4 Years Thrown Out the Window! (Chloe/Memory Loss Discussion)

[Malicieux Toutou]

Apparently I'm one of the only people happy about this. For years everyone has been complaining that Clark needs to grow up/embrace his destiny/etc. This is a huge step for him to take. He just stepped out on a ledge where he is the only person. I like it. It shows the writers aren't afraid to do what it takes to make sure Clark embraces his destiny.

With all the self loathing and pity parties Clark has thrown himself the last few years, they need to take steps like this to show us that he is changing. You can't just go from Clark is an emo alien to Clark is Superman without him making tangible steps towards it. This is one of those. Chloe the sidekick who he seemed to not be able to get by without is no more.

Its a GREAT move by the writers. Its gutsy, its smart, its GOOD writing because it is part of a progression that will become more believable at the end.


Exactly. He demonstrated the kind of stoicism we expect from Superman. If you watch the show because you want to see a story about a young Superman, then it's great writing. On the otherhand, if your primary reason for watching the show is because of an infatuation with Chloe, then this twist will make you nervous. Because once this Brainiac mess is sorted out, if Chloe doesn't get her memory back, she will become irrelevant.

For this reason, I'm betting that she will get her memory back.

[ginnyfan]

I thought about this long and hard & I think that there is only one reason they did this. For Lana Lang. If this is really about lining up to the mythos, then the only reason to do it is to have Lana step into her "iconic" role of being Clark's high school sweetheart; who knows his secret; and encourages him to go save the world. Up to this point, Chloe held that mantle much more than Lana. With Chloe's mind-wiped, it gives Lana the ability to step in the shoes of her iconic counter-parts very smoothly.

Works well for Lana's character... they'll probably use her 5 episode run to "salvage" her character and build it up so that Lana ends up Clark's BFF & his secret keeper. It helps him to end her run that way if Chloe is kind of "out of the way" -- because, really, what motivation would Clark have to make that much amends with Lana if Chloe is such a great BFF, already? The final scenes of this episode showed that Clark felt the loss of Chloe knowing his secret... it will be a relief and nice for him when Lana comes back & she knows.

NO! :mad:

[Storm45]

Exactly. He demonstrated the kind of stoicism we expect from Superman. If you watch the show because you want to see a story about a young Superman, then it's great writing. On the otherhand, if your primary reason for watching the show is because of an infatuation with Chloe, then this twist will make you nervous. Because once this Brainiac mess is sorted out, if Chloe doesn't get her memory back, she will become irrelevant.

For this reason, I'm betting that she will get her memory back.

The term infatuation is quite condescending. There's Chloe fans like there's Clark/Superman fans.

[JDS2930]

I have been a fan of Chloe since the end of Season 1 and I started crying when Chloe did not recognize names Kal-El and Krypton. I laughed when the name Brainiac evoked for her a school girl nickname, but it also showed how much she lost. This was so upsetting for me that I did not sleep well last night and my stomach is still recovering from the stress.
<o>:p</o>:p
Like others have said before, I think Clark has regressed back into the martyr complex. He convinced himself that this is for the greater good, that it will get Chloe out of harm’s way. She is already in harms way, and by keeping her memories from her, she has less tools to survive than before.
<o>:p</o>:p
I think he has a vision of Chloe like in Apocalypse, where she seemed happier and less stressed without his secret. In the last scene with Clark, Jimmy and her, she did seem less torn between them. She is not the same person without those memories.
<o>:p</o>:p
If Chloe gets her memories back, it should not return to the status quo of before. Chloe should be upset with <st1>:pClark for playing god without her input and against wishes that she has clearly expressed. I am not sure how many people watch Heroes, but the last episode had a villain modifying memories for his own means. This could be a slippery slope for <st1>:pClark if there are no consequences.</st1></st1>
<o>:p</o>:p
I think that she should get her memories back and this breach of trust starts them drifting apart from each other. I know that they are lining Smallville up with the rest of the Superman lore. This way Chloe stays the beautiful character that we have watched grow and Lois is free to become close to Clark. I would like to see a world where Chloe could be in on the secret with Lois and both of them bust <st1>:pClark’s chops.</st1>
<o>:p</o>:p
I am worried that the mind loss is permanent, but hoping that it is not.

I think you echo my sentiments exacly, SandyV. Chloe is not the same person without those memories. It's like the old saying everyone knows: "everything that happens to you is what makes you who you are." She can't possibly be the same person with all those experiences wiped from her memory. That's like regressing her character development four years. All that development is gone. That, I feel, is just plain disrespectful to Chloe as a character. To have a character's development regressed is one of the worst things I think that can happen to a character.

With that said, for the sake of argument, let's say I were to agree w/ those for the memory wipe. Ethics and character development aside, I still think it presents problems for the whole plot in the form of memory gaps that are going to have to be explained to Chloe. Did she get retconned memories in place of the ones that didn't get restored? If she's going to remember her work as "the watchtower," she'll have to have some kind of alternate earlier memory to explain her knowledge of Ollie, Victor, Bart, but not Clark's secret. What about her meeting Kara last season and trying to help Clark search for Kara's ship? What about the Zor-El fiasco when Chloe mentions to Clark "Well this is where having a super-powered cousin comes in handy"? What about her and Lana taking Kara to get Kara's memory restored? Were those memories just outright not replaced or or were they replaced with "vague" alternate memories? See what I mean? And those are just examples from Season 7. Lord knows how many others there are from Seasons 4-6. One memory interwines with SO many others.

Like SandyV says, I'm hoping and leaning toward this being temporary and building to a breach of trust issue that ends up playing out between Clark and Chloe for some time.

I also agree with the fact that Clark's taking this course of action TOTALLY had him regressing (proving my own point) back to his martyr complex which I thought we had seen him completely shed at the beginning of this season. I thought he had gotten over and moved past the whole "people who know my secret get hurt" issue. Yes, Chloe seemed happy in her alternate life in "Apocolypse," but didn't Clark remember that that "happy" world ended up not being so better off people not knowing his secret?

Finally...I agree w/ the point that ANYONE in Clark's life regardless of whether they know his secret is in danger whenever they're simply in proximity of him.

[Eurynome]

I'm so upset that they would do this to Chloe. Her relationship with Clark once she found out the truth about him is one of the best aspects of the show. I feel like this is a step to remove Chloe from Smallville all together and explain why Chloe is not longer in Clark's life when he becomes Superman. Smallville has always prided itself on the relationship between the characters (think Kent Family dynamics back in Seasons 1-4), but Chloe forgetting about his superpowers reverts their relationship to how it was in Season 3.

I'm really hoping that she'll find out Clark's secret again!

[hiler1988]

She will get her memories back in no time...this is just a filler for the episode. I can't see Chloe being clueless again for too long...

[Bizarrolover]

I agree with you, hiler1988, the memories will come back because at some point, Clark will need them, in the same way they needed Kara's memories and powers back. But in the meanwhile, Chloe will have a normal life. Well, at least until Doomsday crashes her wedding.

[IrishCatholic]

Let's start congratulating the writer staff for getting us to the point where Clark is really turning into Superman! I'm all for Smallville ending this season with the spin-off (or continuation) called "Metropolis" season 1 starting next year! Clark, Jimmy, Lois and Oliver return, but I will deeply miss Chloe.

[Poyntz]

I really don't think the mind wipe made anything safer for chloe. At least when she knew what was going on she wasn't walking around blindly. Now she can walk into danger without knowing it is danger. Before she would of used more caution and knew when to ask Clark for help.

I dont know if that make sense i cant describe what I'm saying to well LOL..
I'll see how it all plays out.

----- Added 8 Minutes later -----

Also how is she to have a normal life. Her mind is like swiss cheese now. Lots of holes. Look at when she asked clark if he got hit by a car cause all she remembered was him standing in the street!. So does that mean everything else doesn't make sense. Why would she be working at Isis now if it wasn't for the fact she got fired by lex because of clark secret and she also lost a lot of her journalistic passion because she was busy helping clark with the phantoms. Is that all holes also now? Is the justice league wiped out of her mind too? I can go on and on and it just boggles my mind trying to figure out who she is now. because she grew into the character she is from her life experiences.. so now she has to be a different person. Does she even know she had a meteor ability? After all they figured that out together using clarks powers (heat vision tracking device) among other abilities.

[AndiGirl]

I'm absolutely devestated by this.
I think it's completely ridiculous that people feel Chloe has to forget Clarks secret to stay true to the mythos. Who says everything has to be according to the myths? We're getting Clark in the DP....he and Lois are developing feelings for eachother, heck...even Clark and Jimmy are becoming friends. Why.....just why does Chloe have to forget?

I understand some think she acts as a crutch to clark, but she's proven thats not the case this season. He's doing it on his own...and I'm incredibly proud of him for that.

The fact that not half an hour earlier Chloe told Clark she would never give up any of the times she's had while knowing his secret. That he has truly made her life worth living. Then he goes ahead and does it any way! I know he was trying to protect her...but something tells me he just made it worse.

Then, it was obvious from the last scene between Chloe and clark that a major foundation of their friendship was the secret that they shared.

So not only did he take away her knowledge of his powers...but I'm afraid they will slowly grow apart. Clark is going to "let her go..."

Basically...if they dont restore her memories...the character of Chloe will be a complete waste. 8 years of building her up to end it like this...not right.
I just dont know what to think, it was wrong on so many levels. :(

[Iluvgreen]

We need to hold on to the memories, and keep them safe for her, so that she can get them back someday.

[Forever Lex]

I knew this would happen.... the Chloe forgetting Clark's secret, etc. (because I'm a slut for the spoilers!!!) and I liked the way the writers did it. Chloe was definitely going to die or at least fall into a veggie state because Brainiac was ripping her mind to shreds. She FORGOT who Jimmy WAS! She forgot who CLARK was. She forgot practically everything that made her CHLOE. Clark did a very selfless, very SUPERMANISH thing by having Jor-El restore her memories of all but his secret & Krypton. He had to make that "lonely at the top" decision to lose a confidante! How hard is that? He didn't do it for himself - he did it for her - against her wishes, yes, but she was probably going to die by brain over-load if he hadn't done it.

Besides, I don't think it's permanent... one way or another, I think Chloe will either remember again, or Clark will tell her, or she will find out like she found out the first time... by seeing him in action. :D

So far, I am really loving this season! (except for no Lex! waaaahhhh I miss Lex! :( ) - much better than the last 3 seasons... I got so sick of Clark & Lana lovey-dovey/break up/make up "must-save-Lana" bullspit .... ICK.

And really... for all you who keep doing the deep comparison of Smallville with the comics or any other Superman tv show or movie... get a grip. It's NOT the same thing, y'all! Same story... way different way of telling it! ;)

[Forever_Chlark]

:-(

[dimeo782002]

they only did this so they could make another relationship more believeable. and as far as im concerned they can have the show. im done with it and im tired of reading how clark is now superman because chloe no longer knows his secret ? that is just rude and wrong . also an out right lie how deos chloe losing hissecret make him superman ? oh yeah so the iconic women of all women can take over oops forgot.

[BWOracle]

So Clark makes the ultimate sacrifice...risk being alone for the safety of his best friend...but he gets raked over the coals.

Chris Reeve's Superman does the exact same thing to Lois Lane in Superman 2 and nary a peep.

[MOD EDIT]

[Bella882]

She lost four years worth of experiences that have DIRECTLY SHAPED THE WOMAN SHE IS...err..."was" prior to this mess with Brianiac.

To remove such a vital and crucial element in her mind, is ludicrous when watching her stepford like persona Post Artic, but ever more obvious then after the wtf lobotomy Clark gave her at the FOS.

This takes her mind right back to Season four. Or it should anyway. Being curious about Clark Kent came straight to mind.

But this a reboot season, so I don't see the heads even bothering to tackle on the plothole they dug themselves in.

Otherwise, how can she reason her current lifestyle without Clark's secret filling in the crucial blanks in her life today?

*Why she isn't aspiring to being a reporter and working at the Daily Planet
*Why does she work at Isis for the Meteor Infected
*Her own storyarc involving her own Meteor Powers (does she still have them?)
*The whole Jimmy deal, and not to mention Davis being a dark flip of the coin to Clark (hence, why by her own admission it was easy with him like it was with Clark)
*Her views on the Luthors today?


And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Mountain landfill size plot holes when it comes to her psyche at this point. Brush off if there ever was one.

If they were soo adamant into following mytho continuity from the word go, (as questionable as it is now), and using this act as the scape goat to push Chloe aside so Clark could step on his own and move freely onto to "X", they should of saved us the trouble and killed Chloe off at the end of Vessel, and allowed her character to go out with her dignity, pride, and her story arc in landing her dream at the Planet to a close.

Then again, looking at Lionel and Lex's departure and the conclusion of their story arc's I should of known better.

[rconner]

I don't think Chloe's memory will be 4 good. Unless Clark warns Pete, Oliver, Lana, Martha about the memory reboot. Even if Clark takes care of that, there is the Isis foundation, with what was seen in the beginning of Abyss, what did Chloe have written down on Clark there. I don't think it will be 4 good.

[dimeo782002]

So Clark makes the ultimate sacrifice...risk being alone for the safety of his best friend...but he gets raked over the coals.

Chris Reeve's Superman does the exact same thing to Lois Lane in Superman 2 and nary a peep.

[MOD EDIT]

first of all your not allowed to call other fans delusional. there is a difference between hoping and thinking someone will get together. i was hoping but realized after season six it would not happen but was still very happy with the friendship.

I had a problem with chris reeves supes mind wiping lois in supes two cause i actually liked her . i love margot kidders lois because we met her when we were supposed to meet her. not before. and she was funny but yet not as belittleing and i never felt she was annoying at all.

to each there own we are allowed to our opinions here but we are not allowed to bash other shippers. or call them delusional and chloe and clarks relationship is far from delusional ! if it was a delusion then why make abyss ? to erase it so another will be believavble. because it was real not delusion . maybe there was no sex but there was love . a platonic love that was very strong but hey you all got what you wanted so whats the problem ?

[ClarksGal]

I had mixed feelings about what Clark did. I do feel sad...the Chloe moments from Arrival and Pariah were so beautiful and special, the best of all the reveals. It's sad to think that Chloe might have forgotten them.

But just because Chloe doesn't have those memories anymore doesn't mean that it didn't happen. This is not like Promise, where the past was reversed. Clark still remembers. The past still happened. It's just that it no longer has to affect Chloe's future.

The truth is that ever since Chloe found out Clark's secret, she has given up her own life for his. She has become more and more intwined in his life, culminating in being taken over by a Kryptonian Supercomputer. Being Clark's BFF is dangerous. Like Clark said, EVERYONE else who has known his secret has left or died. Clark feels responsible for Chloe not being the carefree super happy person that she was in Apocalypse. He had an opportunity to try and correct the situation, and he took it. I don't for a second believe that Clark made that decision lightly.

Would Chloe be angry with him if she knew? Surely. Was it "rape"? Absolutely not. What he did to her does not hurt her. He did it to protect her, for the same reason he didn't want Jimmy to find out his secret, or anyone else for that matter. It may not have been the choice that Chloe would have made, but Clark made the choice to protect her, just like he will have to make a lot of choices about right and wrong and balancing his own power against the needs and wishes of others.

I'm interested to see where PS3 are going with this though. Are they truly phasing Chloe out of Clark's life? Are they simply working to make Clark totally alone? Will Chloe's memories ever be restored? Is Brainiac still in Chloe at all, or did he totally leak into FOS 2.0? If Brainiac is still there, then Chloe's memories (and everything else) are still in danger, so it's likely that the mindwipe will be temporary.

[Poyntz]

Superman might of erased Lois in Superman 2 but not after 4 years of her developing her character.

Also I understand why he did it but he was wrong IMHO. She is probably in more danger now then she was before. People were in danger just knowing him not only cause they knew his secret.

I'm a Chlark Fan but I'm not upset cause i thought they would be together. I knew they wouldn't be and was happy with their friendship. But in my mind this effects big them the dynamics of their friendship and her personality.

[Forever_Chlark]

clarksgal i thing you're wrong. I think chloe would be upset. He had no right to do that. He took away a part of her life. She told him that finding out his secret was the best thing that ever happenend to him so he made a mistake

[Timester]

*Why she isn't aspiring to being a reporter and working at the Daily Planet
*Why does she work at Isis for the Meteor Infected
*Her own storyarc involving her own Meteor Powers (does she still have them?)
*The whole Jimmy deal, and not to mention Davis being a dark flip of the coin to Clark (hence, why by her own admission it was easy with him like it was with Clark)
*Her views on the Luthors today?

She only forgot Clark's secret, not everything else.

Chloe is NOT defined by Clark's secret. Can't understand how "Chloe" fans can say that about her or support it.

[Kevin24]

Chloe is NOT defined by Clark's secret. Can't understand how "Chloe" fans can say that about her or support it.

Truer words have never been spoken;)

[faz]

Sorry if this has already been said, I'm sure it has, but I didn't feel like reading through 14 pages of posts since most of what I saw wasn't positive. I'd hold off on the negativity - if PS3 really intends on keeping Chloe out of the loop, they've dug themselves a GIGANTIC hole, since so much of what's happened to Chloe in the past 4 season's has been a result of her knowledge of Clark. I'm fairly confidant that her memory is going to come back in full sooner or later (hopefully sooner, but if not, so be it). It's just not a practical plan to completely mind-wipe her. When Lana returns, for example, is it even remotely possible that Clark won't make his way into the topic of their discussion? And she still knows about everyone in the JL, can they really hide his identity from her? I have a little more faith in the new producers than that, since I've on the whole been pretty happy with the new direction they've taken with the show, and I feel like this is too big a blunder for them when they've done such a good job with everything else.

[Kevin24]

Come on guys. I am confident that she will know his secert before the end of the season. In the promos for season 8 she is heard saying to Clark " there is something out there Clark and it can kill you"

She hasn't said that yet. So that means that she will say it later on :)

[All about Clark]

I don't see the practical side of this. Chloe's actions and memories for the last few years have been dedicated to helping Clark. Removing every memory connected with Kal-el would essentially be erasing 3 years of her life. That's just too inconceivable. I could understand if she only knew a very short time, but we're talking years off of Chloe's life and memories. If you subtract those, the only things left are her written articles at the Planet and Jimmy. I know I would feel horribly empty missing so much. Not to mention that she just got done telling Clark how important it was for her to be helping the world. Now all that she's stood for is lost.

[Jade4813]

I don't know about that, All about Clark. I think they said that in those promos, all that footage came from the first four episodes because that's all that had been filmed to that point.

I think if she hasn't said it by now, they may have just cut the line.

[faz]

There is no practical side, that's the point. It wouldn't make any sense for her to forget everything and for Clark and everyone else to just pretend that the last 4 years hadn't happened. Sooner or later she's going to realize something's up, especially when people keep bringing up Clark in regular conversation (which in the real world would definitely happen, but then again, this is a TV show, and life does not always imitate art). But eventually she's going to have to realize that something's up if they want to take this seriously.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


I think if she hasn't said it by now, they may have just cut the line.

Definitely true. It's not like we haven't seen them cut scenes from the episode that were in the trailers before.

[Kevin24]

Well either way I am still pretty sure she will remember or have Clark tell her his secret on his terms.

As of right now Clark thinks all is well with the world (Chloe's world) because Brainiac is gone and she isn't in danger anymore. Little does he know that Doomsday has his eye on her and he has to protect her.

I think it was foreshadowed last week with his conversation with Kara. That his friends are in as much danger not knowing his secret as they are knowing his secret. I think it goes for both Lois and Chloe now.

[sithius]

She'll get her memories back, imo at least.

Why?

Because she killed someone. That was a huge step, and we still haven't found out why. I mean, it was apparently to keep Clark's secret, but it's still incredibly out of character. Was that the real reason? Was it even the real Chloe?

Not the last we've seen of her and Clark's secret I think. :)

[gkl73]

Did I miss something? Is a Playstation 3 now writing the show? A lot of people are pretty mad at this Playstation 3 that is now apparently writing the show.

[Vindellavon]

I hope she regains the lost memories.

[Kevin24]

Did I miss something? Is a Playstation 3 now writing the show? A lot of people are pretty mad at this Playstation 3 that is now apparently writing the show.

:rotfl: that is what I always think of when I see PS3

[Vindellavon]

^ Me too!

[Diego*Chloe]

Come on guys. I am confident that she will know his secert before the end of the season. In the promos for season 8 she is heard saying to Clark " there is something out there Clark and it can kill you"

She hasn't said that yet. So that means that she will say it later on :)


She was suposed to say that in Prey:\

[Vindellavon]

Keep your eyes open for upcoming spoilers we're most likely to recieve during the hiatus. She'll be back, she has to.There's no one out there besides mommy dearest who understands Clark Kent like Chloe Sullivan.

[Kevin24]

Yeah, true but I still believe that she will know Clark's secret before the end of the Season.

Although, Chloe did look and act like her old self after her memory of Clark's secret was erased. She reminded me of old school Chloe from earlier years.

[Vindellavon]

True. Hopefully after this whole thing blows over, Clark finally gets it through his head that mindrape is truly NEVER the answer to anything.

[umm]

Yeah it those feel like a waste of 4 years!! all the crap clark n chloe went through and to have chloe just forget about it is too much PS3. :mad:they better fix this shizz soon.

I have no doubt that this storyarc will continue, whether it will be to our satisfaction, and by that I mean those who liked Chloe knowing Clark's secret, is another matter, but if they leave it as it is, well they might as well shot Chloe and bury her fife feet under! Cause this is one h... of a character assassination!

[TWNik]

Chloe & Clark's relationship is the heart & soul of Smallville. It gives the show it's foundation of credibility.

Yes, taking away her memory was a wrong choice for Clark, & spoilers prove it.

[Timester]

Chloe & Clark's relationship is the heart & soul of Smallville. It gives the show it's foundation of credibility.

Yes, taking away her memory was a wrong choice for Clark, & spoilers prove it.

That sounds oddly like a Clana fan would say in past Smallville, related to Clana, of course.

Clark and Clark only is the heart and soul of Smallville.

[Mr.Magic]

Clark and Clark only is the heart and soul of Smallville.

Only when he isn't acting like a BDA, as he did in Abyss.

[Kalista]

Clark and Clark only is the heart and soul of Smallville.


Clark, Lex, Lana, and Chloe are the heart of SV.

[Kal el of krypton]

It's pretty obvious this had to happen because one day he will become superman but i was hoping for this to happen later on and not too early especially if we have another season. But i guess they had the chance to wipe out her mind now. Such a beautiful episode though :D

[unfocused]

Clark is the only heart of Smallville. Everything else is there solely for silly shippers.

[theartist27]

Well, since Lex and Lana are no longer a part of Smallville, I'm going to have to go with Clark being the heart and soul of Smallville. Always has been, always will be. :)

[baltazor]

If Chloe was to forget about Clark it was a pretty descent way to do so. Anyway too many people have learned Clark's secret and as we approach the day Clark becomes superman it is understandable why TPTB would want to converge with the mythos.
Moreover it was very superman-like of Clark to prefer "loosing" his best and most trusted friend for her own protection...

[jasonc46]

Im sooo ****iin saadd..!! i cry a lot..!! im upset..!! is totally unfair 4 years losst..!! GOOOD..:(:(:mad::mad::confused::confused:

[Karafan1]

When Chloe 1st saw Jimmy again it was when she was looking at kryptonian symblos in the Daily Planet in "Zod". So if she doesn't know the truth about Clark, what would she remember as her 1st time of seeing Jimmy again??

[AndiGirl]

She only forgot Clark's secret, not everything else.

Chloe is NOT defined by Clark's secret. Can't understand how "Chloe" fans can say that about her or support it.

Her life isn't defined by Clark....thats true. Her place in Smallville however....yes, it very much is. Which Is why I personally am not thrilled about this. We know The brainiac problem will be resolved rather quickly. ..and then what? Chloe twiddles her thumbs for the last 8 episodes?

It cant be said that Chloe and Clarks relationship didnt change drastically when she discovered his secret. They almost became twice as close. It's just going to be sad to see them lose that. 8 years of friendship building to be dropped.

I understand this may not be the end of the matter and PS3 has something up their sleeves...but I think it's a very reasonable response for Chloe fans to be upset. It's not looking good for our girl. They wont keep on a character that no longer serves a purpose in the superman story line :\

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


If Chloe was to forget about Clark it was a pretty descent way to do so. Anyway too many people have learned Clark's secret and as we approach the day Clark becomes superman it is understandable why TPTB would want to converge with the mythos.
Moreover it was very superman-like of Clark to prefer "loosing" his best and most trusted friend for her own protection...

I can agree with that. Clark is being selfless in letting her go....but it irritates me that she didnt want to be let go.

I think I wouldnt have half the problem I did with this scene if not 30 minutes earlier Chloe hadnt told clark how knowing his secret has made her life better. Its like the writers want to make it perfectly clear that this isnt what chloe wanted at all...

Who knows...maybe thats the point?

[OutlawAdamKnight]

Andi I think you and many others are taking this too much to heart in a negative light. This is a heartwrenching plot device, but in many ways a fairly interesting one. Who says it even really worked? How is it going to play out? We have 13 more episodes for this season to validate this choice. I have renewed faith in this show and I need to see where it is going

[Chlollie]

Clark doing this to Chloe, later I think its going to kick Clark it the but. I think Chloe is going to get her memory back about Clark, and she isn't going to be happy with him.

[AndiGirl]

Andi I think you and many others are taking this too much to heart in a negative light. This is a heartwrenching plot device, but in many ways a fairly interesting one. Who says it even really worked? How is it going to play out? We have 13 more episodes for this season to validate this choice. I have renewed faith in this show and I need to see where it is going

Oh...I'm fully willing to see where this goes. I'm ready! :lol:
I am very excited to see where the brainiac/dooms plot is headed. But speaking as a Chloe fan as well as a superman fan...it was a very hard blow. I dont know if the way it played out bothers me...or so many people telling me I should be thrilled about it.

So yea...its a bit hard for us to see 8 years of friendship could potentially be down the tubes. Will I give PS3 the benefit of the doubt, absolutely. :)

You'll have to forgive me..I'm just an emotional girl by nature! :lol: I'm sure after I've had a day to process this it wont seem nearly as tragic.

[President_Luthor]

The whole Brainiac connection with Chloe is one of the more intriguing story arcs (that's including the related Davis angle) and I thought it was an inventive way of dealing with Clark and the odds of having a credible 'secret identity' by series' end. If it really is the end of Chloe having knowledge of The Secret, then only Pete and Lana (and of course, Lex!) would be among the only people in town who now know about it -- not including Phantom Zone/continuity loophole candidates like Prof. Willowbrook, nameless LuthorCorp. security/personnel etc. We don't know if it's permanent or temporary memory loss, so I am curious about where they're going with this.

Clark's not-so-secret identity has been stretching the limits of credibility over the past seven seasons, where it would be almost impossible for him to actually claim one. Chloe did know the most about his secret, and would be an obvious target for any future foe of Superman. Her losing knowledge of The Secret may actually prolong her shelf life in the long run. If it is permanent, it would fit in with the idea of a true friend making a great sacrifice. The fact that Clark did have her unwavering confidence all that time has helped him to mature into a better hero, and for that Clark will always be in Chloe's debt - memory loss or not.

[BOUROUX]

i believe that later in the season Chloe will recover those memories and for one specific reason.If Chloe loses these memories permanantly it will degrade the previous 4 seasons.

[piment]

so I wrote this earlier in another thread:
Really you all think that Clark did the right thing for Chloe?
You think he made a "superman" like decision?
Because the way that I see it he made a very high school Clark decission.
What is this girl, whom he admitted is in danger from brainiac, going to do for protection now?

It's not going to be lets scream Clarks name and in a flash he'll be here by my side.
No, it's going to be run away like an idiot get caught and probably killed.
How could this be a superman like decision?
Oh he thinks he's protecting her? He feels like he's giving up his best friend for her own good and so he supes now?

God I wish Martha or Jonathon were still around because they sure as hell would have pointed out the vulnerable situation Clark has now put Chloe in.

And what about Chloe, what is this girl going to do with herself now? Fraulic around Jimmy Olsen from 9-5? How is she going to be relating to the meteor infected if she isn't one herself? IF Jor-El has successfully swiped Chloe's mind of all of her Knowlegable experiences with the good/I didn't ask to be this way "Meteor Infected" isnt she now going to morph back into the person that referred to them as Meteor FREAKS? She doesn't know that there are those that do good with their powers, because now she's never been around any of them. Think about it every good instance that Chloe has had with someone with abilities has been taken from her because they occured when she knew about Clarks abilities and he used his powers around her or them or both.

The only memories she has now of the infected are negative well except for Ryan and that's not going to be pleasant either because...I could be wronge here...but didn't Chloe know Clarks secret the second go around with Ryan?

This Krypton free Chloe knows nothing of who she is now because she isn't that woman anymore.Most of this characters positive evolution occured once she learned of Clarks powers.

WHO IS SHE NOW? Who is this girl nay this husk of the girl we all...well the smart viewers anyway...love and adore?

This will not end well for our girl people...I just can't see how it will.
I'm just so dissapointed with Clark.
Screw the writers they have been making poor character moves for eight years i'm really not that surprised anymore.

But you clark...I've come to expect more. And when/if Chloe gets her mind back I really hope you get the nuclear winter shoulder.

and I still feel this way but something just occured to me. Chloe is the same Chloe we all managed to fall for back when she was a little out of the Krypto-loop. So perhaps even with that tumor known as Jimmy Olsen we will fall for her all over again. I have to have some type of faith in this character because I've been doing so for almost a decade...wow a decade that's so crazy...and I feel like we kind of owe her the benefit of the doubt.

and another thing I just thought of, what if Chlo regained her memory and was just so disgusted with Clark that she played dumb? Wouldn't that be interesting, messing with Clark all over again.
BDA

[Nerial]

I feel for the Chloe fans. Even when I was watching this episode (which I liked), I definitely felt that sting when all her "alien Clark" memories were wiped clean.

Personally, I think this move is very Superman-ish; sometimes, he can be an all-heart, too-noble-for-his-own-good idiot. But, even if I feel that Chloe's memories being taken from her is unfair, I still feel that he had a good reason to do it. I'm not not sure if Chloe being alien-ignorant will keep her any safer, but at least Clark is trying. He does this type of crap in the comics and movies as well. Look at the "forget me" kiss of Superman II; on that note, however, that kiss idea really sucked. Ruined the movies. Hum...

Overall, I don't know how this will play out for Clark and Chloe. Most of their friendship over the last few years has been based on her knowledge of who he truly is. Now, so much of that is gone. It makes me a little sad, so I'm divided on whether or not this was a good move.

Maybe she'll get her memories back; maybe she'll slap Clark in the face for removing them. Maybe not. I guess we'll have to see.

[davidbrenton]

This episode, and AM's decision to approach the effect of losing 4 yrs of experiences surrounding Clark's secret has proven to me that all actions prior to this episode this season were absolutely 100% Chloe.

The producers purposefully threw out the question: Who is in control of Chloe's actions? to get the audience involved in the character analysis they themselves set out to dissect. All of Chloe's past experiences came to a clear growth spurt at season 8 premiere and remained so throughout ep 8. They purposefully chose Chloe displaying questionable moral actions earlier this season to clearly demonstrate exactly who Chloe was, what her set of beliefs were, and how they had changed from past seasons as she matured into a self possessed, confident woman with a sense of purpose and inherent moral obligation toward sacrificing anyone--who display's vengence or threat against the World's Hero.

As all of her experiences that caused that growth were clearly demonstrated to be linked with the knowledge of Clark's secret and the power that had in her maturity and life experience. With those experiences erased, the character no longer reflected the fully-grown, mature, confident Chloe we'd seen this season. Instead, she was suddenly care-free, happy, and innocent. The actress chose to play Chloe as a purely good person without the vindication and self-confidence that comes with self-knowledge that she's obtained as an indirect result of knowing Clark's secret.

Now compare this to Lana's behavior after learning Clark's secret and you can clearly see the difference in the moral quality between the two characters.

I don't know, I'm in a franetic analysis mode. All I can say is, I really enjoy what the writers did this season. IT'S BRAIN CANDY!!!

Thanks PS3.

[MBrittan]

What an absolutely HORRENDOUS decision. If they were going to do this, they should have done it a looooong time ago. Maybe 2-3 episodes after she found out. FOUR YEARS LATER?!!? The person who said that they've effectively "erased" the last four years is correct. The show is NOT going to be the same without Chloe knowing. She's the one person he COULD confide in. How deep does this go? Is knowledge of the Justice League gone too? Does she no longer work at the Isis foundation, assisting the meteor infected? Will she go BACK on the trail of uncovering Clark's secret? Is the wall of weird coming back now that she won't have the "guilt" associated with one of her friends being on of them? Will this spark her interest in reporting again? This seems like a HUGE step backward for the show. If they didn't want the "baggage" of having Chloe know Clark's secret, they should have just killed her off. I could have lived with that A LOT easier. It would have been sad, but it would have made more sense.
-M-

[President_Luthor]

Clark's 'secret identity' -- and the possibility of even having one -- was the big question hanging over the past several seasons, and IMHO it was an issue that was not going to go away. They've had his secret doled out in drips and drops over several seasons, where not only Pete, Chloe, Lana and Lex eventually learned about it but other SV characters at various levels. It was getting to the point where Lex could have quite easily strung together all the half-truths, partial secret revelations and unravelled mysteries from the various witnesses and pieced it together on his own. Heck, Lana practically knew 80% of it in S7 until Clark filled in the other 20% when he had run out of lying room.

Again, we don't know if Chloe's memory loss is permanent -- but if it is, I suspect that it's a case of giving them an out if S8 is the last season. It depends on how it plays out. I don't think it's in the same category as the multiple quickie amnesia moments that prevented Lana, Lex and others from discovering his secret too soon. TPTB opened the door re: Clark's Secret and others' knowledge of it, so the issue of his secret identity was unavoidable and this could be their 'fix' for it. Portions of his secret have been leaking out for years, so (at least on SV) it's not information that's exclusive to Pete, Lana and Lex.

[skully]

Man, this has to be one of the most polarizing story arcs ever. Half the fans seem to really hate the idea of Chloe no longer remembering Clark's powers, and the other half love the idea.

I am happy to wait and see. Maybe the BDA is no more. :D

If nothing else, PS3 have stirred a heap of interest. :)

[mistaguitarmasta]

At first I was disappointed because thought I used to hate that Chloe knew his secret, I've grown attached to the idea. After watching the episode a second time, I can appreciate it more. Now, I see it as their way of getting around the problem of Chloe not being part of the traditional mythos. Rather than solve it by killing her, they opted to keep her alive and put her back to "normal." Halfway through the episode, I thought she would be rid of BrainIAC and get her healing power back, which she would then use to heal Clark and sacrifice her life. I like it better if she stays alive.

[Becc]

I keep reading that this is a way to resolve Chloe not being part of the traditional mythos- people are parroting that same line one after another. How about we then solve all the other problems Smallville has created while diverging from the "mythos" like the early introduction of Lois Lane, Lex and Clark meeting and becoming friends in Smallville, Lex discovering Clark's secret, and most of all Clark Kent working at the Daily Planet before his alter ego "superman" has been created. I fail to see why no one else brings up these obstacles to the traditional storyline and everything seems to fall on the character of Chloe and the need for her to be gone or mind raped before Clark can "fully embrace his destiny".

----- Added 41 Seconds later -----

Okay I must say I feel slightly better after my little rant.

[FlashInSV]

We need to hold on to the memories, and keep them safe for her, so that she can get them back someday.


That is the single sweetest thought in this forum!!! ;)
Thank you! And I hope with all my heart it comes out true! :D

[Lonnie]

Chloe finding out about Clark was the best thing that ever happend to this show! And now the worst has happend :( To be Chloe & Clark and their friendship is the whole foundation of the show and it will never be the same if she doesn't get her memories back. Like so many people have said... it's like the last 4 years just went down the drain... I mean wtf?? :(

Please has anyone heard anything about when (if) Chloe gets her memories back? I can't find any spoilers for it, which worries me even more...

[Becc]

Please has anyone heard anything about when (if) Chloe gets her memories back? I can't find any spoilers for it, which worries me even more...

I know that's what's really worrying me.

[umm]

The reason they were so close was becase she knew his secreet, and now that that's gone, what exactly do they have? I am not saying they still aren't bestfriends, but it is not the same, not by a long shot! I really hope this isn't permanent, and it shouldn't be, at least as far as Brainiac Chloe and Davis storyarc are concerned! Not if you go by the spoilers, and if anything Clark just made a mess of things by erasing her memories of everything connected to his secret!

[Kalista]

Please has anyone heard anything about when (if) Chloe gets her memories back? I can't find any spoilers for it, which worries me even more...

I think there is a spoiler out there that indicates Chloe will have her memories back because she helps Clark helps Clark go undercover in 8.12.

[Lonnie]

I think there is a spoiler out there that indicates Chloe will have her memories back because she helps Clark helps Clark go undercover in 8.12.
Well that is always something, thank you. Altho she could help him without knowing... but *keep hopes up*

I love your avatar btw!


The reason they were so close was becase she knew his secreet, and now that that's gone, what exactly do they have? I am not saying they still aren't bestfriends, but it is not the same, not by a long shot! I really hope this isn't permanent, and it shouldn't be, at least as far as Brainiac Chloe and Davis storyarc are concerned! Not if you go by the spoilers, and if anything Clark just made a mess of things by erasing her memories of everything connected to his secret!
That's exactly what I'm thinking. I just hope he realizes what a terrible mistake he did and fix it - soon.

[krpto]

I think there is a spoiler out there that indicates Chloe will have her memories back because she helps Clark helps Clark go undercover in 8.12.
And that's the problem with chloe knowing the secret clark goes to her for everything kryptonian I for one hope we don't have chloe regain the memorys and clark for once has to be the hero without using chloe to find out information and save the day.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Abyss made me as angry if not angrier than the end of Superman 2, in which Lois is made to forget. I will explain why.

1. It is an insult to women. Like we can't decide for ourselves what is best for us? Like we can't make our own decisions about our own life without a man coming in and saying 'nah, your wrong, your going to do what i want'. It's disgusting behaviour from Clark.

2. It is mind rape. It is stripping someone of their personality, important parts of their life. We aren't just talking about certain moments, we are talking about every single thought she ever had about Clark's powers in the past 4 years being taken away.

3. It is not the way i want to think of Superman. He is not supposed to ABUSE POWER like that. He is supposed to respect humans and never interfere with natural things like this.

4. His best friend?! He just makes that decision for her? I could just slap him. I really really want to slap him. If i were Chloe, i would never forgive him for that... ever

In fact, i once wrote a fanfiction in which Clark made Chloe forget her feelings for him so that she wouldnt get hurt. she didn't forgive him. :lol:

[Myrddin]

Truth is - I could argue that is what right - and a good move for the show.

I acould also argue that it was wrong - and a bad move for the show.

Either way - I doubt that it will last. By season end she will know that truth again.

[cotton candy girl]

By season end she will know that truth again.

I'm not so sure about that. I think it had to be done because Chloe knowing the secret and Lois not yet knowing would create problems down the road for iconic Lois and Clark, imo; especially with Chloe being Lois's cousin. I'm not sure that's why they erased Chloe's memory of Clark's secret, but it could be part of it.

[cousteau]

Truth is - I could argue that is what right - and a good move for the show.

I acould also argue that it was wrong - and a bad move for the show.

Either way - I doubt that it will last. By season end she will know that truth again.

Nope. That'll be it, and it should be it. All the superhero movies make the same elqouent point - when you put on a suit, your enemies will go for your strength and your only weakness - the friends and family you care about most. Chloe not knowing clark's secret ensures that she'll have a full and happy life.

[Hopefulsuicide]

why does her not knowing clark's secret mean she will be safe from attack? she is still his best friend and will always be in harm's way, all that her knowing the secret means is that she is slightly safer because she knows about all the things that go bump in the night

[Vindellavon]

Nope. That'll be it, and it should be it. All the superhero movies make the same elqouent point - when you put on a suit, your enemies will go for your strength and your only weakness - the friends and family you care about most. Chloe not knowing clark's secret ensures that she'll have a full and happy life.

She killed a man, whether it be Chloiac, Brainiac, or just plain old Chloe. Clark can't keep the secret hidden for long, eventually someone's going to figure out the truth and ask for answers. And if Chloe can't give any answers, she's going to fall hard and it's all going to be Clark's fault. I don't think TBTB would just have her kill and then mindraped for no reason. The secret will be revealed again, and both Chloe nd Clark will have some explaining to do.

[cousteau]

It leaves him vulnerable becky, you only have to read the latest comics where lana's been working for lexcorps to see what I mean.


She killed a man, whether it be Chloiac, Brainiac, or just plain old Chloe. Clark can't keep the secret hidden for long, eventually someone's going to figure out the truth and ask for answers. And if Chloe can't give any answers, she's going to fall hard and it's all going to be Clark's fault. I don't think TBTB would just have her kill and then mindraped for no reason. The secret will be revealed again, and both Chloe nd Clark will have some explaining to do.

Mindraped. a bit strong and melodramatic, don't you think?

[Hopefulsuicide]

It leaves him vulnerable becky, you only have to read the latest comics where lana's been working for lexcorps to see what I mean.



Mindraped. a bit strong and melodramatic, don't you think?

we were talking about Chloe's safety, and now your saying it leaves HIM vulnerable... color me confused

and i don't think mindraped is at all strong or melodramatic. if someone did that to me i would feel so entirely violated. it's truly inexcusable.

[Vindellavon]

Mindraped. a bit strong and melodramatic, don't you think?

Nope. Just about sums it up.

[Lonnie]

Abyss made me as angry if not angrier than the end of Superman 2, in which Lois is made to forget. I will explain why.

1. It is an insult to women. Like we can't decide for ourselves what is best for us? Like we can't make our own decisions about our own life without a man coming in and saying 'nah, your wrong, your going to do what i want'. It's disgusting behaviour from Clark.

2. It is mind rape. It is stripping someone of their personality, important parts of their life. We aren't just talking about certain moments, we are talking about every single thought she ever had about Clark's powers in the past 4 years being taken away.

3. It is not the way i want to think of Superman. He is not supposed to ABUSE POWER like that. He is supposed to respect humans and never interfere with natural things like this.

4. His best friend?! He just makes that decision for her? I could just slap him. I really really want to slap him. If i were Chloe, i would never forgive him for that... ever

In fact, i once wrote a fanfiction in which Clark made Chloe forget her feelings for him so that she wouldnt get hurt. she didn't forgive him. :lol:
Wow great post! I totally agree with everything you said.

(And yes please slap him from me too ;))


why does her not knowing clark's secret mean she will be safe from attack? she is still his best friend and will always be in harm's way, all that her knowing the secret means is that she is slightly safer because she knows about all the things that go bump in the night
Exactly. He's doing it to supposebly protect her, but he's really putting her in more danger, because now she doesn't know what she's involved it. Beacuse yes, she is, and always will be in harms way as long as she's around Clark. What's gonna happen when Braniac comes back? Or Doomsday?

[Hopefulsuicide]

Exactly. He's doing it to supposebly protect her, but he's really putting her in more danger, because now she doesn't know what she's involved it. Beacuse yes, she is, and always will be in harms way as long as she's around Clark. What's gonna happen when Braniac comes back? Or Doomsday?

totally agree. it's like putting a blindfold on someone before they go to war because you don't want them to see anything bad... it's insane logic

[Vindellavon]

totally agree. it's like putting a blindfold on someone before they go to war because you don't want them to see anything bad... it's insane logic

Becky, this is Clark Kent we're talking about. How many times in the history of Smallville has he constantly tried to "protect" someone, only to have ruined their lives? Clark kent does not learn,nor will he ever learn. look at the Superman in trianing TBTB and PS3 have created. :(

[Hopefulsuicide]

that's exactly why i think Smallville has ruined Clark Kent's good name

if Dean Cain's Clark met Tom Welling's Clark he'd be so utterly shocked... they would not be friends, they would barely even be on the same side...

[Lonnie]

totally agree. it's like putting a blindfold on someone before they go to war because you don't want them to see anything bad... it's insane logic
*nods* it makes no sense

[cousteau]

we were talking about Chloe's safety, and now your saying it leaves HIM vulnerable... color me confused

and i don't think mindraped is at all strong or melodramatic. if someone did that to me i would feel so entirely violated. it's truly inexcusable.

because there are a few factors here. Chloe knowing clark's secret has made things way more complicated than they needed to be - had she not known about clark's secret, half the things that had happened to her wouldn't have happened, and while there's no hint of chloe knowing there's something about clark, she isn't put in the line of fire. How often has she had to put on a deer in the headlights look every time she's been asked a direct question about clark?

I still think mindrape is way too etreme a phrasing. I'd make the same call personally.


Becky, this is Clark Kent we're talking about. How many times in the history of Smallville has he constantly tried to "protect" someone, only to have ruined their lives? Clark kent does not learn,nor will he ever learn. look at the Superman in trianing TBTB and PS3 have created. :(

Alred Gough and Mark Millar have been responsible for single handedly destroying the credibility of any franchises they've touched, starting with the lethal weapon franchise, and ending with smallville - do you really have a problem with the new staff writing things out to minimise the damage? I think personally they're writing a much more compelling story, as I don't honestly think chloe has been all that relevant a character since season 1 anyway - certainly not nearly as detestable as millar and gough made lana, but still...

[Hopefulsuicide]

where would you draw the line? at what point would it be immoral for him to keep doing things for people's own good without their consent?

yes, she has been in the line of fire a lot, but she was before too. and whether or not she DOES know anything, people will still think she would because she's Clark's best friend

[cousteau]

where would you draw the line? at what point would it be immoral for him to keep doing things for people's own good without their consent?

yes, she has been in the line of fire a lot, but she was before too. and whether or not she DOES know anything, people will still think she would because she's Clark's best friend

But the fact is, her knowing his secret causes more issues. If you've been reading the comics, look at what's happened to lois of late! There's your proof!

[Lonnie]

because there are a few factors here. Chloe knowing clark's secret has made things way more complicated than they needed to be - had she not known about clark's secret, half the things that had happened to her wouldn't have happened, and while there's no hint of chloe knowing there's something about clark, she isn't put in the line of fire. How often has she had to put on a deer in the headlights look every time she's been asked a direct question about clark?

Had she not known about Clark she would have been dead many times over. How many times has he not saved her life because she's been able to call him?

And she would have gotten those questions regardless.

[Hopefulsuicide]

But the fact is, her knowing his secret causes more issues. If you've been reading the comics, look at what's happened to lois of late! There's your proof!

so your of the 'ends justify the means' way of thinking then...

...Superman isn't of that way of thinking i'm afraid, he's of the 'never do anything immoral, even if it does make life easier or safer' way of thinking

[Clarkgirl8]

Abyss made me as angry if not angrier than the end of Superman 2, in which Lois is made to forget. I will explain why.

1. It is an insult to women. Like we can't decide for ourselves what is best for us? Like we can't make our own decisions about our own life without a man coming in and saying 'nah, your wrong, your going to do what i want'. It's disgusting behaviour from Clark.

2. It is mind rape. It is stripping someone of their personality, important parts of their life. We aren't just talking about certain moments, we are talking about every single thought she ever had about Clark's powers in the past 4 years being taken away.

3. It is not the way i want to think of Superman. He is not supposed to ABUSE POWER like that. He is supposed to respect humans and never interfere with natural things like this.

4. His best friend?! He just makes that decision for her? I could just slap him. I really really want to slap him. If i were Chloe, i would never forgive him for that... ever

In fact, i once wrote a fanfiction in which Clark made Chloe forget her feelings for him so that she wouldnt get hurt. she didn't forgive him. :lol:

Agree. I'll slap Clark with ya! :lol: And I wanna read that fic :D

It doesn't matter if it is your secret, it's part of someone else's life and brought Chloe a bunch of stuff that had nothing to do with Clark. He shouldn't play God like that. Shame on you Clark.

Chloe was in danger before knowing, was in danger while knowing and will be in danger now too. And actually I think she'd be more safe knowing cause she'll know how to act and who to call.

[cousteau]

so your of the 'ends justify the means' way of thinking then...

...Superman isn't of that way of thinking i'm afraid, he's of the 'never do anything immoral, even if it does make life easier or safer' way of thinking

really. No occasions come to mind? Leaving a crater where a city used to be, for example?

[Hopefulsuicide]

you'll have to explain that one too me, as i haven't heard of it

[cousteau]

you'll have to explain that one too me, as i haven't heard of it

it's not relevant as smallville is concerned, but superman has done things that are extreme in order to preserve what he deemed to be the greater good.

[Hopefulsuicide]

yeah i understand that, but can you explain the example to me, or point me in the direction of the comic it came from

it is hard for me, because i have this view of Superman, but i guess it's kind of like the Bible, there are some bits that i won't take on board cause they don't seem right to me

:lol: i can't believe i just compared Superman with the bible

[cousteau]

you'll have to give me a while on that, but there is an issue where he levels a population.

[sailordom]

I almost don't know what to post.

My gut reaction? Wow, I really don't want this self-righteous guy who thinks he knows what's best for everyone becoming Superman. (I mean, isn't that Lex Luthor's gig?)

Because when people say they're doing things "for your own good," it generally means that they're doing something they 1.) know isn't right and 2.) that you wouldn't want. And generally, those things end up being the exact opposite of what you SHOULD have done in the first place.

Just as it bothered me when Clark took the list of Chloe's meteor-infected support group, it really bothered me to see Clark again take the attitude of "I have powers, therefore I know what's best."

Especially when it wasn't what's best. Knowing Clark's secret isn't what puts Chloe in danger -- heck, as a meteor freak, she'll always be in danger. Being Clark's friend is what "puts her in danger" if you're going to go down that path. Not knowing just puts her in more danger, because she doesn't know to be careful and who to call for help.

And while I know Smallville has always played fast and loose with the concepts of "plot" and "continuity" :D, I agree that this particular plot twist just goes too far. We're supposed to seriously believe that now Chloe doesn't remember anything about Clark or his abilities yet she doesn't notice that there are huge holes in her life?

Because this wipes out her work with Oliver and the rest of the "league," her getting fired from the Daily Planet, etc. I mean, how on earth will her involvement with Isis be explained?

I'm in the camp that tends to wish Smallville's writers and producers took some cues from comics. But bad, illogical retcons? Not the lesson I wanted them to learn.... :D

I'm OK with knowing that Smallville will never produce a comics-mythos Superman. This is their interpretation, and while I would actually like to see a nice live-action take on the character, I've made my peace with what Smallville is and is not. I may still grumble about how ridiculous it is that everyone in Metropolis already knows what Clark Kent sans-glasses looks like and that Jimmy Olsen is apparently the same age as Clark and the goofy "destiny" mythos Smallville's created, but the show has created it's own storylines and characters that I've enjoyed watching.

Here's to hoping Chloe's story this season is only beginning. Because if this was the payoff, then I'm really disappointed.

[TWLOVER03]

Abyss made me as angry if not angrier than the end of Superman 2, in which Lois is made to forget. I will explain why.

1. It is an insult to women. Like we can't decide for ourselves what is best for us? Like we can't make our own decisions about our own life without a man coming in and saying 'nah, your wrong, your going to do what i want'. It's disgusting behaviour from Clark.

2. It is mind rape. It is stripping someone of their personality, important parts of their life. We aren't just talking about certain moments, we are talking about every single thought she ever had about Clark's powers in the past 4 years being taken away.

3. It is not the way i want to think of Superman. He is not supposed to ABUSE POWER like that. He is supposed to respect humans and never interfere with natural things like this.

4. His best friend?! He just makes that decision for her? I could just slap him. I really really want to slap him. If i were Chloe, i would never forgive him for that... ever

In fact, i once wrote a fanfiction in which Clark made Chloe forget her feelings for him so that she wouldnt get hurt. she didn't forgive him. :lol:



AGREE.
oh and is there a link to that fic, I'd like to read it!

[umm]

Abyss made me as angry if not angrier than the end of Superman 2, in which Lois is made to forget. I will explain why.
1. It is an insult to women. Like we can't decide for ourselves what is best for us? Like we can't make our own decisions about our own life without a man coming in and saying 'nah, your wrong, your going to do what i want'. It's disgusting behaviour from Clark.
2. It is mind rape. It is stripping someone of their personality, important parts of their life. We aren't just talking about certain moments, we are talking about every single thought she ever had about Clark's powers in the past 4 years being taken away.
3. It is not the way i want to think of Superman. He is not supposed to ABUSE POWER like that. He is supposed to respect humans and never interfere with natural things like this.
4. His best friend?! He just makes that decision for her? I could just slap him. I really really want to slap him. If i were Chloe, i would never forgive him for that... ever
In fact, I once wrote a fanfiction in which Clark made Chloe forget her feelings for him so that she wouldnt get hurt. she didn't forgive him. :lol:

I agree, by doing what he did, his understanding of what true friendship really is, has become nonexistent, it's like five small steps, one giant step back with Clark! He does a few good things and one enormously stupid one! And has he thought about how Chloe will continue her life now that her identity is gone, and it is because memories are essentialy a persons identity, and now that he has soo stupidly made the decission to strip her of her own memories for 'her own good', everything he and we know and hold dear about Chloe is gone, h... Chloe is gone, she might as well be dead!

[cousteau]

Untrue. Clark's done a mindwipe thing before. Admittedly, it was in a subpar rendition of superman II, but there is still a precedent.

[umm]

[QUOTEI almost don't know what to post.

My gut reaction? Wow, I really don't want this self-righteous guy who thinks he knows what's best for everyone becoming Superman. (I mean, isn't that Lex Luthor's gig?)
Because when people say they're doing things "for your own good," it generally means that they're doing something they 1.) know isn't right and 2.) that you wouldn't want. And generally, those things end up being the exact opposite of what you SHOULD have done in the first place.
Just as it bothered me when Clark took the list of Chloe's meteor-infected support group, it really bothered me to see Clark again take the attitude of "I have powers, therefore I know what's best."
Especially when it wasn't what's best. Knowing Clark's secret isn't what puts Chloe in danger -- heck, as a meteor freak, she'll always be in danger. Being Clark's friend is what "puts her in danger" if you're going to go down that path. Not knowing just puts her in more danger, because she doesn't know to be careful and who to call for help.
And while I know Smallville has always played fast and loose with the concepts of "plot" and "continuity" :D, I agree that this particular plot twist just goes too far. We're supposed to seriously believe that now Chloe doesn't remember anything about Clark or his abilities yet she doesn't notice that there are huge holes in her life?
Because this wipes out her work with Oliver and the rest of the "league," her getting fired from the Daily Planet, etc. I mean, how on earth will her involvement with Isis be explained?
I'm in the camp that tends to wish Smallville's writers and producers took some cues from comics. But bad, illogical retcons? Not the lesson I wanted them to learn.... :D
I'm OK with knowing that Smallville will never produce a comics-mythos Superman. This is their interpretation, and while I would actually like to see a nice live-action take on the character, I've made my peace with what Smallville is and is not. I may still grumble about how ridiculous it is that everyone in Metropolis already knows what Clark Kent sans-glasses looks like and that Jimmy Olsen is apparently the same age as Clark and the goofy "destiny" mythos Smallville's created, but the show has created it's own storylines and characters that I've enjoyed watching.
Here's to hoping Chloe's story this season is only beginning. Because if this was the payoff, then I'm really disappointed.[/QUOTE]

Wow, for someone who didn't know what to post, you sure have posted a lot, almost a novel one could claim!:rotfl:
But on the serious note, you are completly right, and just to wrap it up, that selfrighteous attitude is gonna come back and bit our dear Clarky boy in the you know which bodypart, which for the sake of good culture and breading shall remain unnamed!

[michaelcox]

maybe it's still there buried in the back of her mind somewhere.
and how can she not remember the last 4 years?

For whatever its worth;

I don't think her memory was wiped. For what Jor-El told Clark, her memories were being changed into Kryptonian. He (Jor-El) reversed it, except the party of Clark's secret. So, when she had partially forgotten Clark, she remembered him in the street, but there was no car. Her memories seemed quite intacked.

So, if her memories are still there, she just needs somehow to activate them. And, I'm sure, something will trigger that. Her meteror power is the ability to heal others. Perhaps, the next time she heals someone, her powers will heal herself too...

[Poyntz]

What i dont like also is that Chloe told him she wouldn't trade knowing his secret for the world. Basically telling him that she loved knowing and didn't want that to change. She also warned him that going to jor -el could have consequences. Jorel even warned him that fixing chloe could be complicated and that they dont know how brainiac would impact things.
Still he went ahead with it and it seems his causing more problems (being that brainiac is taking over the fortress now) . This whole show was trying to teach Clark about consequences. And he doesn't seem to learn that lession.

(i just rewatched the episode again and those thoughts came to my mind).

----- Added 9 Minutes later -----

I also noticed a play in words when watching it again. His comments about Letting go reminds me of her letter in fever. Saying she was letting go for now and hoping he would fly back to her. 'hmmm

[Castro]

I dont like that chloe lose her memories.I hate that chloe lost the memory on the Clark powers. It is part of her existence. I can accept to forget some incident but everything about his secret, is a crime.

[Jaderoyale]

Actually, before Chloe knew Clarks secret she had an existance. And she still does.
To say thats practically bashing the character.

[President_Luthor]

The whole thing can be laid at Clark's feet. He was all too chummy with Milton Fine in S5, ready to listen to whatever he said with few moments of second-guessing -- while defying his father's harsh -but sound- advice. He ... does not ... seem to grasp fully the idea of consequences for his actions. He brought Chloe to the fortress, apparently not thinking that "hey, Brainiac's embedded in her, I should weigh my options carefully". Of course he wants to help Chloe -- but if it were happening to somebody else, it would have been Chloe herself who would have been that voice of sober second-thought. Chloe is faultless in this instance, since she has sacrificed far more for him than just about anyone, save for Jonathan (his life!) and Pete (family name, friendship etc.) and it wasn't her choice to lose her memory. The only caveat is that it was Clark -- of all people -- who did nudge her on occasion in earlier eps. about addressing the Brainiac-did-something-to-you issue ... and Chloe was taking a page from Clark's playbook and putting it off or ending discussion. That could be b/c of the Brainiac influence -- or a case of Chloe being uneasy about having Clark as the voice of reason in that case (Clark? Common sense?).

It could be some form of all-sweeping fix for a variety of Clark "issues", whether it's his lagging shuffle towards his destiny, his lack of initiative or just plain smarts, or the secret identity issue. I've also noticed this season that Oliver's flaws are more glaring, likely as another anvil-on-the-head reminder for Clark that he can't just run to Oliver for the Billionaire Quick Fix (Lex played this part in the early seasons). With the Chloe mind-wipe, he's being further isolated. It's building to a Brainiac - Doomsday convergence -- and Clark as usual can't see that F5 tornado coming :eek:.

The issue can be summarized in three letters: B. D. A. :rolleyes:

[Clarky123]

Ey none of us complained about when Lois forgott about his powers, thats like, 2 minutes of her life, POFF gone!


we have to accept that chloe is a still a important part of the series even if she doset know clarks big secret :P

[wolverine316]

The whole thing can be laid at Clark's feet. He was all too chummy with Milton Fine in S5, ready to listen to whatever he said with few moments of second-guessing -- while defying his father's harsh -but sound- advice. He ... does not ... seem to grasp fully the idea of consequences for his actions. He brought Chloe to the fortress, apparently not thinking that "hey, Brainiac's embedded in her, I should weigh my options carefully". Of course he wants to help Chloe -- but if it were happening to somebody else, it would have been Chloe herself who would have been that voice of sober second-thought. Chloe is faultless in this instance, since she has sacrificed far more for him than just about anyone, save for Jonathan (his life!) and Pete (family name, friendship etc.) and it wasn't her choice to lose her memory. The only caveat is that it was Clark -- of all people -- who did nudge her on occasion in earlier eps. about addressing the Brainiac-did-something-to-you issue ... and Chloe was taking a page from Clark's playbook and putting it off or ending discussion. That could be b/c of the Brainiac influence -- or a case of Chloe being uneasy about having Clark as the voice of reason in that case (Clark? Common sense?).

The issue can be summarized in three letters: B. D. A. :rolleyes:

Since you seem to have all the answers, I would like to know what you thought Clark should have done to remove Brainiac from Chloe? I would love to know what any of you would have done differently knowing you have an advanced and powerful A.I. that can pretty much do anything and you can use it to save someone you love no matter the danger. Would you rather Clark have killed Chloe for the greater good?

[yushwa]

I understand why Clark wouldn't want Chloe or other close friends to carry the burden of keeping his secret, to avoid being potential targets for his enemies. But what I don't understand is how is Chloe not knowing Clark's secret gonna keep her out of the clutches of danger?

Knowing Clark's secret didn't cause her to be targeted, then kidnapped by Lex twice. It was her abilities, as well as being Clark's best friend that caused her to get experimented on. Same applies for her recent encounter with Brainiac last season, etc. Now it seems Chloe is a target more than ever since Doomsday is obsessed with her.

My point is...knowing Clark's secret was never the problem. Just being close friends with Clark period makes anyone a potential target. Even Shelby :lol:

[abbaspice1]

Chloe was imprtant BEFORE she knew the secret, and she will be important after losing her memory.

Maybe now she can fully live her LIFE, without being all wrapped up in Clark's. As Xena taught Gabrielle: It is warmer to stand in the sun than living in someone's shadow.

[President_Luthor]

Chloe did warn him that using that crystal had its dangers, reminding him that the last time he handled it he was sucked in the Phantom Zone. And Oliver did caution Chloe about the risks of the kryptonian technology -- before the Brainiac-influenced Chloe tossed him across the room. Oliver raised the issue again with Clark -- who in one of those rare moments of common sense -- warned Chloe about his concerns over her behaviour and abilities due to the Brainiac infusion.

For a variety of reasons, they didn't act until it was practically too late and Chloe lost her memories. Clark was forced into a corner -- he heard, but didn't heed, Jor-El's warning about consequences -- and acted. Maybe Brainiac was merely opportunistic, piggybacking on Chloe to infect the fortress, or maybe he orchestrated it to isolate Clark from his closest friend. No one is doubting Clark's willingness to save Chloe, of course he wants to, it would be a natural reaction. What many people have issues with is that there have been a long line of people who have sacrificed to further Clark's journey (I would even include Lex and Lana here), and Clark -still- hasn't realized that actions have consequences that cannot be easily fixed. This is an ep. where I think TPTB wanted to stir up debate, it keeps us intrigued.

Was Clark right in saving Chloe? Yes. Was he wrong in risking further exposure to any kryptonian technology, knowing its past effects? Yes. Would Clark still be right in saving Chloe, if it meant that by saving her it advanced Brainiac's agenda, brought the rise of Doomsday and put the world in peril? This is where I'm guessing about half the 'yes's in the first question would drop off to 'I don't know' or 'no'. Again, Chloe would usually have been the voice of reason, but in this instance Clark had to be his own voice of reason.

He will have to make hard choices when (if?) he becomes the Superman of legend, and I would argue that this is one case where he is being asked to step up. What would he do? He's been fortunate to have Chloe and Oliver, but now he is -rightly- being expected to show more initiative and leadership, without having JK/Lex/Chloe/Ollie to help him choose.

[Tompouce]

You know I was thinking we all react with our human thoughts with what we know about life. But Clark's decision can't be blamed because it is not an usual situation. Can you seriously say what you would do if your best friend was infected by the evil ? No, nobody can. Clark choose an usual way (perhaps not ethic,...)but he reacted to a unusual situation. A situation nobody knows...It is easy to say I would do this or that when you are far from the problem. But I can tell you when something new and totally inhuman happens in your life you NEVER knows what you can become, never...

----- Added 13 Minutes later -----

I want to add : fortunately, we react as humans beings !!!:lol:

[Bizarrolover]

Chole was more than ready to give up her memory in season 7, when she went to see Curtis Knox to cure her from her meteor infection. That was going to be a total memory loss and Chloe never equalled it to suicide. Partial memory loss is not death.

[Tatiana]

Actually, before Chloe knew Clarks secret she had an existance. And she still does.
To say thats practically bashing the character.


I completely agree, we all loved her before she found out about his secret. She still is a wonderful character and I am sure she still has a lot to offer, she wasn't defined by knowing he is Kal-El.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


Chole was more than ready to give up her memory in season 7, when she went to see Curtis Knox to cure her from her meteor infection. That was going to be a total memory loss and Chloe never equalled it to suicide. Partial memory loss is not death.


Very true, although I do think she expected Clark to fill her in on every detail again. That time Clark acted very selfishly I believe, he was mainly concerned she would forget about him, that's why I like how he acted this time, he was thinking more about her safety and well being, especially because she is starting a new life with Jimmy. That was a true friend, whether he was right or not...we'll have to see.

[davidbrenton]

I would venture to say the very reason people are so reactionary to this plot twist is because the Chloe we all knew and loved is now dead. We are now faced with a different Chloe on a weekly basis.

Now, the character that decided to do this to himself is Clark. His recognition of her "death" was illustrated very clearly in the scene where Clark is watching Chloe and Jimmy talk and make jokes. He knew that his *real* & *true* friend was gone/dead.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


Ey none of us complained about when Lois forgott about his powers, thats like, 2 minutes of her life, POFF gone!


we have to accept that chloe is a still a important part of the series even if she doset know clarks big secret :P

None of us complained because it's constantly expected. That's a status quo device that Superman writers of every show about him have employed (Not sure if it was done in the 50's or whatever).

It was also a temporary knowledge, a short-lived bond that is very different than the 4 years bond that shaped and defined Chloe's character as well as her relationship with Clark.

Furthermore, Clark never made the choice to mindwipe Lois (Ohhh, mindwipe..>Clark used that word with Oliver---that was a form of foreshadowing). He did make the choice with Chloe and that is different.

Lastly, I don't hold animosity toward Clark for making the error, however I can acknowledge it was morally wrong and still enjoy the plot.

[DontCha]

if she actually died, I think the reaction would be rather different, getting her mind erased is nothing like her dying.

[Bizarrolover]

Very true, although I do think she expected Clark to fill her in on every detail again. That time Clark acted very selfishly I believe, he was mainly concerned she would forget about him, that's why I like how he acted this time, he was thinking more about her safety and well being, especially because she is starting a new life with Jimmy. That was a true friend, whether he was right or not...we'll have to see.<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

Do you really think Clark was going to fill her with all the truth about him? I don't think so, and I don't think Chloe was so naive to think the same. I think that Clark was not only trying to protect her, but to give Chloe her life back when he erased part of her memories. She basically put everything on hold because of him and now that Clark is moving forward, I think it's time that shye do the same, that's why he let her go. Anyway, I think her memories will come back sooner or later and things will return to what they were, but in the meanwhile, I'm loving this twist.

[OneShotClois]

I dont like that chloe lose her memories.I hate that chloe lost the memory on the Clark powers. It is part of her existence. I can accept to forget some incident but everything about his secret, is a crime.

.. You should be happy she isn't dead. They could've killed her off because she's not in the mythos. She isn't suppose to know about Clark's secret, yet she found out anyways. If you think she's dead now because of her memory loss, wait until she actually dies. Dieing is NOTHING like losing a part of your life. I think I'd rather lose a piece of my life then die.. just my opinion.

[davidbrenton]

.. You should be happy she isn't dead. They could've killed her off because she's not in the mythos. She isn't suppose to know about Clark's secret, yet she found out anyways. If you think she's dead now because of her memory loss, wait until she actually dies. Dieing is NOTHING like losing a part of your life. I think I'd rather lose a piece of my life then die.. just my opinion.

Well, in her death, maybe she'll finally be in on Clark's secret again.

In all seriousness, however, I see your point. Perhaps a clarification on my part is needed, in that he Killed a very large and important PART of Chloe.

[SnowBird]

Chloe's mind was dead with Brainiac in control. Be glad Clark was able to bring any of Chloe's memories back with the help of Jor-El. She could have been a walking zombie but maybe some prefer that to Chloe being happy not knowing Clark's secret.

This has been debated so much that I'm more than ready for the next episode so we can have something else to talk about. Can the question of Chloe's memory loss be stated in any other way in a new thread? I hope not!!!

I prefer a live Chloe to a brain dead Chloe any day. Thanks Clark, you are my Hero:)

[OneShotClois]

Well, in her death, maybe she'll finally be in on Clark's secret again.

In all seriousness, however, I see your point. Perhaps a clarification on my part is needed, in that he Killed a very large and important PART of Chloe.

I see your point as well. I agree, when Clark made his decision to keep his secret out of Chloe's life, Chloe lost a very large important part of her past because her life basically revolved around Clark and his Secret.

On the bright side, she can now focus on her own life, and Clark could finally do things for himself.

No worries though, I'm pretty sure Chloe will relearn Clark's secret. It'll just be a while.

[davidbrenton]

She could have been a walking zombie but maybe some prefer that to Chloe being happy not knowing Clark's secret.

This has been debated so much that I'm more than ready for the next episode so we can have something else to talk about. Can the question of Chloe's memory loss be stated in any other way in a new thread? I hope not!!!

I prefer a live Chloe to a brain dead Chloe any day. Thanks Clark, you are my Hero:)

It's true that Chloe is SOOO much more HAPPY now. Perhaps ultimately, it's a gift. Time will tell.

[AndiGirl]

At first I was disappointed because thought I used to hate that Chloe knew his secret, I've grown attached to the idea. After watching the episode a second time, I can appreciate it more. Now, I see it as their way of getting around the problem of Chloe not being part of the traditional mythos. Rather than solve it by killing her, they opted to keep her alive and put her back to "normal." Halfway through the episode, I thought she would be rid of BrainIAC and get her healing power back, which she would then use to heal Clark and sacrifice her life. I like it better if she stays alive.

Thats how I feel too. I was incredibly upset when it first happend, and I'm still not thrilled. But I came to the same conclusion as you. If this is the only way they can avoid killing off Chloes character because she isnt apart of the mythos...I can find a way to accept it. I'm always going to hate that they spent 8 years building this beautiful friendship and trust to have it crumble in such a horrible way. But....I've always wanted Chloe to get her happy ending. So if this is the only way, then so be it. :\

[Just Another Guy]

If this is the only way? This is NOT the only way. If the writers can contrive this, they can contrive something else. Chloe needs her memories back. She would've served a greater purpose if she HAD died meaningfully than to fizzle away half of her experiences. Now, they've inadvertently made her appear ignorant, like at the end of "Abyss," making jokes about something that she once knew for FOUR YEARS.

[ClLaLeChFAN01]

Chloe could get all of her memories back next episode. She could also never get them back. However, I think she will realize that there are pieces missing in her puzzle. We will have to wait and see what the PS3 will do!!!!

[Tatiana]

Do you really think Clark was going to fill her with all the truth about him? I don't think so, and I don't think Chloe was so naive to think the same. I think that Clark was not only trying to protect her, but to give Chloe her life back when he erased part of her memories. She basically put everything on hold because of him and now that Clark is moving forward, I think it's time that shye do the same, that's why he let her go. Anyway, I think her memories will come back sooner or later and things will return to what they were, but in the meanwhile, I'm loving this twist.


I was actually talking about what she thought in the episode cure, she had told him the people around her would fill her in, whether she thought that now in Abyss, I guess not...his attitude was very different in Cure than in Abyss I think though. I am loving the twist as well

[Marissa]

I seriously hope that her memories will be coming back in this season. I don't like this twist at all. I feel like the whole Chloe and Clark friendship will never be the same, and it feels kind of bad that Clark is alone now, without Chloe as a sidekick.

[SnowBird]

I seriously hope that her memories will be coming back in this season. I don't like this twist at all. I feel like the whole Chloe and Clark friendship will never be the same, and it feels kind of bad that Clark is alone now, without Chloe as a sidekick.

Chloe and Clark's friendship has changed already even before the loss of memories. Chloe herself said that after she and Jimmy got married the friendship would change. Clark and Lois are getting closer so Clark and Chloe would be getting farther apart without the memory loss. Things change with time and never stay the same. After the memory loss, Chloe looked happy and even gave Clark a friendship hug indicating they are still friends. She will probably help him like before she knew his secret as in seasons 1-4. Personally, I hope she never finds out Clark's secret again because this whole memory loss will be for nothing. Clark and Chloe will be BFF. Clark and Lois will be soul mates and all will be as it should be in Smallville.

[Inkpen23]

Abyss made me as angry if not angrier than the end of Superman 2, in which Lois is made to forget. I will explain why.

1. It is an insult to women. Like we can't decide for ourselves what is best for us? Like we can't make our own decisions about our own life without a man coming in and saying 'nah, your wrong, your going to do what i want'. It's disgusting behaviour from Clark.

2. It is mind rape. It is stripping someone of their personality, important parts of their life. We aren't just talking about certain moments, we are talking about every single thought she ever had about Clark's powers in the past 4 years being taken away.

3. It is not the way i want to think of Superman. He is not supposed to ABUSE POWER like that. He is supposed to respect humans and never interfere with natural things like this.

4. His best friend?! He just makes that decision for her? I could just slap him. I really really want to slap him. If i were Chloe, i would never forgive him for that... ever

In fact, i once wrote a fanfiction in which Clark made Chloe forget her feelings for him so that she wouldnt get hurt. she didn't forgive him. :lol:

I agree with everything you said here especially the part about Chloe not forgiving Clark. Clark has crossed the line, yet again, for the last time with Chloe, IMO. He doesn't deserve to be forgiven. He has treated Chloe so poorly over the years and this to me was the final straw in the hay. I never really did have that much respect for Smallville's Clark Kent since season 1, but after watching Abyss I lost the little respect I had left for him. Even if it does get fixed (in which I still believe that is very unlikely but time will tell) I won't be able to view him as the hero and icon I know and love as superman (unless he gives Chloe an sincere apology from the heart and not some wimpy "Chloe I'm sorry" BS nonsense.) Only then will I might be willing to let it go and give him another chance.

However, he has done something so morally corrupt to the point where I can't see how Chloe could ever forgive him for it. If my so-called BFF had done something like that to me (in another universe) he would no longer be BFF once I found out about it. There is nothing he could say or do that would make me want to forgive him. Clark violated Chloe in the most heinous way, and what's even more heart wrenching is to watch Chloe moments before trying to hold onto all of the special memories she had left of Clark while Brainiac was wiping them away one by one completely from her mind. What Clark did was inexcusable and just flat out wrong no ifs, ands, or buts about it. It doesn't matter what his motives were for doing what he felt was right.

Clark had no right to to invade Chloe's mind like that, regardless his motives were for doing it, and if she does get her memories back I don't see how she could ever forgive him (when he betrayed her in the worst way possible while taking advantage of her when she was vulnerable and while knowingly going against her wishes.) Chloe specifically warned him about going off in a radical mindset and doing things without thinking about the consequences. That's the reason why she didn't tell Clark about what was going on with her because she knows Clark better than anyone and she knows Clark is the type of guy that would find a way to whine and blame himself for all the mistakes made that he has no control over. She didn't want to see him going out there making irrational decisions without thinking things through and thinking about the consequences of his actions. She specifically warned him about that, but yet he still didn't listen. Smallville's Clark Kent personifies his nickname of BDA.

[SnowBird]

I agree with everything you said here especially the part about Chloe not forgiving Clark. Clark has crossed the line, yet again, for the last time with Chloe, IMO. He doesn't deserve to be forgiven.

That is Chloe's choice not to forgive Clark if she is too narrow minded not to see the whole picture. She will loose her best friend by choice and maybe become a bitter old woman in her future. There will be no need to have her on SV. She will cease to exist. I believe that Chloe is a better person than people give her credit for and if she does find out what Clark did, she will understand and forgive and go on to have a good life. Bitterness is something that will eat a person up and I don't want Chloe to live that way.

[Inkpen23]

That is Chloe's choice not to forgive Clark if she is too narrow minded not to see the whole picture. She will loose her best friend by choice and maybe become a bitter old woman in her future. There will be no need to have her on SV. She will cease to exist. I believe that Chloe is a better person than people give her credit for and if she does find out what Clark did, she will understand and forgive and go on to have a good life. Bitterness is something that will eat a person up and I don't want Chloe to live that way.

Mod Edit Chloe has put up with more than enough crap from Mr. Kent. If she decides not to forgive I don't think she's being narrow-minded (which doesn't make sense). I think she's finally deciding to get a spine of her own and be her own woman. She'll finally start recognizing her friendship with Clark isn't really worth it since after all these years and out of all the people in his life she is the one that has had to sacrifice the most without the proper appreciation. A person can take so much, and she doesn't deserve to be treated like that. She deserves better than Clark Kent. Sometimes in order to move forward in your life you have to let people go especially when that person undermines you time after time again. She can still remain in Smalliville. She can join the JL and help them save the world. She doesn't need Clark Kent to have an existence.

[Krpyto]

Thanks for butchering Chloe, PS3. Every year Chloe gets [MOD EDIT] on, I guess this year is no exception. This angers me, I've about had it!

If you look at it from Clark's perspective though don't you think that was really a good decision on his part? I do. He is protecting Chloe and that was a move he should have made.

Also it doesnt do away with the past 4 seasons. She knew the past 4 seasons and helped Clark through a lot. She just doesn't rememer it now which is better for her.

This is Smallville this is all subject to change later, her memories or some incident may make them all come back, who knows? But I do think it is better for Chloe.

[Hopefulsuicide]

you know, this episode has had such a negative effect on my view of Superman that if i could, i would have the memory of it removed

however, i would not be happy to discover that my best friend took it without asking, because she saw how upset it was making me...

in fact, how would people feel if i decided my opinion on the episode was superior to yours, and that 'for the greater good' of smallville fans, i should erase it from everyone's memories. wouldn't you feel a little... violated? angry? as though your rights had been taken from you?

:lol:

anyway, i was thinking of ways to explain how strongly i feel about free will, and how it is the biggest of human rights, when i remembered the Angel episode Peace out... i'm not quoting this to compare the two shows, but simply because it sums up how i feel on the sbuject

JASMINE: There are no absolutes. No right and wrong. Haven't you learned anything working for the Powers? There are only choices. I offered paradise. You chose this!

ANGEL: Because I could. Because that's what you took away from us. Choice.

JASMINE: And look what free will has gotten you.

ANGEL: Hey, I didn't say we were smart. I said it's our right. It's what makes us human.

...

ANGEL: Thousands of people are dead because of what you've done.

JASMINE: And how many will die because of you? I could've stopped it, Angel. All of it. War, disease, poverty. How many precious, beautiful lives would've been saved in a handful of years? Yes, I murdered thousands to save billions. This world is doomed to drown in its own blood now.

ANGEL: The price was too high, Jasmine. Our fate has to be our own, or we're nothing.

[Serynarpc]

Oh nice parallel, Hopefulsuicide.

As a Jossverse fan, I agree that there's a definite similarity to a 'perfect world' in which a few get sacrificed so everyone's happy with no free will- or the real, gritty world with free will.

Chloe stated that seeing Clark's abilities changed her life- and that she made an impact. For Clark to remove that is like mind - raping her- all the trust that was built up, all of the experiences that she had that made her who she is- gone. I don't understand how he could do that. I know it was because he feared a Pete - like existence for her, but that was her choice to make.

After he removed Brainiac, he could have asked if she wanted a normal life- and she would have refused to forget about him.

[Nimkong]

4 season's down the drain, so what memories replaced the ones that were taken? Like the butterfly effect, something had to take the place of all of what Chloe' has seen and done! So what, are they going to show it or is she just going to be bissfully ingnorant for the rest of the show! The show did such a great job of building a place for her, now that is all gone. So now the great Chloe' is going to be a happy house wife, be barefoot and prego-they might as well just kill her of now, she is my favorite character and they may as well just kill her off now! So sad.:(

[umm]

...anyway, i was thinking of ways to explain how strongly i feel about free will, and how it is the biggest of human rights, when i remembered the Angel episode Peace out... i'm not quoting this to compare the two shows, but simply because it sums up how i feel on the sbuject
JASMINE: There are no absolutes. No right and wrong. Haven't you learned anything working for the Powers? There are only choices. I offered paradise. You chose this!
ANGEL: Because I could. Because that's what you took away from us. Choice.
JASMINE: And look what free will has gotten you.
ANGEL: Hey, I didn't say we were smart. I said it's our right. It's what makes us human.
ANGEL: Thousands of people are dead because of what you've done.
JASMINE: And how many will die because of you? I could've stopped it, Angel. All of it. War, disease, poverty. How many precious, beautiful lives would've been saved in a handful of years? Yes, I murdered thousands to save billions. This world is doomed to drown in its own blood now.
ANGEL: The price was too high, Jasmine. Our fate has to be our own, or we're nothing.


Nice one, quoting a scene from the best vampire show about the best and hunkiest hero ever! Sorry Superman but you have got nothing on Aangel, and not just in the looks department!
Angel knew, that in order to do a good job, he can't do it alone, he wasn't unable to accept help, first and foremost from Cordelia, his best and most trusted friend, loyal sidekick and seer! Ring a bell anyone? Can the similarities be noticed here!
But no,... without considering the consequences, free will which among other things makes us into humans, his bestfriend's wishes and opinions, not to mention the 4 years of her life invested into pushing him towards being a hero, our 'smart' Clarky boy goes and just pushes the 'lets rewrite someones lifehistory' button, cos he, as apparantly selfproclaimed God, has the right to rewrite someones life!!!!!! Once again, how he can sleep at night is beyong me!!!!

[Hopefulsuicide]

Sorry Superman but you have got nothing on Aangel, and not just in the looks department!


see this i gotta disagree with :lol:

Dean Cain's superman makes Angel look like a wannabe hero. But they are totally different heroes. That's why i said the quote wasn't so much a comparison as a good wording of how i feel.

Of course, Angel makes Smallville's superman look like a BDA. Heck even Spike has more principals than that.

[KAL-EL_3]

Thnak God she doesnt know his secret anymore. [Mod Edit]

[RedKRules]

nice joke, bad thing I forgot to laugh !!!

[KAL-EL_3]

it was not a joke. at all. so good thing ya didnt laugh

[SnowBird]

Mod Edit Chloe has put up with more than enough crap from Mr. Kent. If she decides not to forgive I don't think she's being narrow-minded (which doesn't make sense). I think she's finally deciding to get a spine of her own and be her own woman. She'll finally start recognizing her friendship with Clark isn't really worth it since after all these years and out of all the people in his life she is the one that has had to sacrifice the most without the proper appreciation. A person can take so much, and she doesn't deserve to be treated like that. She deserves better than Clark Kent. Sometimes in order to move forward in your life you have to let people go especially when that person undermines you time after time again. She can still remain in Smalliville. She can join the JL and help them save the world. She doesn't need Clark Kent to have an existence.

Chloe was never forced to be a sidekick to Clark. She was a willing participant. There were only a few times after learning about his secret when she didn't want to help him or be with him because she had something else she wanted to do. One of those times is when she didn't want to be meteor infected anymore and was going to have surgery with the side effect of 5 years of memory loss. Clark came to her rescue. Another time under her mother's influence, Chloe wanted to leave Clark's protection and get out of town. This time she almost killed Clark with Krytonite. Clark again came to her rescue. Chloe has always been her own woman and will continue to be so. If she decides to have a life without Clark, he would be hurt but he wouldn't stop her. Don't be surprised though if Chloe decided to separate herself from Clark as a friend, she won't be on SV anymore unless she will turn bad and be a villain and then she will have a story line to give her something to do, imo. Just being associated with the JL is not going to give her 22 episodes like she has now.

I know this has been said before but I'm going to repeat again. Clark did not keep the memory of his secret from Chloe to be mean. He did it for her protection. When Chloe was unconscious, he said he was sorry. He is taking responsibility for his actions as he told Jor-El. This was not a casual decision. In fact, because of Clark's compassion towards Chloe in replacing her memories, the Brainiac in Chloe has taken over the Fortress. When people start pointing fingers, the blame for future consequences will not be placed on any one person. Chloe and Clark are in this together even if you don't want them to be. I'm really interested to see how this all plays out.

[Hopefulsuicide]

but how is she safer?

she is not any safer from people attacking Clark's loved ones
she is not any safer from brainiac
she is not any safer from meteor freaks or anyone she is working with at isis
she is not any safer from the things going on inside her body i.e. her meteor abilities
she is not any safer from davis/doomsday

what exactly is she safer from now that she doesnt know the truth?

[SnowBird]

but how is she safer?

she is not any safer from people attacking Clark's loved ones
she is not any safer from brainiac
she is not any safer from meteor freaks or anyone she is working with at isis
she is not any safer from the things going on inside her body i.e. her meteor abilities
she is not any safer from davis/doomsday

what exactly is she safer from now that she doesnt know the truth?

Clark made this decision because he was going to be more active in saving people he did not know in Metropolis and world wide putting Chloe in more danger than she is now. We know that Chloe, like every lead character in Smallville, is not completely out of danger but in Clark's eyes she would be in less danger with what he knew at the time.

[Hopefulsuicide]

but how? seriously try and think of it logically instead of from a defend Clark point of view

yes, anyone around him is going to be in more danger the more famous he gets and the more he risks himself and his identity on a wider scale

how does her not knowing the secret actually make her any safer?

[SnowBird]

but how? seriously try and think of it logically instead of from a defend Clark point of view

yes, anyone around him is going to be in more danger the more famous he gets and the more he risks himself and his identity on a wider scale

how does her not knowing the secret actually make her any safer?

This question will only be answered in future episodes.

[Hopefulsuicide]

but we are talking about what made his decision justified. what he was thinking when he decided to make her choices for her and leave out some of her memories.

you say he did it to protect her

and yet no one can figure out what he was thinking it would protect her from. no one can identify ANY danger she is in BECAUSE of knowing his secret...

so my conclusion has to be that he had no justification for doing what he did, and he is simply a BDA who thinks he is always right and is obsessed with the idea that making sacrifices makes him more of a man

[WildGoatTamer]

The only person I see benefitting from this is Clark. One less person knows his weakness. :/

[xrayvision]

And since this show is a story on how Clark becomes Superman, that is perfectly fine. In the end, Clark has to be Superman. Superman doesn't have fact-finding missions with his friends before he goes out to save lives, stop crime/evil, etc. That would make him utterly pathetic instead of DC's greatest hero.

I'm very happy because this season has repaired Clark's character so much. Chloe not knowing his secret will lead to him being even more proactive, thinking for himself, and will once again force him to be steps ahead of everyone else as in seasons 1-3 (except he is even smarter now).

What happened to Chloe shouldn't be taken personally. If you really think about it, the love for Chloe's character happened because of the way she was written in the first few seasons. She was such an underdog and was extremely interesting. She grew stale in season 5 after she fully knew Clark's secret. In seasons 5-7, Chloe was doing the same thing every single episode. It was boring and it hurt Clark's character. Jade4813 made a great post here:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4125784&postcount=26

I think this can allow Chloe to reinvent herself and perhaps get back into journalism or into something new altogether.

[Hopefulsuicide]

why would him finding out the facts out with the help of his friends ever make him pathetic. in fact i think going out without bothering to find out the facts would do that. and isnt the point of him being a journalist so that he can get help finding out the facts?

lois, perry, jimmy have constantly been in the mythos for that very purpose...

i entirely agree with you about chloe going stale in season 5-7 but i dont think that has anything to do with clark making an unethical choice

the ends don't justify the means

[SnowBird]

but we are talking about what made his decision justified. what he was thinking when he decided to make her choices for her and leave out some of her memories.

you say he did it to protect her

and yet no one can figure out what he was thinking it would protect her from. no one can identify ANY danger she is in BECAUSE of knowing his secret...

so my conclusion has to be that he had no justification for doing what he did, and he is simply a BDA who thinks he is always right and is obsessed with the idea that making sacrifices makes him more of a man

No one knows for sure what danger Chloe would be in because it hasn't happened yet. It is a preventive decision like wearing seat belts when you are in a car.

In your words you said..."but how? seriously try and think of it logically instead of from a defend Clark point of view."

I might be looking at this from Clark's point of view but you are also looking at this from Chloe's point of view. This is okay to do this and it doesn't make my comments wrong but indeed a point of view that I believe in. I think we will not change each others opinions. If you think Clark is a BDA, then sobeit. I think Clark sacrifices his own life for his friends and the world. We all know he becomes Superman. If this isn't good enough for you that Clark is trying to do the right thing on his journey then nothing I say will change your mind.

I like Chloe a lot even when her jealously made her a snoop into Clark's life for Lionel in S2. She has redeemed herself and has given Clark friendship, love, dedication and even put her own life on hold at times to help Clark save their friends and strangers. She has been the best sidekick that Clark could have ever had. Clark said she has saved him more than he has saved her. I believe they would give their lives for each other because that is how much they mean to each other as friends. To me that is unconditional love. Clark's actions are not selfish but, in his eyes, for the betterment of Chloe's future. Parents with children know what unconditional love is. A parent does what they can for the safety of their child. A parent loves their child no matter what the child does even when they are a disappointment. Clark and Chloe have disappointed each other and they have made each other happy. I think their friendship will last till the end of SV and we only have our imaginations to see their future. To see people try to trash this friendship by calling names and pointing blame is sad indeed. If you agree or disagree, okay. I have given all I have to give to make sense of Chloe and Clark's relationship and actions and I have nothing more to say. Like I said, the future will tell if Clark made the best decision for Chloe or not. Take Care:)

[xrayvision]

why would him finding out the facts out with the help of his friends ever make him pathetic. in fact i think going out without bothering to find out the facts would do that. and isnt the point of him being a journalist so that he can get help finding out the facts?

lois, perry, jimmy have constantly been in the mythos for that very purpose...

i entirely agree with you about chloe going stale in season 5-7 but i dont think that has anything to do with clark making an unethical choice

the ends don't justify the means

I think he should find out facts, but on his own, or at best by having discussions with people in his life (Lois, Chloe, etc) without giving anything related to his secret away.

That is how he did it in the early seasons. He and Chloe had discussions talking about stuff but he kept all powers-related things and any knowledge he acquired from his powers to himself. That's the way I think it should be. That way he & Lois could collaborate but Clark would still be several steps ahead of her (or Chloe).

[dimeo782002]

Thnak God she doesnt know his secret anymore. [Mod Edit]

not allowed to bash other fans . i hope there is no season nine because this show is clearly becoming a joke to the history of such a legend ! people calling season 8 mythos and iconic ... why cause he is lightswitched into the dp with no glasses and no alter ego or let me guess because of the lightswitched romance between a and b . so iconic ..... this is smallville not superman and it shouldn't be not yet. the time line is so screwed up and altered but let me guess we'll just blame it on chloe sullivan . rude completely rude.

[Odysseus]

I was disappointed...but I'm fairly confident Chloe WILL rediscover the secret. I don't read any spoilers, but I'm pretty sure she will.

[unfocused]

you say he did it to protect her

and yet no one can figure out what he was thinking it would protect her from. no one can identify ANY danger she is in BECAUSE of knowing his secret...

We're all telling you. Knowing the secret puts her in "constant" danger. It has before, and it would again. And at this point, the dangers are so severe (ie. BrainIAC taking her over from the inside out) that this is the last straw. Anyone who loves Chloe will make this same decision. It's because Chloe is too close to Clark that she almost died. Now, Clark made the extremely difficult decision to push her away.

Some of us respect him for that. I certainly do. As hard as it would to push my dearest friend away, I would definitely do it if it meant to save her life. Even if I never see her again, I will at least know I gave her the chance to continue her life. this is how Clark see's his decision.

[Just Another Guy]

It really bugs me that everyone would embrace such a potentially lousy story idea just because they think it will make him be Superman. Who needs Superman if the story around him stinks?

[unfocused]

Because many of us don't think the story around him stinks.

Hey, maybe there will be a Chloeville spinoff for you. Hmmm. That way, Chloe will be the understandably main focus. Because on Smallville, she's not.

[Just Another Guy]

Hmm, how about you lose the sarcastic edge and think about what's good for Chloe's character? No, this isn't.

Smallville's current overall storyline rocks. I'd defend it with my life. But this is a potential stinker. I know a lot of people are saying it leads to Superman, blah, blah, blah. But it doesn't. It just leads to a lame excuse for not coming up with something more creative. AND it takes a great character like Chloe, that Smallville has always been able to be exclusively proud of, and murders her. The last 4 seasons will have been a total waste for her character if she suddenly does not remember anything that's been happening.

That, my friend, is a bad story for Chloe. Superman's story can thrive with Chloe in it. But to even THINK that this is a good idea seems to depict a desperately traditional Superman fan, if I'm being brutally honest.

[Serynarpc]

Uh, who is this 'we' you are referring to, unfocused? I'm seeing more on the 'sucks' boat than the 'yay Chloe is protected!' boat.

Yeah, it'd be nice if certain fans would stop smashing others over the head with 'I'm right, you're wrong!' hammers. We're all fans and all have the right to our opinions, so stop being so judgmental.

I strongly agree with Just Another Guy- while Smallville has been on a solid rise as far as episode quality, I think that this particular aspect is a huge step back. I say that because I enjoy the conversations between Chloe and Clark- and lets face it, Chloe gets a lot of screen time saving Clark's butt or vice versa. How is the season going to shape up with Chloe not knowing his secret? Once she learns what Clark did you her, it will shatter their trust in each other, and I dread that.

[Just Another Guy]

Yeah, it'd be nice if certain fans would stop smashing others over the head with 'I'm right, you're wrong!' hammers. We're all fans and all have the right to our opinions, so stop being so judgmental.

I strongly agree with Just Another Guy- while Smallville has been on a solid rise as far as episode quality, I think that this particular aspect is a huge step back. I say that because I enjoy the conversations between Chloe and Clark- and lets face it, Chloe gets a lot of screen time saving Clark's butt or vice versa. How is the season going to shape up with Chloe not knowing his secret? Once she learns what Clark did yo her, it will shatter their trust in each other, and I dread that.
I've heard a few people say that they hope Chloe chews him out if and when she gets her memory back. But honestly, at this point, I'm so worried that she won't get them back, I wouldn't care if she baked him a cake.

[Serynarpc]

I've heard a few people say that they hope Chloe chews him out if and when she gets her memory back. But honestly, at this point, I'm so worried that she won't get them back, I wouldn't care if she baked him a cake.


*frowns* Anyone else flashing back to the fissue when Chloe realized Lana and Clark had been dating behind her back? That was a completely understandable omission on Clark and Lana's parts- nothing on the full scale, mind alter like we have now.

[unfocused]

Hmm, how about you lose the sarcastic edge and think about what's good for Chloe's character?

Just as soon as Chloeville gets the greenlight, I'm all for it!

What's disturbing is having a discussion with fanwankers that completely overlooked the way Lana was written for years, and even Lex when he was with Lana. Because those two could die in a fire and you wouldn't care. It's all about Chloe when you're a Chloe fan, huh? :)

Too bad for you, this show is about Superman and not an overwritten five foot blond chick that can't even make it into a comic book :lol:

But seriously, LETS GO CHLOEVILLE!

[Serynarpc]

Just as soon as Chloeville gets the greenlight, I'm all for it!

What's disturbing is having a discussion with fanwankers that completely overlooked the way Lana was written for years, and even Lex when he was with Lana. Because those two could die in a fire and you wouldn't care. It's all about Chloe when you're a Chloe fan, huh? :)

Too bad for you, this show is about Superman and not an overwritten five foot blond chick that can't even make it into a comic book :lol:

But seriously, LETS GO CHLOEVILLE!


Okay, what? How does this contribute to the conversation at all? You're just mocking another poster.

I personally hated it when Lana was around because it was All about Lana show. Lately its been better- although Lois is getting more screen time. I liked how the producers slipped in some Mercy & Ollie development in there. Chlavis also interested me with its development.

Poor Jimmy gets screwed ove, screen time wise. Without Chloe and Clark convincing Jimmy that nothing is odd about Clark, I expect to see Jimmy's screen time plummet.

Oh, and Chloe does have web - episodes. Chloe Chronicles.

[Becc]

For all of those people that say Clark wiped Chloe's memories to protect her- let's be honest he did it because he felt guilty of what was happening to her because of his secret. He did it for purely selfish reasons. So how does that make him closer to superman?

[unfocused]

Oh, and Chloe does have web - episodes. Chloe Chronicles.
I'd love to see a live-action series, mind you. ;)



let's be honest

You're being opinionated, not honest. To be honest, you'd have to look at the facts. The facts clearly tell us he did this for the safety of his friend. I can understand Chloe fans taking this the wrong way, I really can. But I can only take that at face value, which, as fans, isn't worth much since some people are biased towards Chloe's character development as opposed to Clark's character development.

[xrayvision]

For all of those people that say Clark wiped Chloe's memories to protect her- let's be honest he did it because he felt guilty of what was happening to her because of his secret. He did it for purely selfish reasons. So how does that make him closer to superman?

I can't say anything else that will convince anyone. Right now he is not Superman so everything he does will cause others to suspect things about him and think there is more to him and will urge them to uncover the truth about him.

Notice how Lois was not specifically targeted by Brainiac. The only time she was ever threatened by him was when she was by circumstance on the plane that Martha was on. Brainiac had several opportunities to attack her after that and he never did. Why? Because she wasn't knee deep in Clark's secret or involved in his pursuit of Brainiac the way Chloe & Lana were. These are all facts. Clark said it himself. The more people know his secret, the more danger they're in. He mentioned Jonathan, Pete, Lex, and others by name.

How's he supposed to save the world if those closest to him are being used as instruments of blackmail to compromise any good he can do? This entire fiasco will prove why the Superman persona works and is absolutely needed. If Clark was already Superman, then Brainiac would have gone after Superman, not Clark, because Clark to him would be a human who he wouldn't have suspicions of & wouldn't appear on his radar.

I can't put it any better than this. If this is considered selfish, then I guess Clark/Superman saving the world is selfish, whereas never being able to save the world because he always has to be babysitting his friends because his enemies want to get at them to neutralize him is unselfish.

Seriously, if Chloe wasn't having her life erased by Brainiac & killing someone with powers she was never supposed to have, I would say Clark did a rotten thing. But almost everything in the past 8 years has held Clark back from becoming who he was meant to be. First it was Lex's curiosity of him. Then Lionel caught on and was all over Clark and hounded him. At the same time Lana was always hounding him for his secret. All these characters caused a lot of problems when they started digging. Clark had to watch his back with Lionel's obsession of him. He had to prevent Lex from finding out because of what Lionel would do to him. He had to protect Lana because her obsession of his secret got her nearly killed dozens of times. The latest statistic was Chloe. She ducked it for a while, but now even she was threatened. With the threat of Doomsday looming, it would be extremely stupid for them to have Clark be distracted with Chloe and the danger she could be in, especially when she's already extremely involved with Davis. The last thing Clark needs is for her to know his secret when Davis is going to try harder to get to her while he is transforming into Doomsday.

[kryptoniankilla]

Wow! I'm in awe over all the hate!!! I'm disappointed that Chloe for the time being doesn't remember Clark's secret. But damn, I cheered! That was a brave and confident move! He sacrificed his closest friend! The one person who knows him so intimately. Giving that up because she deserves a better life. Who else does he have now other than Martha? That's extremely selfless and Superman'ly to me.

[Black Panda]

He sacrificed his closest friend! The one person who knows him so intimately. Giving that up because she deserves a better life.
Look, it's the stupidity that bothers me. Sure, he thought he was being selfless. That's nice. But he did not think the descision through. You just can't leave the evil computer's false memories in there. That's just asking for trouble. You just can't edit out large sections of a person's life without damaging them. Why does he know better than she does what makes a worthwhile life. Powers are nice, but if he respects "The American Way" doesn't that mean we put some value on the individual's self determination? Why would he invite all these horrors over just having the backbone to cut her out of his life. It's not a "tough moral choice", there is no evidence of any real thought behind it. It's pure irrational emotion from the guilt and fear.

[Fallen One]

James, you are the man! I'm cracking up over here. I can't believe it. Its like I'm seeing an exact copy of myself posting.

I agree word for word on everything. The day the show values the progress of Chloe over Clark Kent, is the day the WB will cancel it.

Chloe will be fine, Clark definately will be fine, and the show will be fine. It hasn't lost its "heart" by a long shot. The show will be better off for this decision.

Now that Chloe isn't filled in the loop about Clark now, the writers are now forced not to write her as a all knowing deuce ex-machina. Its all over. Now plots will have to be resolved through wit and cunning. Season 8 was doing better at that, but with Chloe out of the loop it becomes the status quo.

This isn't Batman. And Chloe isn't Robin. PS3 understands this and is stirring the story where it belongs. Thank God.

[moviefan2k4]

But to even THINK that this is a good idea seems to depict a desperately traditional Superman fan, if I'm being brutally honest.And what, may I ask, is so terrible about being a traditional Super-fan? I'm no diehard purist, but there's certain aspects about the legend to which I do not take alterations lightly. It's my belief that "Smallville" has done more good than bad for the Man of Steel, but there's a few key points that really tick me off from time to time...and I suspect many fans are like that, in one form or another.

As for the continuing "amnesiac Chloe" discussion, I'm hoping that she eventually gets at least part of the knowledge back, later down the road. A major reason for this opinion is simply that her remaining "clueless" puts way too many plot holes into past events.

[unfocused]

Notice how Lois was not specifically targeted by Brainiac. The only time she was ever threatened by him was when she was by circumstance on the plane that Martha was on. Brainiac had several opportunities to attack her after that and he never did. Why? Because she wasn't knee deep in Clark's secret or involved in his pursuit of Brainiac the way Chloe & Lana were. These are all facts. Clark said it himself. The more people know his secret, the more danger they're in. He mentioned Jonathan, Pete, Lex, and others by name.

How's he supposed to save the world if those closest to him are being used as instruments of blackmail to compromise any good he can do?
No truer words, my brother. Chloe knowing Clark's secret does have impact and consequences. All I'm hearing from the angry is loyalty for their favorite character. Which is alright, but not when the character impedes the progression of the main focused character. Lana cared enough about Clark to let him go, in her own words "I need you, but the world needs you more." That line, and Lana herself, put Chloe to shame. Chloe needs to love Clark enough to let him go, as Lana does, and as Clark does for Chloe herself.


But almost everything in the past 8 years has held Clark back from becoming who he was meant to be. First it was Lex's curiosity of him. Then Lionel caught on and was all over Clark and hounded him. At the same time Lana was always hounding him for his secret. All these characters caused a lot of problems when they started digging. Clark had to watch his back with Lionel's obsession of him. He had to prevent Lex from finding out because of what Lionel would do to him. He had to protect Lana because her obsession of his secret got her nearly killed dozens of times. The latest statistic was Chloe.
Ouch, brutal honesty hits hard. And I agree with this. Very excellently put, xrayvision.


Wow! I'm in awe over all the hate!!! I'm disappointed that Chloe for the time being doesn't remember Clark's secret. But damn, I cheered! That was a brave and confident move! He sacrificed his closest friend! The one person who knows him so intimately. Giving that up because she deserves a better life. Who else does he have now other than Martha? That's extremely selfless and Superman'ly to me.
Exactly. I believe it was brave to. People need to understand that Abyss was an episode about sacrifice. A very important lesson that is a cornerstone in Clark Kents transition into the iconic Superman. The greatest heroes each have deep wounds. Some wounds they give to themselves. It's a necessary step in becoming so great. And personally, I'm glad there is so much controversy over this. Very rarely does anything Superman does in the comics or in movies cause this much emotion to flare. And as each day continues with us at odds, I believe more and more that Clark's decision with Chloe's memories was not only the right one, but also the best for the show. Some people may hate Smallville now, but I guarantee they will be at the edge of their seats come this Thursday.


James, you are the man! I'm cracking up over here. I can't believe it. Its like I'm seeing an exact copy of myself posting.

I agree word for word on everything. The day the show values the progress of Chloe over Clark Kent, is the day the WB will cancel it.
Exactly! Thank you. We all tuned in to see Clark Kent. No one knew who Chloe Sullivan was. She's made fans over the years, and lost some as well, but the one constant throughout 8 years has been Clark and the reason Smallville is the highest rated television show on it's network, which is his transition into becoming our worlds greatest hero. Frankly, I'm not interested in seeing Chloe becoming whatever it is she was supposed to. Which is all still sketchy right now... healing ability? Sounds great, but not if it kills her in the process.


Now that Chloe isn't filled in the loop about Clark now, the writers are now forced not to write her as a all knowing deuce ex-machina. Its all over. Now plots will have to be resolved through wit and cunning. Season 8 was doing better at that, but with Chloe out of the loop it becomes the status quo.

Nice way to put it. The writers are actually challenging themselves to write greater stories! Without Super Chloogle, they can't make things easy for Clark. He will have to show us more semblance of that iconic hero, and not simply run to Chloe for guidance or help. Another win for PS3.

----- Added 13 Minutes later -----


James, you are the man! I'm cracking up over here. I can't believe it. Its like I'm seeing an exact copy of myself posting.

Haha, oh you were talking to me. Thanks, mate. I look forward to reading your posts as well.

[rogueslayer1985]

Hi ever since i watched abyss i have been angry about clark and him erasing chloe's memory of his secret. I mean look at all the things they have been through that she will no longer remember;
-The goodbye kiss in vessel
-all the talks in front of the fire in which clark told chloe that she means so much to him.
-All the times she has helped him and all the times he helped her, that cemented their bond and friendship.
-All the talks with martha and the bonding they did.
-In season four 'blank', she wont remember that she was there for and helped protect him. She wont remember dying to save him and trying to protect him.

This is just a massive loss to the fans thats now know everything means nothing in the world of smallville.

I would love to be optimistic and think they will fix this but i fear they wont. All the character growth of clark and chloe has all been in vein. It meant the world to chloe to know clarks secret and she has said a million times she would rather die then betray him yet he does this to someone so devoted to him.

But considering everything do you think clark did the right thing by chloe?

[Clarky123]

bro, she will remember EVERYTHING except HIS secret, it's not like her entire picture of clark evolved around his secret.

I like what he did and i support him!

[KAL-EL_3]

chloe fans will cry soon enough abour how she's being written off!!!!!

[loislanechick]

I was shocked at first, then dissapointed and angry..now I am simply sad because I love the relationship that clark and chloe have, and now that relationship isn't the same..she doesn't know about his secret anymore, and if clark has taken those memories from her, then he has also taken every single memory that was connected to his secret..all their "missions" they had together and all those times she has helped clark..that's all gone now..it's like they're not that close anymore..That makes me really sad :(

[Just Another Guy]

Okay, first of all, to unfocused:

What is this nonsense you say about Lana and Lex? I enjoyed both very much. Both were taken in strange directions from time to time, but a character can recover from most obstacles. This is not something that can be fixed unless Chloe's memories are restored.

I am NOT biased toward Chloe over Clark. Get this straight: Clark's character is in fine shape, and made an understandable move. But the WRITERS have made a very sour choice for Chloe, and it needs to be fixed if she's ever going to be the same. If you don't mind her like this, that's your right, but quit ignoring everything I've said about why she would be ruined like this.

By the way, Chloe's five-foot-five, and the Chloe Chronicles was live-action.

And now to moviefan2k4:

There's nothing wrong with being a diehard fan. I said desperately. Smallville's driven me crazy over the years too for certain inaccuracies. But the problem I'm referring to is letting something as reckless as Chloe's mind-wipe slide just so things can be like in the comics and movies (no Chloe, Superman, etc.).

I've often feared there would be some ridiculous explanation as to why no one recognizes Clark in his glasses, just so that the story would line itself up in the end. This, in its apparent attempt to remove Chloe, seems like one of those cop-outs.

[unfocused]

chloe fans will cry soon enough abour how she's being written off!!!!!
How about we just wait and see before jumping to conclusions? Maybe she isn't being written off. Maybe this ordeal is setting up a big, well written confrontation between Chloe and Clark. Maybe she will rediscover Clark's secret in some amazing storyline. Who knows. I'm just saying to give it a chance.

Just like I, and a few others, had to tell many people to give Doomsday a chance (that actually turned out to be right, since many people hated the idea of Doomsday, but now it's the big buzz around Smallville-mania). So, give this storyline a chance, it may turn out to be something amazing. We all know PS3 are capable of turning something that seems bad into something amazing, btw ;)


What is this nonsense you say about Lana and Lex? I enjoyed both very much. Both were taken in strange directions from time to time, but a character can recover from most obstacles. This is not something that can be fixed unless Chloe's memories are restored.
I disagree. There are many angles the writers can take to turn this storyline into something suitable for you. You just need to be open-minded and wait to see how it plays out. But if you want to "write-off" Chloe's character now, go ahead. No one will stop you. I, however, will sit patiently, though eager, to see what will happen within the next few months.


I am NOT biased toward Chloe over Clark. Get this straight: Clark's character is in fine shape, and made an understandable move. But the WRITERS have made a very sour choice for Chloe, and it needs to be fixed if she's ever going to be the same. If you don't mind her like this, that's your right, but quit ignoring everything I've said about why she would be ruined like this.
Well I wish everyone here was as reasonable as you are.


By the way, Chloe's five-foot-five, and the Chloe Chronicles was live-action
Hey I was 5 inches off, awesome. Closer than I though I'd be. And I'm saying a legitimate, full-fledged television series about Chloe and her adventures would be great, thnx ;)

[Demien]

I think he did right choice because otherway she would be dead soon or something worse
So my vote to yes

[Jeta]

Well, first at all, hi everybody and sorry for my rusty english. I'm Jeta, from Spain, Europe.

Then, I'm dissapointed, upset, angry... they're broken the most beautiful relationship in the series. Chloe doesn't deserve this, Clark doesn't deserve to be a man who take away the memories from others without permission and the fans don't deserve this sad twist. 4 years of friendship, loyalty and kindness are gone in a second, it's not fair.

I hope Jor-El was already kidnapped in the erasing process and was Brainiac who manipulated the Chloe's memories in some way to cheat Clark, but eventually Clark defeats Brainiac and his influenty over Chloe dissapears and, then, her memories go back. Other way, it would be very frustrating...

I still rememeber when Chloe said: I'd never tell <!--colorc--><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#CC0000--><!--/coloro-->anyone. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FFCC66--><!--/coloro-->I'd die before<!--colorc--><!--/colorc--> <!--coloro:#CC0000--><!--/coloro--> I'd ever<!--colorc--><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#3366FF--><!--/coloro--> betray you.

Now, that shocking quote is a lie...

[loislanechick]

Hi Jeta..welcome to the kryptonsite :) I know how you feel, I love the realtionship clark and chloe had, but we'll see what will happen..

[unfocused]

Welcome to KSite, Jeta, nice name, by the way. I agree with loislanechick, who also has a nice name ;) let's see what happens. :)

[Becc]

well I do hope you're right unfocused about this leading to a better storyline- I have to say though if Chloe does regain her memories I hope the writers won't have her immediately forgive Clark.

[Kalista]

For all of those people that say Clark wiped Chloe's memories to protect her- let's be honest he did it because he felt guilty of what was happening to her because of his secret. He did it for purely selfish reasons. So how does that make him closer to superman?

Although I was saddened by the memory wipe, I have to defend Clark. He was not being selfish because he believed, at that time, that the memory wipe would be in her best interests. Unfortunately, it will backfire and that just proves that she isn't any safer not knowing about his secret. That's one of the reasons I think she will regain her memories.

[wolverine316]

Think about it. When you say 4 years thrown out the window makes it seem that Chloe's whole life was built around Clark which makes her even more pathetic than she already is.

[Jeta]

Wolverine, I think the title of the thread means 4 years [of friendship] thrown out the window... not Chloe herself.

PS: And thanks a lot for the welcome ^^

[LODGE4]

If you people hated the Chloe mind wipe, how do you think you will feel when he does the same thing to Lois, Lana, Jimmy, Lex and everyone else who has even the slightest inclination to believe that Clark Kent has Super powers ??? After all, when he starts wearing the Superman suit everyone will know it's Clark Kent wearing a funny looking circus type costume if he doesn't !!!!!!!!! Personally I always knew what Jor-el did to Chloe was coming, and to protect Clark's secret he will have to do it to a whole lot of other people too.

[Hopefulsuicide]

We're all telling you. Knowing the secret puts her in "constant" danger. It has before, and it would again. And at this point, the dangers are so severe (ie. BrainIAC taking her over from the inside out) that this is the last straw. Anyone who loves Chloe will make this same decision. It's because Chloe is too close to Clark that she almost died. Now, Clark made the extremely difficult decision to push her away.

Some of us respect him for that. I certainly do. As hard as it would to push my dearest friend away, I would definitely do it if it meant to save her life. Even if I never see her again, I will at least know I gave her the chance to continue her life. this is how Clark see's his decision.

but your not telling me how she is in more danger, your just constantly repeating that she is

as Clark's friend, brainiac would have attacked her whether she knew the secret or not. do you think he cared about that? do you think any villain does?

[MozartRequiem]

"He was not being selfish because he believed, at that time, that the memory wipe would be in her best interests. Unfortunately, it will backfire and that just proves that she isn't any safer not knowing about his secret. That's one of the reasons I think she will regain her memories."

Exactly! I'm hoping the same thing, and that would be a good lesson to teach Clark for the future: not EVERYONE who knows his secret is doomed. Some people live BETTER lives after knowing his secret. Chloe is one of them. And that would be good foreshadowing, because in the future, Clark will tell Lois his secret. So it's good to teach him that lesson now.

[Hopefulsuicide]

You're being opinionated, not honest. To be honest, you'd have to look at the facts. The facts clearly tell us he did this for the safety of his friend. I can understand Chloe fans taking this the wrong way, I really can. But I can only take that at face value, which, as fans, isn't worth much since some people are biased towards Chloe's character development as opposed to Clark's character development.

technically the 'facts' are that he THINKS he is doing it for the saftey of his friend. at this point in time many arguements are being presented that suggest it doesnt actually bring her any safety

it's gotten to a point in this discussion where i have actually lost sight of Chloe's side in this arguement. all i care about right now is what they have made Clark into by having him make this decision. i have not seen a single person 'fanwaking'.

[Sv.LoisLane]

but how? seriously try and think of it logically instead of from a defend Clark point of view

yes, anyone around him is going to be in more danger the more famous he gets and the more he risks himself and his identity on a wider scale

how does her not knowing the secret actually make her any safer?

Well, for example, it will keep her from getting into trouble again like she did with Brainiac. You know, if she hadn't known Clark's secret she wouldn't have tried to stop Kara/Brainiac with that piece of Kryptonite and never got infected. In this way, she will be safer.

[Hopefulsuicide]

No truer words, my brother. Chloe knowing Clark's secret does have impact and consequences. All I'm hearing from the angry is loyalty for their favorite character. Which is alright, but not when the character impedes the progression of the main focused character. Lana cared enough about Clark to let him go, in her own words "I need you, but the world needs you more." That line, and Lana herself, put Chloe to shame. Chloe needs to love Clark enough to let him go, as Lana does, and as Clark does for Chloe herself. .

well i agree. it would have been great if Chloe has DECIDED to move on, for his good or for hers. but she didn't. and he isn't letting her go. he is still right there next to her putting her in danger on a daily basis just by being her friend every day. Lana left because his love for her was jepordising his ability to become anyone. but he has been doing more this season, attempting to help people. and Chloe has had her own seperate mission.

Exactly. I believe it was brave to. People need to understand that Abyss was an episode about sacrifice. A very important lesson that is a cornerstone in Clark Kents transition into the iconic Superman. The greatest heroes each have deep wounds. Some wounds they give to themselves. It's a necessary step in becoming so great. And personally, I'm glad there is so much controversy over this. Very rarely does anything Superman does in the comics or in movies cause this much emotion to flare. And as each day continues with us at odds, I believe more and more that Clark's decision with Chloe's memories was not only the right one, but also the best for the show. Some people may hate Smallville now, but I guarantee they will be at the edge of their seats come this Thursday. .[/QUOTE]

thing is, they did it in this totally wrong way, overlooking huge ethical problems. if he was going to learn about Sacrifice, it shouldn't have been him causing someone elses forced sacrifice... Chloe is forced to sacrifice her memories so that Clark Kent can learn about sacrifice? just wrong...



Exactly! Thank you. We all tuned in to see Clark Kent. No one knew who Chloe Sullivan was. She's made fans over the years, and lost some as well, but the one constant throughout 8 years has been Clark and the reason Smallville is the highest rated television show on it's network, which is his transition into becoming our worlds greatest hero. Frankly, I'm not interested in seeing Chloe becoming whatever it is she was supposed to. Which is all still sketchy right now... healing ability? Sounds great, but not if it kills her in the process.
.

if they killed her off i wouldn't be complaining. i'd be sad, but i wouldn't be angry or feel cheated. this isn't creating such passion in fans because 'its chloe and she's so great'. it's because not everyone agrees that what he did was right, for the best, or in any way supermanly

[Kalista]

Lana cared enough about Clark to let him go, in her own words "I need you, but the world needs you more." That line, and Lana herself, put Chloe to shame.

According to the sides, Lana was forced to make that video at gunpoint. So that was not her decision.

[4Clana]

I can't say anything else that will convince anyone. Right now he is not Superman so everything he does will cause others to suspect things about him and think there is more to him and will urge them to uncover the truth about him.

Notice how Lois was not specifically targeted by Brainiac. The only time she was ever threatened by him was when she was by circumstance on the plane that Martha was on. Brainiac had several opportunities to attack her after that and he never did. Why? Because she wasn't knee deep in Clark's secret or involved in his pursuit of Brainiac the way Chloe & Lana were. These are all facts. Clark said it himself. The more people know his secret, the more danger they're in. He mentioned Jonathan, Pete, Lex, and others by name.

How's he supposed to save the world if those closest to him are being used as instruments of blackmail to compromise any good he can do? This entire fiasco will prove why the Superman persona works and is absolutely needed. If Clark was already Superman, then Brainiac would have gone after Superman, not Clark, because Clark to him would be a human who he wouldn't have suspicions of & wouldn't appear on his radar.

I can't put it any better than this. If this is considered selfish, then I guess Clark/Superman saving the world is selfish, whereas never being able to save the world because he always has to be babysitting his friends because his enemies want to get at them to neutralize him is unselfish.

Seriously, if Chloe wasn't having her life erased by Brainiac & killing someone with powers she was never supposed to have, I would say Clark did a rotten thing. But almost everything in the past 8 years has held Clark back from becoming who he was meant to be. First it was Lex's curiosity of him. Then Lionel caught on and was all over Clark and hounded him. At the same time Lana was always hounding him for his secret. All these characters caused a lot of problems when they started digging. Clark had to watch his back with Lionel's obsession of him. He had to prevent Lex from finding out because of what Lionel would do to him. He had to protect Lana because her obsession of his secret got her nearly killed dozens of times. The latest statistic was Chloe. She ducked it for a while, but now even she was threatened. With the threat of Doomsday looming, it would be extremely stupid for them to have Clark be distracted with Chloe and the danger she could be in, especially when she's already extremely involved with Davis. The last thing Clark needs is for her to know his secret when Davis is going to try harder to get to her while he is transforming into Doomsday.
Awesome post!

[Lazy Boy]

No - not only it's a violation of her rights by removing memories without her consent but also it's a breach of trust.

I think the lesson that Clark is going to have to learn is that he can't save everybody, especially if that person is willing to take consequences of his/her actions. Like he said in Bloodline to Oliver, he can't control Chloe's life. Chloe knows the full extend of her responsibility to protect Clark's secret and when she puts her life on the line for him, she does so willingly. Clark will have to accept while he has the powers to save people's life, there are certain boundaries that he can't cross such as interfering with people's memories.

Clark did have good intentions but he needs to learn that his good intentions are not always the best for other people. He needs to learn how to use his powers wisely.

[Hopefulsuicide]

see i tend to agree with Xrayvision more often than not, and i do find myself agreeing with a lot of what is being said

yes, there are reasons for it, yes it is probably for the greater good, yes it is probably going to mean a very interesting storyline from here on

BUT... the price was too high... if the people Superman claims to love don't have a choice, then they are nothing, and IMO so is he

[loislanechick]

If you people hated the Chloe mind wipe, how do you think you will feel when he does the same thing to Lois, Lana, Jimmy, Lex and everyone else who has even the slightest inclination to believe that Clark Kent has Super powers ??? After all, when he starts wearing the Superman suit everyone will know it's Clark Kent wearing a funny looking circus type costume if he doesn't !!!!!!!!! Personally I always knew what Jor-el did to Chloe was coming, and to protect Clark's secret he will have to do it to a whole lot of other people too.

Personally, I've never liked the fact that all superheroes keep their identity secret from the people they love..I understand the whole "they have to protect them thing", but lois will get in trouble whether she knows clark's secret or not..and it is more interesting when at least one person knows the secret..look how many great scenes we have had with chloe and clark..So I don't like the fact that he takes their memories from them..he'll always be alone that way..Anyway, that's just my opinion :)

[Jeta]

I can't believe this unfair twist: so, thinking, thinking: I think Brainiac took the control of Fortress (through the blood drops, just a seconds before Chloe was healed) and manipulated the Chloe's mind in order to cheat Clark (he wouldn't leave the Fortress without a cure for her friend); so, when Clarks defeats Brainiac, Chloe will have all memories back. Jor-El didn't heal Chloe.

[Demien]

yes and he also have to learn to trust close person like chloe lois and so.......he can't his secret for ever from everyone.....if he want to have normal life once he have to learn how to trust people that he love and who loves him.....that is my opinion about Clark and thing that he's doing

[RedKRules]

No, Clark only thought about himself on that moment!

[ekoo]

No - not only it's a violation of her rights by removing memories without her consent but also it's a breach of trust.

I think the lesson that Clark is going to have to learn is that he can't save everybody, especially if that person is willing to take consequences of his/her actions. Like he said in Bloodline to Oliver, he can't control Chloe's life. Chloe knows the full extend of her responsibility to protect Clark's secret and when she puts her life on the line for him, she does so willingly. Clark will have to accept while he has the powers to save people's life, there are certain boundaries that he can't cross such as interfering with people's memories.

Clark did have good intentions but he needs to learn that his good intentions are not always the best for other people. He needs to learn how to use his powers wisely.

I agree. I get Clark did what he did but that doesn't make it right.

[Kevin24]

What Clark did was in his opinion the right thing to do but it's true that if I was in Chloe's shoes I wouldn't want my memory to have missing pieces. I always figure it's better to have knowledge then not to have knowledge at all.

Clark made a great sacrifice and just wanted the best for Chloe and wanted her to live a danger and stress free life. Basically he wanted her to have a normal life. I do believe he did not think it through and only saw what was in front of him. He just saw that she was suffering because she knew his secert. Jor-el agreed with his decision because he doesn't want Humans holding him back from fulfilling his destiny.

As of right now you are in danger if you just know who Clark Kent is and this is leading to him realizing more and more that he needs a double identity. He needs to separate Clark Kent from his Krpytionan side. I think what is happening with Chloe will show him that very lesson that even though she doesn't know his secret she is sitll in danger just for knowing him.

I believe that is the lesson he is going to learn with what happened in Abyss. I also think once Chloe gets her memory back she might give him a lecture for taking her memories away. Alot like she did when he memorized the list of Meteor Freaks in "Prey"

[Kalista]

I also think once Chloe gets her memory back she might give him a lecture for taking her memories away. Alot like she did when he memorized the list of Meteor Freaks in "Prey"

I would really enjoy seeing such a scene.

[Clarky123]

Chloe was clarks weakness besides kryptonite! Cmon lads she was the weak link!

[oldblackmagick]

To me it felt a little bit like chloe actually did die. there is part of her that is gone and it was a kinda big part. Now her bestest friend (she's only got like 3 friends) is going to be lying to her all the time. Plus the way her memories were ripped from her by brainiac was all very sad and how AM played chloe broke my heart. Johnathan dying was the saddest thing for me until now. his death was fast and it would have been more surprising and upsetting if it would have happened in that season three ep hereafter(where the kid sees how people die) cause i was bawling at the end of that cause i had never seen it coming and i thought he was dead. In short it wasn't the saddest moment ever it really hit me hard. Clark can't even be her friend now because really he has no idea who she is anymore just the same as she has no idea about him. He knows that she is a good person but her mission...her dreams...and her friend was taken from her. So i ask you...Who is Chloe Sullivan??

just to be clear tho I still love this show and this was so far my favorite episode...maybe ever. I am saddened by the events of this ep but it's okay to be sad and still like something. I think it's a credit to the writers of this ep cause this was something i was sure i was gonna hate and somehow they drew me in and i fell in love...i understand why it had to happen but my only problem is now they better not let lois or anyone else find out his secret before chloe remembers or that is really stupid. to say he did it to protect her and then tell someone else would be a slap in the face IMO

[AChloeChick]

I may be crazy and completely off my rocker, but I can see where and how the memory wipe won't last.

From the spoilers, We know the threat of Brainiac - who has taken over Chloe's body - brings three super-heroes from the future back to the past. Eventually they work together to try and separate Chloe from her Brainiac side.

Also, somewhere else I read Clark sent them back to undo/correct a wrong. Could that wrong be taking Chloe to the FOS and having Jorel rework her memories? Is it possible the Legion will come in at the exact time Clark is about to take Chloe to the FOS? If so, then time wouldn't necessarily be rolled back/change, but that one point in time would be done differently. Thus, the Legion will separate Chloe from Brainaic and the events post the Abyss FOS scene will be rendered never to have happened.

I don't know a lot about comic books, so I could be (probably am) off my rocker. It's just a thought.

IF this happens, what about Lana's sudden reappearance? We know from one of the Bride trailers that Ollie is the one to bring Lana back due to the email/computer interactions that were tracked down. Since this is the case, Ollie may have unknowingly contacted Lana and that's what could bring her back to SV. Beside, Geoff Johns has said KK Kristin Kreuk has a "powerful" and "heartfelt" scene. Could this be her dear Joh video explanation all over again?

Again, it's just some thoughts banging around in my head.

I just want REAL Chloe and REAL Chlark back. They're relationship is the best one I've ever seen on TV, in movies, or read in a book.

[Kevin24]

I expect their relationship to be like it was from Seasons 1-4. They were still good friends and Clark came to her for help on certain leads he had gotten. Only now Chloe will more then likely have her own storylines that don't revolve around Clark. She will probably start looking to get back to journalism.

[oldblackmagick]

^^^Not at the DP. They took that from her by way of Lex. I think that she will regain her memory but if she does then death is almost assured for her character. Lana might not even be able to beat the death by knowing the secret thing. A long time ago it was said the only truly safe ones are Clark Lex and Lois. Everyone else is apparently fair game...maybe even Jimmy...

[SandyV]

People need to understand that Abyss was an episode about sacrifice. A very important lesson that is a cornerstone in Clark Kents transition into the iconic Superman. The greatest heroes each have deep wounds. Some wounds they give to themselves. It's a necessary step in becoming so great. And personally, I'm glad there is so much controversy over this. Very rarely does anything Superman does in the comics or in movies cause this much emotion to flare. And as each day continues with us at odds, I believe more and more that Clark's decision with Chloe's memories was not only the right one, but also the best for the show. Some people may hate Smallville now, but I guarantee they will be at the edge of their seats come this Thursday.

The writers are actually challenging themselves to write greater stories! Without Super Chloogle, they can't make things easy for Clark. He will have to show us more semblance of that iconic hero, and not simply run to Chloe for guidance or help. Another win for PS3.

Thank you for the different view point. I agree that it is a good idea to take away Super Chloogle, I am still in shock and disbelief about the memory loss, though. Taking away Chloe's memories throwes so much in the air. I too am waiting to see where all the pieces will fall. I will totally sitting on the edge of my seat this Thursday.

[Jeta]

What?!? Sacrifice? Sacrifice is easy when the sacrificed person is other: in this case, Chloe an her memories!

Like I've said in other thread: It wasn't a Clark's decission. Chloe is an adult person and she MUST choose what is better for herself. Clark hasn't any rights nor moral authority to delete memories of others without permission.

[oldblackmagick]

^^^He didn't delete them. Brainiac took the memories from her and clark had jor-el rebuild those memories but not all of them...still not right but he didn't remove them just to clarify:)

[Jeta]

Not get back her memories is not stealing them? Really? XD

If someone steals your wallet and later I find it in the street but I keep 5 bucks before get back to you, I'm not stealing you, is it? XDDDD

[Hopefulsuicide]

i'm so tired of people defending him on the basis he thought he was doing the right thing

Lex thought he wad doing the right thing when he used the device to control the traveler... does that excuse him?

People can convince themselves that anything is right, based on 'the ends justify the means' arguement. The kind of people that kill doctors who perform abortions... they think they are doing it for the greater good. But it's insanity! It's still murder.

Just like this is still immoral, despite any reasoning

[oldblackmagick]

Ok i love chloe and i love chlark and to watch her lose those memories were so sad that it broke my heart and i don't think it was right but you can kinda see why he did it. After seeing how happy she could be without his secret (Apocalypse last year) i for one was not surprised he took this chance. I will be very upset if she doesn't remmeber or find out again but i love how this story is going and i am willing to see it through.

[Kevin24]

i'm so tired of people defending him on the basis he thought he was doing the right thing

Lex thought he wad doing the right thing when he used the device to control the traveler... does that excuse him?

People can convince themselves that anything is right, based on 'the ends justify the means' arguement. The kind of people that kill doctors who perform abortions... they think they are doing it for the greater good. But it's insanity! It's still murder.

Just like this is still immoral, despite any reasoning

It's because you can defend his reasoning behind his actions. I am tired of people not giving Clark the benefit of the doubt. Clark did not kill Chloe like Lex has done several times when he says "the ends Justify the means". He truly was looking out for her and Lex was looking out for numbero uno and planned on killing Clark.

Clark did not restore all of her memories just to be an ass and laugh about it. He didn't do it because he wanted to show Chloe that he is superior to her and he proves it by not restoring all her memories. He did it because he truely believed it was for the best. It's easy to sit back and judge when you aren't in that persons shoes.

In my opinion sometimes the ends do justify the means. If I had to kill one person to save millions I would kill that person. True, I'd be a murderer but I did save millions of lives.

Sometimes people have to make judgement calls and Clark made a judgement call. You can disagree with it but to say he is a bad person because of it is very off.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Lex thought he was protecting the whole world! he wasn't thinking about himself, he thought the traveler was a danger

and i never said Clark did it because he wanted to laugh about it. I agree with what your saying, of why he did it. But it doesn't excuse what he did.

yes he made a judgement call, but the point i am trying to make is that it was NEVER HIS to make... it was Chloe's! nobody gave him the right to make decisions for other people, and just because he has super powers and a fortress in the artic, doesn't mean he gets to

p.s. the kill one person to save millions is a very very hard arguement. it's impossible to decide what you would do in that situation. Lex thought he was killing someone to save millions... doesn't make him a hero or a villain, just makes him very misguided

[WickedJenn]

MOD NOTE:

PLEASE remember rule #10:

10) DISCUSSION ON THIS BOARD SHOULD AT ALL TIMES BE ABOUT THE SHOWS THEMSELVES OR THE FORUM TOPIC AT HAND.. To that end the following threads or discussions are strictly prohibited:
- Threads or discussions designed solely to insult another group of fans, such as threads about why people like one character more than another
- Insulting fans of a character, ship, or differing viewpoint, including couched insults hidden behind jokes, sarcasm, silly banter, or Emoticons
- Psychoanalyzing other fans or posters views, which includes any remarks regarding another members frame of mind or sanity. At ABSOLUTELY NO time is it appropriate to tell another poster that they are in denial or delusional

[Kevin24]

From Lex's point of View he was in the right. Too bad we know both sides of the story and that is why we know he was very misguided in what he was doing. He wasn't doing what he was doing for noble reasons at first but I think in his own delusional world he sees himself as a hero. He has the right things in mind it's just the way he tries to get it done is very very very wrong lol.

I agree that he shouldn't have done what he did because techicanlly Chloe was already saved. So what he did was not really nesscary but he felt it was. I just think this storyline is going to prove to Clark that he needs to have a double identitiy and just knowing him puts people he knows in danger wether they know his secert or not.

I know some people are happy about it but I am not because it saddened me to see what happened. I felt for Clark and for Chloe and I don't agree with the reasoning that since she isn't in the comics she doesn't deserve to know >_<

I think she will remember and will probably lecture Clark like she did in "Prey" about the meteor freak thing.

I do agree that it was Chloe's call to make......reminds me of the end of Spiderman 2 when Mary Jane told Peter it was her choice and not his . Very different but similiar lol

[Hopefulsuicide]

can i ask who or what this is directed at? i hate feeling like i might have done something wrong but i can't see what it is... don't wanna make the same mistake twice

[WickedJenn]

I posted the note because I've seen a lot of that going on in the last couple pages. I posted a general note as a reminder to everyone.

[Hopefulsuicide]

okay thanks :)

[Liquid-Prince]

She will get her memories back, don't worry.

[Hopefulsuicide]

From Lex's point of View he was in the right. Too bad we know both sides of the story and that is why we know he was very misguided in what he was doing. He wasn't doing what he was doing for noble reasons at first but I think in his own delusional world he sees himself as a hero. He has the right things in mind it's just the way he tries to get it done is very very very wrong lol.

I agree that he shouldn't have done what he did because techicanlly Chloe was already saved. So what he did was not really nesscary but he felt it was. I just think this storyline is going to prove to Clark that he needs to have a double identitiy and just knowing him puts people he knows in danger wether they know his secert or not.

I know some people are happy about it but I am not because it saddened me to see what happened. I felt for Clark and for Chloe and I don't agree with the reasoning that since she isn't in the comics she doesn't deserve to know >_<

I think she will remember and will probably lecture Clark like she did in "Prey" about the meteor freak thing.

I do agree that it was Chloe's call to make......reminds me of the end of Spiderman 2 when Mary Jane told Peter it was her choice and not his . Very different but similiar lol

agreed on all parts :lol:

i wish i could fast forward to what's going to happen from now on. it's hard argueing without having the full picture

[Pantalaimon]

Hopefulsuicide:
i'm so tired of people defending him on the basis he thought he was doing the right thing

Lex thought he wad doing the right thing when he used the device to control the traveler... does that excuse him? thing
I think the important distinction here is that Clark was not just doing 'what he thought was the right thing' he was actually prepared to sacrifice for it. He can no longer confide in Chloe, which means loneliness for him.

Further, although I agree the morality behind his choice is questionable, you could also argue that leaving those memories would be selfish and thus immoral. Either way, it was a difficult choice and it seems to me there was no 'good' solution.

Anyway, there is still half a season to go and I dare say Chloe herself will have a say in this matter before all is said and done.

[Hopefulsuicide]

if he had decided to leave the decision up to her that would not have been selfish, it would have been respectful

and Lex was sacrificing in his reasoning too. what does the line 'i love you like a brother Clark, but it has to be this way' mean if it doesn't mean he was sacrificing his best friend to save the world?

yes Clark sacrificed Chloe, and now he will be lonelier because of it... that's why i think he's such an idiot. it's like he's doing this self sacrificing bit, and paying for it, but the reasoning behind it is so flawed that it makes him look like a BDA

[umm]

see this i gotta disagree with :lol:Dean Cain's superman makes Angel look like a wannabe hero. But they are totally different heroes. That's why i said the quote wasn't so much a comparison as a good wording of how i feel.
Of course, Angel makes Smallville's superman look like a BDA. Heck even Spike has more principals than that.


He sure does! Right now, Spike has a whole lot more spine and principals than Clark apparantly will ever atain, cos once again, one step forward, five steps back! And let's not even talk about Angel, who makes Clark look like a toyhero, in every sense of the word!!!

[Kevin24]

I liked Angel but he has done somethings as well as spike. All three have done things that many wouldn't consider great.

Angel and Clark are heroes in their own worlds. I can't comment on Spike because I stopped watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer once Angel left the show.

[oldblackmagick]

I can't comment on Spike because I stopped watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer once Angel left the show.

Those were some good years. Not cool Kevin...not cool:p:lol:

[Kevin24]

Those were some good years. Not cool Kevin...not cool:p:lol:

LOL, Well Angel was my favorite part of the show and once he left so did my interest of the show. I did watch the spin-off series though. Crazy how both Buffy and Angel saved the world so many times in different ways in the same universe :lol:

I honestly did not give Buffy the Vampire Slayer a chance after he left and the only reason I started watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer was because of the movie of the same name...:o

[umm]

LOL, Well Angel was my favorite part of the show and once he left so did my interest of the show. I did watch the spin-off series though. Crazy how both Buffy and Angel saved the world so many times in different ways in the same universe :lol:
I honestly did not give Buffy the Vampire Slayer a chance after he left and the only reason I started watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer was because of the movie of the same name...:o

I have always thought Angel was way better than Buffy, Moonlight or any other show featuring vampires and demons! Supernatural I don't count cos that show is great on it's own, just like Smallville is! Right now, it is the actions of writers and the main character I find ethicly debatable and questionable!
And I feel like the history it's repeating it's self! On Angel we had Angel and Cordythe dynamic duo, and once Cordy was gone, and she was pretty much gone the last two seasons, the show went crap for the most part!
Here on Smallville, we also have an dynamic due, whether some people like to admit it or not! It may have not been inteded so, but it developed so over the years and Smallville became more about Clark and Chloe that just Clark, and frankly why does that have to be a bad thing? I mean behind every strong man, vampire or alien, stands an even stronger woman!
So the way they have cut Chloe out of the picture, will cripple Smallville's,Clark's and Chloe's future development, and as far as Chloe, I really can't imagine having the wish to watch her on Smallville, without her memories back! She will be like a whole different person, I am sure I won't like one bit!

[Lazy Boy]

As of right now you are in danger if you just know who Clark Kent is and this is leading to him realizing more and more that he needs a double identity. He needs to separate Clark Kent from his Krpytionan side. I think what is happening with Chloe will show him that very lesson that even though she doesn't know his secret she is sitll in danger just for knowing him.

I definitely agree with that point where he needs a double identity. Time to bring on the glasses me thinks!

[Just Another Guy]

I would like to clarify that I am open-minded to this, and I do think it can make for a great story. Sadly, now that it's been done, the only way I think Chloe can be treated the same is for her simply to have her memories restored. Even to have her find out all over again wouldn't be the same. She still wouldn't remember her own experiences.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I mean behind every strong man, vampire or alien, stands an even stronger woman!

:lol: i have been thinking about posting this for ages, but held off because i knew people would just start going on about how Lois is the great women behind Clark

Angel and Cordy are a great comparison for Clark and Chloe. In fact, look at the episode Birthday.

Cordy was literally dying. She was in a coma and if she didnt give up her visions, she would never wake up. Angel went to find help, and yes, because he life was in IMMEDIATE danger he tried to bargain with the powers to get rid of her powers (though not her memories. it wasn't like he was going to completely get her out of his world no matter how dangerous cause that's not up to him). However, this decision IS NOT granted to him. Cordelia is given the decision, and between death and life she chooses Life.

In this new life of hers she is a star, a total diva, and remembers nothing of the last 3 yars. However, the powers didn't count on Cordy's mind holding onto some sense of those memories, as the memory of her last vision starts to plague her and she ends up figuring out an adress and saving a girl from a monter with the help of wesley and gun. Angel is insane in a dark room in this reality and he has the visions. Cordy seeing this kisses him, taking the visions into herself and undoing the whole life rewrite. As her memories come back to her, she knows the truth. Helping Angel is who she is, it's who she is supposed to be. It doesn't matter that humans were never meant to have the visions, they are hers. Angel is the most important thing in her life. So they figure out a compromise, making her a demon.

NOW THAT is a sacrifice story.

[Lazy Boy]

I would like to clarify that I am open-minded to this, and I do think it can make for a great story. Sadly, now that it's been done, the only way I think Chloe can be treated the same is for her simply to have her memories restored. Even to have her find out all over again wouldn't be the same. She still wouldn't remember her own experiences.

I agree.
I think this episode will be an important lesson for Clark in the sense that no matter how good his intentions are, they might not be in the best interest of others.

[RedKRules]

exactly .... he can´t decide things for others, pretending it is his owns !!!

[SnowBird]

I wonder if Chloe fans would be as worked up if any other character on Smallville would get their memories selectively restored. I think that those that are debating the morality of it all would be on the quiet side if it were someone else, imo. The Chloe character is very lucky to have such a loyal fan base.

[Just Another Guy]

I wonder if Chloe fans would be as worked up if any other character on Smallville would get their memories selectively restored. I think that those that are debating the morality of it all would be on the quiet side if it were someone else, imo. The Chloe character is very lucky to have such a loyal fan base.
True enough. The problem is, what could compare to this? If Lana had forgotten her marriage to Lex? I wouldn't have liked that either, but I wasn't NEARLY as attached to Lana and Lex's marriage as I was Chloe and Clark's camaraderie. But the difference is, it wouldn't have changed the show. It would have changed Lana. Given the role that Chloe plays, very few things could have altered the show quite like this.

You're right though. A HUGE part of my distaste for this is simply because it's Chloe, and she seems the most deserving of something better.

[unfocused]

Seeing as this discussion has turned into off-topic silly vampire talk, I've lost interest in it.

All I have to say is Clark's decision was indeed immoral. It wasn't his to make. But given the circumstances, Chloe almost dying and Doom inching closer, it was the right decision. Although, it may have been too late, this decision probably should have been considered years ago. Not by Clark, of course.

It was immoral of him. But with that aside, Chloe's mindwipe, no matter who did it to her, was the best thing to happen to her.

[RedKRules]

If it was the best thing, then I am really scared about what would be the worst ......

[unfocused]

Chloe dying would probably be the worst. Second to that would be Clark and Chloe ending their friendship on a sour note.

[Clarkgirl8]

If it was the best thing, then I am really scared about what would be the worst ......

^I know! :\ How can it be the best thing when he just wiped away the best moments in her life?? again IMO she's not more safe cause she won't know what to do

[Hopefulsuicide]

I wonder if Chloe fans would be as worked up if any other character on Smallville would get their memories selectively restored. I think that those that are debating the morality of it all would be on the quiet side if it were someone else, imo. The Chloe character is very lucky to have such a loyal fan base.

i don't know about everyone else but i'm not angry because of my love of chloe, im angry because of his abuse of power

so yeah, ANYONE else and i would still be angry. If he had made Lex forget about him being the Traveler... he would be no better than Lionel making Lex forget about truth of the death of his grandparents in season 3... it's just wrong

but yes, chloe does have a very dedicated fanbase, and i can't understand why the writers continue to piss them off :lol:

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


Seeing as this discussion has turned into off-topic silly vampire talk, I've lost interest in it.

All I have to say is Clark's decision was indeed immoral. It wasn't his to make. But given the circumstances, Chloe almost dying and Doom inching closer, it was the right decision. Although, it may have been too late, this decision probably should have been considered years ago. Not by Clark, of course.

It was immoral of him. But with that aside, Chloe's mindwipe, no matter who did it to her, was the best thing to happen to her.

well i don't think that a couple of comparisons to angel, in order to show what other shows have done in the face of similar situations is silly or off topic

but anyway

will you still think he made the right decisions if she dies as a direct result of her not knowing his secret?

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


Chloe dying would probably be the worst. Second to that would be Clark and Chloe ending their friendship on a sour note.

isn't that what it's going to lead to to... if she finds out what he did...

[RedKRules]

^I know! :\ How can it be the best thing when he just wiped away the best moments in her life?? again IMO she's not more safe cause she won't know what to do

I know what you mean, I really really hope this is just a temporary sintuation :(:(:(

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----




isn't that what it's going to lead to to... if she finds out what he did...

That is what I fear.

[unfocused]

will you still think he made the right decisions if she dies as a direct result of her not knowing his secret?
That outcome is not likely. So I can say, with utter confidence, yes.


isn't that what it's going to lead to to... if she finds out what he did...I don't know. I don't read spoilers.

[Hopefulsuicide]

if it was a spoiler, i wouldn't have posted it here. it is just a maybe.

so if Chloe DIES because of his decision, you will still say he made the right one? i really am starting to think you would defend him if he pushed Chloe off a cliff...

[Just Another Guy]

i don't know about everyone else but i'm not angry because of my love of chloe, im angry because of his abuse of power

so yeah, ANYONE else and i would still be angry. If he had made Lex forget about him being the Traveler... he would be no better than Lionel making Lex forget about truth of the death of his grandparents in season 3... it's just wrong
I'll have to respectfully disagree with that. Erasing Lex's memory would be completely different. That's not violating his rights, it's saving everyone around him-- the lives of the people Lex would threaten to get what he wants from Clark, and the lives of those that Clark wouldn't be able to save as a result of Lex's manipulation. Saying that would be no better than what Lionel did is like saying that prison is an unfair lack of freedom for Charles Manson.

Comparing Chloe to Lex is just wrong.

[Hopefulsuicide]

i take back that it would be no better than what Lionel did, as his motivations were purely selfish

however, i still hold that i would be angry if he took Lex's memories. i understand your saying that lots of people would be better off. but then why doesn't Superman just take his memories in every incarnation? or say Lex is in an accident and Superman just doesnt save him... or heck, why doesnt he just kill him?

there are lines that our hero won't cross. taking someone's memories should be one of those lines, whether friend or villain

[davidbrenton]

i hust wanted to say, I read this topic before i saw the episode so it took a little punch out of it for me...I know, it's my fault. Just thought i'd share.

[unfocused]

Thanks for sharing.


if it was a spoiler, i wouldn't have posted it here. it is just a maybe.
In that case, maybe not. lol.

By the way, comparing Chloe to Lex is just wrong. :lol:

[LODGE4]

^^^Not at the DP. They took that from her by way of Lex. I think that she will regain her memory but if she does then death is almost assured for her character. Lana might not even be able to beat the death by knowing the secret thing. A long time ago it was said the only truly safe ones are Clark Lex and Lois. Everyone else is apparently fair game...maybe even Jimmy...

Lana cannot die in the Smallville series - She's in Superman III and the show follows the Christopher Reeves movies pretty faithfully.

[Lazy Boy]

All I have to say is Clark's decision was indeed immoral. It wasn't his to make. But given the circumstances, Chloe almost dying and Doom inching closer, it was the right decision. Although, it may have been too late, this decision probably should have been considered years ago. Not by Clark, of course.

It was immoral of him. But with that aside, Chloe's mindwipe, no matter who did it to her, was the best thing to happen to her.

Well Chloe will disagree with that last bit :lol:

Regarding your above post, the problems is that:

1. Davis Bloome is already in love with her and I don't think his alter self is going to be a emotionaless as he is made out in the comic books. The trailer suggest that Doomsday does recognised Chloe so her having the mind wipe does not put her out of danger at all.

2. Chloe made it very clear that she is willing to take the fall for Clark so whether he like it or not, it was her decision to make. If she dies protecting Clark and his secret she does so with the full knowledge that knowing such secrets will have grave consequences.

Clark is just going to have to recognised that even with all of his powers at his disposal, he cannot play God when it comes to interferring with other people's decision, no matter how much he dislike it.

[unfocused]

I'm not going to read the spoiler part of your post.

No, Clark/Superman should not play God, no matter how powerful he is or becomes. Regarding your number 2, I agree to an extent. But it is Clark's secret, and Clark's decision to allow Chloe to fight by his side. And since she did choose to fight by his side, she became his responsibility. I know you may hate me for saying what I'm going to say next, many people might, and I won't blame you... but I believe since Chloe was his responsibility, Clark had every right to make that decision for her.

[Kevin24]

Were people this upset when the Meteor freak zapped Lois and Sheriff Adams of Clark's secret? I think it was season 4 in the epsiode Blank.