about Clark abilities. What the next suject of discussion. Temperature, price of milk....
The relation between Clark and Chloe is destroy. No chemistry if you have no memories of their relationship
The chemistry between Clark and Chloe is the heart of Smallville. Clark would share everything with her.
It's clear you don't like Chloe. We are in a TV show not in real life.
Chloe wants to help Clark to save the world and not just to marry and have children with Jimmy.
While Clark has evolved, Chloe has declined.

[unfocused]

Who says she's less of a person?

Oh I don't know. Who says Clark's secret was a HUGE part of who Chloe is and now that it's gone...?

[Just Another Guy]

Oh I don't know. Who says Clark's secret was a HUGE part of who Chloe is and now that it's gone...?
Do you even listen to anything that's been said by anyone else?

[unfocused]

It's clear you don't like Chloe.
What you think and what I know are two completely different things. I want Chloe to live her own life and not depend on Clark to make her life for her. You, on the other hand, claim you are a Chloe fan yet you want her clinging on Clark's coattails every episode googling and hacking for him, impeding his progression into Superman with this co-dependent angle you seem to be worshiping.


We are in a TV show not in real life.
Chloe wants to help Clark to save the world and not just to marry and have children with Jimmy.

Chloe "helping" Clark is not her decision, it is his. If he wants to knock her off his coattails, he has the right to.


While Clark has evolved, Chloe has declined.

And the problem is...?

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----


Do you even listen to anything that's been said by anyone else?

What's that suppose to mean? I can either take that one of two ways. You either have nothing else to say, or you haven't read any of the posts I've been reading for the past 4 days.

I'll let you decide which way to take your comment.

[Just Another Guy]

What you think and what I know are two completely different things. I want Chloe to live her own life and not depend on Clark to make her life for her. You, on the other hand, claim you are a Chloe fan yet you want her clinging on Clark's coattails every episode googling and hacking for him, impeding his progression into Superman with this co-dependent angle you seem to be worshiping.



Chloe "helping" Clark is not her decision, it is his. If he wants to knock her off his coattails, he has the right to.



And the problem is...?

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----



What's that suppose to mean? I can either take that one of two ways. You either have nothing else to say, or you haven't read any of the posts I've been reading for the past 4 days.

I'll let you decide which way to take your comment.
Why should we keep repeating ourselves? It's been stated very plainly why Chloe is no longer the same person, and you're still acting as though we're at the beginning of this discussion.

[unfocused]

"Repeating ourselves?" At this point, I'm just confused at what you're saying :lol: I think we all agree why Chloe isn't the same person, actually I'm pretty sure EVERYONE agrees. But I firmly believe Chloe has what it takes to be just as great, if not greater, than what she would have been beside Clark. She definitely has the potential to.

But, as I've said before, I believe she will regain the knowledge of Clark's secret (I haven't read or heard any spoilers, so I can't be certain).

[Just Another Guy]

"Repeating ourselves?" At this point, I'm just confused at what you're saying :lol: I think we all agree why Chloe isn't the same person, actually I'm pretty sure EVERYONE agrees. But I firmly believe Chloe has what it takes to be just as great, if not greater, than what she would have been beside Clark. She definitely has the potential to.

But, as I've said before, I believe she will regain the knowledge of Clark's secret (I haven't read or heard any spoilers, so I can't be certain).
Yes, we all know what a wonderful young woman Chloe is. That's how she got to this point. I'd just like to keep going in a straight line instead of hacking off 50% of the last 4 years of development.

I hope you are right about her regaining her memories. If not, I will be very disappointed in the show's direction for Chloe.

[Becc]

Yes, we all know what a wonderful young woman Chloe is. That's how she got to this point. I'd just like to keep going in a straight line instead of hacking off 50% of the last 4 years of development.

I hope you are right about her regaining her memories. If not, I will be very disappointed in the show's direction for Chloe.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Tatiana]

During the last 4 years their discussions were about Clark abilities. What the next suject of discussion. Temperature, price of milk....
The relation between Clark and Chloe is destroy. No chemistry if you have no memories of their relationship
The chemistry between Clark and Chloe is the heart of Smallville. Clark would share everything with her.
It's clear you don't like Chloe. We are in a TV show not in real life.
Chloe wants to help Clark to save the world and not just to marry and have children with Jimmy.
While Clark has evolved, Chloe has declined.


I have to disagree with this, Chloe and CLark still had a wonderful relationship before she knew his secret, to say that they only talked about Milk? lol before that it's kinda silly in my opinion. They are still great friends, and as you said they only talked about HIS abilities, what about her? it seems a bit selfish, so many people said he always acted very selfish around her never asking her how she was, etc...now that he has done something caring and selfless for her, they complain. I disagree that she has declined as well, she still has the investigative mind and maybe she does remember her powers, etc and the ideals she had about meteor freaks before. Maybe she will go back to being a reporter. By the way, what's so wrong about being a wife and having children? she can still make a difference in the world that way...

[Marissa]

I don't like it.. At all.

[Fat Elvis 007]

Why would I dispute that? There isn't a single person on these boards that think Clark's secret didn't shape Chloe into what she is now. But you're acting as though Clark's secret is the only thing worth living for Chloe. And it isn't.

Chloe had a great personality and big dreams before she knew Clark's secret. Now, she put her life on hold for him and his secret and the so-called Chloe fans think that is how she should live her life. I don't think Chloe's destiny should be determined by Clark's secret. Especially when she has the potential to be much more than just a sidekick and search engine for all the superheroes.


OK, I see what you're saying now. However, I'm not saying that this is the only thing Chloe had going for her or that she isn't capable of more. But she should be able to choose which path she wants to take in life. She should at least be allowed to keep her memories of doing something that made her proud. What if I stole your memories of accomplishments you were proud of, or friends you had made? You wouldn't be rendered "worthless," but a huge part of what makes you you would be gone. That would be immoral and completely wrong.




And to say that Thomas Jefferson couldn't have been an equally great person is insulting.

No one's saying someone can't still be great after a memory wipe. But it's still a huge violation of who they are, and no one should get to make a choice like that for somebody else.

[thehenry89]

I don't care if chloe know's or not. It hasn't been an essential part of my enjoyment of the show, and it's only going to make clark do his own reaserch for once. Besides I doubt if she'll forget forever.

[RedKRules]

I totally agree with you Fat Elvis .... Clark made that decision for Chloe, which was immoral in all ways .. even for Clark Kent .....

[Hopefulsuicide]

Every incarnation of Superman, big screen or small, follows the mythos. If you consider that "kissing the mythos a**e" then I'm wondering how you actually enjoy Lois & Clark. Which, by the way, is one of the worst Superman incarnations out there. I would throw an "IMO" on there but that wouldn't help you either.
.

Lois and Clark was a show in which Superman/Clark Kent was a hugely better human being and role model that Smallville will ever be. The love story between Lois and Clark is what i consider to be the best love story ever told, and that is only true within that TV series for me.

Lois and Clark stayed within the mythos. Smallville strayed outside the mythos. Now season 8 of Smallville has come around, PS3 has taken over, and all of a sudden they are trying to throw in as much mythos as possible in order to 'save' the show... that is what i mean by kissing the mythos a**e



You have no clue what you're talking about. I've always defended Smallville from bashers like yourself, and I always will. If you remember last year, then you'd remember me defending Chloe as much as I defend Smallville. But I guess some things are just impossible to explain to such a selective reader. I've said it before, now I have to say it again; Clark was holding Chloe back as much as she was holding him back. Abyss clearly points this out as Clark just matured tenfold in an episode where Jor-El discards her memories, and Chloe just became this person filled with happiness and love, because of it.

So yes, I am a Chloe fan. She is much better without Clark's secret paving the path for her life.

.

i'm sorry, but i feel very very strongly about what was done to Chloe. i find it horrendous as a human being, let alone a fan of the character.

no one should be forced to think or feel anything. no one should have their mind messed with no matter how good the outcome

and when she finds out, if she is not devestated, then the show will become entirely unrealistic to me .[/QUOTE]




Don't ask for mercy, when you try to belittle Smallville every chance you get.

You know what I find strange? You brought up a discussion we had last year. The sides were the same, I was defending Smallville, you were bashing it as usual. You were supposedly angry that Clark didn't progress as a character for years. That was your whole basis for the discussion as to why Smallville wasn't a good show. And now all of that has changed, Clark is basically Superman without the name, fight and tights. But where is the love? Now that Clark is exactly where he's supposed to be as a character (one step from becoming Superman) where are all these bashers now that they have what they want? Oh that's right, they're crying over a mindwipe that was suppose to happen about 4 years ago, throwing their own credibility out the window.

first of all, i am not asking for mercy. what i said was a polite and respectful way of asking you to stop being so rude. there are parts of discussions with you that i thouroughly enjoy as you seem just as passionate. but everytime you add in a little sarky comment, or make a rude remark i loose a little respect

secondly, what you just said is absolutely what i keep saying.

you argued that i shouldn't be complaining that it wasn't enough like Superman, and now that YOU think it is, you are waving it up like it's a trophy.

I don't think he is close to being Superman. Episodes like Prey and Abyss have actually made me dislike him as a character at all.

The people who are satisfied with Clark's changes this year i am happy for. But there are those of us who weren't looking for the fastest road to Superman, but instead the best road. the most developed and understandable road.

it is only an opinion that he is exactly where he is supposed to be. i think he's in completely the wrong place...

i really don't see how anyone's credibility is in question here. since we are discussing opinions, no ONE opinion can be more credible than another...

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----


That's because erasing someone's memory is a violation of basic human rights. That is a violation that our supposed greatest hero on the planet should not be taking. It is SCARY to think that someone could just erase everything you know. That they could invade your mind and mutilate it in any way they want. That they could erase cherished memories with people we love, taking away huge parts of our identity. Whether they are doing it for my benefit or not, it is disgusting and wrong.

Chloe's knowledge of Clark's secret was a HUGE part of her identity. And he has taken that away from her. That is not MY Superman.



very well put. i keep trying to push home the seriousness of what was done, but i think this really does it. IT IS SCARY, and IT IS against human rights


No ones telling you the mindwipe was right, which is obviously what you're trying to get at.

actually i'd have to say a lot of people are saying that the mind wipe IS right... not neccesarily you, but many have been suggesting it

[Clarky123]

maybe people need to see the big picuture instead of all the small details,

[Hopefulsuicide]

yeah, small details like people's free will, people's memories... they don't matter in the grand scheme of things... Superman is going to be a BIG WIN for the world, so of course there are going to be a few casualties in his wake who ended up loosing their rights as human beings in order to further his destiny

:rolleyes:

[Serynarpc]

yeah, small details like people's free will, people's memories... they don't matter in the grand scheme of things... Superman is going to be a BIG WIN for the world, so of course there are going to be a few casualties in his wake who ended up loosing their rights as human beings in order to further his destiny

:rolleyes:

Yeah. Wow, I can't believe we were concerned about peoples memories, the things that build up who they are.

Chloe acted like a hero with knowledge of Clark- protecting him, shocking the plant energy sucker that was holding him hostage with her Tazer, covering for him (with Tess, most recently), saving him from Kryptonite, recognizing his Bizarrio double, forcing him to use the crystal when he was afraid to, risking her life to bring back Kara and Clark- she's been a hero.

Now what is she? Isis babysitter and wife? Whoa, let me sit down, its too much to take in.
Now when Brainiac dumps Kryptonite on Clark's chest, Clark will think 'You know, maybe I made a mistake. Chloe sure saved my bacon.'

[Welling_is_pretty]

No, I don't like what was done with Chloe. I have always figured she was going to die by the end of the series so I don't see the problem with her knowing the truth (Clark himself said it: the people who know his secret either die or are lost to him).

But it was very fitting with Clark and his Messiah Complex. So while I don't like it (I was hte one way back in the early seasons shouting at Clark on my screen to tell the truth to at least Chloe!) I do like that they kept to Clark's character by having him do that.

[gem65]

I had mixed feelings about it, so I couldn't choose on the poll. I understand why Clark did it, and I don't think he mindraped her. He not only saved her from Brainiac (I guess...is she 100% Brainiac free now?), but he did what he has been saying for weeks that he'd like to do...mindwipe anyone who knows his secret. It was not for selfish reasons. It truly was a sacrifice for him. Was it his place to do it? There are arguments. But Superman has powers and technology out of the reach of humans. That will require him to make choices that are bigger and more complicated than humans have the ability to make. As Chloe herself said, "sometimes he may have to play God."

Was it the right choice? I don't know yet. The fact that Jor El didn't argue with him about it was interesting. I'll have to see what happens to decide how I feel about it in the long run. But I do agree with others that it was really, really sad.

I'm with you. I have mixed feelings about it as well. But I do understand why he did it.

On another note: Will Chloe remember anything about Green Arrow a.k.a. Oliver Queen and the rest of the Justice League? I was wondering about that. Because all that Clark asked for was for Chloe not to remember his powers and Krypton.:confused:

[Inked]

This is the first time I was actually mad at Clark for more than 5 minutes. I am still extremely angry at him for mind-bleaching Chloe.

Honestly, how does her brain fill in the blanks like - Lex firing from the Daily Planet not because of incompetence but her over the Veritas key? Or working with Justice?

Clark should feel awfully sorry for doing this at the wedding, he sees now that he took Chloe's help and partnership (scoobying, just spending time together) for granted ever since she became a confidante.

It was also cute that she was so playfully snarky with him immediately - his driving, setting the tables.

But she's not the same Chloe right now and I want her back. As many people have said on this thread, the secret was so connected with her current situation that she had to know everything if she ever wants the Brainiac infection fully out. There's too many players on the opposite side to be happy about getting married - it's just the way Smallville is.

[Just Another Guy]

I'm not as angry with Clark as I am with the producers for taking this approach. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more it aches me to think they would go this route. I spent three and a half seasons waiting for Chloe to find out, and the day that she did transformed the show, in my eyes.

It's just so depressing to think they would murder it like this.

[RedKRules]

I know how you feel ...... it was totally mean and unecessary ... and the worst of all is that her bestfriend was the one that did it .... what a villain!! :/

[Hopefulsuicide]

you know, Clark was right about her putting her trust in the wrong people... Clark has saved her life a great number of times, but when it comes to the basic things that form a trusting relationship he has been severly lacking, especially this season

he does not trust her, and she put her faith in him so many times, believed in him when he didnt even believe in himself and when he definately didnt deserve it

and now, when she needed to trust him the most, when she encountered one of the biggest problems of her life and she needed him to be a friend to her, he treated her as though she were not his equal. as though the decisions she made to this day are not good enough and he had to undo them

the biggest mistake she ever made during the series was telling him she knew the secret. if she had thought for a second that he would eventually erase her memory of it 4 years down the line, i expect she would have pretended she were clueless a lot longer...

[RedKRules]

You know ..... I wonder what will happen if Chloe ever finds out what Clark did to her ...... if they ever wanted to break Chlark friendship/bond apart ...... they just started it on the right foot .....

[dcmarriott]

For the last four years, I've had a sinking feeling that the writers were planning to kill off Chloe. Especially this year, since it seemed that the only way to stop Brainiac would be for Chloe to die. I think it's a good thing that Chloe is no longer infected by Brainiac, even if that means that she loses her memory of Clark's secret.

[RedKRules]

But we all know she is still infected, Clark´s *cough* heroic *cough* act didn´t work and the bloody mess is coming!

[unfocused]

Lois and Clark was a show in which Superman/Clark Kent was a hugely better human being and role model that Smallville will ever be. The love story between Lois and Clark is what i consider to be the best love story ever told, and that is only true within that TV series for me.

Lois and Clark stayed within the mythos. Smallville strayed outside the mythos. Now season 8 of Smallville has come around, PS3 has taken over, and all of a sudden they are trying to throw in as much mythos as possible in order to 'save' the show... that is what i mean by kissing the mythos a**e
Your meaning of "kissing the mythos a**e" doesn't even make sense. It makes more sense that a show "staying within the mythos" such as Lois & Clark is the one kissing the mythos a**e, along with being too cowardly to add to the mythos, and blatantly using the mythos as a crutch to survive.

So there you go, if any show kisses a**e, it's no doubt Lois & Clark. And you should really give the new producers more credit. They are telling a better story this year. They aren't "throwing in as much mythos as possible to save the show," PS3 are simply doing their jobs, telling a better story.



you argued that i shouldn't be complaining that it wasn't enough like Superman, and now that YOU think it is, you are waving it up like it's a trophy.
Now? I've ALWAYS felt SV Clark was enough like Superman. And I have good reason to feel that way. You are on some kind of morality trip thinking Superman was born with the best morals and never made a mistake in his life. Which is wrong, Superman has made, and will make mistakes far greater than any he has on Smallville, but you fail to understand that. In order for him to have the best morals, he'd have to have made bad decisions and see the bad results. Much in the same way that you don't know what happiness is until you've been unhappy, or you don't know what you've lost until it's gone. Every winner, at some point, has been a loser. How can you expect Superman to make the right choices if he doesn't even know what the wrong ones are?


The people who are satisfied with Clark's changes this year i am happy for. But there are those of us who weren't looking for the fastest road to Superman, but instead the best road. the most developed and understandable road.
I understand that. And you have my sympathy. I, on the other hand, think this road is well developed and understandable. And definitely NOT the fastest road :lol:


it is only an opinion that he is exactly where he is supposed to be. i think he's in completely the wrong place...
Explain this "wrong place" to me, please. Because Clark seems to be in all the right places, doing all of the right things, to me. Is this another one of your morality complaints? Or is there genuine reasoning behind your opinion?

[kris10]

sorry ps3 isnt telling a better story the point is they keep telling the same story and if i wanted to watch mythos i would go watch those shows point is been there done that....bc this show doesnt have any mythos....every character on this show is COMPLETELY different than the mythos so i guess this does prove LIGHTSWITCH
ALL of a sudden everything has to line up with the icon/mythos yea ok

[unfocused]

you know, Clark was right about her putting her trust in the wrong people... Clark has saved her life a great number of times, but when it comes to the basic things that form a trusting relationship he has been severly lacking, especially this season
Such is the burden of a true hero. Life above friendship. Like they say, "if you love someone, let them go." I once heard that the meaning of unconditional love is to love someone enough to let them go. This so strongly applies to Clark and his love for Chloe, as pointed out in Clark's apology speech to her. It's ridiculous that some people are twisting his intentions around and making it seem as though Clark mindwiped Chloe for his own good, and not for hers. I agree, it wasn't his decision to make and it was wrong, but it was a tough, and right, decision that a person so headstrong like Chloe would never make. People are intentionally neglecting the fact that Clark saved her MOST important memories, those that involve Jimmy and her love for him. Which, I should add, was a major theme of this episode. Yes, I said it, her love for Jimmy and her relationship with him is more important than her relationship with Clark. And that's the truth.


and now, when she needed to trust him the most, when she encountered one of the biggest problems of her life and she needed him to be a friend to her, he treated her as though she were not his equal. as though the decisions she made to this day are not good enough and he had to undo them
Let's get one thing straight. Chloe is NOT Clark's equal. Not in the aspect of his destiny, and definitely not in the aspect of this show. Secondly, this is yet another example of twisting Clark's intention in order to make him out to be the bad guy. It was made clear, by Clark, Jor-El and the writers, that Clark ordered the mindwipe for Chloe's own safety. Some people like to pretend that Clark did it for other reasons, I don't know, for their own piece of mind I guess, and make those reason into evil ones. THAT is pure conjecture, and was never implied in the episode.


the biggest mistake she ever made during the series was telling him she knew the secret. if she had thought for a second that he would eventually erase her memory of it 4 years down the line, i expect she would have pretended she were clueless a lot longer...
You're trying to make it out to seem as though Clark had it in for Chloe ever since he found out that she knew his secret. That's just plain dumb. It was only when Chloe was almost taken over, it was only when Chloe was almost DEAD, that Clark realized she needed to be mindwiped of his world. So your claims that Clark is a terrible man because he could have, at any time, mindwiped Chloe, is nonsense.

It was a drastic measure, a controversial decision, I give you that. But it was also bold, done in the best intent, and above all else... it was right.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Your meaning of "kissing the mythos a**e" doesn't even make sense. It makes more sense that a show "staying within the mythos" such as Lois & Clark is the one kissing the mythos a**e, along with being too cowardly to add to the mythos, and blatantly using the mythos as a crutch to survive.

So there you go, if any show kisses a**e, it's no doubt Lois & Clark. And you should really give the new producers more credit. They are telling a better story this year. They aren't "throwing in as much mythos as possible to save the show," PS3 are simply doing their jobs, telling a better story.



I think your missing what i'm saying. Lois can Clark never tried to be anything but what it was. Just the story of how Lois and Clark fell in love.

Smallville has been a lot of different things over the years, and has been a lot more experimental. only NOW it is trying to use every little bit of mythos it can get it's hands on. that's why i say it feels like ass kissing. smallville fell into a gutter in season 7 IMO and it feels like it's clambering it's way out by kissing mythos a**e to please fans




Now? I've ALWAYS felt SV Clark was enough like Superman. And I have good reason to feel that way. You are on some kind of morality trip thinking Superman was born with the best morals and never made a mistake in his life. Which is wrong, Superman has made, and will make mistakes far greater than any he has on Smallville, but you fail to understand that. In order for him to have the best morals, he'd have to have made bad decisions and see the bad results. Much in the same way that you don't know what happiness is until you've been unhappy, or you don't know what you've lost until it's gone. Every winner, at some point, has been a loser. How can you expect Superman to make the right choices if he doesn't even know what the wrong ones are?

Of course Superman makes mistakes. But he suffers consequences and he feels incredible guilt for things that go wrong.

So many times on Smallville Clark has made what i consider mistakes and gotten away scott free. Other times he has had to suffer consequences. But there is no consistency for that.

For instance, i believe what he did to Chloe was immoral, and it should come back to kick him in the arse. But the way his father was 'proud' of him for it, it was as though what he did is considered a good thing... which based on what i see as Superman's morals does not seem right.

I don't expect Superman to make the right choices all the time, but somehow he always does in the end. He always figures out the most moral, mature and right way to do something. I don't care if that's realistic or not.

He doesn't need to see the consequences of taking chloe's memories to know it's wrong. It simply is wrong. There are some things that your conscience tells you are wrong. This should have been one of them.



I understand that. And you have my sympathy. I, on the other hand, think this road is well developed and understandable. And definitely NOT the fastest road :lol:


Explain this "wrong place" to me, please. Because Clark seems to be in all the right places, doing all of the right things, to me. Is this another one of your morality complaints? Or is there genuine reasoning behind your opinion?

i don't ever want to simply complain that he is in the wrong place because Lois is there, because he is at the DP in too low a position, because he doesn't have glasses... those things are just twists in the order of how things happen

i think he is in the wrong place mentally

if he were doing exactly what he is doing now, but doing it while wearing the superman suit, i still wouldn't feel like he was Superman

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----





Let's get one thing straight. Chloe is NOT Clark's equal. Not in the aspect of his destiny, and definitely not in the aspect of this show. Secondly, this is yet another example of twisting Clark's intention in order to make him out to be the bad guy. It was made clear, by Clark, Jor-El and the writers, that Clark ordered the mindwipe for Chloe's own safety. Some people like to pretend that Clark did it for other reasons, I don't know, for their own piece of mind I guess, and make those reason into evil ones. THAT is pure conjecture, and was never implied in the episode.
.

Clark shouldn't think he is better than humans. Whether or not he is technically their equal or not. It's not what he is about. He is humble and modest and respectful of humans opinions.

It doesnt matter what his intentions were! i don't care if the mind wipe meant that chloe could win the lottery and live happily ever after. it should have been her choice!





You're trying to make it out to seem as though Clark had it in for Chloe ever since he found out that she knew his secret. That's just plain dumb. It was only when Chloe was almost taken over, it was only when Chloe was almost DEAD, that Clark realized she needed to be mindwiped of his world. So your claims that Clark is a terrible man because he could have, at any time, mindwiped Chloe, is nonsense.

It was a drastic measure, a controversial decision, I give you that. But it was also bold, done in the best intent, and above all else... it was right.

how am i making it out that way? and anyway, her memories not being restored did not save her from any immediate danger... she was loosing her memories, Jor-el fixed it. no one said that her memories of Clark's abilities were causing her any harm but him

[abbaspice1]

sorry ps3 isnt telling a better story the point is they keep telling the same story and if i wanted to watch mythos i would go watch those shows point is been there done that....bc this show doesnt have any mythos....every character on this show is COMPLETELY different than the mythos so i guess this does prove LIGHTSWITCH
ALL of a sudden everything has to line up with the icon/mythos yea ok

Really, and how are they NOT like he mythos characters? And which strand of the mythos are you talking about? The Pre-Crisis? Silver Age? etc?

[unfocused]

only NOW it is trying to use every little bit of mythos it can get it's hands on. that's why i say it feels like ass kissing.
I see. Well, what you "feel" is kissing a**e, I feel is giving the audience what they want. I love the mythos and I am happy we are getting more of them. I wish you would be too. Again, I really don't consider a mytho-induced season is kissing a**e to the mythos. It's actually something that I welcome.


For instance, i believe what he did to Chloe was immoral, and it should come back to kick him in the arse. But the way his father was 'proud' of him for it, it was as though what he did is considered a good thing... which based on what i see as Superman's morals does not seem right.
Good does not always mean right. I think this is the mistake in your opinions. Clark's decision wasn't the most moral, or most trusting, but it was the best decision for Chloe. Chloe, who so adamantly cried to Clark about her memories, completely refused to consider Clark's side in this, how Clark is responsible for her. So, in a way, he had a right to do what he did. And, in a way, Chloe was wrong for not considering that she was his responsibility. Consider Chloe lucky that the tables aren't turned and that she isn't being trashed in the slightest for not being a good friend to Clark.


He doesn't need to see the consequences of taking chloe's memories to know it's wrong. It simply is wrong. There are some things that your conscience tells you are wrong. This should have been one of them.
Maybe you missed the guilt-ridden apology speech Clark gave to Chloe in her catatonic state, reminiscent of the Fever letter. But Clark knew he was letting go of something special. But he was letting go for all the right reasons.


i don't ever want to simply complain that he is in the wrong place because Lois is there, because he is at the DP in too low a position, because he doesn't have glasses... those things are just twists in the order of how things happen

i think he is in the wrong place mentally
That's a laugher, no offense. But you saying this right after the episode that Clark says "Now I know what it truly means to protect people, not just my family and friends" and during a season where he has been pro-active and has realized people need a hero and ESPECIALLY he needs a secret identity... makes me wonder.

[Serynarpc]

That's a laugher, no offense.

How is that not supposed to be taken as offensive? Thats an offensive comment, unfocused. From what I've seen, you're not arguing the merits of the discussion, but trying to take this to a personal level. Sorry, I'm not interested in discussing this with you because you don't seem to be able to discuss things without making it personal and someone being 'wrong'.

So Hopefulsuicide, let us continue the discussion.


Originally Posted by Hopefulsuicide View Post
you know, Clark was right about her putting her trust in the wrong people... Clark has saved her life a great number of times, but when it comes to the basic things that form a trusting relationship he has been severly lacking, especially this season

Interesting suggestion. I was concerned that the Chlavis triangle would be about trust and the lack thereof. However now, I'm concerned because Clark has essentially violated her trust by mind raping her memories- after she stated how much that Clark's trust had impacted her life.

When this comes out- and how can it not, with Chloe about to be targetted by Braiac - Doomsday? - how will Chloe and Clark ever regain the level of trust that they once had?

[Hopefulsuicide]

Good does not always mean right. I think this is the mistake in your opinions. Clark's decision wasn't the most moral, or most trusting, but it was the best decision for Chloe. Chloe, who so adamantly cried to Clark about her memories, completely refused to consider Clark's side in this, how Clark is responsible for her. So, in a way, he had a right to do what he did. And, in a way, Chloe was wrong for not considering that she was his responsibility. Consider Chloe lucky that the tables aren't turned and that she isn't being trashed in the slightest for not being a good friend to Clark..

there is no mistake in my opinions. just thinks you dont agree with.

who decides what's best for Chloe? not even her father tries to exert that much control over her! i keep telling you, it doesn't matter whether her life turns out better because of the decision she made, it won't be HER life because she didn't decide it for herself

as for your comments about Chloe, i think your just getting ridiculous now

yeah, selfish chloe, not thinking of Clark when her memory was dissapearring. only thinking of how much of herself she was loosing and how badly she didnt want to loose the most important thing to her - clark and his secret

Chloe IS NOT Clark's responsibility. She is his friend. I would never ever say that any of my friends were my responsibility no matter how much power i had, how many secrets of mine they were keeping. It is their CHOICE!




Maybe you missed the guilt-ridden apology speech Clark gave to Chloe in her catatonic state, reminiscent of the Fever letter. But Clark knew he was letting go of something special. But he was letting go for all the right reasons.
.

yeah i think i did miss 'guilt ridden'... all i saw was a self assured but well meant apology. he wasn't sorry for what he was doing because he thought he was doing the right thing. that's what i'm saying. he was in no way malicious, but he was immoral and an idiot





That's a laugher, no offense. But you saying this right after the episode that Clark says "Now I know what it truly means to protect people, not just my family and friends" and during a season where he has been pro-active and has realized people need a hero and ESPECIALLY he needs a secret identity... makes me wonder.

to quote lex 'a person isn't who they are today, they are who they have been the entire time you've known them' (or something to that effect)

Clark may be SAYING things like that, but i just don't see it. he is zipping around and night stopping crimes... he is working at the DP, he is being over zelous in his investigations and bending the rules, he is not considering all the facts before rushing out and judging things

he hasnt realised he needs a secret identity... he has been told...

he has been pro active, but we have seen no reason why other than his little 'it's time to get out of the barn' speech in odyssey. but it seems so forced...

he says he has figured out how important it is to protect people, not just family and friends, but he doesnt really understand what that role of protector means

it means you never abuse your power to get humans to do what you want, it means you never mess with the law unless it is absolutely neccesary, it means you treat humans with respect and fairness

he is still learning this, and i hope he does... SOON

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----




Interesting suggestion. I was concerned that the Chlavis triangle would be about trust and the lack thereof. However now, I'm concerned because Clark has essentially violated her trust by mind raping her memories- after she stated how much that Clark's trust had impacted her life.

When this comes out- and how can it not, with Chloe about to be targetted by Braiac - Doomsday? - how will Chloe and Clark ever regain the level of trust that they once had?

i don't think she ever should. i think any storyline that writes her forgiving him i will not be able to swallow, and therefore i think that Smallville has been damaged in a way that can't be fixed...

i know a lot of people will think i'm over reacting, but there are a couple of things that good heroes should just never do

using their power to make decisions for other people without their consent, and then forcing those decisions to become reality... well that's just a line that should never be crossed, no matter the outcome

[unfocused]

I'm concerned because Clark has essentially violated her trust by mind r**ing her memories
The mods have asked members to stop using that phrase, it's disrespectful.


Clark shouldn't think he is better than humans. Whether or not he is technically their equal or not. It's not what he is about. He is humble and modest and respectful of humans opinions.
Classic example of someone twisting words and intentions around. He doesn't think he is "better" than anyone, and it's in my opinion that he is respectful of human's opinions. But he, and us, and everyone that knows his secret, including Chloe Sullivan, KNOW Clark is not equal to any of us. Therefore, his decisions are far greater, in every way, than ours.


It doesnt matter what his intentions were!
Yet you are trying to use his intentions against him? You are saying he is wrong because "he did it for himself." If his intentions didn't matter, then what does his morality have to do with your argument?


her memories not being restored did not save her from any immediate danger... she was loosing her memories, Jor-el fixed it. no one said that her memories of Clark's abilities were causing her any harm but him
Everyone said it. It's been a major issue in every Superman lore EVER. It's one of the identities of the mythos. It's why Superman chooses to keep his secret from others, for their own safety. It's why he uses his dual identities. It's why Superman chooses to not have many human friends. I don't know how I can make this any clearer. But let me try. it's why Clark fought that everyone who knows his secret has either died or was lost. My god IT'S PART OF WHO SUPERMAN IS. Jor-El said it, he told Clark that he warned him about the consequences of knowing his secret. Jonathan died, Lionel died, Lana, Pete and for all we know, Lex, went away because of this secret.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Classic example of someone twisting words and intentions around. He doesn't think he is "better" than anyone, and it's in my opinion that he is respectful of human's opinions. But he, and us, and everyone that knows his secret, including Chloe Sullivan, KNOW Clark is not equal to any of us. Therefore, his decisions are far greater, in every way, than ours. .

well in that case, i'm afraid you are the one who twisted my words. what i origionally said was that he treated her like she wasn't his equal... i never said he WAS her equal. i just suggested that her treating her as not his equal was unsupermanly.

but in this case i'm going to say Chloe is better than Clark when it comes to making decisions IMO. Clark's track history with choices is awful and continues to be. Chloe has got a good level headed brain on her. so i'd say that Clark isn't her equal when it comes to making decisions because she is better than him at it.

he has powers so is physically better than humans, but he has not proven himself to be mentally superior at all



Yet you are trying to use his intentions against him? You are saying he is wrong because "he did it for himself." If his intentions didn't matter, then what does his morality have to do with your argument?.

i am saying that it doesn't matter what he thought would be the outcome (ends justify the means arguement stuff), it is still fundamentally wrong. and i don't believe Superman is the kind of hero who disregards what is fundamentally wrong in order for the greater good. this is not my understanding of the hero.



Everyone said it. It's been a major issue in every Superman lore EVER. It's one of the identities of the mythos. It's why Superman chooses to keep his secret from others, for their own safety. It's why he uses his dual identities. It's why Superman chooses to not have many human friends. I don't know how I can make this any clearer. But let me try. it's why Clark fought that everyone who knows his secret has either died or was lost. My god IT'S PART OF WHO SUPERMAN IS. Jor-El said it, he told Clark that he warned him about the consequences of knowing his secret. Jonathan died, Lionel died, Lana, Pete and for all we know, Lex, went away because of this secret.

see i think your confusing too things 1. people he gets close too 2. people that know his secret

it is definately true in all superman mythos that people Superman is seen to be close too are in constant danger. that's why Lois Lane is always being kidnapped.

but she wouldnt be in MORE danger if she knew who he really was. she is in the same amount of danger as his clueless friend as she is as his friend with the knowledge of his secret

it is the same with chloe now

smallville has tried to make it seem like there is death attached to knowing Clark's secret but i don't know why it is doing this... the two things are NOT inextricably linked at all

yes Jonathan and argueably Lionel died protecting Clark's secret, it was their choice to risk their lives to protect his identity.

but as you can see from Lana's reason for leaving, it is not knowing the secret that put her in danger, it's just being near him, being around all the alien danger...

[unfocused]

Chloe IS NOT Clark's responsibility. She is his friend. I would never ever say that any of my friends were my responsibility no matter how much power i had, how many secrets of mine they were keeping. It is their CHOICE!

Who does Chloe call for when she needs help? Who does Chloe know would save her when she is in danger? Who is Clark's sidekick? It's fairly obvious that Chloe depends on Clark like a baby to her mother, in every episode. And for good reason. Even you agree that Chloe is "who she is" because of Clark and his secret. She puts herself in constant danger just knowing Clark's secret. Of course she is his responsibility, if even a little.

There's no doubt about that and you can use you and your friends as examples all you want but the truth of the matter is YOU are not Superman and there is no possible way you can EVER compare yourself to him in the respects of his decisions. If you indeed had tremendous power and an important destiny (important to the survival of mankind) then I would say "yes, go ahead and use yourself and your friends as examples." but this isn't the case.

Also, I'm not buying your reasoning as to why Clark isn't where he should be at this point in becoming Superman. I just can't find your case strong enough. To me, he is at a point, mentally, where he knows he has a destiny that is to defend people, he knows he will need a dual identity for this, and he has emerging feelings for Lois Lane. He is enjoying his work at the Daily Planet and he is going out at night saving people who are in danger. All of this tells me he is on the right track and is just moments away from becoming an iconic super hero.

[xrayvision]

I'm glad because now Clark will be even more independent like in seasons 1-3 (when Chloe didn't know) but at a higher degree. And it could allow Chloe to become more interesting again. This gives Chloe a chance to reinvent herself and perhaps start questioning meteor freaks & stuff all over again but on a different route.

I've been saying for a long time that the main reason Clark was so stupid in seasons 5-7 was due to his overdependence on Chloe. I did not like how he said Chloe did more for him than he ever did for her, because he was neglecting all the times he saved her throughout the past 8 years. And it was because Al/Miles started making Chloe invade & take over several parts of Clark's role on the show that he became the BDA.

Clark not having such a close confidant will make him much, much more like the iconic Superman. Superman does not confide & speak to close friends to do his job as a hero as Clark has so much, and this will allow Clark to finally resemble Superman more than he ever has.

So I'm very glad.

[Just Another Guy]

I'll ignore the opinion that Clark needs Chloe out of the way, because I couldn't disagree more. But I will hone in on what you said about her saving him more than he could ever save her. Are you forgetting that she put her life on the line for him without ever having powers? I'd say from a certain point of view, that makes her his hero, just as much as he is hers.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Who does Chloe call for when she needs help? Who does Chloe know would save her when she is in danger? Who is Clark's sidekick? It's fairly obvious that Chloe depends on Clark like a baby to her mother, in every episode. And for good reason. Even you agree that Chloe is "who she is" because of Clark and his secret. She puts herself in constant danger just knowing Clark's secret. Of course she is his responsibility, if even a little. .

she would call her friend for help... that doesnt make her as dependant as a baby. she helps her friend stop bad guys (like a sidekick)... that doesn't mean he is responsible for her... im confused as to your reasoning here... makes no sense too me



There's no doubt about that and you can use you and your friends as examples all you want but the truth of the matter is YOU are not Superman and there is no possible way you can EVER compare yourself to him in the respects of his decisions. If you indeed had tremendous power and an important destiny (important to the survival of mankind) then I would say "yes, go ahead and use yourself and your friends as examples." but this isn't the case. .

in order to consider why characters make decisions, i have to put myself in their shoes. i cannot make judgements without trying to picture what i would do in that same situation. it doesnt mean i'm right, and it doesnt mean that i have a good idea of what being Clark would be like, but i'm using my own experiance and my own idea of what i would do in order to judge whether Clark's decision was moral

there is nothing wrong with that

everyone on this forum is making their opinions on this matter based on what they feel would be the right thing to do in the situation... no one is watching the show and going 'he is superman, i must not question his actions because he is always right'. we are all comparing superman to ourselves and our standard of what is right



Also, I'm not buying your reasoning as to why Clark isn't where he should be at this point in becoming Superman. I just can't find your case strong enough. To me, he is at a point, mentally, where he knows he has a destiny that is to defend people, he knows he will need a dual identity for this, and he has emerging feelings for Lois Lane. He is enjoying his work at the Daily Planet and he is going out at night saving people who are in danger. All of this tells me he is on the right track and is just moments away from becoming an iconic super hero.

the thing is, i could spend hours going back over posts i have made that would better explain why i feel the way i do. i could re watch every episode from season 8 so far and quote scenes that i thought showed him in a bad light. and you would still try and pick at everything i said, try to make me look like an idiot, try to undermine me by pointing out spelling mistakes and suggest that what i am saying is laughable

so i'm sorry but i honestly don't have a good enough insentive to put that much effort into my arguement for you

and btw, you are not a judge at my trial, so whether or not you are satisfied with the strength of my 'case' is of no consequence to me

i am not presenting anything as fact other than my feelings

i am not satisfied with smallville season 8
i do not feel that Clark is close to becoming Superman
i do not feel that what clark did to chloe was justified, and i think it was unethical

those are the only facts i put out

[unfocused]

I'm glad because now Clark will be even more independent like in seasons 1-3 (when Chloe didn't know) but at a higher degree. And it could allow Chloe to become more interesting again. This gives Chloe a chance to reinvent herself and perhaps start questioning meteor freaks & stuff all over again but on a different route.

I've been saying for a long time that the main reason Clark was so stupid in seasons 5-7 was due to his overdependence on Chloe. I did not like how he said Chloe did more for him than he ever did for her, because he was neglecting all the times he saved her throughout the past 8 years. And it was because Al/Miles started making Chloe invade & take over several parts of Clark's role on the show that he became the BDA.

Clark not having such a close confidant will make him much, much more like the iconic Superman. Superman does not confide & speak to close friends to do his job as a hero as Clark has so much, and this will allow Clark to finally resemble Superman more than he ever has.

So I'm very glad.

Which is the MAIN reason I feel Clark's choice was right. There are other reasons, but this one should be the foundation behind the reasoning of any Superman fan that just wants to see Clark take that mantle on his own.

[Hopefulsuicide]

hang on, are you suggesting that Clark was aware of the fact that he was too dependant on Chloe so he didn't restore her memories so that he wouldn't be able to turn to her anymore, thus forcing himself to be more mature?

[xrayvision]

I'll ignore the opinion that Clark needs Chloe out of the way, because I couldn't disagree more. But I will hone in on what you said about her saving him more than he could ever save her. Are you forgetting that she put her life on the line for him without ever having powers? I'd say from a certain point of view, that makes her his hero, just as much as he is hers.

I'm not minimizing what she did for him (at least that's not how I meant for it to sound like). I'm saying it was a mistake for those circumstances (i.e. Clark needing to be saved because he was a BDA) to ever exist.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


hang on, are you suggesting that Clark was aware of the fact that he was too dependant on Chloe so he didn't restore her memories so that he wouldn't be able to turn to her anymore, thus forcing himself to be more mature?

I think that was definitely a part of why he did what he did. But the main part was her safety. He knows that with her knowledge of his secret, she is in constant danger and was used as a bargaining chip by Brainiac (along with Lana last season). Clark knows that he can save many more lives if that liability doesn't exist.

[unfocused]

she would call her friend for help... that doesnt make her as dependant as a baby. she helps her friend stop bad guys (like a sidekick)... that doesn't mean he is responsible for her... im confused as to your reasoning here... makes no sense too me
"Even you agree that Chloe is 'who she is' because of Clark and his secret. She puts herself in constant danger just knowing Clark's secret. Of course she is his responsibility, if even a little."


the thing is, i could spend hours going back over posts i have made that would better explain why i feel the way i do. i could re watch every episode from season 8 so far and quote scenes that i thought showed him in a bad light. and you would still try and pick at everything i said, try to make me look like an idiot, try to undermine me by pointing out spelling mistakes and suggest that what i am saying is laughable
Never have I once pointed out your many spelling and grammatical errors :\



and btw, you are not a judge at my trial, so whether or not you are satisfied with the strength of my 'case' is of no consequence to me
That's the purpose of debates. But don't get me wrong, I do think you make strong points in some areas. Just not in the area of Clark becoming Superman.


i am not presenting anything as fact other than my feelings

"Feelings." A more personal way of saying "opinions."

[xrayvision]

Which is the MAIN reason I feel Clark's choice was right. There are other reasons, but this one should be the foundation behind the reasoning of any Superman fan that just wants to see Clark take that mantle on his own.

I also agree that it was Clark's choice to make since it was his secret, which should have never been exposed in the first place (Alicia exposing it was really an act of betrayal since she said she never would expose him). It also was a huge liability, and he was the one who was constantly put in difficult situations because of that liability (the liability was that Brainiac & others who want to find out, harm, or get to Clark could use her). Plus a human has/had no business having Brainiac's powers, and all the resistance she put up to not wanting to give them up put Clark in more danger.

[unfocused]

I think that was definitely a part of why he did what he did. But the main part was her safety. He knows that with her knowledge of his secret, she is in constant danger and was used as a bargaining chip by Brainiac (along with Lana last season). Clark knows that he can save many more lives if that liability doesn't exist.

I have to agree with you here. It was my belief that Clark knew he depended too much on Chloe and especially her BrainIAC infection. Which would make sense that he would feel more inclined to take her out of his world with the mindwipe, since the BrainIAC infection was mostly his fault. Which, IN TURN, helps prove my point that Chloe was indeed Clark's responsibility.

[Hopefulsuicide]

"Even you agree that Chloe is 'who she is' because of Clark and his secret. She puts herself in constant danger just knowing Clark's secret. Of course she is his responsibility, if even a little."


Never have I once pointed out your many spelling and grammatical errors :\



That's the purpose of debates. But don't get me wrong, I do think you make strong points in some areas. Just not in the area of Clark becoming Superman.



"Feelings." A more personal way of saying "opinions."

point 1: do you realise you just quoted yourself again? i'm sorry but was i supposed to have a different reaction this time?

point 2: i recall back in season 7 and this season, numerous times when my choice of words, my typos, my misinterpretations of what people said etc have come under fire from you. but it's 3.50 in the morning here... don't make me find examples :lol:

point 3: that's fair enough. i mean it's a good thing if you like what they have done this season, i'm almost envious.

point 4: yes, feelings is a more personal way of saying opinions... was there a point to pointing that out? or you just stating random truths now :lol:

anyway, i've got to give it a rest for tonight, i have to get up for a lecture in 4 hours. if only i could do my university work with as much passion as i argue with you :p

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


I also agree that it was Clark's choice to make since it was his secret, which should have never been exposed in the first place (Alicia exposing it was really an act of betrayal since she said she never would expose him). It also was a huge liability, and he was the one who was constantly put in difficult situations because of that liability (the liability was that Brainiac & others who want to find out, harm, or get to Clark could use her). Plus a human has/had no business having Brainiac's powers, and all the resistance she put up to not wanting to give them up put Clark in more danger.

i think he would have been within his right to take her memory of his abilities if it was straight after. but not when her whole life for 4 years has been so much about this truth.

i never saw Chloe put up a fight giving up braniac's powers. she just didnt know what to do about it and tried to make the best of it by using them to help him.

[xrayvision]

I have to agree with you here. It was my belief that Clark knew he depended too much on Chloe and especially her BrainIAC infection. Which would make sense that he would feel more inclined to take her out of his world with the mindwipe, since the BrainIAC infection was mostly his fault. Which, IN TURN, helps prove my point that Chloe was indeed Clark's responsibility.

I agree with how she was his responsibility. In the comics, Lois is always in danger and Superman has to save her. But the difference between comics Lois & Chloe is that Lois for a long time didn't know his secret. The comics are written so that Lois is married to Clark and Superman's enemies have no suspicions about her involvement with Superman. The problem with Smallville is that Clark is suspected by many people for being more than he lets on. When Chloe knew his secret and people knew she was his best friend, she was put in constant danger, was a liability and Clark's responsibility. The main thing is that the alter ego exists in the comics and takes suspicion away from Clark.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I think that was definitely a part of why he did what he did. But the main part was her safety. He knows that with her knowledge of his secret, she is in constant danger and was used as a bargaining chip by Brainiac (along with Lana last season). Clark knows that he can save many more lives if that liability doesn't exist.

i'm going to give up... but one last frustrated eugggghhhhh

if lana and chloe hadnt known the secret, brainiac would still have done the exact same thing too them... they just wouldnt have understood it

[unfocused]

i'm going to give up... but one last frustrated eugggghhhhh

if lana and chloe hadnt known the secret, brainiac would still have done the exact same thing too them... they just wouldnt have understood it

Which is the whole point of "letting go" of Chloe, and accepting to let go of Lana, as per her request.

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----


point 1: do you realise you just quoted yourself again? i'm sorry but was i supposed to have a different reaction this time?
I felt you overlooked one sentence I wrote, that's all.


point 2: i recall back in season 7 and this season, numerous times when my choice of words, my typos, my misinterpretations of what people said etc have come under fire from you. but it's 3.50 in the morning here... don't make me find examples :lol:
That's just not me. I can honestly say I never did that. I make a point NOT to nitpick another members spelling.


point 3: that's fair enough. i mean it's a good thing if you like what they have done this season, i'm almost envious.
Like I said before, I wish you could feel the way I do, it's an almost pure euphoric feeling, what I see in Clark today.


anyway, i've got to give it a rest for tonight, i have to get up for a lecture in 4 hours. if only i could do my university work with as much passion as i argue with you :p
Make no mistake, I respect and adore your passion, even though it's always in a fight with me when I see it ;)

[svtwamedfan05]

Even though I don't absolutely love the idea I still think it took alot of maturity for Clark to do what he did. So I voted Yes

[xrayvision]

i'm going to give up... but one last frustrated eugggghhhhh

if lana and chloe hadnt known the secret, brainiac would still have done the exact same thing too them... they just wouldnt have understood it

Would he? I'm not so sure. If they were just casual contacts, then I don't think he would go after them, let alone even know about them. My opinion is that because they were so close to the action (Lana investigating the black ship---which was the main part of Brainiac and Chloe constantly chasing things for Clark & even trying to stop Brainiac's plans in the past & helping Clark stop him) is why he came after them. Martha knew his secret too, but he didn't really go after her except he tricked her into thinking he was Jonathan's spirit & that was to make the illusion of Jonathan Kent's spirit more convincing to Clark since more than 1 person would have seen it.

[Serynarpc]

I'm not minimizing what she did for him (at least that's not how I meant for it to sound like). I'm saying it was a mistake for those circumstances (i.e. Clark needing to be saved because he was a BDA) to ever exist.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----



I think that was definitely a part of why he did what he did. But the main part was her safety. He knows that with her knowledge of his secret, she is in constant danger and was used as a bargaining chip by Brainiac (along with Lana last season). Clark knows that he can save many more lives if that liability doesn't exist.

I'm not certain that Clark's decision wasn't him being a BDA. After all, he abused a friends trust. This Clark peeking at Chloe's patient files. This is altering Chloe's being.

Those thinking that Clark is better off without Chloe, can someone tell me whose going to save Clark when someone drops Green K on Clark's chest or the next time he gets sent to the Phantom Zone?

[harryandginnyfanatic]

I honestly don't know.

It's good that Chloe will be able to put Jimmy first now that she's no longer burndend with Clark's secret.

Chloe said that things would change when she and Jimmy got married. Clark just made that easier for them.

[xrayvision]

I'm not certain that Clark's decision wasn't him being a BDA. After all, he abused a friends trust. This Clark peeking at Chloe's patient files. This is altering Chloe's being.

Those thinking that Clark is better off without Chloe, can someone tell me whose going to save Clark when someone drops Green K on Clark's chest or the next time he gets sent to the Phantom Zone?

Clark will have to save himself. That's the whole point. If others are saving him, then he's no longer the hero. Also, if he can't save himself from some kryptonite, then how the heck is he gonna stop Doomsday?

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----


I honestly don't know.

It's good that Chloe will be able to put Jimmy first now that she's no longer burndend with Clark's secret.

Chloe said that things would change when she and Jimmy got married. Clark just made that easier for them.

I'm not sure you're a Chloe fan, but if you are, I'm pretty confident when I say this, this happening to Chloe could be one of the best things to happen to her character since it puts her in uncharted waters and anything could happen.

[unfocused]

Those thinking that Clark is better off without Chloe, can someone tell me whose going to save Clark when someone drops Green K on Clark's chest or the next time he gets sent to the Phantom Zone?

That's just something you're going to have to wait and see. Or go to the spoiler section.

In my opinion, Clark has matured greatly and it is now his own duty to protect himself. He knew exactly what he was giving up when giving up Chloe. He did it for her, if he did it for himself, so she can remove any kryptonite from his chest, then he would have restored all her memories of him.

So this, again, tells us he didn't mindwipe Chloe for his own benefit, since he knew he wouldn't have her help anymore.

And again, I give much respect to this man for doing this.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


Clark will have to save himself. That's the whole point. If others are saving him, then he's no longer the hero.

Haha, you posted before, but this is basically what I am saying.

[Tatiana]

I'm not certain that Clark's decision wasn't him being a BDA. After all, he abused a friends trust. This Clark peeking at Chloe's patient files. This is altering Chloe's being.

Those thinking that Clark is better off without Chloe, can someone tell me whose going to save Clark when someone drops Green K on Clark's chest or the next time he gets sent to the Phantom Zone?


Well that's the thing, he needs to stop relying on her so much and need to be saved by her, Superman gets out of those problems by himself, and at the most he can have the justice league help him, they r there for that, they r superheroes as well, they can take the heat.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

[quote=unfocused;4172058]That's just something you're going to have to wait and see. Or go to the spoiler section.

In my opinion, Clark has matured greatly and it is now his own duty to protect himself. He knew exactly what he was giving up when giving up Chloe. He did it for her, if he did it for himself, so she can remove any kryptonite from his chest, then he would have restored all her memories of him.

So this, again, tells us he didn't mindwipe Chloe for his own benefit, since he knew he wouldn't have her help anymore.

And again, I give much respect to this man for doing this

I agree completely with everything you said :)

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

wow weird, it didn't quote your comments unfocused, but well I do agree with your comments :)

[unfocused]

Thank you.

[devilneedsaride]

He doesn't need to see the consequences of taking chloe's memories to know it's wrong. It simply is wrong. There are some things that your conscience tells you are wrong. This should have been one of them.I absolutely agree. And it doesn't matter what the consequences are, it doesn't matter if Chloe wins the lottery and marries Brad Pitt and has many fat children and lives in a state of constant euphoria for the rest of her life, it all comes down to it NOT being Clark's decision to make. It was Chloe's mind, it was Chloe's decision. I don't care what Clark's intentions were, I don't care what the results are, he took away Chloe's right to chose what happens to one of the most important and personal parts of her mind when it mattered most. He took away part of who she was, against her explicit wishes. There is no excuse for that, there is no forgiveness. Anybody who doesn't intrinsically know that that is wrong is somebody who should not be walking around with superpowers, period.

I too, will not be able to stomach any plotline in which Chloe finds out what he did and forgives him. I honestly would just have to stop watching Smallville, because the characters would just completely stop making sense.


At the same time, something feels off here. It feels so incredibly wrong that Clark didn't have that innate sense that I'm having trouble buying it as a decision he'de make, and part of me is inclined to chalk it up to seriously bad storytelling. It seems likely to me that the PS3 wanted Chloe to lose her memories as a plot device or for canonical reasons or whatever, and had Clark do this as a "heroic" thing without really thinking at all about what these actions meant. To write a good story, you HAVE to do that. You have to scratch beneath the surface. You HAVE to think deeply about the motivations and reasons and feelings behind each of the characters. You HAVE to think about what every single action they take means about them in terms of character development. You have to obsess over it. A part of me suspects that TPTB wrote this in because they thought about it in an unforgiveably shallow manner, without considering what the deeper meaning behind Clark's actions was. On the surface, sure, he's willing to give up his confidante to save her. Barely scratch the surface and you get controlling, selfish, and complete disregard for people's most basic rights, not to mention a hardcore god complex. I think they just didn't look that far, and that's an unforgivable blunder in storytelling. They could rectify it with changes down the road, consequences, etc, but I doubt that they will.

[unfocused]

I'm very interested in seeing how this story plays out. Clark is being blamed for something the writers wrote in. But, if Chloe finds out, she will forgive him. And all of these same posters will blame the writers, NOT Chloe! You'd think these posters would be mad at their favorite mary sue, but they won't.

If Clark mindwipes Chloe, it's Clarks fault.

If Chloe forgives Clark, it's the writers fault.

When, in hell, will Chloe take responsibility for her own choices? When Chloe wanted to go to Dr. Knox and have her powers taken away along with 5 years of memories that include Clark (FULL memories, not just bits and pieces) what were Chloe fans thinking?

"Oh, it's her choice, my lubby wubby mary sue can't do no wrong!"

[devilneedsaride]

I'm very interested in seeing how this story plays out. Clark is being blamed for something the writers wrote in. But, if Chloe finds out, she will forgive him. And all of these same posters will blame the writers, NOT Chloe! You'd think these posters would be mad at their favorite mary sue, but they won't.

If Clark mindwipes Chloe, it's Clarks fault.

If Chloe forgives Clark, it's the writers fault.

When, in hell, will Chloe take responsibility for her own choices? When Chloe wanted to go to Dr. Knox and have her powers taken away along with 5 years of memories that include Clark (FULL memories, not just bits and pieces) what were Chloe fans thinking?

"Oh, it's her choice, my lubby wubby mary sue can't do no wrong!"

First of all, that's ignoring the basic moral issue. It is wrong to take away someone else's right to decide what happens to the most important parts of themselves. Chloe is within her rights to wipe her own memories because that's her decision. Clark is not, because, again, it's her decision. Not his. See the difference? I'm not upset because I think Chloe shouldn't have lost the memories, I'm upset because Clark did something altogether unspeakable, morally speaking.

While you didn't specifically reference my post, I feel as though you are putting words in my mouth. I think your point, if you are indeed referencing what I said, is fallacious given that I said a) I'm having trouble completely blaming clark instead of the writers and b) nothing to the effect that the character of Chloe would not suffer if she forgave him. She would suffer to the point, combined with the bad writing happening with Clark's decision, that the characters, and therefore the show in general, would lose cohesiveness and completely fail to make sense.

And it's not necessarily a given that she will forgive him, either. Heck, maybe that's how she leaves the show :rolleyes: (yeah, right)

[Black Panda]

Clark's decision wasn't the most moral, or most trusting, but it was the best decision for Chloe.
Did you feel this way when Jor El took Clark's powers? That he had the right to choose how Clark should live his life?

Why is marrying Jimmy a better path than living a heroic life, complete with the inherant risks? It it perhaps because Clark imagines that is what he would prefer? Even if it were preferable, why would it be better to strip her memories, rather than to refuse her help?


Chloe, who so adamantly cried to Clark about her memories, completely refused to consider Clark's side in this, how Clark is responsible for her. So, in a way, he had a right to do what he did.
No, he has a right to distance himself from the relationship if he chooses, like a responsible adult. He doesn't have the right to unmake her brain and leave the malicious code of an alien supercomputer in place because it suits his convenience. This was not a intelligently considered choice, but an emotional one.

Clark stripping Chloe's memories is very similar to Clark wanting to let Brainiac write him out of existance because he felt guilty about Lana, even iwhen that meant the world will be destroyed. It wasn't going to save Lana. Clark's guilt is downright pathological. Don't confuse "tough moral choice" with emotional suicide attempt.

[unfocused]

Why is marrying Jimmy a better path than living a heroic life, complete with the inherant risks? It it perhaps because Clark imagines that is what he would prefer? Even if it were preferable, why would it be better to strip her memories, rather than to refuse her help?
Because refusing her help, letting her die, and stripping her memories are all evils. If you consider Clark wanting to keep his friendship with Chloe, then stripping her memories of his secret was the lesser evil. At least now they can still be friends, Clark can continue to protect her without her knowledge, and the two can continue loving each other in their sister/brother way. Refusing her help would risk a rift between them, and letting her die would.. well let's just say we don't want that :)


No, he has a right to distance himself from the relationship if he chooses, like a responsible adult. He doesn't have the right to unmake her brain and leave the malicious code of an alien supercomputer in place because it suits his convenience. This was not a intelligently considered choice, but an emotional one.
Let me correct you. Jor-El didn't leave any code in Chloe's brain. He extracted BrainIAC from her body and rebuilt most of her memories. The memory wipe replaces some memories with others. So Chloe isn't "swiss cheese" as some posters love to put it. There will be no plotholes since Jor-El filled all of those holes. With what? Wait and see, I don't know yet so I can't help you there.

EDIT: I just noticed your avatar :lol:

[Just Another Guy]

I'm very interested in seeing how this story plays out. Clark is being blamed for something the writers wrote in. But, if Chloe finds out, she will forgive him. And all of these same posters will blame the writers, NOT Chloe! You'd think these posters would be mad at their favorite mary sue, but they won't.

If Clark mindwipes Chloe, it's Clarks fault.

If Chloe forgives Clark, it's the writers fault.

When, in hell, will Chloe take responsibility for her own choices? When Chloe wanted to go to Dr. Knox and have her powers taken away along with 5 years of memories that include Clark (FULL memories, not just bits and pieces) what were Chloe fans thinking?

"Oh, it's her choice, my lubby wubby mary sue can't do no wrong!"
The thing is, I'm angry with the writers for coming up with this idea. I understand why Clark did what he did. I don't like it, and I think it was stupid, but Clark has to do what he thinks is best. As for Chloe forgiving him, she would. She would understand as well, even though I don't think she would be very happy. And I'm upset about this storyline right now, whereas the writers setting things straight again would be a big relief, in my opinion. So if they skip the drama between Clark and Chloe, I wouldn't mind a bit.

[unfocused]

Well, whether Chloe regains knowledge of the secret or not, I'm sure it will be a great story. I personally think she will, I won't agree with that decision, but I also believe it would still be a good story. And I love a good story.

[Hopefulsuicide]

i can see why this arguement is remaining repetative... there are so many prongs of arguement coming together

1. Is it immoral to take someones memories, even if it is for their own good?

2. Is it really keeping her safe, taking her memories like that? does it not endanger her more, or the same amount?

3. Did the writers do an injustice to a great character by erasing the last 4 years from her memory and making fans feel like now it was for nothing? Or does Chloe now have a second chance at being her own character

4. Does this action push him towards his destiny as Superman or is a huge step back? Do you think the show will be better from now on?

i think half the time people are confusing themselves with which arguement they are facing :lol:

tbh while i would post about all of these topics, the only one i am passionate about is that it is immoral to take someone's memories no matter what the consequences. but that's probably because i base my moral structure on the Whedonverse and LnC's evident morals. and i think i do tend to think of them as fact.

tho, as an interesting side point...

Do you think what he did is technically ILLEGAL?

[Fat Elvis 007]

I absolutely agree. And it doesn't matter what the consequences are, it doesn't matter if Chloe wins the lottery and marries Brad Pitt and has many fat children and lives in a state of constant euphoria for the rest of her life, it all comes down to it NOT being Clark's decision to make. It was Chloe's mind, it was Chloe's decision. I don't care what Clark's intentions were, I don't care what the results are, he took away Chloe's right to chose what happens to one of the most important and personal parts of her mind when it mattered most. He took away part of who she was, against her explicit wishes. There is no excuse for that, there is no forgiveness. Anybody who doesn't intrinsically know that that is wrong is somebody who should not be walking around with superpowers, period.

I too, will not be able to stomach any plotline in which Chloe finds out what he did and forgives him. I honestly would just have to stop watching Smallville, because the characters would just completely stop making sense.

Word, chapter, and verse. :)



At the same time, something feels off here. It feels so incredibly wrong that Clark didn't have that innate sense that I'm having trouble buying it as a decision he'de make, and part of me is inclined to chalk it up to seriously bad storytelling. It seems likely to me that the PS3 wanted Chloe to lose her memories as a plot device or for canonical reasons or whatever, and had Clark do this as a "heroic" thing without really thinking at all about what these actions meant. To write a good story, you HAVE to do that. You have to scratch beneath the surface. You HAVE to think deeply about the motivations and reasons and feelings behind each of the characters. You HAVE to think about what every single action they take means about them in terms of character development. You have to obsess over it. A part of me suspects that TPTB wrote this in because they thought about it in an unforgiveably shallow manner, without considering what the deeper meaning behind Clark's actions was. On the surface, sure, he's willing to give up his confidante to save her. Barely scratch the surface and you get controlling, selfish, and complete disregard for people's most basic rights, not to mention a hardcore god complex. I think they just didn't look that far, and that's an unforgivable blunder in storytelling. They could rectify it with changes down the road, consequences, etc, but I doubt that they will.

This part I'm not sure I agree with, because sadly, I didn't have any problem believing that Clark would make this decision. I think it is in character for this version of Superman (again, some versions have done similar things while others have been revolted by the idea of mindwiping someone). He has always had this outlook that he is to blame for everything, and that has often led him to believing he is the only one that can solve certain problems, even if they are not his to solve. Sometimes this can be a good thing, but in this case, it had terrible results, because Clark took it upon himself to make a decision for someone that he had no right to make.

That isn't to say that it wasn't bad, shallow writing--it was. But it was also consistent for the character we have seen over the last seven and a half years. It wasn't a step forward--it was par for the course.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


I'm very interested in seeing how this story plays out. Clark is being blamed for something the writers wrote in. But, if Chloe finds out, she will forgive him. And all of these same posters will blame the writers, NOT Chloe! You'd think these posters would be mad at their favorite mary sue, but they won't.

If Clark mindwipes Chloe, it's Clarks fault.

If Chloe forgives Clark, it's the writers fault.

When, in hell, will Chloe take responsibility for her own choices? When Chloe wanted to go to Dr. Knox and have her powers taken away along with 5 years of memories that include Clark (FULL memories, not just bits and pieces) what were Chloe fans thinking?

"Oh, it's her choice, my lubby wubby mary sue can't do no wrong!"

You are making (in my case, false) assumptions about a group of fans, which is against KryptonSite rules, not to mention it's extremely rude.

Also, I did think Chloe was being stupid in "Cure."

----- Added 7 Minutes later -----


Did you feel this way when Jor El took Clark's powers? That he had the right to choose how Clark should live his life?

Why is marrying Jimmy a better path than living a heroic life, complete with the inherant risks? It it perhaps because Clark imagines that is what he would prefer? Even if it were preferable, why would it be better to strip her memories, rather than to refuse her help?



It makes me wonder what the outcry would have been if the roles had been reversed. After all, we have been told many times that Clark would be happier living the farm life with Lana. So does that mean that Chloe has the right to take Clark's powers and his memories of everything Kryptonian? After all, it would be for his own good. ;)

----- Added 11 Minutes later -----


Because refusing her help, letting her die, and stripping her memories are all evils. If you consider Clark wanting to keep his friendship with Chloe, then stripping her memories of his secret was the lesser evil.

[/QUOTE]

Talking to Chloe and risking a rift between them is not an "evil." It's an undesirable situation, but there is nothing inherently evil about it. It would clearly be the lesser "evil" out of those three options. It would be a much more mature decision than stripping her memories without her knowledge or approval. But that's OK because Clark got to avoid an awkward conversation? Please. :rolleyes:


At least now they can still be friends, Clark can continue to protect her without her knowledge, and the two can continue loving each other in their sister/brother way.

Without Chloe ever knowing what huge chunks of her life her best friend has stolen from her. I'm sorry, but that sounds awfully creepy to me. :\

----- Added 13 Minutes later -----


The memory wipe replaces some memories with others. So Chloe isn't "swiss cheese" as some posters love to put it. There will be no plotholes since Jor-El filled all of those holes. With what? Wait and see, I don't know yet so I can't help you there.

Why are you using speculation as fact?

Oh, and by the way, I love your avatar. :)

[RedKRules]

I am wondering ........ who is the next one Clark will mind bleach now ??

[Jeta]

It wasn't a Clark's decission. Chloe is an adult person and she MUST choose what is better for her. Clark hasn't any rights nor moral authority to delete memories of others without permission. The rest is bla, bla, bla.

[Bibi]

I've been a long time lurker at Kryptonsite and I always read the forums because I like seeing people's opinions on all things Smallville. However, I feel compelled to say something on this subject. I was extremely upset about the mind wipe Clark pulled on Chloe! Yes, I can see where he is coming from and yes the circumstances were dire.. but I don't agree with what he did.

Also, I don't agree with the opinion of some people that it is a good thing because now Clark has lost his Chloe-crutch and will be forced to man-up. I think it is nothing more than an excuse, and a weak one at that! I don’t believe its Chloe’s fault that he had been using her as a crutch. I know that some viewers choose to see Chloe as nothing but Clark’s crutch and feel she was undermining him becoming Superman. I don’t agree, I think Chloe is an essential part of this show and has contributed to making it a great show in a big way.

I for one believe that the fault is on Clark’s side. He had a choice to either lean on her or to go at it alone BUT he chose to lean on her. Instead of the mind wipe, Clark could have done the right thing and stopped relying on her as he did. She is not in danger because she new his secret, she is in danger because she was his ally, a choice he was happy with for 4 years! But, then things go bad and yet again somebody else has to pay for his mistakes.. Sorry, but I don’t see that as being heroic.

Yes, it might have been a challenge to convince her that he needed to do this on his own but, he is Superman after all and he should have at least tried (even Oliver told him to talk to Chloe)! Yes, I agree that it was time he started being the hero we know and love, BUT THIS WAS NOT THE WAY TO DO IT! It was a complete cop-out!

I so blame PS3 for this! I’m so outraged about them having done this to the best written character on the show (just my humble opinion). Frankly, I don’t care if they decide to rectify this injustice later and somehow find a way of restoring her memories because that would mean that it was nothing more that a cheap gimmick and an insult to our intelligence!

For the life of me I cannot understand why they would do this - it is basically character assassination! I can only hope that it wasn’t some cheap ploy on PS3’s part to make it easier for them to endear us to another character. Yes, I’m talking about Lois Lane! Let’s face it, Chloe is mega popular with the Smallville fandom and on top of that Chloe and Clark have magical chemistry – they always have and fans have responded to that in a big way (and I mean that in a friendship kind of way, not romantic – I’m not trying to ship here). I can understand that it must be a challange for them to re-create that kind of chemistry with Clois especially since the Chlark relationship has always been so instrumental and so popular, but they had better not do it at Chloe's expense!

If this is indeed their real agenda with the Chloe mind wipe then I will be very disappointed. Wasn’t it enough that they took journalism away from Chloe (in order to make way for Ms Lane) or, that they are marrying her off to Jimmy to conveniently take Chloe out of the picture? Not to mention ruining a perfect episode (Fever) with that sad love-letter fiasco! All in an effort to convince us that Chlark is definitely OFF the table! Seriously, enough already - we get it! We know that Clark ends up with Lois! BUT find another way around your Lois problems! That is what creative writers are for! Don’t sacrifice a great character just because you feel Chloe is undermining Lois. Be freaking patient – these things take time and please stop with these cheap shortcuts!! It’s called shooting yourself in the foot!!!! We, as loyal fans, have been watching this show for 8 years now, we deserve better than this!

[AChloeChick]

^^^WOW! Great post for your first time. ITA with your final paragraph and couldn't have said it any better.

Welcome to the forum and happy posting!

[Fat Elvis 007]

I've been a long time lurker at Kryptonsite and I always read the forums because I like seeing people's opinions on all things Smallville. However, I feel compelled to say something on this subject. I was extremely upset about the mind wipe Clark pulled on Chloe! Yes, I can see where he is coming from and yes the circumstances were dire.. but I don't agree with what he did.

Also, I don't agree with the opinion of some people that it is a good thing because now Clark has lost his Chloe-crutch and will be forced to man-up. I think it is nothing more than an excuse, and a weak one at that! I don’t believe its Chloe’s fault that he had been using her as a crutch. I know that some viewers choose to see Chloe as nothing but Clark’s crutch and feel she was undermining him becoming Superman. I don’t agree, I think Chloe is an essential part of this show and has contributed to making it a great show in a big way.

I for one believe that the fault is on Clark’s side. He had a choice to either lean on her or to go at it alone BUT he chose to lean on her. Instead of the mind wipe, Clark could have done the right thing and stopped relying on her as he did. She is not in danger because she new his secret, she is in danger because she was his ally, a choice he was happy with for 4 years! But, then things go bad and yet again somebody else has to pay for his mistakes.. Sorry, but I don’t see that as being heroic.

Yes, it might have been a challenge to convince her that he needed to do this on his own but, he is Superman after all and he should have at least tried (even Oliver told him to talk to Chloe)! Yes, I agree that it was time he started being the hero we know and love, BUT THIS WAS NOT THE WAY TO DO IT! It was a complete cop-out!

I so blame PS3 for this! I’m so outraged about them having done this to the best written character on the show (just my humble opinion). Frankly, I don’t care if they decide to rectify this injustice later and somehow find a way of restoring her memories because that would mean that it was nothing more that a cheap gimmick and an insult to our intelligence!

For the life of me I cannot understand why they would do this - it is basically character assassination! I can only hope that it wasn’t some cheap ploy on PS3’s part to make it easier for them to endear us to another character. Yes, I’m talking about Lois Lane! Let’s face it, Chloe is mega popular with the Smallville fandom and on top of that Chloe and Clark have magical chemistry – they always have and fans have responded to that in a big way (and I mean that in a friendship kind of way, not romantic – I’m not trying to ship here). I can understand that it must be a challange for them to re-create that kind of chemistry with Clois especially since the Chlark relationship has always been so instrumental and so popular, but they had better not do it at Chloe's expense!

If this is indeed their real agenda with the Chloe mind wipe then I will be very disappointed. Wasn’t it enough that they took journalism away from Chloe (in order to make way for Ms Lane) or, that they are marrying her off to Jimmy to conveniently take Chloe out of the picture? Not to mention ruining a perfect episode (Fever) with that sad love-letter fiasco! All in an effort to convince us that Chlark is definitely OFF the table! Seriously, enough already - we get it! We know that Clark ends up with Lois! BUT find another way around your Lois problems! That is what creative writers are for! Don’t sacrifice a great character just because you feel Chloe is undermining Lois. Be freaking patient – these things take time and please stop with these cheap shortcuts!! It’s called shooting yourself in the foot!!!! We, as loyal fans, have been watching this show for 8 years now, we deserve better than this!

Welcome Bibi, but next time, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. :p

Also, guess I have to change my avatar again. Don't you know you're not supposed to show up to the party in the same outfit as someone else? ;)

[umm]

I've been a long time lurker at Kryptonsite and I always read the forums because I like seeing people's opinions on all things Smallville. However, I feel compelled to say something on this subject. I was extremely upset about the mind wipe Clark pulled on Chloe! Yes, I can see where he is coming from and yes the circumstances were dire.. but I don't agree with what he did.
Also, I don't agree with the opinion of some people that it is a good thing because now Clark has lost his Chloe-crutch and will be forced to man-up. I think it is nothing more than an excuse, and a weak one at that! I don’t believe its Chloe’s fault that he had been using her as a crutch. I know that some viewers choose to see Chloe as nothing but Clark’s crutch and feel she was undermining him becoming Superman. I don’t agree, I think Chloe is an essential part of this show and has contributed to making it a great show in a big way.
I for one believe that the fault is on Clark’s side. He had a choice to either lean on her or to go at it alone BUT he chose to lean on her. Instead of the mind wipe, Clark could have done the right thing and stopped relying on her as he did. She is not in danger because she new his secret, she is in danger because she was his ally, a choice he was happy with for 4 years! But, then things go bad and yet again somebody else has to pay for his mistakes.. Sorry, but I don’t see that as being heroic.
Yes, it might have been a challenge to convince her that he needed to do this on his own but, he is Superman after all and he should have at least tried (even Oliver told him to talk to Chloe)! Yes, I agree that it was time he started being the hero we know and love, BUT THIS WAS NOT THE WAY TO DO IT! It was a complete cop-out!
I so blame PS3 for this! I’m so outraged about them having done this to the best written character on the show (just my humble opinion). Frankly, I don’t care if they decide to rectify this injustice later and somehow find a way of restoring her memories because that would mean that it was nothing more that a cheap gimmick and an insult to our intelligence!
For the life of me I cannot understand why they would do this - it is basically character assassination! I can only hope that it wasn’t some cheap ploy on PS3’s part to make it easier for them to endear us to another character. Yes, I’m talking about Lois Lane! Let’s face it, Chloe is mega popular with the Smallville fandom and on top of that Chloe and Clark have magical chemistry – they always have and fans have responded to that in a big way (and I mean that in a friendship kind of way, not romantic – I’m not trying to ship here). I can understand that it must be a challange for them to re-create that kind of chemistry with Clois especially since the Chlark relationship has always been so instrumental and so popular, but they had better not do it at Chloe's expense!
If this is indeed their real agenda with the Chloe mind wipe then I will be very disappointed. Wasn’t it enough that they took journalism away from Chloe (in order to make way for Ms Lane) or, that they are marrying her off to Jimmy to conveniently take Chloe out of the picture? Not to mention ruining a perfect episode (Fever) with that sad love-letter fiasco! All in an effort to convince us that Chlark is definitely OFF the table! Seriously, enough already - we get it! We know that Clark ends up with Lois! BUT find another way around your Lois problems! That is what creative writers are for! Don’t sacrifice a great character just because you feel Chloe is undermining Lois. Be freaking patient – these things take time and please stop with these cheap shortcuts!! It’s called shooting yourself in the foot!!!! We, as loyal fans, have been watching this show for 8 years now, we deserve better than this!


Excelent Bibi, I couldn't have said it better myself! One really can't decide whom to blame first, TPTB or Clark? But I guess that's like the 'which came first, the chicken or the egg?' debate?
Anyway, welcome to the forum Bibi!:)

[Bibi]

Thanks for the "welcome aboard" all. Much appreciated. :)

Fat Elvis 007, I've tried to change my avatar - lets hope it worked and if it did, I hope you like my new outfit better. ;)

[Hopefulsuicide]

i'd wear it :p

[Bibi]

:D Yep, saw it in the shop and I just had to have it....

[unfocused]

Back on topic...


That isn't to say that it wasn't bad, shallow writing--it was. But it was also consistent for the character we have seen over the last seven and a half years. It wasn't a step forward--it was par for the course.
Seeing as how emotional the writing has turned you, myself and many others, I'd have to say it was excellent writing. A great writer leaves the audience wanting more. And you'll be here Thursday, along with myself, waiting to see what's coming next. I'm more than sure of that.


It makes me wonder what the outcry would have been if the roles had been reversed. After all, we have been told many times that Clark would be happier living the farm life with Lana. So does that mean that Chloe has the right to take Clark's powers and his memories of everything Kryptonian? After all, it would be for his own good. ;)
I've never been told that taking away Clark's powers were for his own good. We've always been told the exact opposite. Maybe you're watching Heroes and confusing it with Smallville ;)


Talking to Chloe and risking a rift between them is not an "evil." It's an undesirable situation, but there is nothing inherently evil about it. It would clearly be the lesser "evil" out of those three options. It would be a much more mature decision than stripping her memories without her knowledge or approval. But that's OK because Clark got to avoid an awkward conversation? Please. :rolleyes:
This discussion is about the Clark/Chloe relationship and it's dynamic. So, YES, anything involving their relationship ending is an evil. Get that straight, for starters. And of the three options, the one that would keep the two friends, is definitely the lesser evil.



Without Chloe ever knowing what huge chunks of her life her best friend has stolen from her. I'm sorry, but that sounds awfully creepy to me. :\
Then you must have been creeped out by Lana, Lois, Pete, Lex and pre-secret Chloe. Not to mention the hundreds of other people Clark has saved without their knowledge. Makes real sense.


Oh, and by the way, I love your avatar. :)
Thanks :cool:

[Fat Elvis 007]

Thanks for the "welcome aboard" all. Much appreciated. :)

Fat Elvis 007, I've tried to change my avatar - lets hope it worked and if it did, I hope you like my new outfit better. ;)

Haha, you won't ever catch me wearing that, but it looks good on you. :p

----- Added 8 Minutes later -----


Back on topic...


Seeing as how emotional the writing has turned you, myself and many others, I'd have to say it was excellent writing. A great writer leaves the audience wanting more. And you'll be here Thursday, along with myself, waiting to see what's coming next. I'm more than sure of that.


Just because I have an addiction does not mean the writing is good. ;)


I've never been told that taking away Clark's powers were for his own good. We've always been told the exact opposite. Maybe you're watching Heroes and confusing it with Smallville ;)


Well, that's not exactly what I said. I said he would be happier that way. That, you have been told. By Clark. Many, many times.

But I get your point. The show has seemed to purport the notion that Clark is better off with his powers and following his destiny.

However, I don't recall any time before "Abyss" that we were told Chloe losing her memories of Clark's secret would be for her own good. Fans had said it, sure, but I never got that message from the show. What I got from the show was that Chloe and Clark worked well together and helped each other save the world. The show also told me that Chloe was happier with her life when she was out there making a difference and saving the world. That was even in the dialogue of the episode.


This discussion is about the Clark/Chloe relationship and it's dynamic. So, YES, anything involving their relationship ending is an evil. Get that straight, for starters. And of the three options, the one that would keep the two friends, is definitely the lesser evil.

I must have misunderstood your use of the word evil. But you should know that not every fan would consider the ultimate end of the Chlark friendship an evil thing, or even a bad thing. I personally love the Chlark friendship, but I still would rather have it end than have Clark make such an immoral, "evil" decision.



Then you must have been creeped out by Lana, Lois, Pete, Lex and pre-secret Chloe. Not to mention the hundreds of other people Clark has saved without their knowledge. Makes real sense.

Absolutely not. You keep ignoring the words that I am typing out. I said he stole "huge chunks of her life." There is a huge, huge, huge difference between that and keeping a secret. One is understandable and something Clark had every right to do. It was not a violation of anyone else's rights. The other is a decision that Clark was in no position to make for a woman he claims to respect, and it is a HUGE violation of our basic right to our own minds.

[devilneedsaride]

This part I'm not sure I agree with, because sadly, I didn't have any problem believing that Clark would make this decision. I think it is in character for this version of Superman (again, some versions have done similar things while others have been revolted by the idea of mindwiping someone). He has always had this outlook that he is to blame for everything, and that has often led him to believing he is the only one that can solve certain problems, even if they are not his to solve. Sometimes this can be a good thing, but in this case, it had terrible results, because Clark took it upon himself to make a decision for someone that he had no right to make.

That isn't to say that it wasn't bad, shallow writing--it was. But it was also consistent for the character we have seen over the last seven and a half years. It wasn't a step forward--it was par for the course.


This is an interesting take. I, myself, have always thought of Clark as being deeply moral (ie, concerned with the actual morality/outcome of the situation) rather than superficially moral (concerned with not feeling guilty). Before this event, he's always seemed to me like somebody who honestly cares whether people are being wronged/getting hurt rather than somebody who cares only that it's not his fault. Sure, he's always had a guilt complex, but he's always struck as more genuine than he would have to be to commit this atrocity against his friend. If he were really concerned with Chloe, he could not have gone against her wishes, and he would have reached the situation where he could have wiped her memories and gone "Wow, I should never have this much power over another person." and changed his mind. In this incarnation, however, he wanted Chloe to be mindwiped so he wouldn't feel guilty about the trouble she got into anymore, and his concern for his own feelings superceded his desire to genuinely do right by her. This feels drastically out of character to me.

[unfocused]

Just because I have an addiction does not mean the writing is good. ;)
I find it hard to believe that you are addicted to a show that you believe has bad writing, so I'll just ignore what you're telling me about you thinking the writing is bad. I'm going to go with my gut feeling here, you love the stories PS3 are giving us this season ;)


Well, that's not exactly what I said.
Actually, that's is exactly what you said. "After all, it would be for his own good." See?


However, I don't recall any time before "Abyss" that we were told Chloe losing her memories of Clark's secret would be for her own good. Fans had said it, sure, but I never got that message from the show. What I got from the show was that Chloe and Clark worked well together and helped each other save the world. The show also told me that Chloe was happier with her life when she was out there making a difference and saving the world. That was even in the dialogue of the episode.
What I got from the ending of Abyss and the AU in Apocalypse was that Chloe will have her happy ending without Clark. I can see her happy with Clark and working beside him, but she is also in danger. And this time she was in mortal danger, which is what I believe to have been that final stone that brought the mountain down for Clark and pushed him to make that critical decision.

Clark has felt responsible for Chloe since she learned his secret. So I can be angry with him for making Chloe's decision for her, but I can also agree with it. Because I do feel that in a way, since it was his secret, that decision could be interpreted as partly his to make, especially since he is indeed responsible for Chloe. He puts her in danger just allowing her to know his secret.


I must have misunderstood your use of the word evil. But you should know that not every fan would consider the ultimate end of the Chlark friendship an evil thing, or even a bad thing. I personally love the Chlark friendship, but I still would rather have it end than have Clark make such an immoral, "evil" decision.
Not every fan, no. But this is Clark, not us. And I can totally see his reasoning behind his decision, though some people can't. Any decision Clark would have made would be over analyzed, and some of us would have agreed, while others would have disagreed. Such as it is now. I love the Chlark friendship as well. But at times it made me feel as though Clark depended on Chloe more than a hero of this magnitude should. I'm sure this plays some role in my stand on the subject, but not a very big one.

[RedKalEL]

hey think about it this way at least they didn't kill her off