Yes or No: was Chloe in control?

[TheANIMAL (marcus)]

Make your mind up time.

[unfocused]

Yes.

There have been no signs that BrainIAC is still alive. All we know, all they have let us know, is that Chloe was affected by BrainIAC in some unknown, mysterious way.

[Mars Investigations]

I don't think it's a clear-cut "yes or no" question. I'll post here what I posted elsewhere:


It wasn't Brainiac that killed Sebastian. After all, what would he gain from protecting Clark's secret?

It was just his darker, more murderous programming channeling itself through Chloe's wish to protect her friends. In other words, the killing was a result of her motivation and his evil.

[tariksam]

Yes definitely she was, she was in control and it took control of the powers Brianiac gave her....I love it....and I love that she is conflicted about it more proof it was all her

[SupesComicFan]

Chloe was in control. She didn't look terrified at the end, she looked sad. I don't think she would have done it without Brainiac, but she was allowing it to happen and had some kind of control.

[harryandginnyfanatic]

I'm undecided.

It could've been Chloe using her powers or it could've been Brainiac controlling Chloe.

I just know that Brainiac wouldn't have motive or intent. Chloe would.

[stenochick]

I voted NO, but honestly I voted what I want the situation to be, not what actually may be going on.

[miks]

No she wasn't. She was confused at the end because she had no idea what just happened. She knew why she came to the hospital, and that was to see if Sebastian knew Clark's secret, but that's all, she didn't know why she was walking away. It's that or she had no idea why she was in the hospital in the first place and just wanted to leave. We'll find out in the next couple of episodes that she's probably been having short black outs.

[morrigan01]

I vote yes. It wasn't fully Brainiac, because Brainiac has ZERO motive to protect Clark's secret.

And Chloe's look of remorse at the end sealed it for me that it was her. She knew what she'd just done.

[AndrewVDk]

I don't care if she was in control or not! She was awesome!
If that was Brainiac, I'm sure he had a good reason to kill that guy!
And if that was Chloe, she definitely had a good reason! She was protecting
Clark, plus that freak tried to kill her cousin! He got what he deserved
one way or another! So, it's all cool with me! Go Chloe!!

[ShelbyKent]

Maybe Brainiac has removed Chloe's inhibitions filter? Similar to what happens to Clark when he's on RedK (but not as wild lol!)

That's why Chloe is acting on all her impulses (even if theyre wrong), like flirting with Davis'even if she's engaged, and killing Sebastian to protect Clark's secret.

So essentially, Chloe is still Chloe, but she's more open now to acting on her evil impulses

And that is my theory for this week.....until we have a firmer grasp on the nature of Chloiac

[harryandginnyfanatic]

And if that was Chloe, she definitely had a good reason! She was protecting
Clark, plus that freak tried to kill her cousin! He got what he deserved
one way or another! So, it's all cool with me! Go Chloe!!

I can almost buy that, if it was actually for the greater good.

[Isabel14]

Think about it. She would have never killed someone, so I assume she lets Brainiac to take the lead, maybe she likes her new side, being influenced by Brainiac. Anyway, she was hot, and I would never expected to be her. I thought it was Tess who's going to murder Sebastian.

[Kevin24]

I don't know what to vote because her attitude during and after are completely different. At first she was calm and collected with what she was doing and saying and showed no signs of being afraid. Then after she had this face that said to me "what have I done? " and she definitely looked remorseful about what just happened.

I can't really say Brainiac took over then because basically it seems like it was all her.

Her powers are definitely clouding her judgment and it's slowly chipping away at her morals much like powers do for Krypto Powered beings.

[AndiGirl]

I don't think it's a clear-cut "yes or no" question. I'll post here what I posted elsewhere:



I agree...there is no clear "Yes" or "no". It's not that simple. So I said yes....because Chloe is still aware of her actions.

But would chloe have done it if she wanst infected by Brainiac...absolutely not.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


I don't care if she was in control or not! She was awesome!
If that was Brainiac, I'm sure he had a good reason to kill that guy!
And if that was Chloe, she definitely had a good reason! She was protecting
Clark, plus that freak tried to kill her cousin! He got what he deserved
one way or another! So, it's all cool with me! Go Chloe!!

Yea, but in what universe would Chloe actually kill a man?? I know she's talked about it...but I never thought she would go through with it.

Not to mention...there's no way in the world Clark would be happy to hear she took a life to protect his secret....:\

[Kevin24]

I don't care if she was in control or not! She was awesome!
If that was Brainiac, I'm sure he had a good reason to kill that guy!
And if that was Chloe, she definitely had a good reason! She was protecting
Clark, plus that freak tried to kill her cousin! He got what he deserved
one way or another! So, it's all cool with me! Go Chloe!!

It was definitely a nice twist:lol:

But come on you know she wouldn't have done that if it weren't for the Brainiac power inside her! I wasn't happy that Chloe killed somebody and she didn't have a good reason at all for it:(

[stenochick]

No she wasn't. She was confused at the end because she had no idea what just happened. She knew why she came to the hospital, and that was to see if Sebastian knew Clark's secret, but that's all, she didn't know why she was walking away. It's that or she had no idea why she was in the hospital in the first place and just wanted to leave. We'll find out in the next couple of episodes that she's probably been having short black outs.

that makes a lot of sense.

[lillie_poo_pod]

No. I thought it was pretty obvious that Chloe was not in control.

[tariksam]

well it was not obvious for a lot of people hence the divided of the opinions

[justme_007]

at first, i thought the answer was no. But know i think that she was in control influenced by brainiac , of course, but brainiac has no motive to kill sebastian. We are starting to see Her dark side.

Producers are doing with Chloe what was done with willow of buffy the vampire slayer if someone saw this serie. It´s the same thing. Turning to Evil Chloe

[lillie_poo_pod]

And if that was Chloe, she definitely had a good reason! She was protecting
This would make her no better than Lana, wrt killing to protect Clark's secret. The whole Chlana scene in Wrath would mean nothing and she'd be a hypocrite.

I don't want my favorite character going out like that.

[miks]

It's obvious because people are saying Chloe would never kill. Everyone knows that. That's just not her style. Chloe can always figure out a way around killing someone. Chloe has been acting different this entire season. I don't know who posted it, but someone mentioned how with her healing power, which is purely good, she wanted to get rid of it, but now that Brainiac is inside of her, whenever Clark mentions getting rid of it she ignores him and is annoyed by it. She knows damn well that the FOS will get rid of it, yet she isn't doing it, why? Because Brainiac was influencing her in the beginning, and now he's taking over short bouts of her life.

[Iluvgreen]

Even though i love Chloe, i know that she killed that guy knowingly. Braniac didn't have control.

But i have to say, when she was walking away, she had a cool Lex sort of walk away thing. except she looked a little scared.

[lillie_poo_pod]

well it was not obvious for a lot of people hence the divided of the opinions
That's why I put "I thought"

[tariksam]

Even though i love Chloe, i know that she killed that guy knowingly. Braniac didn't have control.

But i have to say, when she was walking away, she had a cool Lex sort of walk away thing. except she looked a little scared.

ITA, she is like OH CRAP, I don't think she thought she would go all the way through that...she is not having black holes, hence she knows she is not being controlled...it was all her then well I'll give credit to Brianiac and his powers a 90-10% deal

[go_clo]

I agree...there is no clear "Yes" or "no". It's not that simple. So I said yes....because Chloe is still aware of her actions.

But would chloe have done it if she wanst infected by Brainiac...absolutely not.
Totally agree! I think Chloe's emotions and motives are driving her but I think Brainiac is the one influencing the way she handles things and is slowly stripping down her morals, conscious, ethics, etc. Just basically anything good about her turning her into a cold heartless person. :\

Without Brainiac's influence, there is no way she would EVER kill ANYONE! She would have killed Lex a long time ago if she was that heartless!

[lilbreck]

It came off as obviously Brainiac in control in the scene due to the color scheme, her facial expressions, her dialog and the fact we know from Toxic she's been having lost time episodes.

It all points, IMO, to Brainiac definitely being in control of her sometimes, and given that it would be wildly out of character to kill someone in cold blood, it came off as him being in control of her at this point.

[miks]

What happened in Toxic that makes you think she's losing time? Did I miss something? I would love to know if I missed a line.

[Kevin24]

It's true Chloe would have never killed anyone before her Brainiac infection. She looked confused, shocked, and scared when she was leaving his room.

Brainiac is doing something in there because she has been off lately. Last week for example was something Chloe would never have done before. Knowing her she wouldn't have allowed herself to get that close to Davis when she is engaged.

She has had her moments when she has seemed like herself. For example in this episode when she was trying to convince Clark about showing people that he is out there to give them hope.

She is definitely aware of what she is doing because her reaction afterwards of being shocked after she killed that guy wouldn't have been there. So, she knew what she was doing in there but was she in total control?

[Dustmite]

No!

If Chloe was never infected, what happened wouldn't have happened so it was quite simple for me.

[miks]

I agree about the Davis thing. I think it's Brainiac that's pulling her more and more towards Davis, because Brainiac can feel the darkness within him. I think Chloe would have definitely helped Davis like she's been doing but I think Chloe is confused as to why it's soo easy to get along with Davis. And I think that has to do with the Davis is the dark Clark theory. Remember in the last episode she said she'd never had such an easy vibe with anyone but Davis and Clark.

[tariksam]

She is definitely aware of what she is doing because her reaction afterwards of being shocked after she killed that guy wouldn't have been there. So, she knew what she was doing in there but was she in total control?

I agree I see it like Brianiac side effect its taking away her moral code....but its still her and her decision, she thinks about it and there is not a red alarm that says just think don't do it....

[scififan]

I don't think it's a clear-cut "yes or no" question. I'll post here what I posted elsewhere:
It wasn't Brainiac that killed Sebastian. After all, what would he gain from protecting Clark's secret? It was just his darker, more murderous programming channeling itself through Chloe's wish to protect her friends. In other words, the killing was a result of her motivation and his evil.



I like this reasoning. I think that she was channeling Brainiac. I don't think that the real Chloe is capable of killing anyone. She has dedicated her life to help people.

[Dustmite]

I agree about the Davis thing. I think it's Brainiac that's pulling her more and more towards Davis, because Brainiac can feel the darkness within him. I think Chloe would have definitely helped Davis like she's been doing but I think Chloe is confused as to why it's soo easy to get along with Davis. And I think that has to do with the Davis is the dark Clark theory. Remember in the last episode she said she'd never had such an easy vibe with anyone but Davis and Clark.

AM had stated in an interview that Chloe's attraction to Davies is Kyrptonian.

[lillie_poo_pod]

I agree I see it like Brianiac side effect its taking away her moral code....but its still her and her decision, she thinks about it and there is not a red alarm that says just think don't do it....

I don't agree with that. While in the hallway Chloe looked confused, like she didn't know what just happened or why she was even in the hospital. That was not her, and not her decision. She had no control, IMHO.

[Malicieux Toutou]

I answered yes. However, clearly she wouldn't kill this guy if not for the Brainiac infection. It has altered her character. So I think the question is whether she was doing her own bidding or Brainiac's bidding. I can't think of any reason why Brainiac would want to kill this guy.

[tariksam]

I don't agree with that. While in the hallway Chloe looked confused, like she didn't know what just happened or why she was even in the hospital. That was not her, and not her decision. She had no control, IMHO.

Well again going by the past...she was willing to scrify Lex to protect Clark's secret so the thoughts have always been there....

Lets agree in disagree for me she was in control, the last look for ME was more like conflict that she actually did what she did than snapping out of it, if she was snapping she would have stop to question how she got there and she would have turn around to see the commotion on Sebastian's rooms.

Lets agree in disagree again.

[lillie_poo_pod]

I can't think of any reason why Brainiac would want to kill this guy.
Maybe because knowing what the guy knew would mess up whatever Brainiac is trying to do here. The guy would have gone back and told Tess about Clark and that would ultimately ruin whatever plan Brainiac has right now.

[Dustmite]

I don't agree with that. While in the hallway Chloe looked confused, like she didn't know what just happened or why she was even in the hospital. That was not her, and not her decision. She had no control, IMHO.

I agree. Before I saw the episode I had no idea what to think and was confused as hell. All I had was other people's reactions to go by but having watched that scene, I'm confidant that that wasn't Chloe.

[Animation]

Influence? Maybe.
Control? No.

Lewis

[marikology]

Of course not. In bullet points:

In Plastique she told Bette that you DON'T kill people.
Brainiac has been around for three years and has had ample opportunity to expose Clark. He hasn't done it yet. Clearly, he wants to keep him secret for some reason.
She was confused because she was probably coming back on-line and wondering what the heck was going on or just happened.
The previouslies, which we almost never get in the middle of the season, were ALL about her Brainiac infection.
In the very same episode she told Clark, "I've never gone against your wishes regarding your secret." There's no way she'd think he would want her to do that. She called Lana out for it in "Wrath." Clearly, she knows that Clark would never want that.
Chloe has never advocated killing. Before everyone jumps on "Quest" please review the dialogue:
Chloe: Every battle has its victor. I know you don't want to take Lex out, but Lex will not hesitate to destroy you.
Clark: What do you want me to do Chloe, kill him? (Chloe doesn't answer.) If I do that, I'd be turning into him myself.
Chloe: Whether you like being in this predicament or not, you are put in this position, and someday, you are going to have to play God.

In other words, she is specifically talking about Lex trying to destroy Clark, and one of them might not come out alive. It's worst-case-scenario type speculation specific to that situation. It is not a command for him to go kill Lex.

Meteor powers are usually a reflection of a person's personality. Chloe's was healing, as she's always been depicted as compassionate. ("Tomb") Why would she suddenly detach from this and kill a man?
This show is not subtle. It's been vague as to if he's controlling her actions, so just like with Kara crashing the plane, it didn't leave any room for argument. Chloe Sullivan has risked her own life to help save Clark and the world. Would she actually put on a pair of black gloves and go kill someone for Clark, in her right mind? Really? That goes beyond fanwank. It's just plain unsupported by the show.

I'm curious what the reaction will be when Lois goes on an assaulting rampage next week. Will it be 100% Lois or will she get an ICONIC pass? like Lana got for Buffy Summers and Genevieve Teague?

And I know saying and doing are two different things, but Clark actually stated that, in his grief, he would have killed the gang member in "Vengeance" or Lex in "Bizarro". So even if its going to be argued that she's acting out some deep-seated base instinct, it's something that at least Clark has felt, too.

[myankskent]

Lets agree in disagree for me she was in control, the last look for ME was more like conflict that she actually did what she did than snapping out of it, if she was snapping she would have stop to question how she got there and she would have turn around to see the commotion on Sebastian's rooms.


I'd have to agree with this. When Chloe was walking out of there, it certainly looked like she knew what she had done given the expression on her face. If she suddenly was coming out of some hold that Brainiac had on her, she definitely would've stopped and wondered where she was and how she got there. Also, the code blue would've at least made Chloe take a look at what was going on rather than having her get out of there as fast as she could without looking back, IMO.

[Kevin24]

Well again going by the past...she was willing to scrify Lex to protect Clark's secret so the thoughts have always been there....

Lets agree in disagree for me she was in control, the last look for ME was more like conflict that she actually did what she did than snapping out of it, if she was snapping she would have stop to question how she got there and she would have turn around to see the commotion on Sebastian's rooms.

Lets agree in disagree again.

I agree if she really didn't know why she was there she would have reacted differently.

Her reaction was exactly what you say Tariksam that she was definitely in conflict with what she just did. Her facial expression said "What have I done?"

[lexs&os]

I don't think she was in control and I think that will be more obviouse over the next few episodes - it's not in Chloe's nature to kill

[Malicieux Toutou]

Maybe because knowing what the guy knew would mess up whatever Brainiac is trying to do here. The guy would have gone back and told Tess about Clark and that would ultimately ruin whatever plan Brainiac has right now.

Yeah, that's possible. I just can't imagine why it would ruin his plan, and so until that is explained, I think the best explanation, given the current evidence, is that Chloe was achieving her own objectives and has simply been morally corrupted by Brainiac.

[Monica_O]

I have to say that is completely obvious that she wasn't herself, not only the way she acted, her comments about the "human mind" the way she was dressed and her gloves but the face she had the moment she steped out of the room really showed that she had no idea how what happened in that room happened.

That was Brainiac at his prime, you can almost see a reflexion of Dr. Fine's expressions in Chloe's face when she was inside the room and she gets back to herself when she's out.

It was really creepy to see the way she was totally out.

[celita]

Look at her face when she is killing that guy, she is scared, she isn't enjoying it at all:

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/2968/bscap0504oc0.jpg


Now look at Braniac'sface when he killed his maker:

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/8421/bscap0431ms9.jpg


Braniac likes to kill people,he does it with not remorse at all,that my friends,it's our same old Chloe, but corrupted.

[miks]

It was obvious it was Brainiac because look at the symbols in Sebastian's eyes as he dies. Someone please provide a screen cap!

[AndrewVDk]

Blah, blah, blah! Who cares, Chloe rocks!
But just for the record, i think she wasn't in control!

[Dustmite]

Braniac likes to kill people,he does it with not remorse at all,that my friends,it's our same old Chloe, but corrupted.

I don't get what you're saying here :confused:

[ChlarkCandy]

I would have to say no, it wasn't Chloe.

In the hospital room she was completely void of emotion, expressionless and condescending and calculating. All attributes of Brainiac... especially given her little spiel about the HUMAN mind. After wards as she was walking out, the rapid blinking indicated to me Chloe coming back on line. Followed by her confusion.

As to why would Brainiac do that?
I think it had less to do with Clark's secret and everything to do with it's own secret. Inside Clark holds the truth to Brainiac, what he is, what he can do and that she is infected with him. I think it was more self preservation than anything else. And possibly with a side of his own hidden agenda. More than ever before I believe Chloiac is X. And Tess is not ready yet.

That's all from me on the topic. Happy Halloween!

[Kevin24]

Look at her face when she is killing that guy, she is scared, she isn't enjoying it at all:

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/2968/bscap0504oc0.jpg


Now look at Braniac'sface when he killed his maker:

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/8421/bscap0431ms9.jpg


Braniac likes to kill people,he does it with not remorse at all,that my friends,it's our same old Chloe, but corrupted.

Yup! She does look worried about what she is doing.

[celita]

It was obvious it was Brainiac because look at the symbols in Sebastian's eyes as he dies. Someone please provide a screen cap!


But she is corrupted by braniac.

[Dustmite]

But she is corrupted by braniac.

But you just said it was the same old Chloe.

[celita]

I don't get what you're saying here :confused:

Chloe doesn't seem to be glad while killing that guy, butwhen Braniac Killshe enjoys it,so it's not Braniac who killed that guy, was Chloe, corrupted by Braniac,but still her. She knew what she was doing.

[Monica_O]

Brainiac's work

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/MonicaOP/smllvll0807-notv_0001.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/MonicaOP/smllvll0807-notv_0002.jpg

Not Chloe!!!!

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/MonicaOP/smllvll0807-notv_0004.jpg

[ChlarkCandy]

This is her face when she is killing him, and she is almost smiling!
It was Brainiac!

http://thumbsnap.com/images/xr1PTg2w.jpg

Yup. She doesn't look worried to me. Rather imo is seems very unaffected by what she's doing. And for someone who plays her scenes with a lot of facial expression -You can always tell what Chloe's feeling from her face, despite of her words - This says a lot.

It's Brainiac.

[celita]

But you just said it was the same old Chloe.

I said It was the same all Chloe but corrupted. That means "Dark Chloe" ifyouprefer that term. She is corruptedby Braniac powers but is still herself making her own choices. She is not like Ginny Weasley in "the chamber of secrets" she knows what's is happening. It's not Braniac looking like Chloe or driving her body. It's the same Chloe of always that wascorrupted by her new powers.

[AndrewVDk]

This is her face when she is killing him, and she is almost smiling!
It was Brainiac!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FawYUpV8oEs

http://thumbsnap.com/images/xr1PTg2w.jpg

[Kevin24]

Looking at the better quality pictures you can definitely tell that she didn't really care that she was doing what she doing.

[Ayanne]

It's obvious Chloe was not in control. What we saw was typical of Brainiac (as proof, it's exactly how we saw him kill, as he was impersonating Kara on the Plane last year. )

It goes completely against 8 years of Chloe's characterization.

She's infected by Brainiac & he is now revealing his level of control/influence & has his own agenda for killing Sebastian. I think Brainiac has the Crystal & he needs Clark to use it.

[ChlarkCandy]

Looking at the better quality pictures you can definitely tell that she didn't really care that she was doing what she doing.


Exactly. So the question is why would she care after she was done? Because it was Brainiac in the drivers seat.

[Dustmite]

I said It was the same all Chloe but corrupted. That means "Dark Chloe" ifyouprefer that term. She is corruptedby Braniac powers but is still herself making her own choices. She is not like Ginny Weasley in "the chamber of secrets" she knows what's is happening. It's not Braniac looking like Chloe or driving her body. It's the same Chloe of always that wascorrupted by her new powers.

It's a contradiction in terms. She can't be the same old Chloe and yet be different because of her corruptions. Chloe without Brainiac would never have killed, would never have made that choice so it's a moot point IMO.

Thanks for the pic Milos. That's not my Chloe.

[myankskent]

It was obvious it was Brainiac because look at the symbols in Sebastian's eyes as he dies.


I don't think that proves that it's Brainiac. It just proves that Chloe has one of his powers.

[Kevin24]

She is aware of what is going on though. He might take over but she must be conscience during it because her reaction afterwards wasn't one of confusion but one of remorse and conflict.

I remember someone mentioning in this thread that in Toxic there was proof that Chloe had blackouts of some sorts? Does anyone know about this? Did I miss something during Toxic?

[kp1984]

Think about it. She would have never killed someone, so I assume she lets Brainiac to take the lead, maybe she likes her new side, being influenced by Brainiac. Anyway, she was hot, and I would never expected to be her. I thought it was Tess who's going to murder Sebastian.

I thought it was Tess too

[OliviaB]

No. I thought it was pretty obvious that Chloe was not in control.

For me too. She looked confused coming out of the room like she didn't know why or how that just happened.

----- Added 42 Seconds later -----


Exactly. So the question is why would she care after she was done? Because it was Brainiac in the drivers seat.

Exactly.

[Hidden Krypton]

Hi to all! I think Chloe is in denial about the effects of Brainiac on her. I see her as a vessel to hold Brainiac's regenerative self until he is ready to be re-born. At a critical point in Clark's life, Chloe is going to be cast off as the "Brainiac's essence" shell and Clark will have to deal with him again. It would make sense for him to leave enough of himself to re-generate. Pretty good episode, though. I am SO READY FOR CLARK TO BECOME SUPERMAN!!!!!!:D

[ChlarkCandy]

It's all semantics. If it was Brainiac? If it was Chloe? If it was his influence or if he was in control? And I say, none of it really matters. It's all coming from the same place. Chloe in her right mind would never murder someone in cold blood.
She's infected with Brainiac. So it wasn't a decision that the Chloe that we know would ever consciously make. So it was all Brainiac. I don't see the big debate... unless people want Chloe to be murderer, for whatever reason people have to disprove of her character. And if that was the case, PS3 would of just had Chloe commit murder without the introduction of Brainiac.

[Kevin24]

Like I said in another thread what if Chloe wasn't talking about Clark at all but about a different person?

Some people believe Brainiac took over and haven't really given a solid reason why he would protect Clark. What if Brainiac was really talking about someone else? and protecting that person? Then Brainiac taking over and killing Seb would make more sense.

[celita]

It's a contradiction in terms. She can't be the same old Chloe and yet be different because of her corruptions. Chloe without Brainiac would never have killed, would never have made that choice so it's a moot point IMO.

Thanks for the pic Milos. That's not my Chloe.

Let's see this way. Ginny Weasley was driven by Voldemort and she didn't knew it, she didn't know what happened to that people, she wasn't guilty. Just like Davis right now,he know he has black outs ,but he is not awake while he kills people.

Now if Ginny had Volvemort's powers and she was corrupted by that powers and she used to hurt people she would be guilty, she would be corrupted Ginny, but still Ginny. Do you see my point? Chloe is corrupted Chloe but she is not being driven by anyone, she knows what she is doing. It's not the same 'corrupted Chloe' doing things that Braniac using Chloe's body to do those things.

It's like Clark in red kryptonite, he is corrupted, but he is still Clark Kent, now, Lexod was a different think, Zod was using Lex's body but Lex was just a vessel.

[TWNik]

Brainiac's work

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/MonicaOP/smllvll0807-notv_0001.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/MonicaOP/smllvll0807-notv_0002.jpg

Not Chloe!!!!

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/MonicaOP/smllvll0807-notv_0004.jpg

Absolutely NOT! These pictures are very conclusive that Chloe is NOT in control.

You can see it's Brainiac in the guy's eyes. It's a COMPUTER program, & to conclude it's not Brainiac, you would have to ignore the facts of Chloe's infection, her loss of time. Brainiac is taking Chloe over.

[Animation]

To clarify my position:

Brainiac wasn't controlling her, but she does have some Brainiac style powers (which is why we see her victim's eyes look like they did in the scene).

Chloe WAS in control. However, she isn't the same Chloe she was before.

So, I would "give her a pass" in the sense that she essentially has a disease or, as Clark has called it, an infection.

I just don't feel Brainiac was in control. I think she is free-willed but her mental state is changing, not unlike getting mad cow disease, or heck, even drinking booze, or being on Red K.

Also, there is every possibility that she knew she'd erase his knowledge but not necessarily be sure he would go into cardiac arrest or whatever.

Anyway, I think it is a cool development for her and the show, whether it ends up that I'm right or wrong.

Lewis

[Dustmite]

Let's see this way. Ginny Weasley was driven by Voldemort and she didn't knew it, she didn't know what happened to that people, she wasn't guilty. Just like Davis right now,he know he has black outs ,but he is not awake while he kills people.

Now if Ginny had Volvemort's powers and she was corrupted by that powers and she used to hurt people she would be guilty, she would be corrupted Ginny, but still Ginny. Do you see my point? Chloe is corrupted Chloe but she is not being driven by anyone, she knows what she is doing. It's not the same 'corrupted Chloe' doing things that Braniac using Chloe's body to do those things.

It's like Clark in red kryptonite, he is corrupted, but he is still Clark Kent, now, Lexod was a different think, Zod was using Lex's body but Lex was just a vessel.

I don't think there's any evidence to say that she is not being driven by anything.

[kiariclois]

yes -- she's in control. She has to guilty look at the end and if Braniac was controlling her, she wouldn't look guilty and Braniac has no reason to keep Clark's secret... But we'll see.

Chloe obviously likes her new power and she was hesitant when Clark tried to find a way to help her get rid of it. She might be a power-crazed kinda person now. All the power has made her lost her mind -- I guess.

[myankskent]

To clarify my position:

Brainiac wasn't controlling her, but she does have some Brainiac style powers (which is why we see her victim's eyes look like they did in the scene).


Exactly, and we already knew she had Brainiac style powers with her increased intelligence.



I just don't feel Brainiac was in control.


Neither do I and when I think about it, isn't the point of this storyline getting Brainiac in control? If he can take over Chloe whenever he feels like it, game over. He doesn't have to do anything but move ahead with his plan, but the bottom line is that he needs to have enough power to take over Chloe's body, and he doesn't currently.

[ms.c.]

I can't believe this thread exists. AM was brilliant. She was doing a James Marsters as Brainiac impersonation. She did the little smile he would do as Brainiac. The arrogant tone. The lack of reaction while causing pain to others. AM had James Marsters as Brainiac down pat. She wasn't Chloe at all and she did a great job showing that.

[Who]

Not sure who is in control, but she is definately heavily influenced by Brainaic. Could she be X?

[Firebunny]

Not sure who is in control, but she is definately heavily influenced by Brainaic. Could she be X? I'm positive she is X, but she doesn't know she's the one who stole the crystal.

[margroks]

It's ridiculous to claim Chloe was the one who killed. Chloe is not a killer and that's perfectly clear to me having watched her all these years. Brainiac is forcing her to do a lot of things she wouldn't normally do. She's possessed, for Pete's sake!

[Kevin24]

Chloe is well aware of her Brainiac powers and has used it since the premiere. Then last night supposedly Brainiac took over and killed Seb. and then when she was walking out she became Chloe again? That is a blackout?

Brainiac is smarter then that. If it really was him who killed the guy then the next scene would have been Chloe waking up the next day without any recollection of what happened the night before. But instead they show us Chloe walking out with a conflicted look on her face.

[borednow]

It's obvious Chloe was not in control. What we saw was typical of Brainiac (as proof, it's exactly how we saw him kill, as he was impersonating Kara on the Plane last year. )

It goes completely against 8 years of Chloe's characterization.

She's infected by Brainiac & he is now revealing his level of control/influence & has his own agenda for killing Sebastian. I think Brainiac has the Crystal & he needs Clark to use it.

Why would my baby want to kill a guy to protect Clark??? When he was impersonating Kara he causally killed that guy while trying to find out info on how to hurt Clark. Sorry but here... only Chloe had the motive.

[All about Clark]

Why would my baby want to kill a guy to protect Clark??? When he was impersonating Kara he causally killed that guy while trying to find out info on how to hurt Clark. Sorry but here... only Chloe had the motive.

I have to agree. Braniac does need Clark alive to rebuild the fortress so that he can force Clark to use the fortress. But Braniac doesn't care if he hurts him along the way, and Chloe wouldn't want to hurt Clark. This is Chloe here acting more as a computer than a human being. But it is still her.

[SpiritedDiva]

That was not Chloe. The casual way she spoke, with the nearly condescending
tone. Chloe was cast as compassionate, emphasized by her healing ability.
That's a complete 180 if you ask me. She has been a heroine to this story, not a villian.
But, Braniac has. Braniac is getting stronger. She had been acting odd most of this season. But, hardly murderous. It can be considered gradual because, Chloe manages to come back to herself. Eventually, I'm sure that won't be the case.

[Kevin24]

I have to agree. Braniac does need Clark alive to rebuild the fortress so that he can force Clark to use the fortress. But Braniac doesn't care if he hurts him along the way, and Chloe wouldn't want to hurt Clark. This is Chloe here acting more as a computer than a human being. But it is still her.

That sounds like a spoiler to me:\

[All about Clark]

^Um, it's not, it's my opinion.

[marikology]

what I don't get is, possession/mind whammy is a plot point used dozens of times on this show over the past 8 years, and nobody has really been held accountable when they were clearly not in control. (Not counting Kal.) Why is it that this particular instance of Chloe Sullivan's actions is suddenly, without a doubt, 100% Chloe?

In my opinion, this is like implying that if she was not Brainiac infected, she wouldn't have overloaded his brain, she would have just gone in there and shot him in the head with a silenced gun.

I'm irrationally annoyed by this.

[lillie_poo_pod]

In my opinion, this is like implying that if she was not Brainiac infected, she wouldn't have overloaded his brain, she would have just gone in there and shot him in the head with a silenced gun.

I'm irrationally annoyed by this.

SO.MUCH.WORD.

[clarkbunny]

Why is everyone assuming that the FOW is dead? She did something to him and all the alarms went off but I think she just overloaded his mind - it will reboot and he'll be OK he just won't remember what he read from Clark.

I think the whole thing with Chloe overloading the computer at the Isis centre was a clue to her new ability - she just applied this to the FOW's mind.

To summise I think this is still Chloe and not Brainiac.

[madcloisfan]

i don't think she had any control at all

[Kevin24]

Chloe was definitely influenced by Brainiac. I still think she was aware of everything that was happening because of her reaction at the end.

Chloe was conscience but her moral code is being messed up by Brainiac.

[Dustmite]

In my opinion, this is like implying that if she was not Brainiac infected, she wouldn't have overloaded his brain, she would have just gone in there and shot him in the head with a silenced gun.

This is the exact point that I've trying to make. To say Brainiac had no influence on her is to say that Chloe without being infected by Brainiac would be killing people, right, left and centre.

[Kevin24]

Chloe is definitely being influenced by Braiiniac but I just don't think he took over when that killing happened.

[ChlarkCandy]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by marikology http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4120765#post4120765)
In my opinion, this is like implying that if she was not Brainiac infected, she wouldn't have overloaded his brain, she would have just gone in there and shot him in the head with a silenced gun.

I'm irrationally annoyed by this.


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
SO.MUCH.WORD.


Massive amounts of WORD!!!!

I'll weigh in again. Something that just came to me. First off, technically Chloe/Brainiac didn't kill Sebastian, his very own MF power killed him. (But that's a story for another time.)

Anywho. Brainiac is an alien super computer. Meaning he is entity solely designed to harbor and process data. He effectively harbors and processes an obsene amount of data obviously from the unknown and known galaxies. Right? Right!

Sebastian's power enables him to steal (debatable) memories. But we've seen that he's able to peak into people's minds and scan their memories.

Proof it was not Chloe and indeed unequivocally Brainiac.

Sebastian didn't get any memories from Chloe. Sebastian only got data streams. Information which overloaded, short circuited his brain. If it was Chloe, even a little bit, wouldn't he have seen some or even a glimpse of her memories at least enough to know what is happening to him? But he didn't. It was an automatic download of information.

Not Chloe. All Brainiac.

Also, I am reading a lot about Chloe's new power. Or Brainiac's power. This from Wiki.
Brainiac's advanced mental powers have shown him capable of possessing others, transferring his consciousness, creating and manipulating computer systems, and exerting some control over time and space.

He is possessing Chloe. Tranferring his consciousness to Chloe and manipulating her brain. As stated in Identity the human mind is like a computer.

[costas22]

I think he might have clouded her judgement,but her reaction afterwards sort of reminded me of the episode Spirit.At that episode,when the spirit of that girl the body of a character,they had the same confused look that Chloe yesterday.As if they didn't know how they got there.

Can i ask something?When Chloe was in ISIS and Clark and Jimmy visited her,why did the computers she was using start to break down?Is there some significance to that in terms of Brainiac's influence?

[susangail]

^^^ Really good question. It was like she was sucking the "life" out of them.

[marikology]

Why would my baby want to kill a guy to protect Clark??? When he was impersonating Kara he causally killed that guy while trying to find out info on how to hurt Clark. Sorry but here... only Chloe had the motive.

This is my spec, but IF X is indeed Brainiac, the show has already explained the motive. Sebastian had to go because he was working for Tess. According to X, Tess is NOT READY. Whatever he is planning or trying to accomplish, he doesn't want Tess in on it at this time.


I still think she was aware of everything that was happening because of her reaction at the end.

Her reaction shot is subjective. I think she looked confused like she was coming out of a fog. Others think she looked guilty/remorseful or conflicted. As it was the last shot of the episode, there's nothing to definitively say so either way, but personally, I'm giving the other seven years of characterization the benefit of the doubt.

[ChlarkCandy]

Can i ask something?When Chloe was in ISIS and Clark and Jimmy visited her,why did the computers she was using start to break down?Is there some significance to that in terms of Brainiac's influence?

IMO, it's proof that Brainiac's power is growing.

[savingpeoplething]

What "Chloe" did at the end of "Identity" showed she was not in control.

a) Chloe would never kill anyone.
b) Chloe was wearing black which always means someone is either not themselves, is out of control, or is evil
c) "Chloe" professionally killed the dude by wearing black gloves. :)
d) When "Chloe" got into the hallway, she looked seriously confused, which seemed to be a giveaway to me that she didn't know what was going on with either herself or things going on around her.
e) the Previously on Smallville made sure that we were reminded about Brainiac's attack and that something was not right with her.

I find it hard to believe that Chloe was actually IN CONTROL when she did what she did at the end of "Identity" and I think the Previously, in and of itself, was helping us make that connection.

[myankskent]

what I don't get is, possession/mind whammy is a plot point used dozens of times on this show over the past 8 years, and nobody has really been held accountable when they were clearly not in control. (Not counting Kal.) Why is it that this particular instance of Chloe Sullivan's actions is suddenly, without a doubt, 100% Chloe?



We still don't know if this is possession or Chloe using her new powers to achieve her goals. One thing is for sure, IMO. Chloe did nothing to try and get rid of her increased intelligence when she first got it even after Clark warned her that Brainiac was behind it and it has now spiralled out of control on her. Chloe, IMO, should take a hit for that especially after knowing what Brainiac just got done doing to Lana. As far as this episode goes, even if it's not Brainiac, the damage is already done to Chloe. She embraced her new powers and it has now corrupted her. There's no way for her to go back now, IMO.

[Arwenstar]

I guess her clear confusion at the end wasn't a red flag for some people. :\ She was taken over by Braniac at that point, managed to return to herself, and was clearly very confused in a "what have I done" way. She's losing time, just like Dooms. It's kind of the theme here.


So, NO she was NOT in control. Chloe Sullivan is somebody that wants to save people, she originally had the power of healing, and she's always inspiring Clark to be a hero. Clark has always commended her and basically only her on what a kind and caring person she is. I don't think there is any way that she could have been in her right mind and outright murder someone. Unless one has skipped out on the past few seasons, then I think it's pretty clear that Chloe's not the type to just off someone. :lol:

[Jade4813]

what I don't get is, possession/mind whammy is a plot point used dozens of times on this show over the past 8 years, and nobody has really been held accountable when they were clearly not in control. (Not counting Kal.) Why is it that this particular instance of Chloe Sullivan's actions is suddenly, without a doubt, 100% Chloe?

In my opinion, this is like implying that if she was not Brainiac infected, she wouldn't have overloaded his brain, she would have just gone in there and shot him in the head with a silenced gun.

I'm irrationally annoyed by this.

:\ I don't see it that way. I don't think it's 100% Chloe, but I don't think it was 100% Brainiac either. I think it was a little of both. Last night, I used the analogy of "Boromir" from LotR. He was corrupted by the One Ring; being near it obviously influenced him. And so he acted as he wouldn't have acted otherwise because he was corrupted - he tried to attack Frodo to get to it. But, at the same time, his underlying motivation for wanting the Ring - to save Gondor - was his own motivation. Now, had he been exposed longer, I think it's clear he would have wanted it for the power it would give him. But Chloe's at, IMO, the same place Boromir was at in that last scene with Frodo. The motivation for doing what he did was his own, but the ring corrupted him so that he did things that he wouldn't have otherwise done to seek the ends he personally wanted to achieve.

Here, I think that's what's going on with Chloe. I think the motivation to protect Clark and his secret is her own. But the Brainiac corruptive influence did cause her to do things she otherwise wouldn't have done (very likely) in order to pursue those ends.

Just as in LotR also, I don't think it makes Chloe an inherently evil person. Boromir died in an attempt to protect Merry and Pippin. I don't think Chloe will die, but Boromir's death did make it clear that, once away from the influence of the Ring, he was a good man at heart. I also think that it will be made clear that Chloe is a good person at heart once she's away from Brainiac's influence - though, as with the Ring, I think that this could change if she's exposed to Brainiac for too long. (As with Frodo - he didn't become a bad guy at the end, but he was obviously tainted in some way by the exposure to the Ring; it never really left him, it became a shadow in his mind and heart that he couldn't entirely escape.) I doubt they'll have this happen to Chloe. I think she'll live in the end, the influence of Brainiac will eventually leave her, and she'll still be shown to be the person underneath that she was before, fundamentally.

But I also don't think that it was 100% Brainiac in the hospital room. I do think Chloe was, as Boromir, the actor in the situation. It was her goals she was pursuing, and it seemed to me in the hallway scene that she was a little shaken, conflicted at what she did. Because to the extent that she acted, I think that was Brainiac's influence. His presence in her mind corrupted her to the point where she found her actions to be an acceptable course of action - though I think there's part of her that recognizes that maybe her decision to kill wasn't entirely her own (which is to say, something she would have chosen to do pre-Brainiac).

As to whether or not Chloe is a terrible person or should be held accountable for her actions, once the Brainiac influence has left her...Well, personally, though I do think that Chloe was in charge of her body, pursuing her own ends, I don't discount the Brainiac influence. I think, if after the Brainiac influence has left Chloe, she kills again, then, yes, she's a killer. But as it stands now, when Brainiac leaves her, I don't personally hold her accountable for the murder in my mind because, though she was pursuing her own goals, I can't say with certainty that the decision to kill is one she'd have made without Brainiac's influence upon her. Brainiac influenced her, IMO, pushing her over the line she might otherwise not have crossed. (I cannot say that she definitely WOULDN'T have crossed it under any circumstances under her own power and without any outside influence - it's something that's not really come up, and people's limits cannot be determined until they've been fully tested. It might take a LOT, but I think pretty much anyone can be driven to murder under the right circumstances - and a necessary and immediate need to protect of one's self and others from grave harm or death does often drive people to acts they wouldn't otherwise commit. It's not a judgment call on her as a character.) Thus, I can't hold her accountable for the murder.

I will say, however, that I would not be surprised if she did feel guilty for what she did, even if she recognized that it wasn't entirely her who did it. But, then again, it was clear with Lana that there was no part of her that was in control of her - everything, including her body, her motives, etc., was clearly controlled by Isobel when she was possessed because she often acted against Lana's own desires when Isobel acted. And yet I think that it would have been perfectly natural if even Lana would have felt guilty for what Isobel did in her own body. It may not be rational, and neither Chloe nor Lana may be deserving of blame for their actions, IMO. But I do think it would be within human nature to feel guilty for what you did - even while you weren't in control of your body - because it's just hard to dissociate from yourself in that fashion. So while I don't think Chloe is deserving of blame for her actions at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if she felt she carried some guilt initially for them because I imagine it would be just plain hard to rationalize to yourself that you killed someone but weren't really in control of your actions when you did.

Just my POV. I don't think it's a black and white, gotta be entirely 100% one thing or another kind of issue.

[Chlarkislove]

Chloe is well aware of her Brainiac powers and has used it since the premiere. Then last night supposedly Brainiac took over and killed Seb. and then when she was walking out she became Chloe again? That is a blackout?

Brainiac is smarter then that. If it really was him who killed the guy then the next scene would have been Chloe waking up the next day without any recollection of what happened the night before. But instead they show us Chloe walking out with a conflicted look on her face.

Being aware and being in control are two different things. It's like people who are under the control of substances they are aware of what they are doing but they are not totally in control we always hear of how drugs alternate a person. Same thing with Chloe. Just because she may be aware of what Brainiac is doing doesn't mean she can control it. He is taken over her like a drug. The only way she could be in control of her life again is to get rid of him from being inside of her body, like a drug user going through detox and finally being free of the substance abuse.

[Kevin24]

I agree that she wouldn't kill someone and that Brainiac is influencing her somehow. Her look at the end doesn't tell me that she was confused but conflicted.

If Brainiac did indeed take over completely then I am lead to believe that Chloe was conscience the entire time it was happening because of how she reacted afterwards. She was fleeing the scene!

[DGirlLois4Clark]

It was Chloe by law. Isnt this similar to what happened to Lana in season 4. People were quick to ridicule Lana then..whats so different now?
It was Chloe alright.

There was no sign of brainiac throughout this episode, so I say Chloe is well aware of what she has done. You can see how sad she was when she left. She should hand herself in to police or tell someone :lol:

[THE"Lurker"]

:\ I don't see it that way. I don't think it's 100% Chloe, but I don't think it was 100% Brainiac either. I think it was a little of both. Last night, I used the analogy of "Boromir" from LotR. He was corrupted by the One Ring; being near it obviously influenced him. And so he acted as he wouldn't have acted otherwise because he was corrupted - he tried to attack Frodo to get to it. But, at the same time, his underlying motivation for wanting the Ring - to save Gondor - was his own motivation. Now, had he been exposed longer, I think it's clear he would have wanted it for the power it would give him. But Chloe's at, IMO, the same place Boromir was at in that last scene with Frodo. The motivation for doing what he did was his own, but the ring corrupted him so that he did things that he wouldn't have otherwise done to seek the ends he personally wanted to achieve.

Here, I think that's what's going on with Chloe. I think the motivation to protect Clark and his secret is her own. But the Brainiac corruptive influence did cause her to do things she otherwise wouldn't have done (very likely) in order to pursue those ends.

Just as in LotR also, I don't think it makes Chloe an inherently evil person. Boromir died in an attempt to protect Merry and Pippin. I don't think Chloe will die, but Boromir's death did make it clear that, once away from the influence of the Ring, he was a good man at heart. I also think that it will be made clear that Chloe is a good person at heart once she's away from Brainiac's influence - though, as with the Ring, I think that this could change if she's exposed to Brainiac for too long. (As with Frodo - he didn't become a bad guy at the end, but he was obviously tainted in some way by the exposure to the Ring; it never really left him, it became a shadow in his mind and heart that he couldn't entirely escape.) I doubt they'll have this happen to Chloe. I think she'll live in the end, the influence of Brainiac will eventually leave her, and she'll still be shown to be the person underneath that she was before, fundamentally.

But I also don't think that it was 100% Brainiac in the hospital room. I do think Chloe was, as Boromir, the actor in the situation. It was her goals she was pursuing, and it seemed to me in the hallway scene that she was a little shaken, conflicted at what she did. Because to the extent that she acted, I think that was Brainiac's influence. His presence in her mind corrupted her to the point where she found her actions to be an acceptable course of action - though I think there's part of her that recognizes that maybe her decision to kill wasn't entirely her own (which is to say, something she would have chosen to do pre-Brainiac).

As to whether or not Chloe is a terrible person or should be held accountable for her actions, once the Brainiac influence has left her...Well, personally, though I do think that Chloe was in charge of her body, pursuing her own ends, I don't discount the Brainiac influence. I think, if after the Brainiac influence has left Chloe, she kills again, then, yes, she's a killer. But as it stands now, when Brainiac leaves her, I don't personally hold her accountable for the murder in my mind because, though she was pursuing her own goals, I can't say with certainty that the decision to kill is one she'd have made without Brainiac's influence upon her. Brainiac influenced her, IMO, pushing her over the line she might otherwise not have crossed. (I cannot say that she definitely WOULDN'T have crossed it under any circumstances under her own power and without any outside influence - it's something that's not really come up, and people's limits cannot be determined until they've been fully tested. It might take a LOT, but I think pretty much anyone can be driven to murder under the right circumstances - and a necessary and immediate need to protect of one's self and others from grave harm or death does often drive people to acts they wouldn't otherwise commit. It's not a judgment call on her as a character.) Thus, I can't hold her accountable for the murder.

I will say, however, that I would not be surprised if she did feel guilty for what she did, even if she recognized that it wasn't entirely her who did it. But, then again, it was clear with Lana that there was no part of her that was in control of her - everything, including her body, her motives, etc., was clearly controlled by Isobel when she was possessed because she often acted against Lana's own desires when Isobel acted. And yet I think that it would have been perfectly natural if even Lana would have felt guilty for what Isobel did in her own body. It may not be rational, and neither Chloe nor Lana may be deserving of blame for their actions, IMO. But I do think it would be within human nature to feel guilty for what you did - even while you weren't in control of your body - because it's just hard to dissociate from yourself in that fashion. So while I don't think Chloe is deserving of blame for her actions at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if she felt she carried some guilt initially for them because I imagine it would be just plain hard to rationalize to yourself that you killed someone but weren't really in control of your actions when you did.

Just my POV. I don't think it's a black and white, gotta be entirely 100% one thing or another kind of issue.

Well said Jade i too dont think it was 100% Brainy or Chloe, if anything you could say we need a both option:cool:

[myankskent]

Just because she may be aware of what Brainiac is doing doesn't mean she can control it. He is taken over her like a drug.


If that's the case, I still go back to the beginning of the season when Clark warned Chloe about these powers. At that point, I believe that Chloe still had a choice to try and get rid of the powers or avoid using them but she decided to treat them as a gift and told Clark not to worry, that she would just see what happens. That was a dangerous decision for her to make and that has what ultimately led her to where she is now, IMO.

[superhippie2000]

i think its chloe but has brainiacs "emotions". she might be at this point like davis where they dont know whats going on deep inside them. im sure she will be 100 ercent evil at some point or wind up dying when brainiac removes himself from her. if he goes back to being milton fine.

[Jade4813]

It was Chloe by law. Isnt this similar to what happened to Lana in season 4. People were quick to ridicule Lana then..whats so different now?
It was Chloe alright.

There was no sign of brainiac throughout this episode, so I say Chloe is well aware of what she has done. You can see how sad she was when she left. She should hand herself in to police or tell someone :lol:

:lol: Well, I hate to disagree with you, but maybe not. Chloe committed the actus reus, but the mens rea - the guilty mind - is still up for debate. ;) Of course "possession by computer" would be hard to prove at a court of law. But, provided someone could prove it, it would almost certainly lessen her sentence if not exonerate her completely, depending on what degree the Court found her blameworthiness to be lessened by the computer being in her head.

It's not in any legal textbook, but I suppose it's possible that "I was possessed by Brainiac" could be an affirmative legal defense. :lol:

[/geek out]

[Chlarkislove]

If that's the case, I still go back to the beginning of the season when Clark warned Chloe about these powers. At that point, I believe that Chloe still had a choice to try and get rid of the powers or avoid using them but she decided to treat them as a gift and told Clark not to worry, that she would just see what happens. That was a dangerous decision for her to make and that has what ultimately led her to where she is now, IMO.

How was she going to get rid of them? I mean Clark didn't know how. How is Chloe supposed to know? Clark thought the only way was by rebuilding the AI and the only way was by using the crystal, but I don't see much of an effort in getting it. He's the only one who could activate it except for maybe Brainiac and do we see him activating the AI agian? I doubt it.

[Arwenstar]

Chloe would feel guilty for her actions, even if she wasn't in control. I agree there because it's very much like Chloe to take responsibility for her actions. I think Braniac's influence definitely pushed the envelope for her to kill, but the question remains: would she have killed if Braniac hadn't been inside of her? I think the answer is a solid NO. We haven't seen anything of the sort in any previous seasons.

Although you draw some pretty good similarities between LOTR and Braniac, Jade, we have to remember that it stems from the fact that Braniac is essentially a parasite that's using Chloe as a host. That is how I see it. Parasites normally influence their hosts' behavior in accordance to their own needs. The ring was a temptation of power that appealed to man's greedy nature.

Braniac needs Chloe to be conflicted, to think she was evill, and to be apart from Clark in order for him to thrive. He's slowly gaining more and more power with each step she takes DEPARTING from her natural self.

[DGirlLois4Clark]

^^^ I guess so Jade:). Maybe she can demonstrate some of her brainiac powers to show she wasnt in control, if she ever gets arrested :lol:

[Dustmite]

We still don't know if this is possession or Chloe using her new powers to achieve her goals.

When has killing people been one of Chloe's goals?


That was a dangerous decision for her to make and that has what ultimately led her to where she is now, IMO.

Maybe so bu that does not make her evil.

[myankskent]

How was she going to get rid of them? I mean Clark didn't know how. How is Chloe supposed to know?


I think that if Chloe had agreed that the powers were a problem, there probably would've been more of a sense of urgency to find ways to get rid of the powers. Clark was ready to do it and Chloe kept telling him to forget about it. Also, getting rid of the powers was no doubt a problem, but Chloe decided to use these powers continuously and IMO, her making the decision to use the powers has potentially made Brainiac stronger inside of her. Just look at Lana last year. The longer she had Clark's power, the worse she got. I'd imagine that as the time Chloe has Brainiac's powers increases, the less human she is.

[marikology]

:\ I don't see it that way. I don't think it's 100% Chloe, but I don't think it was 100% Brainiac either. ... Here, I think that's what's going on with Chloe. I think the motivation to protect Clark and his secret is her own. But the Brainiac corruptive influence did cause her to do things she otherwise wouldn't have done (very likely) in order to pursue those ends.

As to whether or not Chloe is a terrible person or should be held accountable for her actions, once the Brainiac influence has left her...Well, personally, though I do think that Chloe was in charge of her body, pursuing her own ends, I don't discount the Brainiac influence. I think, if after the Brainiac influence has left Chloe, she kills again, then, yes, she's a killer. But as it stands now, when Brainiac leaves her, I don't personally hold her accountable for the murder in my mind because, though she was pursuing her own goals.

I understand what you're saying. Although I myself think it was 100% Brainiac, I think it can definitely be logically argued that it wasn't 100% Brainiac, and there is a grey area. However, what I'm irrationally annoyed by the other extreme. IMO, I don't think it can be argued AT ALL that it was 100% Chloe.


I can't say with certainty that the decision to kill is one she'd have made without Brainiac's influence upon her. Brainiac influenced her, IMO, pushing her over the line she might otherwise not have crossed. (I cannot say that she definitely WOULDN'T have crossed it under any circumstances under her own power and without any outside influence - it's something that's not really come up, and people's limits cannot be determined until they've been fully tested. It might take a LOT, but I think pretty much anyone can be driven to murder under the right circumstances - and a necessary and immediate need to protect of one's self and others from grave harm or death does often drive people to acts they wouldn't otherwise commit. It's not a judgment call on her as a character.) Thus, I can't hold her accountable for the murder.
I can see this POV-- especially since Clark himself has admitted to being close to killing someone in extreme moments of emotion. Even though I feel like Chloe would never kill, she has not been tested nor has she had the means, as Clark has.


I will say, however, that I would not be surprised if she did feel guilty for what she did, even if she recognized that it wasn't entirely her who did it. But, then again, it was clear with Lana that there was no part of her that was in control of her - everything, including her body, her motives, etc., was clearly controlled by Isobel when she was possessed because she often acted against Lana's own desires when Isobel acted. And yet I think that it would have been perfectly natural if even Lana would have felt guilty for what Isobel did in her own body. It may not be rational, and neither Chloe nor Lana may be deserving of blame for their actions, IMO. But I do think it would be within human nature to feel guilty for what you did - even while you weren't in control of your body - because it's just hard to dissociate from yourself in that fashion. So while I don't think Chloe is deserving of blame for her actions at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if she felt she carried some guilt initially for them because I imagine it would be just plain hard to rationalize to yourself that you killed someone but weren't really in control of your actions when you did..

This is an excellent point and I totally agree. I expect that Chloe will eventually realize that she's been doing things not of her control, but of course still feel guilty. We've seen Clark mired in guilt about things that he really didn't have control over. But, I fear that her feeling guilt implies that she was in control. :\

IMO, I don't think protecting Clark's secret was the point of the murder, I think it was because Sebastian was working for Tess and Tess isn't on the need-to-know list. If that was the motive, some base instinct to protect Clark at all costs, why hasn't Chloe checked into Belle Reve and started murdering all the freaks in there who know Clark is Super?

[Arwenstar]

That was a dangerous decision for her to make and that has what ultimately led her to where she is now, IMO.

That's ridiculous; Chloe would use any power to help people. Clark hated, absolutely hated, Chloe using her healing powers because it could kill her. BUT she did so anyway, and if she hadn't, then Lois would have died.

[myankskent]

When has killing people been one of Chloe's goals?


That hasn't but keeping Clark's secret has. She's using her new powers in order to do that, which is the problem.



Maybe so bu that does not make her evil.

No, but it does put her at fault. It makes her no different than what Lana did last year after she got Clark's powers, IMO.

[Firebunny]

If that's the case, I still go back to the beginning of the season when Clark warned Chloe about these powers. At that point, I believe that Chloe still had a choice to try and get rid of the powers or avoid using them but she decided to treat them as a gift and told Clark not to worry, that she would just see what happens. That was a dangerous decision for her to make and that has what ultimately led her to where she is now, IMO. I think at the beginning of the season was a Chloe influenced Brainiac. She wasn't aware of why she was feeling the way she was feeling, but Brainaic was tweaking her thoughts and emotions so that she wouldn't heed Clark's warnings.

What we saw last night was Chloe controlled by Brainiac.

I don't know if she was conscious in that scene but I'm certain Chloe was not in control. It was all Brainiac.

[Kevin24]

I think that if Chloe had agreed that the powers were a problem, there probably would've been more of a sense of urgency to find ways to get rid of the powers. Clark was ready to do it and Chloe kept telling him to forget about it. Also, getting rid of the powers was no doubt a problem, but Chloe decided to use these powers continuously and IMO, her making the decision to use the powers has potentially made Brainiac stronger inside of her. Just look at Lana last year. The longer she had Clark's power, the worse she got. I'd imagine that as the time Chloe has Brainiac's powers increases, the less human she is.

I agree that Chloe should have been more concerned by the power. She seemed to have enjoyed having the power. Now its biting her in the ass because she didn't try to get rid of it sooner.

[myankskent]

That's ridiculous; Chloe would use any power to help people. Clark hated, absolutely hated, Chloe using her healing powers because it could kill her. BUT she did so anyway, and if she hadn't, then Lois would have died.

Right, except now she is using the power of an evil supercomputer who has brought death and destruction to countless people, and Chloe is aware of it.

[Arwenstar]

That hasn't but keeping Clark's secret has. She's using her new powers in order to do that, which is the problem.

To a point. She wasn't willing to delete Jimmy's photo of Clark because she believed people needed a hero. If she was that desperate, she would have immediately agreed to Clark's wishes. Even Clark was more panicked than she was.

Chloe has ALWAYS been willing to help him, or help people for that matter. To a certain point. She used her healing powers to save the people she loved--if it hadn't been for her, both Clark and Lois would have been goners. She used Braniac's powers to help people, which probably fed his strength even more, but I doubt she would have used it to kill. That is going against Chloe's nature; she heals people, saves them, and has been an examplar human being (in Clark's eyes). I don't think she has in her to kill people, but Braniac definitely does.

[myankskent]

I think at the beginning of the season was a Chloe influenced Brainiac. She wasn't aware of why she was feeling the way she was feeling, but Brainaic was tweaking her thoughts and emotions so that she wouldn't heed Clark's warnings.


If Brainiac was tweaking her thoughts and emotions, then IMO, that's the same thing as saying that Brainiac was controlling Chloe. I'm not so sure that was the case earlier in the season. I'm still not convinced that it even happened in "Identity".

[Dustmite]

That hasn't but keeping Clark's secret has. She's using her new powers in order to do that, which is the problem.

And I don't think she is. I don't believe for one nanosecond that Chloe is capable of murder. Am I supposed to believe it's just some random coincidence that Brainiac has infected her and that now she's killing people. As if the two are totally independant of each other. She didn't need a power to kill people. If she had wanted to a knife and a gun would do well enough.


No, but it does put her at fault.

Put her at fault for killing people? No.

[baltazor]

Chloe would never kill someone intentionally. Brainiac is starting to have significant influence on her. It was Chloe with a serious nudge from Brainiac that killed Sebastian.

[Dobson]

Has she had blackouts yet?

[marikology]

I agree that Chloe should have been more concerned by the power. She seemed to have enjoyed having the power. Now its biting her in the ass because she didn't try to get rid of it sooner.

This post made me LOL. :lol: That's a fair opinion. Like every other character, Chloe has made more than one bad decision, and hindsight's always 20/20. But I would reiterate that there really wasn't much she nor Clark could do. Sometimes all there is to do is accept the things you cannot change.

[Kevin24]

Chloe would never kill someone intentionally. Brainiac is starting to have significant influence on her. It was Chloe with a serious nudge from Brainiac that killed Sebastian.

Exactly!

[dru-zod2501]

No she wasn't. She was confused at the end because she had no idea what just happened. She knew why she came to the hospital, and that was to see if Sebastian knew Clark's secret, but that's all, she didn't know why she was walking away. It's that or she had no idea why she was in the hospital in the first place and just wanted to leave. We'll find out in the next couple of episodes that she's probably been having short black outs.
see, after she walked out, that was not the face of someone waking up in a strange place; That was the face of someone questioning whether she just did the right thing. The only thing she didn't know was why she thought it was a good idea in the first place

[Forever Lex]

First off, technically Chloe/Brainiac didn't kill Sebastian, his very own MF power killed him. (But that's a story for another time.)

Anywho. Brainiac is an alien super computer. Meaning he is entity solely designed to harbor and process data. He effectively harbors and processes an obsene amount of data obviously from the unknown and known galaxies. Right? Right!

Sebastian's power enables him to steal (debatable) memories. But we've seen that he's able to peak into people's minds and scan their memories.

Proof it was not Chloe and indeed unequivocally Brainiac.

Sebastian didn't get any memories from Chloe. Sebastian only got data streams. Information which overloaded, short circuited his brain. If it was Chloe, even a little bit, wouldn't he have seen some or even a glimpse of her memories at least enough to know what is happening to him? But he didn't. It was an automatic download of information.

Not Chloe. All Brainiac.

Also, I am reading a lot about Chloe's new power. Or Brainiac's power. This from Wiki.
Brainiac's advanced mental powers have shown him capable of possessing others, transferring his consciousness, creating and manipulating computer systems, and exerting some control over time and space.

He is possessing Chloe. Tranferring his consciousness to Chloe and manipulating her brain. As stated in Identity the human mind is like a computer.

The math is working for me....

It makes the most sense... This PLUS the "previously on Smallville" clips showing Brainiac, AND the line Brainiac used when he was *infecting* Chloe ("What are you?!") Chloe's healing powers combined with Brainiac's infection is a wicked combination. We get Chloe's compassion mixed with Brainiac's crazy-computerness, and this is what we get: A Chloe who is, in essence CHLOE, but a demon-like presence of Brainiac that rears it's ugly head when the opportunity presents itself.

Whether or not Chloe was actually IN CONTROL while killing Sebastian is the whole point - it's like she's a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde character. WHICH character was in control? Compassionate Chloe, or Evil Brainiac?

And just for funzies - we have seen the youtube clip... now here's the infamous lines - READ CAREFULLY!

Chloe: "The human mind is simply a highly sophisticated computer; download too much information, and it crashes. And all the data is lost."

Sebastian: "What's that supposed to mean?"

Chloe: "Here - let me show you."

Maybe it's just me (& a few others) but I DEFINITELY SEE BRAINIAC in those lines!!!

And as Chloe left the hospital room, her eyes were rapidly blinking. Then she looked a little scared; a little confused; a little sad.... but she KNEW what she'd done... so... no black out.

And I think that Chloe might possibly be a foe for Clark this season. After all, what would be better than Clark having to fight & possibly kill his BEST friend? - when he was fighting Lex, they were no longer friends. This would be WAY different.

Of course, like everyone else, this is my opinion, & the Chloe Foe idea is JM2C worth! :D

[Krypton935]

Yeah she was in control! that was a wicked scene though! me and my mom were like Holy Krypton! Chloe just killed that guy. BUt I think it was because of her love for clark and there was no way to get him to forget.

[Kevin24]

This post made me LOL. :lol: That's a fair opinion. Like every other character, Chloe has made more than one bad decision, and hindsight's always 20/20. But I would reiterate that there really wasn't much she nor Clark could do. Sometimes all there is to do is accept the things you cannot change.

That's true there wasn't really much they could have done at that point.

It's always nice to make someone laugh though :D

[myankskent]

And I don't think she is. I don't believe for one nanosecond that Chloe is capable of murder.


She's not. She's only capable of murder if she is given Brainiac's power, IMO.




Put her at fault for killing people? No.


No, not for killing people. But IMO, it does put her at fault for not realizing that a power given to her by an evil supercomputer can't possibly bring anything pleasant to the world. I'd give Chloe a pass on this if it's revealed that Brainiac was making her do all of this right from the start.

[AndrewVDk]

People need to realize that this was not some innocent person on the street!
This guy was a serial killer, and he tried to kill Lois in this episode, plus he discovered
Clark's secret! So even if that was Chloe who killed him(witch it wasn't, it was Brainiac)
the guy got what he deserved, end of story! Still, that was Brainiac out there!

[Kevin24]

The math is working for me....

It makes the most sense... This PLUS the "previously on Smallville" clips showing Brainiac, AND the line Brainiac used when he was *infecting* Chloe ("What are you?!") Chloe's healing powers combined with Brainiac's infection is a wicked combination. We get Chloe's compassion mixed with Brainiac's crazy-computerness, and this is what we get: A Chloe who is, in essence CHLOE, but a demon-like presence of Brainiac that rears it's ugly head when the opportunity presents itself.

Whether or not Chloe was actually IN CONTROL while killing Sebastian is the whole point - it's like she's a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde character. WHICH character was in control? Compassionate Chloe, or Evil Brainiac?

And just for funzies - we have seen the youtube clip... now here's the infamous lines - READ CAREFULLY!

Chloe: "The human mind is simply a highly sophisticated computer; download too much information, and it crashes. And all the data is lost."

Sebastian: "What's that supposed to mean?"

Chloe: "Here - let me show you."

Maybe it's just me (& a few others) but I DEFINITELY SEE BRAINIAC in those lines!!!

And as Chloe left the hospital room, her eyes were rapidly blinking. Then she looked a little scared; a little confused; a little sad.... but she KNEW what she'd done... so... no black out.

And I think that Chloe might possibly be a foe for Clark this season. After all, what would be better than Clark having to fight & possibly kill his BEST friend? - when he was fighting Lex, they were no longer friends. This would be WAY different.

Of course, like everyone else, this is my opinion, & the Chloe Foe idea is JM2C worth! :D

What if Chloe really just wanted to show him what she meant but then it went to far and that's why she was so freaked out afterwards because it was an accident?:confused:

[Timester]

This is very simple, Chloe's morality and ethics are being twisted by the overdrive on her mind. Chloe WAS on control, but this is not the same old Chloe anymore.

Remember Wrath?

[Dustmite]

People need to realize that this was not some innocent person on the street!
This guy was a serial killer, and he tried to kill Lois in this episode, plus he discovered
Clark's secret! So even if that was Chloe who killed him(witch it wasn't, it was Brainiac)
the guy got what he deserved, end of story! Still, that was Brainiac out there!

I understand what you're saying. You think it was Brainiac and not Chloe but you don't think Chloe should be considred evil even if it was her. But Milos, it would be havoc if everyone dispensed their own form of justice and doled out punishments that they deemed fit. That's what the law is for.

[Jade4813]

Although you draw some pretty good similarities between LOTR and Braniac, Jade, we have to remember that it stems from the fact that Braniac is essentially a parasite that's using Chloe as a host. That is how I see it. Parasites normally influence their hosts' behavior in accordance to their own needs. The ring was a temptation of power that appealed to man's greedy nature.

True, but there's also just way TOO MUCH of Chloe around (in the show) for me to ever buy that Chloe's body is just the host and Brianiac is the actor - like a Goa-uld or like with Isobel. In those cases, it was very clear that the invader was a parasite completely taking over the hosts' bodies, and the hosts were in no way in control of themselves.

I watch Smallville and I DON'T see Brainiac where Chloe used to be. There is still plenty of "Chloe" being presented. In her scenes with Clark, it's obvious she genuinely cares about Clark, and I buy it (we can debate "how much" or "in what way" in another thread, the point is that it's clear that she cares for him deeply). I can't buy that Brainiac is SO good at pretending that he can fake Chloe's level of caring for Clark. I think that, while I often disagree on the TYPE of love Chloe has for Clark, she cares for him enough that it would be impossible for someone to fake it. (And, if you think about it, a number of people agree, given that so many were saying that Chloe twigged onto the fact that Clark was Bizarro because he couldn't entirely pretend Clark's caring for her, if that makes sense.)

It's a bunch of little things that make me see Chloe on the screen. Things like her scenes with Clark, where it's clear she cares for him and it's not just an act. (I'll leave Chimmy out of this contentious debate.) I watch AM's scenes and I say, "That's Chloe...maybe not entirely Chloe, but there's definitely PLENTY of Chloe in there."

Even in the scene in the hospital. Chloe acted in a way that made me believe Brainiac was influencing her, true. But, again, her motives were entirely Chloeish to me. Chloe is incredibly protective of Clark and his secret - and she acted to protect that secret. At the end, she seemed conflicted and a bit concerned. As if she recognized that there was something odd going on but she wasn't completely surprised to find herself where she was. She'd acted, seemingly by her own choice, but there was still a part of her that maybe felt that there had been something strange about the action she herself had taken.

I would believe that Brainiac had momentarily taken over her body 100% if the scene had played out different. If she had, as others have said, stopped and shaken her head, looking around her in wonder as she tried to figure out what the hell was going on and where she was. Then, noticing the commotion, she moves towards it a bit, trying to figure out what was going on. Seeing that the doctors were working on a guy, trying to revive him, something inside her causes her to panic and run away. Then I'd say, "EUREKA! Brainiac was entirely in control back then!"

But that's not what happened. She seemed conflicted, but not surprised. And, think about it. If you went to bed tonight and woke up tomorrow at your friend's house, without a single memory as to how you'd gotten there, wouldn't you take a moment to look around yourself in complete and utter "what the hell happened to me?" confusion? Trust me; this happened to me once. I took a sleeping pill and apparently went sleepwalking until my friend found me and took me to her house. When I woke up, it took several seconds for me to process that I wasn't where I remembered being when last I was conscious. It freaked me out, and I daresay it would freak out anyone for a moment.

She didn't seem so confused by the situation that it seemed like she suddenly "awoke" to find herself in a place without any memory of how she'd gotten there or why (for a good example of this happening, watch the transition from "Edward" to...er..."Henry" in "My Own Worst Enemy." Henry wakes up quite frequently to find himself in a place where Edward had taken him, and he always has to take a few moments to be like, "Where am I? Why? What's going on? What the hell?" And he even knows that there's another half to him taking over him every once and a while - something Chloe is completely ignorant of, if that's what's happening to her). She looked conflicted, not completely bewildered. And I don't for a second think it's because AM isn't a good enough actress to anything they asked of her off.

Thus, I stand firm by my contention that Brainiac is influencing Chloe's behavior, not controlling it.

[ChlarkCandy]

Again, I really don't see the big debate.

THERE IS A GENOCIDAL ALIEN AI with a penchant for ANARCHY IN HER BRAIN!!!

If our brains essentially governs who we are. Dictates our choices and discernment of right and wrong. Isn't it a reasonably safe to deduce that since Chloe's brain has been corrupted in any compacity that the decision to commit murder was not her own?

Think of it as a computer and a computer virus. Brainiac is essentially eating away her programming, infiltrating and destroying her harddrive, pulling out random commands and deleting files.

Not Chloe. All Brainiac.

[All about Clark]

What if Chloe really just wanted to show him what she meant but then it went to far and that's why she was so freaked out afterwards because it was an accident?:confused:

This is a good point. I don't think Chloe went in there knowing she would actually kill Sebastian. I think she just wanted to overload him as to not remember his memories, not that it would be such a disruption to his entire being. However, from that standpoint, if she felt his was making him brain dead, that's pretty much the same thing as really dead, isn't it.

[Dustmite]

Again, I really don't see the big debate.

THERE IS A GENOCIDAL ALIEN AI with a penchant for ANARCHY IN HER BRAIN!!!

If our brains essentially governs who we are. Dictates our choices and discernment of right and wrong. Isn't it a reasonably safe to deduce that since Chloe's brain has been corrupted in any compacity that the decision to commit murder was not her own?

Think of it as a computer and a computer virus. Brainiac is essentially eating away her programming, infiltrating and destroying her harddrive, pulling out random commands and deleting files.


Not Chloe. All Brainiac.

WORD!

And argueing that Chloe would do anything to protect Clark's secret is like saying that she would pick up a knife and stab somebody to death or pick up a gun and blow someone's brains out. Chloe is not capable of murder. Brainic is.

[All about Clark]

What if Chloe really just wanted to show him what she meant but then it went to far and that's why she was so freaked out afterwards because it was an accident?:confused:

This is a good point. I don't think Chloe went in there knowing she would actually kill Sebastian. I think she just wanted to overload him as to not remember his memories, not that it would be such a disruption to his entire being. However, from that standpoint, if she felt she was making him brain dead, that's pretty much the same thing as really dead, isn't it.

[Timester]

Again, I really don't see the big debate.

THERE IS A GENOCIDAL ALIEN AI with a penchant for ANARCHY IN HER BRAIN!!!

If our brains essentially governs who we are. Dictates our choices and discernment of right and wrong. Isn't it a reasonably safe to deduce that since Chloe's brain has been corrupted in any compacity that the decision to commit murder was not her own?

Think of it as a computer and a computer virus. Brainiac is essentially eating away her programming, infiltrating and destroying her harddrive, pulling out random commands and deleting files.

You are right.


Let's also remember that before Odyssey, Brainiac had 4 uninterrupted weeks to study and manipulate and tweak and nudge her mind. 4 WEEKS to manipulate her. Who knows how many tests she was subjected to, in which Brainiac was only feeding and growing stronger. IMO, by the time Clark rescued Chloe it was already too late. The virus had already taken root.

Not Chloe. All Brainiac.

And you are wrong. You can't have both. Chloe can't be corrupted AND Brainiac at the same time.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


Chloe is not capable of murder. Brainic is.

Chloe WAS not capable of murder. Now she clearly is, corrupted by Brainiac. It's called character progression.

[Jade4813]

I understand what you're saying. Although I myself think it was 100% Brainiac, I think it can definitely be logically argued that it wasn't 100% Brainiac, and there is a grey area. However, what I'm irrationally annoyed by the other extreme. IMO, I don't think it can be argued AT ALL that it was 100% Chloe.

:lol: I don't think it's irrational, trust me. I'm a Smallville fan who likes Lois on the show. I see plenty of unfair arguments condoning sticking Lois up on a pyre and burn her at the stake, coming from people who seem willing to condemn her behavior 100% without extending the least consideration for the situation at hand, just because they don't like her character (or because they prefer another character to hers).

I don't think it's irrational to get annoyed by that at all.


I can see this POV-- especially since Clark himself has admitted to being close to killing someone in extreme moments of emotion. Even though I feel like Chloe would never kill, she has not been tested nor has she had the means, as Clark has.

Yeah, it's one of those things. It's not a judgment call for me, as I said. I don't think it makes her a bad person. I'm a girl who cries at nature videos when a shark eats a seal because I feel bad for the poor seal. I feel guilty when I kill spiders so I generally try to ignore them. And I can't stand to go fishing - even on a catch and release basis - because my heart breaks because I can't help but think how much it must hurt to have that hook in the poor fish's mouth.

But I have a 6 year old niece, and I swear to god, if I ever thought her life was in danger - or if I thought someone was attacking her sexually or otherwise - I'd kill them with my bare hands if I had to.

Like I said, it's not a judgment call. I consider myself to be a good person. But I recognize that there are things worth crossing that uncrossable line for. Would I kill on my own behalf...? That I'm not so sure about. I'm not entirely certain I could, if I knew that's what I was doing. But if my baby girl's life was in danger, I have no doubt that - even knowing that my actions would cause the person's death - I'd do what I had to do to keep her safe. I think Chloe likely has a line like that, as well. But, then again, I think 99% of people in general do. Like I said, it might take a LOT. But I think just about anyone has something they find they'd kill for.


This is an excellent point and I totally agree. I expect that Chloe will eventually realize that she's been doing things not of her control, but of course still feel guilty. We've seen Clark mired in guilt about things that he really didn't have control over. But, I fear that her feeling guilt implies that she was in control. :\

IMO, I don't think protecting Clark's secret was the point of the murder, I think it was because Sebastian was working for Tess and Tess isn't on the need-to-know list. If that was the motive, some base instinct to protect Clark at all costs, why hasn't Chloe checked into Belle Reve and started murdering all the freaks in there who know Clark is Super?

I agree. I would hate for Chloe to feel guilt, but I recognize that people carry guilt for all sorts of things they shouldn't. My brother was a Marine, and his commander told him to sit out a helicopter mission one day. The rest of his platoon went up in the helicopter, the helicopter was shot down, and everyone died. My brother feels guilty for not dying with them. Does it make sense? Not rationally, no. Does he deserve the blame? He didn't do anything wrong; he didn't kill those men, and he didn't ask to be left behind. But he feels guilty for living when others died. People are just like that.

As for Sebastian...well, I do think that these things will be clearer in future episodes, but I don't see the disparity here. The people in Belle Reeve could prove to be a threat, sure. But they've known his secret for a while now and never done anything about it, so if they are a threat, they're not an immediate one. Sebastian was. He made it clear that he knew Clark's secret and that he didn't really have a qualm against making that information public knowledge. The Belle Reeve inmates could or might be a threat, but until they actually start giving a cause for worry, they're not high up on the priorities list for now. Sebastian was a definite and immediate threat to Clark's secret.

And, yes, Tess not being on the need to know list is just as valid a motive for Chloe. Chloe's smart; if she knew or suspected Sebastian worked for Tess, she would figure that the first person Sebastian would tell would be Tess. And Tess would be more predisposed to believing him than not, because she knew him. And of all the people to know the secret, Tess seems to be a dangerous one - her motives may not be entirely clear, but the fact she clearly aligns herself with Lex makes her at the very least suspect. A random inmate from Belle Reeve wouldn't be likely to call Tess but, if they did, their revelation that Clark has powers wouldn't be likely to be taken at face value. Sebastian's, on the other hand...given that Tess hired him to find out information for her...? His information would very likely be deemed more trustworthy.

How much is Chloe and how much is Brainiac is something I daresay we'll debate for a while now, but I still firmly believe that the motive for the murder was Chloe's, even if the decision to commit the murder wasn't entirely.

[ms.c.]

That wasn't Chloe at all. Chloe doesn't talk like that. She doesn' t make those expressions. Her voice, her eyes, her tone, it was all Brainiac.

Chloe would not murder anyone. She likely has no idea what is going on. The obvious explanation is that Brainiac is taking over her brain and mind for short periods of time and erasing Chloe's memory of it. That whole business about the human mind basically being like a computer was about Brainiac and how it is taking over Chloe's mind. The only reason Chloe isn't still in a coma is because she has her healing ability which has been regenerating whatever damage Brainiac has done to her.

Everyone who theorizes otherwise is going to feel really foolish when it is all explained. Allison Mack did a great job nailing Brainiac's attitude, carriage, tone and mannerisms. She was totally different than regular Chloe. I don't get how anyone is voting otherwise unless something else is clouding the way they saw that scene because Allison Mack was brilliant in it.

[Jade4813]

see, after she walked out, that was not the face of someone waking up in a strange place; That was the face of someone questioning whether she just did the right thing. The only thing she didn't know was why she thought it was a good idea in the first place

I think this is another of those rare moments where we agree completely, dru-zod! ;)

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----


I don't get how anyone is voting otherwise unless something else is clouding the way they saw that scene because Allison Mack was brilliant in it.

Er...maybe because I don't think it makes sense for Brainiac to want to protect Clark but I think it makes total sense for Chloe to do so because she cares about him?

[Timester]

That wasn't Chloe at all. Chloe doesn't talk like that. She doesn' t make those expressions. Her voice, her eyes, her tone, it was all Brainiac.

Chloe DIDN'T talked like that. She DIDN'T made those expressions. Now she does.

Is the concept of corruption that hard to grasp?

[Dobson]

I saw it as the Chloe part protecting the secret, Brainiac doing the killing. She has become an amalgamation of both, with neither having full control, yet.

[ChlarkCandy]

[quote=Timester;4121169]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by ChlarkCandy http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4121157#post4121157)
Let's also remember that before Odyssey, Brainiac had 4 uninterrupted weeks to study and manipulate and tweak and nudge her mind. 4 WEEKS to manipulate her. Who knows how many tests she was subjected to, in which Brainiac was only feeding and growing stronger. IMO, by the time Clark rescued Chloe it was already too late. The virus had already taken root.

Not Chloe. All Brainiac.
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And you are wrong. You can't have both. Chloe can't be corrupted AND Brainiac at the same time.



Let me explain what I mean further. It is my belief that in the beginning, Brainiac was merely nudging Chloe. Not to powerful, but enough that she wouldn't question her to the left reasoning. I think he was being subtlely suggestive at first.

Scenerio:
Chloe in her mind: Clark will come. Jimmy gave Clark the message. Clark will come, he'll rescue me. I just have to be patient and wait. He's never let me down before. He'll come.

Brainiac's subtle nudge: But then again, he's never left me for so long. It's already been a week.

Chloe: I can't give up on him. He'll be here, I just have to wait. Anyday now, Clark will show.
Brainiac: 2 weeks and no Clark. He's probably forgotten about me. Probably in domestic bliss with the Lang.

Chloe: No Clark will never abandon me. He'll come. I know it. He wouldn't leave me, he cares about me.
Brainiac: You know who cares about me. Jimmy. Jimmy's probably waiting for me. 3 weeks and no word, all because Clark's forgotten and left me to rot.

Chloe: Clark's probably not coming. But I can't give up hope, if I give up hope then...
Brainiac: Maybe I'm expendable to him, maybe...

Enter JLA capture and Clark finally busting in.

Chloe: I've been waiting for you.

This is how I percieve it, in the beginning. I think Brainiac has had to the time to subtlely suggest and rearrange her thinking, to where Chloe couldn't discern the difference in her own thoughts at first. But he's been steadily growing stonger, especially with the use of the Isis awesome state of the art servers. Until his influence, his control is not so subtle and more blantant.

Well that's how I see it in the beginning. And I think coupled with her possibly lossing time, stealing the crystal unawares that Brainiac has moments of complete control... possibly while she's sleep. Maybe even while she's awake. But either way her mind is no longer only operated by the adminstrator. Brainiac is in there and wreaking havoc.

[kris10]

no b/c the voices were fading out like something else was fading inside of her meaning brainiac inside of her then poof! Brainiac doesnt need motive....hes not just a computer he is evil so there doesnt have to be a motive....but there could be some motive that we dont know as to why he was killed but based on chloe outside of that room. No she was blinking ALOT....meaning possibly waking up.....she looked disorientated..like wtf am i doing here

[Kevin24]

This is a good point. I don't think Chloe went in there knowing she would actually kill Sebastian. I think she just wanted to overload him as to not remember his memories, not that it would be such a disruption to his entire being. However, from that standpoint, if she felt she was making him brain dead, that's pretty much the same thing as really dead, isn't it.

Yeah I think it is since he wouldn't be able to do anything else after that. He would be a vegetable.

I am now starting to think that maybe she really didn't mean to kill him but then again the pictures so her face emotionless when she was downloading her information into him.

Is it the power and her new found knowledge that is influencing her? or is it really Brainiac who is the one trying to pull the strings?

I am leaning towards the power that is doing the evil like it does with Meteor freaks!

[Ayanne]

That wasn't Chloe at all. Chloe doesn't talk like that. She doesn' t make those expressions. Her voice, her eyes, her tone, it was all Brainiac.

Chloe would not murder anyone. She likely has no idea what is going on. The obvious explanation is that Brainiac is taking over her brain and mind for short periods of time and erasing Chloe's memory of it. That whole business about the human mind basically being like a computer was about Brainiac and how it is taking over Chloe's mind. The only reason Chloe isn't still in a coma is because she has her healing ability which has been regenerating whatever damage Brainiac has done to her.

Everyone who theorizes otherwise is going to feel really foolish when it is all explained. Allison Mack did a great job nailing Brainiac's attitude, carriage, tone and mannerisms. She was totally different than regular Chloe. I don't get how anyone is voting otherwise unless something else is clouding the way they saw that scene because Allison Mack was brilliant in it.

Allison was brilliant & chilling portraying Brainiac taking control of Chloe.

It's the same principle as that of Dissociative identity disorder which is characterized by the presence of two or more distinct or split identities or personality states that continually have power over the person's behavior. . As each personality reveals itself and control's the individuals' behavior and thoughts, it's called "switching."

[Serynarpc]

As hard as it is to say, I believe that Chloe was the one in control when she caused data failure in the killer. We saw her frustration when she tried to google something at Isis when Chloe was in control, so we know that Chloe has that ability at her fingertips.

I'd hate to think of a hardcore evil Chloe- maybe she's just doing what she needs to protect her friend.

[wolverine316]

Chloe was definitely in control. She is a murderer. Brainiac only stripped away her morality.

[ms.c.]

I don't think it makes sense for Brainiac to want to protect Clark but I think it makes total sense for Chloe to do so because she cares about him?


Brainiac wasn't protecting Clark. He was eliminating an obstacle to his plan. Brainiac didn't want the FOTW to share his info with Tess or any one else because Brainiac needs Clark. He has always needed Clark to do something. The entire thrust of every Brainiac plotline has begun with Brainiac needs Clark to do something. Last season, Brainiac used Kara instead of Clark, but Brainiac's plans always involve the Els.

As for Chloe protecting Clark, Chloe would have gone to Clark if she suspected the FOTW knew about his secret. She would have let Clark choose how to handle it which is what real Chloe told Clark in the begining of the same episode - that she has always gone with his wishes regarding how to handle his secret. That was the reminder to the audience that the person in the end wasn't Chloe.

This is like Bizarro Clark. They rely on the audience knowing these characters well enough to pick up that they are not the ones doing these things. Allison Mack changed everything about how she acted so it was clear that she wasn't Chloe. I don't see how people can be clouded to that.

[Jade4813]

no b/c the voices were fading out like something else was fading inside of her meaning brainiac inside of her then poof! Brainiac doesnt need motive....hes not just a computer he is evil so there doesnt have to be a motive....but there could be some motive that we dont know as to why he was killed but based on chloe outside of that room. No she was blinking ALOT....meaning possibly waking up.....she looked disorientated..like wtf am i doing here

But this doesn't make sense either. No, Brainiac doesn't need a motive to kill someone, as he's evil, but Chloe waited until she made sure there was a motive there before killing Sebastian. She didn't just walk into the room, grab his hand, watch him die, and then smile smugly to herself and walk out. She verified first that he was a threat before killing him.

Brainiac doesn't need a motive to kill - though he does tend to have them - but he doesn't need a motive to let someone live, either. He certainly isn't dictated by conscience, so why not just kill Sebastian without saying a word to him? If he's doing it just for kicks. And if he's NOT doing it for kicks, that means that he's doing it because he has a reason to do it. And a reason to kill someone is a motive to kill someone. Thus, Brainiac had a motive and we're back where we began.

----- Added 7 Minutes later -----


Brainiac wasn't protecting Clark. He was eliminating an obstacle to his plan. Brainiac didn't want the FOTW to share his info with Tess or any one else because Brainiac needs Clark. He has always needed Clark to do something. The entire thrust of every Brainiac plotline has begun with Brainiac needs Clark to do something. Last season, Brainiac used Kara instead of Clark, but Brainiac's plans always involve the Els.

As for Chloe protecting Clark, Chloe would have gone to Clark if she suspected the FOTW knew about his secret. She would have let Clark choose how to handle it which is what real Chloe told Clark in the begining of the same episode - that she has always gone with his wishes regarding how to handle his secret. That was the reminder to the audience that the person in the end wasn't Chloe.

Again, you're assuming that Chloe's not corrupted. An uncorrupted Chloe would go to Clark, sure. A corrupted Chloe, however...? Chloe's acted before for what she thinks would be best for Clark. When Lionel came to her and told her he had important information for Clark, she didn't call Clark first and ask if he wanted to know it. She figured she knew him well enough to know the answer to the question.

Here, Chloe was wanting to protect Clark. An uncorrupted Chloe might have gone to Clark to warn him because she would have been trying to find a way to deal with the situation, given that she's not a murderer and wouldn't immediately know another solution to the problem.

A Chloe corrupted by Brainiac, however...? Has a dilemma; Clark is in danger. Has been corrupted to think that the line she normally would observe against killing is actually okay to cross. Crosses it.

When it comes to Brainiac just wanting to get rid of an obstacle...I point to my previous post. Why wait to know that Sebastian knows Clark's secret before eliminating him? Even IF Sebastian didn't know Clark's secret, he would pose a danger to Brainiac's plan, whatever it was. Chloeiac clearly knew Sebastian's power was and your theory of the situation involves him having to know that Sebastian worked for Tess as well.

Even if Sebastian didn't know Clark's secret now, it wouldn't be that far of a reach to say that he might figure it out in future...I'm sure Brainiac is smart enough to know that there's every chance Tess is curious about Clark. Thus, in the future, Tess could tell Sebastian to find out about Clark, Sebastian would touch him, and they'd be in the same situation.

So why bother to find out now if Sebastian knows anything? Why not just eliminate the threat, make sure that a logical future threat never comes to pass? Why not just walk in and take Sebastian's hand to make sure that Sebastian could never muck around with Brainiac's plans.

But no...Sebastian wasn't killed right away. The motive was verified first, to make sure that Sebastian was an actual immediate threat to Clark. And then Chloeiac acted.

[TWNik]

Brainiac wasn't protecting Clark. He was eliminating an obstacle to his plan. Brainiac didn't want the FOTW to share his info with Tess or any one else because Brainiac needs Clark. He has always needed Clark to do something. The entire thrust of every Brainiac plotline has begun with Brainiac needs Clark to do something. Last season, Brainiac used Kara instead of Clark, but Brainiac's plans always involve the Els.

As for Chloe protecting Clark, Chloe would have gone to Clark if she suspected the FOTW knew about his secret. She would have let Clark choose how to handle it which is what real Chloe told Clark in the begining of the same episode - that she has always gone with his wishes regarding how to handle his secret. That was the reminder to the audience that the person in the end wasn't Chloe.

This is like Bizarro Clark. They rely on the audience knowing these characters well enough to pick up that they are not the ones doing these things. Allison Mack changed everything about how she acted so it was clear that she wasn't Chloe. I don't see how people can be clouded to that.

It does not get any clearer than this post. Brainiac has his own AGENDA, just as when he took on Kara's appearance last season.

Like you, I do not see how anyone can ignore those facts. Chloe is NOT a killer or Evil, she was being controlled by Brainiac.


Chloe corrupted by Brainiac

Except there is no "corruption", - nowhere has that been said or insinuated by ANYONE on or with the show. What has been said is Chloe is being TAKEN OVER by Brainiac, who REVEALED that fact last night.

[Jade4813]

Except there is no "corruption", - nowhere has that been said or insinuated by ANYONE on or with the show. What has been said is Chloe is being TAKEN OVER by Brainiac, who REVEALED that fact last night.

Which could be read as:


Chloe is being TAKEN OVER by Brainiac, who REVEALED that fact last night.

I'm a law student. Words are important. And by saying she's being taken over (as opposed to, "Chloe has been taken over by Brainiac"), it just as easily implies it's a gradual process. Thus, Chloe will eventually "be" Braniac after he fully corrupts her and takes her over.

A theory that's supported, incidentally, by the fact that Chloe is, at a number of points in the first several episodes (and this one), acting like Chloe and not like Brainiac. Unless you think that it's possible to fake Chloe's closeness and caring for Clark? I generally think their caring for each other is deep enough that it's not easily faked and, even if someone tried to fake it, Clark would still feel like there was something off between him and Chloe and be alarmed. Particularly given that he knows Brainiac is in her head and is undoubtedly on guard as he's worried about her.

[Hoshi_Reed]

She is aware of what is going on though. He might take over but she must be conscience during it because her reaction afterwards wasn't one of confusion but one of remorse and conflict.

I remember someone mentioning in this thread that in Toxic there was proof that Chloe had blackouts of some sorts? Does anyone know about this? Did I miss something during Toxic?
The Toxic reference is when Chloe walks into Isis and she notices the computer room is open. She said she thought she closed them. It was a subtle hint she wasn't herself all the way back then. TPTB are gradually showing us that she is losing a battle within. It shows they are good writers. I mean do you need the writers to "hang a lantern" on everything?



It was Chloe by law. Isnt this similar to what happened to Lana in season 4. People were quick to ridicule Lana then..whats so different now?
It was Chloe alright.

There was no sign of brainiac throughout this episode, so I say Chloe is well aware of what she has done. You can see how sad she was when she left. She should hand herself in to police or tell someone :lol:

So Clark is guilty of attempted murder? No one has said Clark or Lana was guilty when they tried to kill Chloe in Delete. They both were being controlled by the e-mail send by Molly. It is the SAME situation.

[melk]

Well... you could see that during, she had absolutly no proplem with it. But as she got out, she was either thinking: Oh crap i did it again! or what have i just done? Why a,m i walking away??? We may, i think, see in later episodes more of the 'blackouts' happen and see that brainac is starting, little by little to take over. In a way though, she isn't fighting brainiac over her. She even told Clark to back off in another episode. :)

[Timester]

So Clark is guilty of attempted murder? No one has said Clark or Lana was guilty when they tried to kill Chloe in Delete. They both were being controlled by the e-mail send by Molly. It is the SAME situation.

Uh, Genevieve's murder?

[melk]

That wasn't Chloe at all. Chloe doesn't talk like that. She doesn' t make those expressions. Her voice, her eyes, her tone, it was all Brainiac.

Chloe would not murder anyone. She likely has no idea what is going on. The obvious explanation is that Brainiac is taking over her brain and mind for short periods of time and erasing Chloe's memory of it. That whole business about the human mind basically being like a computer was about Brainiac and how it is taking over Chloe's mind. The only reason Chloe isn't still in a coma is because she has her healing ability which has been regenerating whatever damage Brainiac has done to her.

Everyone who theorizes otherwise is going to feel really foolish when it is all explained. Allison Mack did a great job nailing Brainiac's attitude, carriage, tone and mannerisms. She was totally different than regular Chloe. I don't get how anyone is voting otherwise unless something else is clouding the way they saw that scene because Allison Mack was brilliant in it.

Her comment about the human brain being just like a computer... Either its her comp. wizz coming out of her/ her serios intelligence or the face that Brainac is a computer. So he is far more likley to make that kind of remark. What do you think??

[Timester]

Except there is no "corruption", - nowhere has that been said or insinuated by ANYONE on or with the show. What has been said is Chloe is being TAKEN OVER by Brainiac, who REVEALED that fact last night.

Wrong, Clark over and over again was concerned about what might be happening with Chloe this season.

What no one said or insinuated is that she IS Brainiac.

[Hoshi_Reed]

And you are wrong. You can't have both. Chloe can't be corrupted AND Brainiac at the same time.
Actually you can have both. If a computer has a Trojan or virus it can slow the computer down or affect other programs even when the computer owner is doing their thing and the program isn't active. But when the programmer actually activates it to take control of the computer, the owner isn't in control at all.
Brainiac can be dormant, and Chloe's actions are only influenced by him (drawn to Davis) and then he takes over briefly and becomes the controller then goes dormant again when needed.

[Sue Denim]

Chloe a killer? It's the Brainiac infection.

Jimmy is supa!reporter
Clark is the Blur
Oliver is the GA

and

Chloe is Brainiac.

The show as called "Identity", and it's not all about Clark.

[Hoshi_Reed]

Uh, Genevieve's murder?
I've never held Lana responsible for her death. Isobel was in control. When Lana was herself she went straight to tell someone.

[Timester]

Actually you can have both. If a computer has a Trojan or virus it can slow the computer down or affect other programs even when the computer owner is doing their thing and the program isn't active. But when the programmer actually activates it to take control of the computer, the owner isn't in control at all.
Brainiac can be dormant, and Chloe's actions are only influenced by him (drawn to Davis) and then he takes over briefly and becomes the controller then goes dormant again when needed.

Doesn't make sense what you just said. A virus/trojan doesn't shut down/reboot itself when it wants, it stays there and corrupts all the programs that you execute until you clean it up. If you compare Brainiac to a virus/trojan, than Chloe can't have blackouts. No, the virus Brainiac idea supports the corruption theory more.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


I've never held Lana responsible for her death. Isobel was in control. When Lana was herself she went straight to tell someone.

You didn't, ALOT of people did. And lets face it, if Chloe or Lana was caught red-handed, you honestly believe that they would not be considered guilty? I mean, try tell to a judge that it was you that killed, it was the alien computer/French witch that did it.

[sailordom]

I admittedly need to watch the episode again, but I didn't think it was a sure-gone conclusion that he died....

But I'm falling in the camp of "influenced by Brainiac." That was definitely Chloe walking away from the hospital room, not Brainiac. Brainiac would not have looked so uncertain and remorseful, and Chloe did not at all look like someone waking up from a blackout episode.

I don't think Chloe's a murderer. But it's also not like she kidnapped a kid off a playground and slaughtered him or is out torturing fluffy kittens -- she eliminated a threat. And it wasn't even a threat to Brainiac, it was a threat to Clark's secret identity and to her cousin's safety, and I just don't see Brainiac caring a whole lot about that.

Being "infected," for lack of a better word, is changing Chloe. She's crossing lines she wouldn't have before, but it's still all her motivations and emotions behind it. I think her exposure to Brainiac has changed the way she thinks, possibly forever -- I don't think she even sees the world in quite the same way any more.

Unlike the various possessions we've seen so far, I don't think Chloe's going to be able to just write this off, because this is, underneath it all, HER. I think she carries some responsibility for her actions, even though I agree that she wouldn't have gone this far without Brainiac's influence. I think Brainiac's influence has provided her with more options, but in the end, it's still Chloe making the choice.

I'm cautiously excited about this. Excited, because this could turn out to a really terrific arc for Chloe and deal with some hard questions. And cautious, because, well, this could so easily (and probably will) turn out to be really bad for Chloe's character.

[LookUpDown]

Chloe hasn't been in completely control since this Brianiac mind invasion started. That was not Chloe in that hospital room, that was Brainiac.

[celita]

To me this chloniac thing is like Sam in Supernatural, he has those powers that came from a demon and he knows it. But is his choice rather he uses those powers that are inside of him or not. Maybe it seems that he hurts no one by using those powers, but he's making a choice and taking a risk and the consecuences of that choice are his.

Right now, we don't know if it's "corrupted Chloe" or "Braniac driving her body" there is where the debate is.

If it's corrupted Chloe,well,it would be her fault, since she knew she was infected and she chose to use those powers like a gift, she would be a murderer, because no matter why you killed someone, you are a killer (in my book of course). It would be like Lana torturing people last year. I don't care if they were bad people, she did wrong.

If it's Braniac driving her body it would be different, she wouldn't be a murderer and she wouldn't even know what the hell happened in there. It would be Like Isobel using Lana's body to kill Genevieve Teague, she wasn't a murderer that time. However, I think that she did wrong by letting Lex and Lionel cover the whole mess and giving Clark the weapon without telling him what happened. Because what would happen to Clark if the cops find that stone in the barn? So, in Chloe's case she wouldn't be a murderer but if she realises about what happened while Braniac was in control and she does nothing and tries to hide the truth like Lana did, she would be just like Lana when Isobel killed Genevieve.

It's different when people is being possesed like "lexod", Lex didn't know what he did while he was Zod, so he wasn't guilty at all.

The same happens with Davis/Doomsday, Davis is not a killer since he doesn't know what the other side of himself did. But when he starts to realize about what happened, if he covers all the mess and does nothing to stop the crimes then he'll be guilty.

[Dustmite]

And lets face it, if Chloe or Lana was caught red-handed, you honestly believe that they would not be considered guilty? I mean, try tell to a judge that it was you that killed, it was the alien computer/French witch that did it.

Maybe they would be considered guilty in a court of law but the fact is that they're NOT guilty.

And argueing semantics isn't going to change anything. Chloe is not a killer. Brainiac is.

[Timester]

And argueing semantics isn't going to change anything. Chloe is not a killer. Brainiac is.

Nope. It's not semantics, it's facts. Chloe KILLED last night. Until we are told that Brainiac did it, it was Chloe. This isn't even a question of fanwanking.

By the way, court of law or not, even if it was Brainiac, Chloe should turn herself up if she has problem with what "she" did. It's the common sense. The same way I was one of the those that defended that Lana should have been arrested for Genevieve's murder.

[thehenry89]

I think choe was in control I just think, power is a very corrupting entity.

[Meteror Freak]

of course she was in control. Just because braniac gave her super smartness, doesn't mean it isn't her. It's changed her and brought out her dark side but it's definately still Chloe.

[Dustmite]

Nope. It's not semantics, it's facts. Chloe KILLED last night. Until we are told that Brainiac did it, it was Chloe. This isn't even a question of fanwanking.

Nope sorry, unless I'm told by the show it was Chloe, it's Brainiac and please don't tell me that my opinion is fanwanking.

[thehenry89]

Nope. It's not semantics, it's facts. Chloe KILLED last night. Until we are told that Brainiac did it, it was Chloe. This isn't even a question of fanwanking.

By the way, court of law or not, even if it was Brainiac, Chloe should turn herself up if she has problem with what "she" did. It's the common sense. The same way I was one of the those that defended that Lana should have been arrested for Genevieve's murder.

ITA. the difference between what chloe did last night, and what lana did in commencment, is that we could clearly see lana being possesed by the spirit of isobelle. Last night chloe was just chloe, we didn' see any shifts in her eyes or personality that would indicate a possesion. and when she walked away, a very human look of guilt passed over her face. brainiac wouldn't have blinked an eye about taking a human life, chloe obviously has remorse for what she felt she had to do.

[lillie_poo_pod]

Nope sorry, unless I'm told by the show it was Chloe, it's Brainiac

Agreed. I honestly can't see how anyone cannot see that Chloe was in no control of this situation. *shrug* But everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

[Timester]

Nope sorry, unless I'm told by the show it was Chloe, it's Brainiac and please don't tell me that my opinion is fanwanking.

Uhm, wasn't that petit blond taking off the glove Chloe? Perhaps I have been watching a different Smallville all these years, but I could swear that girl was Chloe.

As I said, until the show tell us otherwise, who killed Sebastian was Chloe. It was SHOWN to us.

[RedKRules]

I don´t think it was Chloe ...... if she had the EVOL moment before .... then I would agree...... but she has JUST become evollll overnight....... why would she?????? ......

Yesterday was PURE, PRICELESS, COLD Brainiac .....

[Timester]

Agreed. I honestly can't see how anyone cannot see that Chloe was in no control of this situation. *shrug* But everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

Then I must be blinded and missed the guy pointing a gun to her head or Brainiac oozing down from her ears.

It was SHOWN to us that it was Chloe. That's it, period. Nothing more than that, no facts or explanations given. That's why there is a debate in the first place, because NONE of us really knows.

[Dustmite]

Uhm, wasn't that petit blond taking off the glove Chloe? Perhaps I have been watching a different Smallville all these years, but I could swear that girl was Chloe.

As I said, until the show tell us otherwise, who killed Sebastian was Chloe. It was SHOWN to us.

No!

I'm sorry but I'm done debating. You believe Chloe is a cold blooded killer? Fine! Good! I don't and you're not going to change my mind so I think we'll have to leave it there.

[Timester]

Yesterday was PURE, PRICELESS, COLD Brainiac .....

Actually, it was pure cold computer logic. Sebastian was a threat, therefore had to be eliminated.

That's it. Nothing more than that. Corrupted Chloe or not.

[smallviluva]

yea, lat season when lana told clark she would kill to protect his secret, and he was disgusted and disappointed with that way of thinking, so i totally agree, clark would so not be happy if he found out chloe killed for him.

[tariksam]

cold blooded killer?
Nop....she is a killer...she is not cold cause she is conflicted but still a killer

[Sue Denim]

Sebastian isn't Sebastian, he's Wilson.

If Chloe killed anyone, she killed Wilson. I think it was beyond her control. The reason why I think this, is because she was talking about humans and their computerish brains downloading too much information. I can see Chloe refer to her self as a suped-up computer, but the human remark sound something like Milton Fine would say.

Does Chloe ever say human, except when she's telling Clark he's more human than he thinks?

[Timester]

No!

I'm sorry but I'm done debating. You believe Chloe is a cold blooded killer? Fine! Good! I don't and you're not going to change my mind so I think we'll have to leave it there.

:confused:

Can you grasp the concept of "corruption"? This is not the same old Chloe. I even doubt that anyone here is even thinking that normal Chloe would do that. But this is not that Chloe, this is Chloe with an alien entity on her mind.

This thread is about Chloe being in control or not, not if normal Chloe would do it or not.

[Malicieux Toutou]

I think a key will be whether or not she remembers it. When characters have been completely without their faculty of free will on Smallville, like Lana by Isobel or Lex by Zod or everyone in the episode Delete, they never remember anything that happened during the possession. If Chloe remembers what happened, then I'm inclined to hold her at least partially responsible. If she remembers but doesn't turn herself in to the police or Clark, then she is at the very least an accomplice to Brainiac's future misdeeds.

I think Jade's LOTR analogy is very apt. Another one would be Peter Parker in Spiderman 3. Obviously, he was being influenced and corrupted by Venom, but he was still partially responsible for his actions. And just like Peter Parker eventually expelled Venom, I think at some point there will be a battle of wills and Chloe will have to defeat Brainiac.

Free will is hard to quantify. It's not an all or none thing. Scientifically, there is currently no way to even explain the existence of free will.

[RedKRules]

poor Chloe, you were just asking for one more good reason to end up being burned at Stake...... looks like people will not let this go for a while ..... so see yaaaa!!

[Jade4813]

poor Chloe, you were just asking for one more good reason to end up being burned at Stake...... looks like people will not let this go for a while ..... so see yaaaa!!

*snort* Smallville fans do seem to come off as a bloodthirsty lot, don't they? I can't think of a single character that hasn't been viciously attacked by some group or other.

*ponders*

Well, maybe Shelby...

[Dustmite]

:confused:

Can you grasp the concept of "corruption"?

*sigh*

Yes. I like to believe that I'm not completely stupid. It would be nice if I wasn't treated as if I was.


I even doubt that anyone here is even thinking that normal Chloe would do that.

I don't doubt that. I don't doubt it at all. There are people who would be ecstatic if Chloe was to be declared evil.


But this is not that Chloe, this is Chloe with an alien entity on her mind.

This is where you lose me. If Chloe is under the influence of something and therefore is not the same old Chloe, how can she be completely in control of her actions? Here's my take on it, she isn't hence my answer that she wasn't in control.


This thread is about Chloe being in control or not, not if normal Chloe would do it or not.

Again, if she's not normal due to Brainiac's influence then she wasn't in complete control.

And I really am done this time. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[thehenry89]

I think a key will be whether or not she remembers it. When characters have been completely without their faculty of free will on Smallville, like Lana by Isobel or Lex by Zod or everyone in the episode Delete, they never remember anything that happened during the possession. If Chloe remembers what happened, then I'm inclined to hold her at least partially responsible. If she remembers but doesn't turn herself in to the police or Clark, then she is at the very least an accomplice to Brainiac's future misdeeds.

I think Jade's LOTR analogy is very apt. Another one would be Peter Parker in Spiderman 3. Obviously, he was being influenced and corrupted by Venom, but he was still partially responsible for his actions. And just like Peter Parker eventually expelled Venom, I think at some point there will be a battle of wills and Chloe will have to defeat Brainiac.

Free will is hard to quantify. It's not an all or none thing. Scientifically, there is currently no way to even explain the existence of free will.



agreed. the look on her face afterward intimated that she knew what she was doing.

[RedKRules]

*snort* Smallville fans do seem to come off as a bloodthirsty lot, don't they? I can't think of a single character that hasn't been viciously attacked by some group or other.

*ponders*

Well, maybe Shelby...

:\:\ So trueeeeee...

but Shelby is never around too long to make mistakes .... if he did ... he would end up being bashed as well ...... .....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Hoshi_Reed]

Doesn't make sense what you just said. A virus/trojan doesn't shut down/reboot itself when it wants, it stays there and corrupts all the programs that you execute until you clean it up. If you compare Brainiac to a virus/trojan, than Chloe can't have blackouts. No, the virus Brainiac idea supports the corruption theory more.
Well. Lets say: I'm slaving a computer to serv in IRC as a bot. I get the computer preload it with commands that allows it to respond to me whenever. I keep it dormant until I know the owner isn't watching it. I activate the IRC interface so it can DCC a file when ever I want it too and I can turn it off so the computer owner doesn't realize it has been hacked. Because the program is hibernating/standby, it isn't active BUT it does alter the performance of the computer because it is always on the look out for my activation and it requires a few changes to run.
And yes a few Trojans/viri can cause a reboot to ensure complete installation or activation.



You didn't, ALOT of people did. And lets face it, if Chloe or Lana was caught red-handed, you honestly believe that they would not be considered guilty? I mean, try tell to a judge that it was you that killed, it was the alien computer/French witch that did it.
Ethel was executed for espionage but she has always been innocent. It isn't the court or judge or appearance we are arguing but the truth/a fact - was she in control or not.

[zorasuperman]

i think shes not realizing what shes doing shes more in a daze. its like she was there but her mind was clouded. she seemed kind of out of it to me

[Jade4813]

:\:\ So trueeeeee...

but Shelby is never around too make a mistake .... if he did ... he would end up being bashed as well ...... Shelby the KILLER .....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well, he WAS written out of character in that one episode...with the little girl...who could shatter glass (and reading 200 pages of evidence homework today has clearly shattered my brain as I cannot think of the title just now).

The rat.

Shelby sucks. Darn dog. :p ;)

[Dustmite]

Well, he WAS written out of character in that one episode...with the little girl...who could shatter glass (and reading 200 pages of evidence homework today has clearly shattered my brain as I cannot think of the title just now).

The rat.

Shelby sucks. Darn dog. :p ;)

Fragile. Tom's directorial debut.

[Jade4813]

Fragile. Tom's directorial debut.

Thanks! I knew it had something to do with...you know...glass. But my brain just fitzed out on me. All those "Rule 404(a)(2) and Rule 404(a)(1) both allow the defendant to introduce character evidence through the propensity box, but..."

*brain death*

[RedKRules]

Well, he WAS written out of character in that one episode...with the little girl...who could shatter glass (and reading 200 pages of evidence homework today has clearly shattered my brain as I cannot think of the title just now).

The rat.

Shelby sucks. Darn dog. :p ;)

LOL ... don´t say that .... Shelby is the sweetest of them all :D ... and plays HERO too, but in Off Screenville with MM !! :D:D:D

[Jade4813]

LOL ... don´t say that .... Shelby is the sweetes of them all :D ... and plays HERO too, but in Off Screenville with MM !! :D:D:D

:lol: I was going to continue my little joke by accusing Shelby of eating tiny baby fluffy kittens in his spare time, but now you've made me feel too bad about trying to slander my poor Shelbs. Awwww...

[Tatiana]

this is very confusing, I think it was her but at the same time it wasn't her, she would have never done something like that before, so it is like the power she has acquired thanks to Brainiac, has polluted her mind and has changed her personality in some ways...she looked scary

[AndiGirl]

I dont think this is going to be resolved anytime soon ya'll! :lol: (I'm dressed up as a cowgirl for Halloween.....gettin in the spirit!)

Anywho....I think the only problem I have with this thread is...the fact that people are so quick to throw Chloe under the bus.

Thats where we have the issue. Those who are her die hard fans....dont want to believe she could have anything to do with it.

Those who dont like the character say "that wasnt brainiac...its all chloe baby!"

Then people like me...who are in the middle say....big suprise.....the answer is somewhere in the middle. It's not totally Chloe...but she isnt full fledged brainiac either.

So, I guess we'll all just have to wait and see....but it is nice to see a possible hint at the evilness brewing inside of Chloe. :)

[Hoshi_Reed]

Uhm, wasn't that petit blond taking off the glove Chloe? Perhaps I have been watching a different Smallville all these years, but I could swear that girl was Chloe.

As I said, until the show tell us otherwise, who killed Sebastian was Chloe. It was SHOWN to us.
They HAVE shown us via characterization, plot, arc, wardrobe, acting, etc that it is Brainiac. They even gave a 'previously on' to refresh the arc in the watchers mind. Do you REALLY need them to spell it out and have Brainiac go, I'm Brainiac in this body, and I'm killing you?


Then I must be blinded and missed the guy pointing a gun to her head or Brainiac oozing down from her ears.

It was SHOWN to us that it was Chloe. That's it, period. Nothing more than that, no facts or explanations given. That's why there is a debate in the first place, because NONE of us really knows.
Really? Seriously? THAT is what it would take. Blatant spelling out? Spelling it out is BAD WRITING. Good writing/acting is about nuances and specific production choices.


:confused:

Can you grasp the concept of "corruption"? This is not the same old Chloe. I even doubt that anyone here is even thinking that normal Chloe would do that. But this is not that Chloe, this is Chloe with an alien entity on her mind.

This thread is about Chloe being in control or not, not if normal Chloe would do it or not.

It is about control and like I said, Corruption is when Chloe is attracted to Davis. this was Brainaic controlling.
A computer, once infected can also be controlled at will.


*snort* Smallville fans do seem to come off as a bloodthirsty lot, don't they? I can't think of a single character that hasn't been viciously attacked by some group or other.

*ponders*

Well, maybe Shelby...
Does thinking of a delicious BBQ count?
:lol::rotfl::eek:
And Yes, I have eaten dog before. Horse too.

[Dustmite]

Anywho....I think the only problem I have with this thread is...the fact that people are so quick to throw Chloe under the bus.

I have a problem with it too but I'm not surprised at all by the reaction :\ It raises my defences and I'm less likey to want to have a nice debate about the details, ya know?! :\

[Jade4813]

Does thinking of a delicious BBQ count?
:lol::rotfl::eek:
Ad Yes, I have eaten dog before. Horse too.

*ponders* I suppose it's better to think of delicious BBQ when looking at Shelby than it would be for, say, Lana...

On the other hand, you've broken my heart! I thought we actually found a character everyone could agree that we liked! *sob*

[Malicieux Toutou]

You love Shelby, and Hoshi would love Shelby with BBQ sauce. So you agree!

[AndiGirl]

I have a problem with it too but I'm not surprised at all by the reaction :\ It raises my defences and I'm less likey to want to have a nice debate about the details, ya know?! :\

I feel the same way...dont worry. :)
I just figure the people who are very anti-Chloe and pro-superman (only if chloe isnt around) are the people doing the throwing.

For some reason a lot of people on the boards feel Chloe hinders clarks progress becoming Superman. I just think thats ridiculous...Clark has a mind, and can think for himself. If he relies on chloe too much...thats certainly not just chloes fault.

They are naturally progressing this season, and finding their own ways. Why does Chloe have to die or turn evil to make Clark Superman?? I just dont understand.... :confused:.

So yep...dont let the negative comments get you down. I'm not naive by any means..i think Chloe is partially to blame. But I think its much too soon and critical to say "Its all Chloe!" and like I said...most of those people just want to see Chloe crash and burn, so I just ignore it.:rotfl: I agree though...its quite frustrating though. :\

[Malicieux Toutou]

I just got a horrible image of rotisserie Lana cooking over an open fire

[RedKRules]

I totally agree with you ANDI :) Well said !!

[Jade4813]

I just got a horrible image of rotisserie Lana cooking over an open fire

And in my head just now, I just put that image to Christmas music...:\

I think I need a nap. And to scrub out my brain with acid. :p

[supermanjunkie]

I think she was in control, technicly I don't think she killed him it was his own power that killed him, she said the brain is like a computer overload it and it shuts down, So with chloes super computer skills being able to read info like she can her brain is like the world wide web itself and when she touch him he tapped into so much info from her that it overloaded his brain killing him. he got more info then he could take, she knew it would kill him but really think it was his power that caused the death

[dru-zod2501]

I dont think this is going to be resolved anytime soon ya'll! :lol: (I'm dressed up as a cowgirl for Halloween.....gettin in the spirit!)

Anywho....I think the only problem I have with this thread is...the fact that people are so quick to throw Chloe under the bus.

Thats where we have the issue. Those who are her die hard fans....dont want to believe she could have anything to do with it.

Those who dont like the character say "that wasnt brainiac...its all chloe baby!"

Then people like me...who are in the middle say....big suprise.....the answer is somewhere in the middle. It's not totally Chloe...but she isnt full fledged brainiac either.

So, I guess we'll all just have to wait and see....but it is nice to see a possible hint at the evilness brewing inside of Chloe. :)
I wouldn't say we're quick to sacrifice Chloe. I'm a die-hard Chloe fan, been since day 1. For the last few seasons she's been the most important hero on the show. Today I'm just going by what I saw, and I've looked over the ep time and again. I don't think you're being very fair putting us into one extreme or the other. I'd repeat my opinion, but Timester has done such an excellent job of iterating it.

[Chlois Supporter]

Then I must be blinded and missed the guy pointing a gun to her head or Brainiac oozing down from her ears.

It was SHOWN to us that it was Chloe. That's it, period. Nothing more than that, no facts or explanations given. That's why there is a debate in the first place, because NONE of us really knows.

Just some facts.

The first time Chloiac ever spoke on this show, he made allusions to the human brain beong the most powerful computer on earth. (Actually what he said was "Do you know where the greatest supercomputer in the world resides? Right here. It's the human brain. Yet we only use 10% of it."

Just before Chloiac takes out Sebastian, what does she do, make an allusion to the human brain being like a computer. She's cold, calculating, remorseless.

THEN after she walks out of the room, and the guy is dying, and she's closest to the camera, she blinks, alot. Over and over again, like someone snapping out of a dreamstate.

What's even more is that, the allusion by Chloiac that a human brain, like a computer, will crash if overloaded with too much information, and all the data's lost. Chloe downloaded Brainiac's knowledge. Brainiac was the most powerful computer on Krypton. His databanks presumably hold the knowledge of 28 known galaxies. Has it ever occured to anyone, that what Chloiac was talking about wasn't Sebastian's upcoming death. But the fact that this was never Chloe at all. That Chloe's brain died when Brainiac tried to take her over like Lana, and then, when Clark defeated Brainiac, the Brainiac programming that was left behind in Chloe's mind took over.

[AndiGirl]

I wouldn't say we're quick to sacrifice Chloe. I'm a die-hard Chloe fan, been since day 1. For the last few seasons she's been the most important hero on the show. Today I'm just going by what I saw, and I've looked over the ep time and again. I don't think you're being very fair putting us into one extreme or the other. I'd repeat my opinion, but Timester has done such an excellent job of iterating it.

I'm sorry If I offended you. Just trying to make sense of the madness. You are absolutely right...there are numerous people on the boards that dont fall into any of those categories. I'm going off the majority...and what I've seen.

There are a lot of very passionate Chloe fans who feel she can do no wrong...so it must be brainiac completelty.

Those who dont care for her at all....and have no problem jumping to the conclusion thats it's all her.

Then those who try to remain moderate and say "yes...it could be a mix of both."

Thats all I was personally trying to say. Just because people dont agree doesnt mean anyones wrong. Just very different viewpoints. It just personally gets tiring to have threads where people argue time and time again...when nobody will just stop and say "hey...we dont agree, whatever..." :lol:

On the other hand though...i personally think the character of Chloe desveres respect and those who want to watch her be torn apart just because they dont like her, need to respect the fact that others do find the character to be interesting. :)

Once again..I didnt mean to over generalize...just making an observation

[supermanjunkie]

The guy overloaded his own brain. Chloe just gave him the helping hand

[Diego*Chloe]

The guy overloaded his own brain. Chloe just gave him the helping hand

Jeje ITA

well i don´t know i don´t think it was Chloe just a bit of Brainiac, well maybe was Chloe using the lack of emotions of Brainiac OMG i make no sense sorry :p

[ginnyfan]

I don't know what to vote because her attitude during and after are completely different. At first she was calm and collected with what she was doing and saying and showed no signs of being afraid. Then after she had this face that said to me "what have I done? " and she definitely looked remorseful about what just happened.

I can't really say Brainiac took over then because basically it seems like it was all her.

Her powers are definitely clouding her judgment and it's slowly chipping away at her morals much like powers do for Krypto Powered beings.

This is how I feel right now.

[Black Panda]

Am I supposed to believe it's just some random coincidence that Brainiac has infected her and that now she's killing people.
Did Lana have a secret desire to burn the crap out of her hand last season? Fine had complete control over Lana then. I think he wanted that with Chloe, but she fought him off so he only got a foothold. He's been maneuvering his way into greater and greater control.


Just before Chloiac takes out Sebastian, what does she do, make an allusion to the human brain being like a computer. She's cold, calculating, remorseless.

THEN after she walks out of the room, and the guy is dying, and she's closest to the camera, she blinks, alot. Over and over again, like someone snapping out of a dreamstate.

They HAVE shown us via characterization, plot, arc, wardrobe, acting, etc that it is Brainiac. They even gave a 'previously on' to refresh the arc in the watchers mind.
There really have been some acting, dialog, and prop clues for the past several episodes, and they have been growing more and more clear about when and how the influence works.


Chloe: "The human mind is simply a highly sophisticated computer; download too much information, and it crashes. And all the data is lost."

Sebastian: "What's that supposed to mean?"

Chloe: "Here - let me show you."
In other words, sure she does this to Sebastian, but this is also what Brainiac is doing to her.



I think at the beginning of the season was a Chloe influenced Brainiac. She wasn't aware of why she was feeling the way she was feeling, but Brainaic was tweaking her thoughts and emotions so that she wouldn't heed Clark's warnings.
And you also can see the emotions tweaked to make her more derisive and mocking in the episodes leading up to this. You can see her refusing to partner with Clark, while seemingly leaving things status quo.


If that's the case, I still go back to the beginning of the season when Clark warned Chloe about these powers. At that point, I believe that Chloe still had a choice to try and get rid of the powers or avoid using them but she decided to treat them as a gift and told Clark not to worry, that she would just see what happens.
Many of us saw that as one of the initial clues that Brainiac has been influencing her thinking. She knows what a threat he is, to blow it off is suspicious. As was her reluctance to be cured.


Chloe would feel guilty for her actions, even if she wasn't in control.
Especially if she thought she had been in control and she started to figure out that she had miscalculated (as Brainiac may have influenced her to).


Brainiac wasn't protecting Clark. He was eliminating an obstacle to his plan. Brainiac didn't want the FOTW to share his info with Tess or any one else because Brainiac needs Clark. He has always needed Clark to do something. The entire thrust of every Brainiac plotline has begun with Brainiac needs Clark to do something. Last season, Brainiac used Kara instead of Clark, but Brainiac's plans always involve the Els.
I suspect we will see part of that come to fruition next week.

[FlashInSV]

I think Chloe is so committed to keeping Clark's secret that she'd go to any lenghts.

Let me clear this up: It is possible that Chloe has pondered much over what she was willing to do to protect Clark. She is ready to die for him, but is she ready to kill for him, too? Chloe would never go as far as taking a life. Brainiac-influenced Chloe, however, is much like a Chloe without conscience. Chloe with a distorted sense of right and wrong would kill for Clark.

[marikology]

It is about control and like I said, Corruption is when Chloe is attracted to Davis. this was Brainaic controlling.
A computer, once infected can also be controlled at will.


The corruption thing doesn't really work for me because we have had clear moments of her acting completely like herself since the beginning of the season, such as in Odyssey and Plastique and even in this episode with the Chlark scene in Isis. I don't see it as a gradual changing of her personality, allowing her to kill someone. I see it as her having these moments where Brainiac is completely in control and doing what he wants her to do.

As for her expression, where others see remorse or guilt, I saw "what just happened to me?" complete confusion. Without any backup dialogue or actions, it's too subjective to call. I run into this problem frequently on the SV Wiki, where neutrality is the key. Two other examples were Clark's expression/reaction to the Hydro Clois kiss, and Lex's when Lana reveals she's pregnant in "Static". It can be debated endlessly, but nobody can be proven right, even if they resolve the plotline. (like the Fake!Baby storyline. )

Now, don't get me in trouble by going off on an OT debate about these! Take it to the appropriate thread! My point is, it's too subjective to use to prove your point cos someone else will interpret it different.

[davidbrenton]

I think Chloe was in control. There was an interview in TV guide or something saying Braniac SLOWLY starts taking control of Chloe's body AFTER BRIDE.

[Sue Denim]

I see it as her having these moments where Brainiac is completely in control and doing what he wants her to do.

She keeps leaving doors open and unlocked and forgetting about it. It is subject, but I don't think she's in control. She even asks at the end of Odyssey, "What's happening to me?" Chloe's confused, therefore, I am too.

Clark clearly thinks that something is wrong with Chloe, in both "Toxic" and "Instinct". Clark knows Chloe better than anyone. Something's amuck.

[dimeo782002]

i totally disagree that chloe did the killing allherself . ch,oe would not do that she knows if clark found out what it would do to him. chloe knows clark would blame himself thinking that if chloe did not know his secret she never would have killed for him and chloe knows that she would not hurt him like that .... never !

she is being influenced by a computer in her brain that has been made known that brainiac has infected her soemhow. so i don't see why or how it would be chloe. this is not NORMAL circumstances so therefore it is not chloe under NORMAL circumstances. Chloe would not kill in the name of Clark kent she knows it would hurt him. there friendship and clarks respect means to much to her . she is influeneced by brainiac period !

[DontCha]

wanting to protect clark is ALL CHLOE

killing people is Brainiac.

mix em together and you have that scene.

[dimeo782002]

I totally agree with you ANDI :) Well said !!

me too ! chloe under NORMAL circumstances would have let her conscience kick in but having a certain brain intercative construct infecting her brain definetly had something to do with it. i dodge the tomatoes being thrown at me because they are always from the same basket ----- !

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


wanting to protect clark is ALL CHLOE

killing people is Brainiac.

mix em together and you have that scene.


bravo ! im glad someone sees clearly . now if we could all be this objective .

i agree with this she definatly wants to protect him but she would not kill thats brainiac .

[DontCha]

Chloe would have never done that if she was 100% herself. Thats why it was SUCH a shock because chloe would NEVER do that. Its obvious something wasnt right with her.

She has Brainiac, someone who finds it easy to kill people, slowly infecting her. So he influences her choices.

----- Added 24 Minutes later -----

IMO, its just like evil willow from buffy

She would never kill people when she was 100% herself but when the black magic infected her she found it easy.

When she broke free of its grip and returned to her correct state of mind. She wasnt evil anymore but she remembered doing everything, every death, every evil thing with such ease, but because she's back to being her normal self she felt terrible guilt from it.

I think in Abyss clark will let her forget these moments where she killed people because it will emotionally cripple her when she's returned to normal

[zguida09]

i dont think she was

[RedKRules]

wanting to protect clark is ALL CHLOE

killing people is Brainiac.

mix em together and you have that scene.

ITA!:cool:;)

[ClLaLeChFAN01]

I agree with DontCha....

The Chole before the Brainiac incendent would never kill people on purpose

However if you add a hint of Brainiac you have a combination that can be dangerous

[Smallville6]

wanting to protect clark is ALL CHLOE

killing people is Brainiac.

mix em together and you have that scene.

Basically that's the best explaination I've heard!

[Timester]

wanting to protect clark is ALL CHLOE

killing people is Brainiac.

mix em together and you have that scene.

Basically what I have been trying to say last night. She is not the same old Chloe, but she isn't also Brainiac.

[Hoshi_Reed]

The corruption thing doesn't really work for me because we have had clear moments of her acting completely like herself since the beginning of the season, such as in Odyssey and Plastique and even in this episode with the Chlark scene in Isis.
And if someone were to infect your computer and corrupt your registry, you would still be able to surf the web and email people like normal. You may notice a bit of a slowdown/or alteration in performance in areas I'm interested in (like bandwidth and HD space) but you would still be in control until I activate and take full control to slave your computer and have it DCC files at will. That is the very definition of a Zombie Bot in IRC.

Brainiac has corrupted Chloe AND also takes control when needed.

[DontCha]

I'd say she's 50% Chloe and 50% brainiac by this point?

[redRound]

I think she was in control. She's been corrupted, but she's in control.

[abbaspice1]

I don't know why, but I got the image of Flip Wilson (one of the comedic geniuses of all time), wearing a blonde wig and a drss, yelling:

"The DEVIL Made Me Do It!"


Anyhow, Chloe did it. She may have been influenced, or infected, by Brainiac. He may have suppressed her moral inclinations against killing.

But she was in control. She wanted to protect Clark. This guy had killed others. He basically threatened to make their lives crazy. And he tried to kill her cousin.

Chloe was at the edge, looking over the cliff. She had used Brainiac's powers in what she considered to be good reasons.

The way to hell is paved with good intentions.

[alienkinfolk]

wanting to protect clark is ALL CHLOE

killing people is Brainiac.

mix em together and you have that scene.


I agree, and I like it! (the scene)

[Odysseus]

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Chloe is in control, and her "what have I done?" expression afterwards seems to prove it. The thing is, just as she herself predicted when she initially discovered she had powers in S6, her power is corrupting her, she's finding it easier and easier to use it to get things done, to take the Machiavellian route. It's not that far of a stretch, given A. her unfailing devotion to her best friend Clark and B. the fact that many meteor freaks have also become corrupt

Brainiac would have no reason to protect Clark's secret. As a matter of fact, Brainiac would probably LOVE it if Clark's life was ruined by having his secret exposed to the prying eyes of the world (and by extension, Martha would also be hounded by media and government agents for the rest of her life as well).

Like I said before, Chloe herself has noted that upon discovering their abilities, many meteor freaks become corrupted by that power. And again, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[hiruko]

I have to go with what many people have said and say she is 50% Brainiac and 50% Chloe. I don't think Chloe would have killed him if she had been 100% herself. It's not in character for her to do so and the "what have I done" expression didn't last long before she put on a Brainiac expression.

Plus, really - when has Chloe worn all black? That was a blatant obvious wardrobe indicator that Chloe was not herself. Plus the theme of this episode was "Identity." Clark was struggling with his superhero identity. Oliver was conflicted about continuing to be the Green Arrow. And Chloe was struggling to retain her own identity that was being swallowed up by Brainiac. Obvious indicators that Chloe wasn't totally in control.

[TheAmazingApe]

I seriously think no. I think Brainiac is gaining ground inside Chloe and that she is having blank spots. I think she took that crsytal from Tess. But I don't think she knows she did it. I think that crystal was part of the plan, as we know from the Bloodline trailer that it was reprogrammed to send Clark to the PZ. Sounds like the work of a supercomputer to me. As far as motivation, I think Brainiac would be better served by following that game plan to get rid of Clark rather than having a loose cannon like Sebastian running around gumming up the works. I don't think it was to help or protect Clark. It was to maintain the status quo, keep with the plan, whatever it turns out to be.

Also the cold, blank look on her face during... That was not Chloe. In the previous ep, she's all about protecting the freaks, now she can coldly kill one with no expression? Too quick a turnaround.

I don't think Chloe was home during that scene. That look on her face as she walked away didn't seem to be one of remorse to me. It was confusion. And her look quickly turned blank again. I think someone almost woke up.

And, per the CW description for Abyss, he's going to gain even more ground inside her, erasing her memories. He's in there and he's looking to take over 24/7.

[Pantalaimon]

Haven't voted. I guess it's too early to make up my mind.

She did look very much like herself, but there was just a touch of disorientation when she walked out. And of course it seems ridiculous to think that a 100% Chloe would do something like this.

[SuperKyptonGirl13]

IMO, I don't think Chloe was in control, but not because i don't think she can do evil, she has the full capability of doing something bad, but she isn't a killer, now i do think Chloe is slowly being corrupted by Brainiac this season, in small ways , but if that were a just a corrupted Chloe she wouldn't have enjoyed killing that guy like she did, she also wouldn't have been confused after leaving the room like she was , she had a confused expression on her face, also i don' think this is proof that she was being controlled but i would like to point out that she was wearing a black glove the last time she was wearing a black glove like that was in Progeny at the beginning of th episode when she is trying to steal that file from Lex, because she was being controlled by her mother , a sign that she may have been mind controlled, i do think she was being controlled but i think it was left to ambiguous to be sure if either is true

[borednow]

I think she was in control. She's been corrupted, but she's in control.

Agreed

[Lazy Boy]

Can't believe that some people vote yes. Obliviously, Chloe has not been in complete control of herself since her decision to marry Jimmy :lol:

Don't forget her little conversation with Lana, when she found out about Isis and and also again in Traveler. In both conversation, it was pretty much established that Chloe does not kill to protect people's secret. So I agree that she may have suffer some sort of blackout during that time when Brianiac took over her mind.

[borednow]

Why would Brianiac kill that guy?

I'll buy no if someone can give me one logical or even slightly plausible reason for my baby to want to kill that guy. Until I get that you can make arguments all you want about how she looked dazed after she walked out, or about how she isn't a killer... but with motive, means and opportunity... it's looking like she was in control. Corrupted? Influenced by the dark sweetness within? Sure I'll believe it, but controlled? Not buying it until someone gives logical motive to my baby.

[TheANIMAL (marcus)]

Holy cow batman, i didn't expect 1 question to run and run like this.

BTW i agreee with teh corrupted theory,but i also like the indigo theory. (That Chloe's character is building up to be Brainiac 8, a strange and unique verson whose name is indigo)

[unex||den||adel]

chloe wont kill anybody, she gv her advise to Bette before in Plastuque.
i agree, its

chloe + brainiac = killer Chloiac

[RedKRules]

I agree with you !! unex

[A_Chloe.S._Fan]

There should be an inbetween option. I don't think Brainiac was "posessing" Chloe when she killed Sebastian, but she wasn't completely herself either. I believe Brainiac's darkness is starting to stream through her, and instead of making her do his own bidding, his evil is sort of affecting her own wants (like to do whatever it takes to protect Clark).

[oldblackmagick]

There should be an inbetween option. I don't think Brainiac was "posessing" Chloe when she killed Sebastian, but she wasn't completely herself either. I believe Brainiac's darkness is starting to stream through her, and instead of making her do his own bidding, his evil is sort of affecting her own wants (like to do whatever it takes to protect Clark).

ITA influenced but not controlled...thats how i see it... its what she was always worried about...that her power would corrupt her and she would turn into a krypto freak...well its happening for the most part right now...this is chloe's worst nightmare come to pass but it's still her behind the wheel...she has just had a bit o brainiac to drink:p

[harryandginnyfanatic]

Brainiac would have no reason to want to protect Clark's secret. Chloe would.

The powers have obviously corrupted her, but she's still the one driving.

[CoteW]

I think that brainiac made her more relexed about killing him made her think she was doing it for clark

[Welling_is_pretty]

My first thought was no, that Brainiac took control. But several posters have brought up a good point of 'why would Brainiac want to protect Clark's secret'?

SO now I don't know what to think! But I voted no before I read the posts so....