The Abyss "Plothole/ Continuity" Discussion thread

[Bella882]

I saw it coming, but seriously what a cheap cop out.

Chloe forgets four years worth of memories associated post Clark's secret, yet her current memory is A-ok with no bump in the road with no immediate lasting effects to the giant gap in her memory?

[Razzle]

I agree, it seems like a big waste of four years just to have it go down like that, and how the hell are they gunna explain next week when Clark goes up against Doomsday or the entire season...

[unfocused]

Ah, the mind wipe ability, very awesome.

[msjade16]

Ditto, Bella! I thought the same thing. But this iiissss Smallville, plotholes are a dime a dozen.:\

[hemmy]

I'm glad they did it.

Probably filled those memories with something else

[Vergon6]

Jor-El pulled a Cyvus Vale, who fixed all of Angel's friends memories so they would forget his son, Connor.

[BobMalooga]

I hate to say this...but there is a plot-hole in this episode that would allow her to regain most, if not all of her knowledge immediately.

They never had Clark (on screen...) deal with Chloe's crib sheets...

Keith

[Kal-El-073]

That will have been taken care of on offscreenville.

[TWLOVER03]

crib sheets?

[boywithbluehanger]

Much rather the plothole than a heroic death...that's been played out. Just memory wipe her and put us all out of our misery. AlMiles had milked the Chloe cow for all it's worth. Its time for some fresh stories that don't involve Clark finishing Chloe's sentences and Chloe googling stuff.

[Aries83]

The files on the computers at the Isis Foundation...I didn't think of that...

[oqllcksmallville]

LOL , oh yeah . = P

[Tone]

I was thinkin bout thaat too, what alls been erased? Meterior Freaks as well?

[Tatiana]

true...and if she is still infected by brainiac, wouldn't he make her remember again? maybe to attack him

[Khyla]

Seriously!

Isn't chloe gonna wonder now why she isn't working at the Daily Planet??

Isn't she gonna wonder why she was working there and got fired?

[Dor el]

Did crib sheets show Clark's abilities? I didn't see that if they did. Crib sheets shouldn't be a problem even if someone forgot to remove them.

[Dor el]

The only memory she no longer has, is the memory of Clark's secret. Everything else is still intact.

[Kschreck]

Yeah this has been bothering me to. There has been a lot of loopholes in the story as of lately. I wish the writers could be a little more careful about this. Maybe it will be better explain in later episodes or maybe it won't.

[Ardiem3]

Are you guys seriously complaing about Clark making the choice to forget about her knowing of his abilities to keep her safe? Come on... If she hadnt of known about Clark, Brainiac wouldnt have infected her, and she would never have been put into danger those times in the past as well... He did it so that he wouldnt put her in those spots anymore...

[DontCha]

well I hate to say it but

Apocalypse hinted that this was the way things were gonna go with her

she does not belong in his future, and she had no idea about his secret and she was HAPPY and SAFE and CONTENT marrying the man of her dreams.

[eas]

well I hate to say it but

Apocalypse hinted that this was the way things were gonna go with her

she does not belong in his future, and she had no idea about his secret and she was HAPPY and SAFE and CONTENT marrying the man of her dreams.

Yeah, you're right. I didn't even make that connection... it's like Clark brought about THAT Chloe. Interesting.

Well, they've been hinting at it for awhile now... he's been saying for weeks now that he'd give anything to make it that Chloe didn't know his secret. The opportunity presented itself... and he took it. It was as simple as that, I guess.

It is a bit odd, though, that - just last week - he was talking to Kara about how Lois was LESS safe by not knowing his secret... and when Kara told him that he should tell Lois (that a part of him already wanted to, or he wouldn't have let Lois get so close) and he kind of nodded his head... he agreed with Kara about Lois. And, yet, he takes away Chloe's memory of his secret just a week later....

I don't get it... either they're safe KNOWING or not knowing -- but the rules should kind of be the same.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


Seriously!

Isn't chloe gonna wonder now why she isn't working at the Daily Planet??

Isn't she gonna wonder why she was working there and got fired?

Well, I think she'll probably remember that she was hiding something from Lex and he fired her.

Jorel could have made it so that he re-wired some things when he was in there.... perhaps fudged up existing memories.

But, yeah, there are a lot of plot-holes, here. I mean, it was basically the whole focus of her character for 4 years... knowing Clark's secret and being his sidekick. That's A LOT of memories he erased there. I mean, it's not like she just found out the secret last week or something.

[Khyla]

Are you guys seriously complaing about Clark making the choice to forget about her knowing of his abilities to keep her safe? Come on... If she hadnt of known about Clark, Brainiac wouldnt have infected her, and she would never have been put into danger those times in the past as well... He did it so that he wouldnt put her in those spots anymore...

I'm not complaining . I think it was a very noble thing for him to do.

What I'm talking about is that the events surrounding CLark's secret are directly related to why she was fired from the Daily Planet, AND WHY HER COUSIN WAS HIRED!

I would think she will be seriously questioning that.

[jqedward]

Yeah, you're right. I didn't even make that connection... it's like Clark brought about THAT Chloe. Interesting.

Well, they've been hinting at it for awhile now... he's been saying for weeks now that he'd give anything to make it that Chloe didn't know his secret. The opportunity presented itself... and he took it. It was as simple as that, I guess.

It is a bit odd, though, that - just last week - he was talking to Kara about how Lois was LESS safe by not knowing his secret... and when Kara told him that he should tell Lois (that a part of him already wanted to, or he wouldn't have let Lois get so close) and he kind of nodded his head... he agreed with Kara about Lois. And, yet, he takes away Chloe's memory of his secret just a week later....

I don't get it... either they're safe KNOWING or not knowing -- but the rules should kind of be the same.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----



Well, I think she'll probably remember that she was hiding something from Lex and he fired her.

Jorel could have made it so that he re-wired some things when he was in there.... perhaps fudged up existing memories.

But, yeah, there are a lot of plot-holes, here. I mean, it was basically the whole focus of her character for 4 years... knowing Clark's secret and being his sidekick. That's A LOT of memories he erased there. I mean, it's not like she just found out the secret last week or something.

I'm guessing their logic there is that Lois is part of the Superman mythos and Chloe is not. She was created for this show. Lois is Clark/Superman's wife in the comics.

[Khyla]

...
It is a bit odd, though, that - just last week - he was talking to Kara about how Lois was LESS safe by not knowing his secret... and when Kara told him that he should tell Lois (that a part of him already wanted to, or he wouldn't have let Lois get so close) and he kind of nodded his head... he agreed with Kara about Lois. And, yet, he takes away Chloe's memory of his secret just a week later....

I don't get it... either they're safe KNOWING or not knowing -- but the rules should kind of be the same.
good point.


Jorel could have made it so that he re-wired some things when he was in there.... perhaps fudged up existing memories.

But, yeah, there are a lot of plot-holes, here. I mean, it was basically the whole focus of her character for 4 years... knowing Clark's secret and being his sidekick. That's A LOT of memories he erased there. I mean, it's not like she just found out the secret last week or something.
yeah it seems that Jor-El must have some serious magic up his sleeve .... when the writers need it :\

[Diego*Chloe]

Are you guys seriously complaing about Clark making the choice to forget about her knowing of his abilities to keep her safe? Come on... If she hadnt of known about Clark, Brainiac wouldnt have infected her, and she would never have been put into danger those times in the past as well... He did it so that he wouldnt put her in those spots anymore...


Well she has been in danger since S1 before knowing the secret so....

[eas]

yeah it seems that Jor-El must have some serious magic up his sleeve .... when the writers need it :\

Yeah, but they better explain it. I mean... I don't know... it seems like they just want to sweep things under the rug.

This has actually been one of my worst fears about the Brianiac arc and "Legion"... that once the Legion leaves, we'll have plot holes the size of Texas... and they have no intention of explaining it all. Speaking of which -- isn't Chloe supposed to get over-taken by Brainiac in "Bride"? And, then, the Legion comes to the past to fix the events of "Bride"? Chloe will probably get all her memories back by the end of "Legion", I bet.

[DontCha]

The plothole the size of the football picth is NOTHING in comparison to the HUGE loose end created when they let Chloe know his secret, and for so damn long too

Chloe: a non mythos character knowing the secret for so long was quite possibly the. biggest. loose. end. EVER. created in Smallville history. One that should have been tied up years ago..it was a huge mess that needed to be tidied away before he could become superman and they've done it. And now he can move forward.

thank god clark has no crutch and as a bonus its one less thing Chloe has on Lois

now as it stands in season 8:

Lois and clark are technically closer than Clark and Chloe are.

im happy about that I know lots aren't but it means Ps3 are being serious about his destiny now.

its fantastic, beautiful to see.

and I absolutley adore how one episode before Clark is realizing that he he would tell lois his secret, the way chloe learned was a violation of his privacy it was not his choice at all. But it will be his choice to tell Lois as was hinted one episode earlier.

[eas]

I'm not complaining . I think it was a very noble thing for him to do.

What I'm talking about is that the events surrounding CLark's secret are directly related to why she was fired from the Daily Planet, AND WHY HER COUSIN WAS HIRED!

I would think she will be seriously questioning that.

Why would Jorel erase the memory of Lois being hired by Grant b/c of her alien spaceship article? (And, please, let's not turn this into a Lois-bashing thing. For argument's sake, let's all pretend that Lois was hired for the reason that Grant told us.)

Anyway... why would Jor-el fool with those memories? Chloe can remember that and still not realize that it has anything to do with Clark's secret. Lois almost got hit by a barn door and got a job at the Inquisitor. She saw what she thought was a spaceship and wrote an article about that, which got her hired at the DP.

But Lois had nothing to do with her firing, so that's really the only plot-hole in that scenario. That did come down to hiding a key from Lex... and that would have to screwed around with a little.

[Storm45]

Is Chloe is going to remember Justice League? Watchtower? Will she share awkward scenes with oliver where he must be careful not to spill anything?

Mostly will she remember why she was fired from the Daily Planet for the second time and what she was doing in the DP since season 5?

[Hugo]

As much as I enjoyed this new episode (the Clark/ Chloe fortress stuff was awesome) I had some major problems with it. I would even consider it my least favorite episode of the series because of these three things:

1. Dax-Ur (Marc McClure) created Brainiac (James Marsters) not Jor-El.

2. Clark and Chloe looked to be around 11 in the flashback (circa 1998), which would place it three years before the pilot in continuity. Clark’s powers had not manifested at that time back in ‘98 ,but he super sped off to get Chloe a book at the library. (Okay, so maybe Brainiac took bits and pieces of Chloe’s memory and created another version of it, which hadn’t really taken place, or he maybe he had just made one up for fun?) I’ll give the writers the benefit of the doubt on that, but nevertheless Clark shouldn’t have been able to use his super speed.

3. Smallville is “just outside the city” this fact was established by Lionel in Season 7 right before the helicopter ride with Lex to Smallville, meaning it’s around a 45-mintue drive to and from there. It is not a two hours drive, like Chloe said to Clark when he offered to assist Jimmy and her near the end of the episode.

I wonder what the reasons were for the continuity issues? Shows like Smallville that have had long runs, most of the time have someone on staff whose concerned with continuity issues, such as a script supervisor.

[Poyntz]

i noticed the distance thing too. First they said 3 hours.. then they said just outside (after all lois and chloe were driving to work every day to the planet and chloe to school night classes after also!! Now its 2 hours away.

I wish they would stick to something straight LOL

[moviefan2k4]

1. Dax-Ur (Marc McClure) created Brainiac (James Marsters) not Jor-El.Actually, Dax-Ur says that his work led to Brainiac's creation; that doesn't necessarily mean he completed the android psycho himself.


I’ll give the writers the benefit of the doubt on that, but nevertheless Clark shouldn’t have been able to use his super speed.According to the "Transference" episode, Clark's super-speed first manifested at age 6, when he got lost in the woods.


Smallville is “just outside the city” this fact was established by Lionel in Season 7 right before the helicopter ride with Lex to Smallville, meaning it’s around a 45-mintue drive to and from there. It is not a two hours drive, like Chloe said to Clark when he offered to assist Jimmy and her near the end of the episode. That's an admitted flaw; early episodes showed the Metropolis skyline as being visible from Smallville, while later ones suggested it as being further away.

[Iolanthe]

Clark and Chloe looked to be around 11 in the flashback (circa 1998), which would place it three years before the pilot in continuity. Clark’s powers had not manifested at that time back in ‘98 ,but he super sped off to get Chloe a book at the library.

I respectfully disagree. In "Transference", where Clark and Lionel switched bodies, Clark was trying to convince Martha that he was really her son. And he mentioned being six or some young age, and how he got his super-speed and he sped away, and Sheriff Ethan had to find him when he was lost in the woods.

Or something like that. But my point is, he did have the speed by then.

And, actually, they've said before that the kiss was in eighth grade. And, right in the Pilot, where Clark is just beginning ninth grade, they show Clark missing the bus and super-speeding through the cornfields to get to school on time. It's my belief that he had the speed in eighth grade too.


Dax-Ur (Marc McClure) created Brainiac (James Marsters) not Jor-El.

Agree with you 100% on this one. They never mentioned Jor-El being associated with Brainiac before, and definitely said Dax-Ur was the maker. That's why, when Brainiac was "wounded", he had to go and mind-rape Dax-Ur to get the knowledge back.


Smallville is “just outside the city” this fact was established by Lionel in Season 7 right before the helicopter ride with Lex to Smallville, meaning it’s around a 45-minute drive to and from there. It is not a two hours drive, like Chloe said to Clark when he offered to assist Jimmy and her near the end of the episode.

Pet peeve. I think in the Pilot they established that Smallville was 3 hours from Metropolis. But, as the seasons progressed, sometimes they act like it's right next door. Come on, Chloe living over the Talon and working in Metropolis? Like a 3-hour commute is so easy for her to do, with all the hours she spends (or used to spend) at the Daily Planet? Or in "Arrow", when Lois is kidnapped, and Clark and Oliver meet at the Talon, and Oliver gets a report from his tracking device about where Lois is, and Oliver manages to make it back to Metropolis in what appears to be hardly any time?

Obviously, it's just that they want to keep on using the Talon set. Let's not think too hard about how far away Smallville actually is from Metropolis. It's basically whatever distance they need it to be for the plot.

**********************

Whoops! I see that moviefan2k4 anticipated my objections! Thanks for pointing out the Dax-Ur/Brainiac connection - I fell down on that one!

[ram711]

Actually in season 7's 'Lara', it is told via flashback that Brainiac was of Jor-El's creation. Lara herself said it to Kara in the Kent Barn.

[Iolanthe]

Actually in season 7's 'Lara', it is told via flashback that Brainiac was of Jor-El's creation. Lara herself said it to Kara in the Kent Barn.

Thanks, ram711!

I had forgotten that because I'm trying to block out the horrendous mishmash that was Season Seven from my mind. Frankly, I thought that was "Smallville's" most boring season yet. Most of the seasons I like to re-watch, but not Season Seven.

[Honey45]

The Metropolis-Smallville thing is an ongoing issue. They are constantly changing the distance to whatever fits the storyline of that particular episode.

[Bre723]

maybe jor-el imputed new memories?
false ones?

[chlarked_foever89]

Really she will have to realize she is missing stuff down the road and will get her memories back PLLLLLEEEASSSSSE I WILL DITCH THIS SHOW IF SHE DOESNT! I SWEAR!

[I_am_LEX]

i think that they may take it to the point where Lois finds out before the series is over... they can do it since its their own cannon sort of. i mean, she's known clark for almost 4 years now, and she knows about the red and blue blurr and has noticed some strange things about clark but just doesnt see it. soon she'll be investigating it more too. perhaps building to a FLIGHT of Clark saving Lois?? and he'll be wearing a suit like the justice leaguers have... the one ollie was wearing in identity.

[Storm45]

Maybe they'll get married to... It feels like Smallville is becoming: Superman:Fast Forward.

[ep3dan]

Maybe they'll get married to... It feels like Smallville is becoming: Superman:Fast Forward.

2x.

[JNottle]

Clark could of easily done it, every little thing dosen't need to be shown.

[smallvillerocks45]

I just have a feeling that Chloe is going to either remember or somehow find out again. She probably won't, because there are other far more pressing issues that Clark needs to deal with, but I just can't block the thought that she will know his secret again. I just hope that a.) she continues to accept him regardless and b.) doesn't die because of it.

[Randy G.]

[Mod Note:] Please do a search of the first few pages, to see if there is already a thread on your topic, before starting a new thread.

Also, threads with vague titles such as "Y'know...." tend to get deleted very quickly.
In the future, please title your threads sensibly. ;)

This will be merged into The Abyss "Plothole/ Continuity" Discussion thread.

[TheAmazingApe]

Are you guys seriously complaing about Clark making the choice to forget about her knowing of his abilities to keep her safe? Come on... If she hadnt of known about Clark, Brainiac wouldnt have infected her, and she would never have been put into danger those times in the past as well... He did it so that he wouldnt put her in those spots anymore...

I can see where you're coming from. Clark thinks he's doing the right thing. But the fact remains that, in this very episode, Chloe said she "wouldn't trade it for the world." A lot of who Chloe is is because of Clark. You take that away and what do you have? A girl who always wanted to be a reporter, but got fired by Lex just... because? I can take that dream being taken away from her because at least it happened because she was fighting the good fight. Now, without that knowledge of why it happened, it happened for no good reason. Chloe won't even remember why.

If Chloe ad known this secret for a few weeks, then fine. No harm done, really. But four years???? So many events in her life grew from the fact that she was in on this. There are way too many holes now.


Apocalypse hinted that this was the way things were gonna go with her.

Apocalypse also hinted that she would break Jimmy's heart and leave him with a "sense of style." It also had her with a cop, a heroic type. There is something in Chloe that wants to fight that good fight. Wants to stand alongside a hero.


she does not belong in his future, and she had no idea about his secret and she was HAPPY and SAFE and CONTENT marrying the man of her dreams.

She was also not Chloe. So much of who she is is tied up in these last four years where his secret was instrumental in so many things in her life.


I'm guessing their logic there is that Lois is part of the Supeman mythos and Chloe is not. She was created for this show. Lois is Clark/Superman's wife in the comics.

They should have used tht logic years ago, whent hey let her in and developed Chlark so heavily while putting Clois in the backburner and doing about nothing with it. They have pissed off a lot of fans. First, they told the Chlarkers to jumo ship with Instinct and Committed. Now they're telling the Chloe fans to take a hike, IMO. They develop Chalrk and Chloe in such a way and... this was the plan? Even the episode was a big "screw you." They devote this whole episode to Chloe and Clark and Chlark the secret and then just flush both down the john. And we're supposed to be okay with this? Who is Chloe now? Why should anyone who cares at all for Chloe even watch?

To see her marry Jimmy Olsen? Oh, big incentive[/sarcasm].


Chloe: a non mythos character knowing the secret for so long was quite possibly the. biggest. loose. end. EVER. created in Smallville history. One that should have been tied up years ago..it was a huge mess that needed to be tidied away before he could become superman and they've done it. And now he can move forward.

It's only the biggest loose end when they tie it up this way. What was the point in her knowing at all? She should have died in the explosion at the end of season 3. It would have been more fitting than this.

[migo]

As much as I enjoyed this new episode (the Clark/ Chloe fortress stuff was awesome) I had some major problems with it. I would even consider it my least favorite episode of the series because of these three things:

1. Dax-Ur (Marc McClure) created Brainiac (James Marsters) not Jor-El.

Where did it say Jor-El created BrainIAC?



2. Clark and Chloe looked to be around 11 in the flashback (circa 1998), which would place it three years before the pilot in continuity. Clark’s powers had not manifested at that time back in ‘98 ,but he super sped off to get Chloe a book at the library. (Okay, so maybe Brainiac took bits and pieces of Chloe’s memory and created another version of it, which hadn’t really taken place, or he maybe he had just made one up for fun?) I’ll give the writers the benefit of the doubt on that, but nevertheless Clark shouldn’t have been able to use his super speed.

Clark had Super Strength as a baby. It had also been established in the pilot that Clark made a habit of missing the bus and still getting there on time. Pete and Chloe were making bets on it.



3. Smallville is “just outside the city” this fact was established by Lionel in Season 7 right before the helicopter ride with Lex to Smallville, meaning it’s around a 45-mintue drive to and from there.

Whoa- this is where people are getting this 45 minute stuff? Just outside the city when you're talking to a kid doesn't mean it's just outside the city. Second of all, a 45 minute helicopter ride isn't a 45 minute drive. Given the speed difference of most cars and helicopters, 45 minute copter ride is roughly a 2 hour drive.


It is not a two hours drive, like Chloe said to Clark when he offered to assist Jimmy and her near the end of the episode.

It was 3 hours before, 2 hours now - maybe better roads are in. However, if the above reason is why people are thinking it's 45 minutes..... WTF???


I wonder what the reasons were for the continuity issues? Shows like Smallville that have had long runs, most of the time have someone on staff whose concerned with continuity issues, such as a script supervisor.

Smallville does fine with the continuity problems.

[Bizarrolover]

It was a selective mid wipe. Chloe still knows that Lex fired her from the Planet because of a key but now she doesn't know what the key was for. Maybe Clark made the decision without her approval, but he made the right choice. He preserved her from future attacks. Now Chloe will be able to live a normal life. Well, as normal as it can be when Doomsday is in love with you and you are surrounded by meteor freaks. Anyway, I think her memories of Clark will come back sooner or later.

[Ellsbury]

Chloe does not belong to the mythos, it's time for the writers to start cleaning up their mistakes.

[27CDruid]

I believed they mentioned Jor-el was involved in Brainiac as Lara said, "Jor-els brainiac may save us." Dax created it but Jor edited. Correct me if im wrong cause my memories faded....a bit like chloe :p

Clark had speed from a young age.

I like to ignore the journey thing. They should make a joke out of it in one of the episodes at the very least.

The only real plothole was the issis foundation IMO. Maybe it will be explained in the later episodes.

[stenochick]

2. Clark and Chloe looked to be around 11 in the flashback (circa 1998), which would place it three years before the pilot in continuity. Clark’s powers had not manifested at that time back in ‘98 ,but he super sped off to get Chloe a book at the library. (Okay, so maybe Brainiac took bits and pieces of Chloe’s memory and created another version of it, which hadn’t really taken place, or he maybe he had just made one up for fun?) I’ll give the writers the benefit of the doubt on that, but nevertheless Clark shouldn’t have been able to use his super speed.

3. Smallville is “just outside the city” this fact was established by Lionel in Season 7 right before the helicopter ride with Lex to Smallville, meaning it’s around a 45-mintue drive to and from there. It is not a two hours drive, like Chloe said to Clark when he offered to assist Jimmy and her near the end of the episode.

I wonder what the reasons were for the continuity issues? Shows like Smallville that have had long runs, most of the time have someone on staff whose concerned with continuity issues, such as a script supervisor.

Young Clark and Chloe are in eighth grade in that flashback. That is when Chloe moved to Smallville. Clark has had superspeed and superstrength since he was a boy. It was the other abiliities that came out during high school.

Chloe may have meant two hours round trip, but they have been inconsistent with the commute time from Smallville to Met since season 1. Al/Miles even joke about it on one of the early season DVD commentaries.

----- Added 8 Minutes later -----


I just have a feeling that Chloe is going to either remember or somehow find out again. She probably won't, because there are other far more pressing issues that Clark needs to deal with, but I just can't block the thought that she will know his secret again. I just hope that a.) she continues to accept him regardless and b.) doesn't die because of it.

Chloe, with or without meteor abilities or Brainiac infection, is one smart cookie. She will figure it all out again. Plus, she will not know why she chose Jimmy over Clark and will fall in love with him all over again, too.

[snarkycole]

Chloe: a non mythos character knowing the secret for so long was quite possibly the. biggest. loose. end. EVER. created in Smallville history. One that should have been tied up years ago..it was a huge mess that needed to be tidied away before he could become superman and they've done it. And now he can move forward.

thank god clark has no crutch and as a bonus its one less thing Chloe has on Lois


First of all, I'm sorry, but the biggest. loose. end. EVER. in my opinion is the fact that Lois, Jimmy, and Lex know Clark before he decides to create dual-identities. They know him before he decides to make the Clark Kent identity be the bumbling reporter with glasses. The way he carries himself now is more like the Superman persona than the future Clark Kent, and I am wondering how they're going to make these three characters who are vital in Clark's future not recognize Clark as Superman or wonder about Clark Kent's altered appearance and behavioral qualities. I wonder what solution they have in their mind for that loose end? Is Clark going to have Jor-El mindwipe them? Will the curl in Superman's hair have to power to confuse and disorientate witnesses so they cannot recognize his face?



now as it stands in season 8:

Lois and clark are technically closer than Clark and Chloe are.

im happy about that I know lots aren't but it means Ps3 are being serious about his destiny now.

its fantastic, beautiful to see.

and I absolutley adore how one episode before Clark is realizing that he he would tell lois his secret, the way chloe learned was a violation of his privacy it was not his choice at all. But it will be his choice to tell Lois as was hinted one episode earlier.

And now to the second issue. So you're saying that if Chloe had never found out about Clark's secret in season four, then he would have never in the last 4 years have felt the urge to tell her his secret as he has felt the urge to tell Lois this season? That in the last four years Chloe and Clark still wouldn't have been as close to each other as they are now, that she wouldn't have somehow been affected by his powers and involved in the F.O.W. battles so often that Clark wouldn't wonder to himself that perhaps it would be better if she knew the truth? I don't buy that. I think that even if Alicia hadn't revealed Clark's powers to Chloe, one way or another Chloe would have eventually become privy to Clark's secret in the last four years.

Another thing I think needs to remembered is that the only reason Lois has any relationship with Clark in Smallville is because she's Chloe's cousin. Yes, in the great mythology Lois Lane would still somehow come to know and love Clark Kent without a Chloe Sullivan even existing...but in Smallville they chose for Lois to be Chloe's cousin. The only reason she came to Smallville was because she was investigating Chloe's death (upon being prompted by an video from that Lois should question her demise). And the writers of Smallville also decided to make her someone who originally was uninterested in journalism until Chloe gave her a push towards it. She might not have made it to the Daily Planet if her little cousin hadn't put the idea of journalism into her head. (Although this is all conjecture, because we don't know what TPTB had as a plan B if they decided to not have her as Chloe's cousin). Anyway, I think you are quick to undermine Chloe's importance in SMALLVILLE. Yes, Chloe is insignificant in the big mythos endgame, but her in Smallville she has bigger ties you can't ignore.

Lastly, I disagree that Lois and Clark are closer than Clark and Chloe. Yes, they may have larger romantic feelings towards each other than Chloe and Clark do, but to say that they are closer just because they have more romantic chemistry is to say that romance trumps friendship or family. Even though they both are in the dark about Clark's big secret, I think Chloe knows more about Clark and Clark about Chloe than Lois knows about Clark and Clark about Lois. I think that Lois and Clark are getting closer, but secret or no secret, Chloe is still a closer confidant to Clark than Lois is.

[stenochick]

They devote this whole episode to Chloe and Clark and Chlark the secret and then just flush both down the john. And we're supposed to be okay with this? Who is Chloe now? Why should anyone who cares at all for Chloe even watch?


Actually, this is the most interested I have even been in Chloe and the most enthralled I have been with AM's acting and Smallville story-telling. I have been glued to the screen watching AM act this season. She is a phenomenal actress and finally has been given some material to sink her teeth into this season.

For the first time ever, while watching Abyss, I kept wanting more Chloe scenes. I did not even notice that Clark took a back seat to Chloe this episode. I actually like Chloe front and center in her own scenes. She is her own woman and I loved watching Abyss from that perspective. Clark, Jimmy, and Davis were reacting to her and in service to her character, not the other way around.

If the writers continue to write Chloe in character, she will figure out what is going wrong in her head and/or figure out Clark's secret all over again.

I am just relieved that they have written her as a three-dimensional flesh and blood character this season, and ditched the Mary Sue/deus ex machina/exposition dialogue/Clark emasculator character that they had turned her into.

Sorry for veering off-topic there.

[FlashInSV]

crib sheets?


I second that question.. Crib sheets? Am I missing something? :confused: :confused:

[eas]

First of all, I'm sorry, but the biggest. loose. end. EVER. in my opinion is the fact that Lois, Jimmy, and Lex know Clark before he decides to create dual-identities. They know him before he decides to make the Clark Kent identity be the bumbling reporter with glasses. The way he carries himself now is more like the Superman persona than the future Clark Kent, and I am wondering how they're going to make these three characters who are vital in Clark's future not recognize Clark as Superman or wonder about Clark Kent's altered appearance and behavioral qualities. I wonder what solution they have in their mind for that loose end? Is Clark going to have Jor-El mindwipe them? Will the curl in Superman's hair have to power to confuse and disorientate witnesses so they cannot recognize his face?

And now to the second issue. So you're saying that if Chloe had never found out about Clark's secret in season four, then he would have never in the last 4 years have felt the urge to tell her his secret as he has felt the urge to tell Lois this season? That in the last four years Chloe and Clark still wouldn't have been as close to each other as they are now, that she wouldn't have somehow been affected by his powers and involved in the F.O.W. battles so often that Clark wouldn't wonder to himself that perhaps it would be better if she knew the truth? I don't buy that. I think that even if Alicia hadn't revealed Clark's powers to Chloe, one way or another Chloe would have eventually become privy to Clark's secret in the last four years.

Another thing I think needs to remembered is that the only reason Lois has any relationship with Clark in Smallville is because she's Chloe's cousin. Yes, in the great mythology Lois Lane would still somehow come to know and love Clark Kent without a Chloe Sullivan even existing...but in Smallville they chose for Lois to be Chloe's cousin. The only reason she came to Smallville was because she was investigating Chloe's death (upon being prompted by an video from that Lois should question her demise). And the writers of Smallville also decided to make her someone who originally was uninterested in journalism until Chloe gave her a push towards it. She might not have made it to the Daily Planet if her little cousin hadn't put the idea of journalism into her head. (Although this is all conjecture, because we don't know what TPTB had as a plan B if they decided to not have her as Chloe's cousin). Anyway, I think you are quick to undermine Chloe's importance in SMALLVILLE. Yes, Chloe is insignificant in the big mythos endgame, but her in Smallville she has bigger ties you can't ignore.

Lastly, I disagree that Lois and Clark are closer than Clark and Chloe. Yes, they may have larger romantic feelings towards each other than Chloe and Clark do, but to say that they are closer just because they have more romantic chemistry is to say that romance trumps friendship or family. Even though they both are in the dark about Clark's big secret, I think Chloe knows more about Clark and Clark about Chloe than Lois knows about Clark and Clark about Lois. I think that Lois and Clark are getting closer, but secret or no secret, Chloe is still a closer confidant to Clark than Lois is.

I agree with you on the first three points. The last point, I would have agreed until the final moments of this episode.

You're right - the biggest plot-hole is that everyone knows Clark so well. I mean, Jimmy already pieced it together with just a photo of a blur. Imagine what'll happen when Clark actually gets photographed as Superman the first time. How on earth are Jimmy, Lois (and now Chloe) not going to recognize him? THAT is a plot-hole they need to address. Also, I think you're right -- I think that chances are that Clark would have wanted to tell Chloe his secret sooner or later. At this point, though, we don't know if Clark & Chloe would have been so close if she hadn't known his secret. They may not even have been friends, you know? This is the thing with this "twist" and "memory wipe" -- it puts their whole relationship into doubt.

Secondly, yes - Chloe may not be an iconic character, but - within the context of "SV" - she is an INTEGERAL character. Her arc for the past 4 seasons has been linked with knowing Clark's secret. And that counts for something. And by removing this knowledge, they've pretty much completely tossed out her whole life for the past 4 years. I don't know how they plan to pull this off.... it's rather odd. As I said last night, it isn't like Chloe just found out last week. She's known for FOUR years and she's been working full time for Clark in that time.... that's a lot of memory wipe.

And, lastly, I do believe that Chloe/Clark were much closer than Lois/Clark. That, to me, was a given. Until this episode. Now, since Chloe is no longer a secret-keeper, the two girls are actually equal. In fact, time will probably show his relationship with Lois deepening because he works with Lois daily & she's single. Vs. Chloe who works somewhere else and is married to Jimmy (or however that turns out). Then, of course, there's Lana.

I thought about this long and hard & I think that there is only one reason they did this. For Lana Lang. If this is really about lining up to the mythos, then the only reason to do it is to have Lana step into her "iconic" role of being Clark's high school sweetheart; who knows his secret; and encourages him to go save the world. Up to this point, Chloe held that mantle much more than Lana. With Chloe's mind-wiped, it gives Lana the ability to step in the shoes of her iconic counter-parts very smoothly.

Works well for Lana's character... they'll probably use her 5 episode run to "salvage" her character and build it up so that Lana ends up Clark's BFF & his secret keeper. It helps him to end her run that way if Chloe is kind of "out of the way" -- because, really, what motivation would Clark have to make that much amends with Lana if Chloe is such a great BFF, already? The final scenes of this episode showed that Clark felt the loss of Chloe knowing his secret... it will be a relief and nice for him when Lana comes back & she knows.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


I second that question.. Crib sheets? Am I missing something? :confused: :confused:

Crib sheets are "cheat sheets" that are used for tests and stuff. A sheet of paper with all the answers that you need.

[Kal-alien]

Is Chloe is going to remember Justice League? Watchtower?

This was my concern the minute her mind was wiped. What about all the other heroes? What about the meteor freaks at Isis? Those are technically related to Krypton and Clark's secret, and should have been erased, but i doubt they will. I have two predictions about Chloe but I'll discuss those in a different thread in a more appropriate forum.

[JDS2930]

I feel like the mindwipe presents such a huge plot hole. Erasing her knowledge of his secret isn't just one small bit of memory. Like others have pointed out....that knowledge would have multiple other memories connected to it (like a spider web) that would also need to be erased. This would surely leave an even larger gaping hole in Chloe's memory. And another post asked what about her role as the "watchtower?" If she doesn't know Clark's secret, she can't really serve as part of the Justice League team because it would be difficult to explain her knowing the secrets of the rest of the team members but not Clark. But again....would this be an example of a memory connected to Clark's secret that was also erased?

Also, I feel it's such a huge disservice to the character, the story, and the fans. Chloe's relationship with Clark has been built over the past four years on the knowledge of his secret and helping him out. I feel like it's such a major retcon wiping away four years worth of stories and character development like they never happened, and I hate it when that happens in a series...whether it be a comic or tv. It's like the Spider-Man "Brand New Day" or even the proposal that Grant Morrison had a few years back (at least I think it was him) to completely undo the Lois & Clark marriage in the comics and have Lois forget his identity again. You just can't "roll back the clock" like that. These things happened, and now they're a part of these characters' history and interaction with each other. To undo them just erases SO much.

I'm hoping this will only be temporary.

[Ginx]

I saw it coming, but seriously what a cheap cop out.

Chloe forgets four years worth of memories associated post Clark's secret, yet her current memory is A-ok with no bump in the road with no immediate lasting effects to the giant gap in her memory?

I didn't get the feeling that there were gaps. I think she still has those 4 years with Clark just not any memories of him using his abilities. So working with him at the paper etc would still be there just not anything related to CK/Kal/Krypton. Which, if she never experienced them, wouldn't leave a hole at all. I understand why the writers did this.

[Yoshua]

Ok, So she doesn't know Clark/Krypton. Whatever. Regardless of how I feel about it, it is done.



But Chloe is still Chloe, there are holes there no matter how you look at it. She knows the Green Arrow. Oliver constantly goes to Chloe and usually the first things out of their mouths is about 'Clark'.... So what is going to happen when Oliver brings it up?


Is Clark going to go to everyone that knows his secret and knows Watchtower and tell them Chloe can't be told anything?


Just unbelievable. She WILL find out his secret again. Chloe never stops digging.


I mean, she is the cannonical Lois Lane for Highschool version of the series. Who she IS hasn't changed.


Does she still have the meteor power? Did Jor-El take it from her? What was the point of giving it to her if she was stripped of it? I know Brainiac shut it off while he was in her but he's gone now.

[Dor el]

In Blue, Dax ur said his technology was what led to Brainiac's creation. Dax ur did not say he built or created Brainiac; only the technology on which Brainiac was built. Dax ur and Jorel were both scientists. Jorel could easily have used Dax ur's technology to built Brainiac. Seemed to be a bone of contention for Dax ur. Brainiac went to Dax ur for help because Dax ur knew how Brainiac's technology worked. Plus, Jorel was dead and wouldn't help Brainiac even if he was alive. What I don't understand is how Jorel, who has intimate knowledge about Brainiac, did not sense Brainiac's invasion into the FOS via Chloe. Could it be that the reprogrammed crystal disabled some of the Jorel AI's fail safes?

[BadaBingBadaBoomsday]

^^Very good point.

What about when she goes back into the ISIS picture wall and sees
all her hard copies of Super Clark??

[BIGBLUE1]

mmm good question maybe she oes maybe she doesn't but really the only reason she would know of the green arrow is because of clark so i guess well have to wait until we seesome interaction with oliver and chloe to determine that

[roccanater]

That is a good point. Looks like we are just going to have to wait and see.

[mr lane]

I agree with you on the first three points. The last point, I would have agreed until the final moments of this episode.

You're right - the biggest plot-hole is that everyone knows Clark so well. I mean, Jimmy already pieced it together with just a photo of a blur. Imagine what'll happen when Clark actually gets photographed as Superman the first time. How on earth are Jimmy, Lois (and now Chloe) not going to recognize him? THAT is a plot-hole they need to address. Also, I think you're right -- I think that chances are that Clark would have wanted to tell Chloe his secret sooner or later. At this point, though, we don't know if Clark & Chloe would have been so close if she hadn't known his secret. They may not even have been friends, you know? This is the thing with this "twist" and "memory wipe" -- it puts their whole relationship into doubt.

Secondly, yes - Chloe may not be an iconic character, but - within the context of "SV" - she is an INTEGERAL character. Her arc for the past 4 seasons has been linked with knowing Clark's secret. And that counts for something. And by removing this knowledge, they've pretty much completely tossed out her whole life for the past 4 years. I don't know how they plan to pull this off.... it's rather odd. As I said last night, it isn't like Chloe just found out last week. She's known for FOUR years and she's been working full time for Clark in that time.... that's a lot of memory wipe.

And, lastly, I do believe that Chloe/Clark were much closer than Lois/Clark. That, to me, was a given. Until this episode. Now, since Chloe is no longer a secret-keeper, the two girls are actually equal. In fact, time will probably show his relationship with Lois deepening because he works with Lois daily & she's single. Vs. Chloe who works somewhere else and is married to Jimmy (or however that turns out). Then, of course, there's Lana.

I thought about this long and hard & I think that there is only one reason they did this. For Lana Lang. If this is really about lining up to the mythos, then the only reason to do it is to have Lana step into her "iconic" role of being Clark's high school sweetheart; who knows his secret; and encourages him to go save the world. Up to this point, Chloe held that mantle much more than Lana. With Chloe's mind-wiped, it gives Lana the ability to step in the shoes of her iconic counter-parts very smoothly.

Works well for Lana's character... they'll probably use her 5 episode run to "salvage" her character and build it up so that Lana ends up Clark's BFF & his secret keeper. It helps him to end her run that way if Chloe is kind of "out of the way" -- because, really, what motivation would Clark have to make that much amends with Lana if Chloe is such a great BFF, already? The final scenes of this episode showed that Clark felt the loss of Chloe knowing his secret... it will be a relief and nice for him when Lana comes back & she knows.
----- Added 1 Minutes later -----




I hadn't thought about the Lana aspect but that fits really well. I had originally thought the only reason they would bring Lana back was to restore her character to somewhat fit the comics I just wasn't sure how they would but wiping Chloe's memory and leaving Lana as the only one who remembers opens that door up.

And with Lana only doing 4 or 5 episodes it allows her to know his secret, make amends and then move on with her life and leave Clark to become the Superman we know he will become with Lana knowing his secret from a distance. Also in time allowing his relationship to build with Lois.

When I heard season 8 was a go I wasn't sure if I was going to like it or not it felt as if though they spent the last 7 season reshaping the story of Clark pre/Superman that we all know but they are doing a good job of speeding up the story line to somwhat where Clark should be at in his life right now.

[justme_007]

good question mmm about the healing power spoiler This power will come back at some point in the season according to spoilers spoiler:rolleyes:

[kp1984]

I was wondering if there what she would remember now. She known his idenity for over 3 years which mean there's now alot of holes in her memory. I wonder how much she remembers. Dose she remember Lana kicking her cousin arse, dose she remember working with Oilver and his boys? Wonder if she remember that thing with her mom. So many qusetions. She'll defintly have missing points in her memory now

[Storm45]

Eevn the reason why she's not working at the DP is directly related to Clark's secret.

[Yoshua]

One day the writers will figure out that they need to fill in any pot holes they create along the way.


Just way too much unanswered with a memory wipe. And you can't keep relying on 'it is alien technology therefore it is godlike and can do whatever we tell it to do.

[ms.c.]

I don't think Chloe will remember Ollie is the Green Arrow. Everything tied to Clark being an alien has been lost and I think that includes Ollie being GA. She may remember being meteor infected, but maybe not.

[Iluvgreen]

I just hope she just figures out agian. And I think she knows about Ollie still.

[gemini]

Eevn the reason why she's not working at the DP is directly related to Clark's secret.

Don't forget her mother rescue from lex lab!:rolleyes:

[chlo-el]

I don't think Chloe will remember Ollie is the Green Arrow. Everything tied to Clark being an alien has been lost and I think that includes Ollie being GA. She may remember being meteor infected, but maybe not.

Same here. Anything that has to do w/ Clark's secret will be gone. I think it would be funny if Ollie starts talking to her and she's all like Lois' why is your billionaire ex-boyfriend talking to me? Since all of her interactions w/ him had to do w/ her secret keeper satus.

I wonder how Ollie feels about this.

[smallvillefreak24]

i dont think we're supposed to think too hard and the ramifications to the past 4ish years this has or to the present or future for that matter WE"RE SUPPOSED TO BE DEEPLY DEPRESSED as i am

[Faerus]

And she also knows about Kara.... So she will easy find out about Clark Secret again..

[Superboy2]

What if she didn't forget? What if she is faking it and Jor-El have all of her memories back?

[psyko69]

The last four years did not revolve around Chloe.

Surprise though it may be to some, other things did happen in that time.

[Storm45]

The last four years did not revolve around Chloe.

Surprise though it may be to some, other things did happen in that time.

:confused:

I think its a thread about Chloe's memory loss and the 4 years of her life. Unless we are not permitted to discuss Chloe because she's not Clark Kent ot part of the mythos?

[skully]

Ok, So she doesn't know Clark/Krypton. Whatever. Regardless of how I feel about it, it is done.



But Chloe is still Chloe, there are holes there no matter how you look at it. She knows the Green Arrow. Oliver constantly goes to Chloe and usually the first things out of their mouths is about 'Clark'.... So what is going to happen when Oliver brings it up?


Is Clark going to go to everyone that knows his secret and knows Watchtower and tell them Chloe can't be told anything?


Just unbelievable. She WILL find out his secret again. Chloe never stops digging.


I mean, she is the cannonical Lois Lane for Highschool version of the series. Who she IS hasn't changed.
Absolutely.

[Mars Investigations]

Oh, she'll definitely get her memories back sooner or later - I'm betting around "Legion".

However, what she does and doesn't remember raises some confusion - she only worked out the secrets of the Justice League because of her ties to Clark's secret. Even if she does remember that Ollie is GA, she wouldn't remember the cause of her discovery of this; however, it seems stupid on Clark's part not to erase the League's secrets from her mind as well, because these put her in just as much danger as his did. But then, that would be an even greater violation of not just Chloe's, but his friend's wishes...

The more I think about this twist, the more worried I become that it could be convoluted and frustrating. But I have confidence in PS3 to carry it through well.

[Diego*Chloe]

The plothole the size of the football picth is NOTHING in comparison to the HUGE loose end created when they let Chloe know his secret, and for so damn long too

Chloe: a non mythos character knowing the secret for so long was quite possibly the. biggest. loose. end. EVER. created in Smallville history. One that should have been tied up years ago..it was a huge mess that needed to be tidied away before he could become superman and they've done it. And now he can move forward.

thank god clark has no crutch and as a bonus its one less thing Chloe has on Lois

now as it stands in season 8:

Lois and clark are technically closer than Clark and Chloe are.

im happy about that I know lots aren't but it means Ps3 are being serious about his destiny now.

its fantastic, beautiful to see.

and I absolutley adore how one episode before Clark is realizing that he he would tell lois his secret, the way chloe learned was a violation of his privacy it was not his choice at all. But it will be his choice to tell Lois as was hinted one episode earlier.


It wasn´t her choice either.....and she waited for him to tell her.....

[Vindellavon]

Yeah this has been bothering me to. There has been a lot of loopholes in the story as of lately. I wish the writers could be a little more careful about this. Maybe it will be better explain in later episodes or maybe it won't.

When have they ever made an episode that flowed correctly? This season has more loopholes than Charmed. The secret may be gone, and the other memories will be there; but there will be blank spots all over the place. And those blank spots are dealt wth the secret. She's going to ask herself and investigate (Reporter!Chloe). If she finds out, it'll be the revival of Chlark all over again. If that doesnt happen she's doensn't remember, eventually she'll go crazy trying to find out what the heck happened and why she can't remember, and it'll all blow up in Clark's face. Again. Tsk tsk Superman. Didn't mommy ever tell you how not play with a girl's head.

[Darth Pipes]

Seeing as Chloe's memories of Clark are gone...wouldn't that possibly restore her desire to become a reporter again? Just an idea.

[Black Panda]

Welcome to Plotholeville. Why did Chloe get fired again? Oh yeah, because she was found with a key to safe deposit box containing the orb to control Clark and his superpowers.

So, is that memory a big black hole? Or some weird Brainiac fabrication at this point?

[KahneAZ29]

Bottom line, I don't like it at all, but at the end of the day, its just a TV show, and being not real life

The way it went down left so many plot-holes, its ridiculous

- How is Chloe's memory impacted inregards to Oliver/Green Arrow? the Justice League?
- How is the circumstances regarding her Daily Planet demise changed? (because she basically lost her job defending Clark's secret)
- Will there be a scene with Clark telling Lana that Chloe no longer knows, before Lana and Chloe have a scene together,? How does this work exactly????
- Does Chloe go back to trying to find out about Clark's mysteriousness as she was even before Alicia showed her his secret in Pariah
- Does Chloe still know she is a "meteor freak", does she now retain the ability to heal others, does she even have a memory of her being involved in the ISIS Foundation,. WHAT THE _____?


Bottom line, its as if the new writers basically gutted Chloe's character traits from the past 4 years. How you want to sugar-coat it all you want is mute. This is basically a totally different character now, or atleast it should be about as similar as how the character was in Seasons 1, 2, 3, and mid 4th



Now , im hoping Braniac never really left Chloe in the last episode. And that he is still controlling her or is her. So hopefully whichever way they make Braniac finally rid himself of his connection of Chloe permanently

That she will have all of her memories restored up to the point of Braniac's takeover


I think many of us can only hope, otherwise, it is what it is

If they basically stay with her not knowing Clark's secret, then IMO, Allison Mack will not be returning for a 9th season (if there is one), and/or the character can simply be killed off at this point, because it has served its usefulness

I even doubt Mack would want to return, given the fact there would simply be nothing more for her character to do/explore if she is not involved with Clark being an alien

[davidbrenton]

I agree completely with you.

[lanalang1018]

I hope that we will see a glimpse of some sort of solution in the next episode, as there will be a lengthy gap between "Bride" and "Legion."

[Kalista]

AM is already signed for S9 and I believe she will have her memories restored. Spoilers indicate she will be helping Clark go undercover in Bulletproof.


I think Chloe is still infected by Brainiac.

[KahneAZ29]

thats cool about AM being signed for S9

however, the spoiler that Chloe helping Clark go undercover doesn't necessarily have to do with anything about Clark's abilities or alien origin

he works at the DP, and could simply be asking Chloe for help in regards to his job duties

[Cellist]

Yeah, Clark and Chloe went undercover and snooped around on countless occasions for the first three seasons (pre-enlightenment =P )

[ginnyfan]

Great post KahneAZ29. I disagree that Chloe's character has been gutted. I look forward to see how the rest of the season answers these questions and fills in some of these holes.

I think on of the producers mentioned that Chloe "used up" her healing power to heal herself from her Brainiac induced coma. ???

So the healing power may not come into play at all.

[Kalista]

Cellist and KahneAZ29 you have a point. We will just have to wait and see.