Superman, Doomsday, etc.

[Snow40]

Firstly, I loved this Superman-ish episode - we definitely need more of those!

Will someone summarize for me just who Doomsday is again?

And, how is Chloe affording to work at the Isis? I don't think it's a paying job, so how is she paying bills, etc.?

Thx.

[Kal-alien]

her sugardaddy jimmy is moonlighting taking wedding photos and maternity portraits to pay the bills

[bobsuncorp]

OK having not read all of the superman comics, just a few, and having seen Superman Doomsday feature animation I think I can answer without going into all the contradictions and re-tellings of origins that inevitably happen with all the comics out there.

Soo Doomsday was a genetically engineered killing machine developed I think by Kryptonians, but maybe another race just as advanced. Anyway the only problem with Doomsday was that his lust for destruction could not be controlled and he was impossible to kill. They finally managed to capture him and he was imprisoned and buried deep underground where hopefully he would never be able to escape. Unfortunately he was buried on Earth.

Eventually he escapes (I think in some stories Lex Luthor releases him unintentionally) and goes on a rampage of killing, until Superman goes to stop him and they have one hell of a showdown in Metropolis (in some tales I believe this happens at the same time as Lex has hatched his latest plot, and he has blocked out the sun so Superman is unable to regenerate as quickly and has to rely on "stored" energy during the fight) in this fight, Superman dies.

This is why Doomsday is such a big deal, because he is the only character to kill Superman. The comic creators were really clever as well, because they didn't resurrect him for months, and instead had other characters trying to fill his role instead, and the public began to think that he may actually be gone for good.

[SupesComicFan]

Doomsday was created by early Kryptonians, but everything you said, in a nutshell, is correct.

[SVsleuth]

And, how is Chloe affording to work at the Isis? I don't think it's a paying job, so how is she paying bills, etc.?

Thx.

I saw a comment in an interview somewhere in which Allison said something like "Chloe is working for Lana, at ISIS, and it's becoming a nearly full time job". I remember questioning if this meant that Lana actually HIRED Chloe, because the way it was said seemed to imply that she had. Sorry I can't remember exactly where that interview was.

[HalJordan4184]

Doomsday was not created by Kryptonians. He was created on Krypton, by an alien scientist that chose Krypton, because it had a harsh environment.

Just to dispell some misconceptions. Doomsday only had 1, thats ONE origin in the comic realm. As far as anyone knows, this origin still holds true for all the other mediums.

Doomsday started as an embryo, created by a scientist, who picked a lab on Krypton to work out of. He exposed the embryo to the harsh environment, and it died. He then took the remains, cloned them, and repeated the process, until he had a creature that could survive the elements. Then the native creatures killed it, so he took those remains, cloned them, and kept repeating that process, forcing evolution to take place. Eventually he had a being, that was really powerful. Doomsday didn't like being repeatedly killed, so he killed the scientist, and went on a killing spree. The people of Krypton stopped him, and sent him off to exile. He died a few times in the process, but the forced evolution caused him to develop the ability to evolve past his last death, rendering him almost totally unkillable. Each time he dies, he evolves to become more powerful, and able to withstand the last thing to kill him. Needless to say, he wreaked galactic havoc, was eventually captured, and then contained on Earth, in the hope he wouldn't escape. He did, and that was when he met Superman, and the rest, is history.

Lex has never intentionally released him, nor has Lex been in the middle of hatching a scheme to black out the sun, and make Superman powerless, resulting in Doomsday killing him. He died, simply because Doomsday was strong enough, to actually beat Superman to death. Lex Luthor, as far as the comics, was actually mad at Doomsday, for stealing what Lex viewed as his ultimate triumph, and conquest, killing Superman.

[RJLCyberPunk]

Firstly, I loved this Superman-ish episode - we definitely need more of those!

Will someone summarize for me just who Doomsday is again?

And, how is Chloe affording to work at the Isis? I don't think it's a paying job, so how is she paying bills, etc.?

Thx.

Umm... OK first of all can I ask how or why do you call this episode SuperMan-ish when you do not even have a clue about Doomsday or just about any villain from SuperMan/DC comics?:confused:

[Stu.Kent]

^^^
everyone knows superman saves people. you could of watched every (live-action) superman film there is without ever hearing about doomsday. doomsday may be infamous in the comic book world but his reputation doesn't extend much further than that.

[davidbrenton]

Wow. Thanks for the debriefing. I was not sure what doomsday's history was either. I'm not a comic follower, so my opinion may not matter, but I'm really loving that they brought such a threat to the smallville world.

[Ilidan]

Pretty much that's what I know about him, too.
I can add that the reason that Doomsday has such a driving desire to destroy Superman is because he hates everything Kryptonian or related to the planet, since it was the original source of his tremendous suffering.

Can't really blame him, really.

[Khyla]

Wow. Thanks for the debriefing. I was not sure what doomsday's history was either. I'm not a comic follower, so my opinion may not matter, but I'm really loving that they brought such a threat to the smallville world.
Of course your opinion matters! The majority of people who watch and love this show are not necessarily comic followers. And I agree, it's cool to have another kind of unpredictable threat looming.


Pretty much that's what I know about him, too.
I can add that the reason that Doomsday has such a driving desire to destroy Superman is because he hates everything Kryptonian or related to the planet, since it was the original source of his tremendous suffering.

Can't really blame him, really.
so he retains memories from his previously cloned selves? That's very different from what's going on with Davis. He doesn't even retain memory of what goes on during his black-outs. and he seems more like a Dr. Jekyll /Mr. Hyde kind of character :\

[Bizarrolover]

I watched the 2006 Superman vs Doomsday animation (found it in youtube) and they said that doomsday was a bioengeneered creature created to serve as sort of police force, but that the experiment failed and the creature couldn't recongnize friend from foe. When Lex accidentally releases it, the creature marches to Metropolis and destroys anything that crosses its way, because, basically, it has to.

I really loved that animation. The fight between Supes and Doomy is great and I actually cried when Superman died.

[HalJordan4184]

Of course your opinion matters! The majority of people who watch and love this show are not necessarily comic followers. And I agree, it's cool to have another kind of unpredictable threat looming.


so he retains memories from his previously cloned selves? That's very different from what's going on with Davis. He doesn't even retain memory of what goes on during his black-outs. and he seems more like a Dr. Jekyll /Mr. Hyde kind of character :\


Doomsday doesn't necessarily retain memories, as much as he retains impressions, probably genetic impressions, since he isn't technically the same Doomsday that started out. He doesn't have intelligence, so to speak. He's pure, primal, hatred, and destruction. He has some primitive memories, mostly of Krypton I'd venture, as that's where his worst experiences happened. He also briefly gained intelligence in Emperor Joker. However, this is where it was also revealed Doomsday is afraid of something... Superman. Superman is the only being to best him in combat, MULTIPLE times. They've fought more than once, and each time, Superman manages to come out on top. This scares Doomsday, because no other being that has ever fought him, has really survived, much less been able to keep beating him. Because of this, Doomsday even garnered a deep respect for Superman, after becoming intelligent, and even became one of the biggest believers in Superman's legacy after the whole Gog thing in the comics. He even voluntarily sacrificed his intelligence, and the first real "life" he's ever had, to ensure Superman could keep on going, do what he does. Doomsday, the only being to ever kill Superman, also became the only person in the future, that could save him.

[old guy]

While Doomsday has received a lot of his notoriety for being able to "kill" Superman, didn't Superman also "kill" Doomsday in that epic battle (although neither ultimately stayed dead)? And wasn't a factor in the outcome Superman's typical approach in which he didn't hit Doomsday with full force initially because he's always concerned about using too much force and killing someone (despite the fact that Doomsday had wiped out many Justice Leaguers)? Doomsday started the fight by wailing on Superman with full force. By the time Superman realized how strong Doomsday was and responded in kind, he was already weakened by taking on Doomsday's full power strikes.

I've always sensed that if Superman had done some homework ahead of time (much like Batman approaches a battle) and used full force blows from the get-go, and used speed blitzes to try and avoid taking punches from Doomsday (I believe Superman is faster), then he may have been able to better survive the fight. Of course, the writers had already decided that Superman was supposed to die in that episode so ......:\

[HalJordan4184]

What exactly would his homework consisted of? Watching Doomsday murder millions, and destroy half the world, while guaging just how strong he was when coming up against opponents weaker than Superman?

Also, the approach you mentioned does factor in, because that is Superman. Any other approach, wouldn't have been the Superman thing to do. Had he used full force early on, he may have been able to defeat Doomsday without dying himself. However, there would also have been a lot more damage, and more innocent deaths. Superman's major use of his powers in the Doomsday battles, wasn't just fighting Doomsday, it was expending a lot of his energy in saving innocent people, caught in Doomsday's way.

[Darth Pipes]

While Doomsday has received a lot of his notoriety for being able to "kill" Superman, didn't Superman also "kill" Doomsday in that epic battle (although neither ultimately stayed dead)? And wasn't a factor in the outcome Superman's typical approach in which he didn't hit Doomsday with full force initially because he's always concerned about using too much force and killing someone (despite the fact that Doomsday had wiped out many Justice Leaguers)? Doomsday started the fight by wailing on Superman with full force. By the time Superman realized how strong Doomsday was and responded in kind, he was already weakened by taking on Doomsday's full power strikes.



They might have retro-changed it but Superman realized his only way to stop Doomsday was to kill him.

[optinox]

why would kryptonians lock doomsday up in a container and bury him underground on earth, when they were a peaceful race and cared about earth and humans, and wouldn've jor-el have known about this, since he seems to know everything else, possibly preparing clark/superman better?

doomsday didn't kill superman, superman depowered to the point of losing conciousness, in the cartoon version he need to be repowerd, sorta the same idea like in the season 8's episode. now i'm not sure if the sun was blocked out during the fight with doomsday, but if it wasn't then supes would've been standing after the fight but i don't remember reading about the sun being blocked, if anyone knows the answer reply. lets see what each character has, which has the advantage.

Doomsday: Superstrength, can move fast, invulnerable, heals quickly, if dies comes back immune to what killed him (comes back stronger), with his strenght he's able to jump far distances. 7 feet, stocky, grey or brown skinned beast, with grey hair, and bones coming out of him in certain areas.

Weakness-none that i can think of,

Clark: superstrength (probably no where near his max levels yet), superbreath, heatvision, xray-telscopic vision, superspeed (near speed of light), can superjump. super hearing, invulnerable and near indestructable if exposed to the yellow sun.

Weakness-green K

none of clarks abilities would really have any advantage over doomsday, except flight which he does not have yet, heatvision probably wouldn't hurt doomsday, superbreath may blow him way but he'd come back, strength wise they could be even maybe doomsday stronger, superspeed is the only think clark has as an upperhand, he can move waaaaaaay faster than doomsday and theoretically hit him tons of times more...the fact is doomsday is a mean SOB and hopefully smallville does this right.

[HalJordan4184]

why would kryptonians lock doomsday up in a container and bury him underground on earth, when they were a peaceful race and cared about earth and humans, and wouldn've jor-el have known about this, since he seems to know everything else, possibly preparing clark/superman better?

doomsday didn't kill superman, superman depowered to the point of losing conciousness, in the cartoon version he need to be repowerd, sorta the same idea like in the season 8's episode. now i'm not sure if the sun was blocked out during the fight with doomsday, but if it wasn't then supes would've been standing after the fight but i don't remember reading about the sun being blocked, if anyone knows the answer reply. lets see what each character has, which has the advantage.

Doomsday: Superstrength, can move fast, invulnerable, heals quickly, if dies comes back immune to what killed him (comes back stronger), with his strenght he's able to jump far distances. 7 feet, stocky, grey or brown skinned beast, with grey hair, and bones coming out of him in certain areas.

Weakness-none that i can think of,

Clark: superstrength (probably no where near his max levels yet), superbreath, heatvision, xray-telscopic vision, superspeed (near speed of light), can superjump. super hearing, invulnerable and near indestructable if exposed to the yellow sun.

Weakness-green K

none of clarks abilities would really have any advantage over doomsday, except flight which he does not have yet, heatvision probably wouldn't hurt doomsday, superbreath may blow him way but he'd come back, strength wise they could be even maybe doomsday stronger, superspeed is the only think clark has as an upperhand, he can move waaaaaaay faster than doomsday and theoretically hit him tons of times more...the fact is doomsday is a mean SOB and hopefully smallville does this right.


Doomsday killed Superman. Superman was dead, and had crossed over into the other side. The reason the cartoon wasn't made this way, was they felt they couldn't do the story justice, if they actually went the full on death and return route. Comics Superman, after the Doomsday fight, was actually dead.

Also, where do people keep getting Clark on Smallville is as fast, or just about as fast as light? He's never done anything remotely close to ever being at light speed. I've never seen him do anything like run around the world 7.5 times a second, or be instantaneously in Metropolis. There is always at least a slight delay.

[bobser]

In DC's most recent retelling of the story, the animated Superman vs. Doomsday, Superman managed to kill Doomsday after a long and epic battle, pretty much doing a free-fall from sub-space pile-driver on the beast to finish it off.

Superman also wasn't quite dead, I think being able to be regenerated with solar tech from one of his robots.

Who's to say what the writers are thinking or not, but Smallville Clark seems to be getting up to lightspeed range of speed, potential reaction time and perception within the last season or two. An example from last season, for instance: as Clark was superspeeding around in an episode, electric charges seemed to come to a complete standstill from his point of view.

Clark also literally shows up to Metropolis and any Point A to Point B within Smallville as near instantly as could be depicted, now with similar special effect as the one given to 'Impulse' in his first appearance on Smallville (season 4 where Bart skunked Clark in a race and dashed off like a red bolt of light).

[Dodge006]

Doomsday killed Superman. Superman was dead, and had crossed over into the other side. The reason the cartoon wasn't made this way, was they felt they couldn't do the story justice, if they actually went the full on death and return route. Comics Superman, after the Doomsday fight, was actually dead.

Also, where do people keep getting Clark on Smallville is as fast, or just about as fast as light? He's never done anything remotely close to ever being at light speed. I've never seen him do anything like run around the world 7.5 times a second, or be instantaneously in Metropolis. There is always at least a slight delay.

Man, am I glad you're here to write all this...I was going nuts, but each time you filled in perfect, Bravo.:)

[27CDruid]

FYI doomsday has a slight weakness to Green Kryptonite. It doesnt damage him like superman but irritates him like a wasp sting.

[KalEl45]

wow i never knew that thats cool!

[optinox]

well i didn't say clark can move at the speed of light, i said he can move close to the speed of light. I've read versions of supes being able to move near the speed of light on land, and at the speed of light during flight. They haven't really showed clarks powers getting stronger, they mostly show him learning how to control or use them better

Impulse or flash can move at the speed of light, (i think in comics he can surpass that), and clark was a litte ways behind him, so i would say that the writers gave hint to how fast clark can move. and if you don't want to accept that, then at least believe he's moving faster than sound which as been shown in the show before. Lastly if clark was in superspeed and electrical charges were shown slowed down or stopped, then theres another hint at how fast clark can move....it's not like he has to or moves that speed all the time, its what hes capable of.

Clarks superspeed is much faster than doomsdays, but doomsday is quick for his size...one min they say pre-crisis superman was too strong, but how can any comic book company say that (DC, Marvel, ect), look at the villains on both sides of the table...this is the reason why i like the cartoon version better, it didn't make supes look like a normal superhero getting killed in the end, while doomsday revives and comes back stronger..it would be nice for smallville to show that as clark ages his kryptonian dna holds more energy, that would explain increase on powerlevels. Had the sun been blocked, i could accept taht supes actually was killed...but i guess theres so many angles to supes it sorta balances out. for instance, given supes was killed during the comic book fight with doomsday, a writer could add that all supes would need to do is a sun dip which causes supes to become even stronger, being able to defend himself without as much difficulty...but still sticking to his principles of not going all out and not wanting to hurt or kill someone purposely. hoepfully smallvilles version does both clark and doomsday justice in the series.

[REebee52]

well i didn't say clark can move at the speed of light, i said he can move close to the speed of light. I've read versions of supes being able to move near the speed of light on land, and at the speed of light during flight. They haven't really showed clarks powers getting stronger, they mostly show him learning how to control or use them better

Impulse or flash can move at the speed of light, (i think in comics he can surpass that), and clark was a litte ways behind him, so i would say that the writers gave hint to how fast clark can move. and if you don't want to accept that, then at least believe he's moving faster than sound which as been shown in the show before. Lastly if clark was in superspeed and electrical charges were shown slowed down or stopped, then theres another hint at how fast clark can move....it's not like he has to or moves that speed all the time, its what hes capable of.

Clarks superspeed is much faster than doomsdays, but doomsday is quick for his size...one min they say pre-crisis superman was too strong, but how can any comic book company say that (DC, Marvel, ect), look at the villains on both sides of the table...this is the reason why i like the cartoon version better, it didn't make supes look like a normal superhero getting killed in the end, while doomsday revives and comes back stronger..it would be nice for smallville to show that as clark ages his kryptonian dna holds more energy, that would explain increase on powerlevels. Had the sun been blocked, i could accept taht supes actually was killed...but i guess theres so many angles to supes it sorta balances out. for instance, given supes was killed during the comic book fight with doomsday, a writer could add that all supes would need to do is a sun dip which causes supes to become even stronger, being able to defend himself without as much difficulty...but still sticking to his principles of not going all out and not wanting to hurt or kill someone purposely. hoepfully smallvilles version does both clark and doomsday justice in the series.

There were some things in your post I didn't exactly understand, but I just wanted to say Doomsday is generally more than 'quick for his size.' If I recall early in the fight with Doomsday, Superman says to himself "he moves like the Flash!"

[HalJordan4184]

Doomsday had superspeed on par with Superman. Superman was surprised because he was so quick for his size. Their battle, in downtown metropolis itself, only lasted a few minutes, if that. For the most part, the people in Metropolis couldn't even tell what was happening, as it was happening to fast.

As far as CLark on Smallville, the Flash, in that one episode, wasn't just a little ahead of Clark. He took off so fast, that when Clark was in superspeed, running down the road, it looked to him, like the Flash took off at superspeed. Clark is fast, no doubt. However, there has never been any real indication on the show, he comes close to the speed of light.

As far as Superman getting killed, it didn't make him look like any other hero. It was poignant, and powerful, BECAUSE it was Superman. Superman, anything but an everyhero. This was the one guy, that even other superheroes looked to as unbeatable, and the epitome of everything they try to be. He got smacked down like a little girl.

[optinox]

k, doomsday may be quick for his size, other than brute strength, and quick reflexes, i would not expect him to be as quick as superman, considering supes gets his powers from the sun.

second, clark never goes full throttle with his powers, if anything he controls them and holds back. when he raced bart the first time, bart took off....bart can run at the speed of light, i think even faster in some variations of the character. when they raced the 2nd time, clark wasn't too far behind, then he stopped and pretty much waved goodbye to bart, this was when bart was leaving smallville. during that race i felt it indicated clark superspeeding near his max powerlevels, where he probably didn't hold back.

Also smallville had definately given an idea of how fast clark is, theres tons of episodes where they've used CGI to display that, if you use basic physics, in most cases you can come to a conclusion on that just by watching the CGI effects.

Doomsdays quick, i don't argue that point, he's also bigger and weighs more, so his rate of acceleration as well as the force he delivers on impact would be huge, even if he was considerably slower than supes, his physical stature and size, and mass could balance it out, since every movement doomsday makes is exerted with great force and acceleration.

there's so many variations of supes powers, you can't really argue the fight supes has wit anyone...theres so many angles where supes could easily win against most enemies including doomsday...even though i didn't like how supes died in the comics, and enjoyed the animated version better....i think this wasn't about supes taking the easy way out to defeat his enemy, this fight was based on brute strength, with doomsday and supes basically going punch for punch, it was a brawl for supes. during close combat doomsday would be quick against someone like supes, so that would explain why supes would say he's fast.

smallvilles version of doomsday might be davis with bones outta his forehead with superhuman strength, superspeed like clark...or they may use CGI and make him look like sorta like the comics, or they may just make him look like a shadow monster or similar look like the phantom zoners, who knows.

ya supes was said to be unbeatable, but look at all the other heros, ever hear of the century from Marvel comics, different storyline, but extremely strong, some say alot stronger than supes....i'm sure theres others as well, then you got all your enemies, doomsday, darkseid, ect....at that time maybe the story of supes being killed was a good thing for the business aspect of things. i just prefer the animated version better of supes not being killed but depowered. Superman is iconic because he's probably the #1 superhero most fans like...based on popularity contest i'd say supes would win. but nowadays it seems theres a handful of characters that can rival and possibly exceed supes strenghts as a kryptonian, but again theres so many angles you could use with supes just based on the yellow sun alone, that really it wouldn't matter....i mean you could litterally say supes was getting his @ass kicked by doomsday, then supes flies to sun and supercharges himself, coming back even stronger than doomsday and killing him, or you could say supes flew doomsday into the sun and burnt him to a crisp in the middle of the sun, or you could say he flew doomsday to another galaxy, the posibilities are almost endless. i do think doomsday did boost supermans status, sales, ect...the character is great and hopefully smallville does this thing good.

[hiler1988]

A lot of great opinions here...Thanks for clearing up the background to Doomsday, I wasn't too sure of him when first announced but now I know a good bit more...He's badass.

[justme_007]

I saw a comment in an interview somewhere in which Allison said something like "Chloe is working for Lana, at ISIS, and it's becoming a nearly full time job". I remember questioning if this meant that Lana actually HIRED Chloe, because the way it was said seemed to imply that she had. Sorry I can't remember exactly where that interview was.

Yes, you are right. Chloe is working for Lana. She said that in an interview ;)

[HalJordan4184]

Superman getting his power from the sun, has absolutely no bearing whatsoever, on how fast Doomsday is.

That's like saying I wouldn't expect Paul, to be as fast as Mike, because Mike ate Wheaties today, and Paul didn't.

Also, size, and mass, are pretty negligable, when you have superstrength sufficient to carry mount everest on your shoulder. At that point, the difference between 225 lbs, and 1500 lbs, is akin to the difference between 1/2 a piece of paper, and a full piece of paper.

Doomsday, has superspeed. I doesn't matter what the cartoon said. If we go that route, why didn't Superman just use his superspeed, and win the fight?

Doomsday is just as fast as Superman, and just about as strong as Superman. That's why, he could KILL Superman.

As far as Clark's speed, did we watch the same episode. Clark and Bart were running down the road, TOGETHER, when Bart turned around, and simply took off, leaving Clark in the dust. Clark THEN STOPPED, and stood there just staring, with a somewhat awestruck look on his face. There was never a time where CLark raced Bart, and kept up, then let him get away, all the while being almost just as fast as him. SMallville's Clark has never done anything at near the speed of light.

[BULLITT]

Major advantage Supes had over Doomsday, in the comics, was flight...uh, never mind.

[Dodge006]

As far as Clark's speed, did we watch the same episode. Clark and Bart were running down the road, TOGETHER, when Bart turned around, and simply took off, leaving Clark in the dust. Clark THEN STOPPED, and stood there just staring, with a somewhat awestruck look on his face. There was never a time where CLark raced Bart, and kept up, then let him get away, all the while being almost just as fast as him. SMallville's Clark has never done anything at near the speed of light.

Exactly.

The speed of light is 299,792,458 meters per second (in a vacuum). That's about 186,000 miles per second....or (as I think HalJordan4184 already said) 7.48 times around the earth in one second. Clark hasn't even begun to reach those speeds, nor the flash for that matter.

At about half that speed however, there will no longer be a detectable "red streak" that so many people have witnessed, and we see all the time. This has happened in a couple eps where Clark has saved Lex, or others from being shot and they didn't see anything at all...so the one thing we do know, is he's at about half the speed of light right now.

[Guidron]

Well Clark's got to be pretty fast based on the episode where he superspeeds in the middle of the football game to save Chloe and then manages to get back to the game without anyone noticing he was gone.

As to exactly how fast? Who knows.

[HalJordan4184]

There was a thread about that at the time. I believe I figured that Clark was moving somewhere around 4,000 or 5,000 miles an hour.

I guessed he ran maybe a total of 500 or 600 yards. High school football fields generall aren't that big, he ran off to the side, rather than down field, and stayed within the stadium confines. So 600 yards, is 1800 feet. He did the whole circuit in maybe .25-.5 seconds, otherwise, the people in the stands may have noticed his disappearance, as the eye would register that movement. They wouldn't be able to tell exactly what was going on at the time, but it would be noticable. So we'll assume he was fast enough, that nothing even registered on the human eye.

1800 feet, in .25 seconds, is 7,200 feet per second, 432,000 feet per minute, and 25,920,000 feet per hour. That equates to 4909.090909 miles per hour.

We can see then that Clark doesn't have to be anywhere near as fast as some people try to make him out to be. Even if we assume Metropolis is a three hour drive from smallville, that puts it at only about 150-180 miles away. Clark only needs to be moving around 324,000 miles an hour to make it to Metropolis is his customary 2-3 seconds. He's still got a long way to go before he's anywhere close to lightspeed.

[optinox]

when did i ever say that if supes went into the sun he'd be faster than doomsday...i said if he went into the he'd be supercharged and come back stronger than doomsday. Ever read superman prime comic?

And second i don't base my impression of supes from the one comic when supes died against doomsday. i can accept the fact that doomsday was a tough enemy for supes, but i don't base that fight or that storyline on my impression of supes today. It was a different era, and depending on what variation of supes you like, it's undebatable how who would win. If your a fan from the Pre-crisis age, or superman prime then supes would have God like powers and doomsday wouldn't stand a chance. I like all variations of the storyline of supes, but It doesn't matter, because they wrote the story the way they wanted it to, sueprman could've easily won, brutally lost, or went the way they did it. The fact is given supes abilities, the writer can really come up with many ideas, the difference is that the writers chose to write the battle of doomsday vs supes the way they wanted to do it.

Second i meant supes can run near the speed of light, i wrote clark not smallvilles clar (sorry for the confusion), ya bart took off, but clark wasn't too far behind him....clark slowed down when bart took off, so ya i agree clark on smallville is probably doing maybe half the speed of light. maybe after his training he'll be able to go faster. They use the streak for CGI effectsd to show clark moving fast. If they didn't, it would look like clark appears and disappears on the screen, it's for effects man.

I'm pretty sure there was a poster who said there was an episode where clark was in superspeed and electrical charges were being slowed down...if your good at physics or at least know the basics, its easy to figure out what speed clark is capable of. Hint....watch the "Identity" trailer...the flash while clark is in superspeed mode...you litterally see the light of the flash produce, and evolve larger, and larger until the shutter realeases and jimmy gets the shot...again, clark is clearly moving really, really fast...but i won't debate that he's close to bart, at least not yet.

[HalJordan4184]

Clark on SMallville, is moving nowhere near the speed of light. He's not even moving at half the speed of light.

If you knew anything of physics, you'd know that light is the only thing exempt from the relativity rule. Light, no matter how fast you are moving, appears to be moving at the speed of light. This is due to C being a constant, universally. Light speed, no matter your individual speed or position, always appears to be moving at light speed. The only way you circumvent this, is if you pass light speed. At that point, you don't exist physically, so it doesn't matter anymore.

On the topic of the Identity trailer, well, if Clark is moving as fast as you are insinuating he is, he'd be in the shutter range of the camera for less than 1/10000 of a second. Too fast for any camera on Earth to capture even a streak. He's be out of shutter range and to china and back before the picture was captured. If he's moving even 1/5th the speed of light, he's moving at 37200 miles per second. Let's say Clark is 3 feet from the camera, and that camera is capturing four feet to either side. That's an eight foot area for Clark to go through. Clark is moving at 196,416,000 feet per second. He'd be in the range of that camera for only .0000000407298794 seconds. He wouldn't even register on the image, and when he went to grab anyone, they'd literally explode from the sheer force of his impact.

[optinox]

again, i didn't say clark on smallville can run at the speed of light, i said supermans superspeed capabilities are near the speed of light. another poster suggested maybe clarks maximum is only half that at most, and i simply agreed, as well suggesting if he hasn't pushed himself he won't go that fast. I also didn't say on smallville that it shows him going the speed of light, i'm glad you know basic physics cause i'm sure you understand what i mean. when i say in smallville they use the cgi effects when clarks in superspeed, what i meant was that if you (and obviously you do, and anyone else for that matter) understands basic physics, that you can get an idea or even calculate an estimate at how fast clark is moving, like you did with the camera flash. I never mentioend anything that said "Clark on smallville can run near the speed of light", when i said clark i meant superman clark, older clar kent. i'll admit, i never realized doomsday was as fast as supes, i can see teh brute strength, and his invulnerablity, based on his origin, and being quick...but i didn't think he'd have superspeed like a kryptonian would.

And another thing too, clarks abilities in general no matter how you look at it, vary depending on whos writing the story. some writers make his power levels and capabilities really high while others sorta depower them, i agree with you...clark isn't moving anywhere near the speed of light, i never debated that at all. i suggested by watching the effects you can get an idea of how fast he is moving, and if i had to guess what his max potential is, i'd say maybe half the speed of light at most, and i'm probably totally wrong but that would be my guess. i never said he could or would do that or more.

[Guidron]

There was a thread about that at the time. I believe I figured that Clark was moving somewhere around 4,000 or 5,000 miles an hour.

I guessed he ran maybe a total of 500 or 600 yards. High school football fields generall aren't that big, he ran off to the side, rather than down field, and stayed within the stadium confines. So 600 yards, is 1800 feet. He did the whole circuit in maybe .25-.5 seconds, otherwise, the people in the stands may have noticed his disappearance, as the eye would register that movement. They wouldn't be able to tell exactly what was going on at the time, but it would be noticable. So we'll assume he was fast enough, that nothing even registered on the human eye.

1800 feet, in .25 seconds, is 7,200 feet per second, 432,000 feet per minute, and 25,920,000 feet per hour. That equates to 4909.090909 miles per hour.

We can see then that Clark doesn't have to be anywhere near as fast as some people try to make him out to be. Even if we assume Metropolis is a three hour drive from smallville, that puts it at only about 150-180 miles away. Clark only needs to be moving around 324,000 miles an hour to make it to Metropolis is his customary 2-3 seconds. He's still got a long way to go before he's anywhere close to lightspeed.

Nice work. I agree that he's nowhere near the speed of light, but the dude's still pretty quick :p:D

BTW, since you appear to know a good deal on the subject, do you know how fast something has to be moving before the human eye won't register the movement?

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


We can see then that Clark doesn't have to be anywhere near as fast as some people try to make him out to be. Even if we assume Metropolis is a three hour drive from smallville, that puts it at only about 150-180 miles away. Clark only needs to be moving around 324,000 miles an hour to make it to Metropolis is his customary 2-3 seconds. He's still got a long way to go before he's anywhere close to lightspeed.

Combine that with the fact that Metropolis seems to have been updated to be a lot closer than a 3 hr drive due to so many people living in Smallville but working in Metropolis. My guess these days is that it's about a 30 min drive.

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----


i said supermans superspeed capabilities are near the speed of light.

Depends on the version. Looks like Silver/Bronze age Superman could move faster than light but the Modern era Superman can't come close to the speed of light.

[Mr.Magic]

There was a thread about that at the time. I believe I figured that Clark was moving somewhere around 4,000 or 5,000 miles an hour.

I guessed he ran maybe a total of 500 or 600 yards. High school football fields generall aren't that big, he ran off to the side, rather than down field, and stayed within the stadium confines. So 600 yards, is 1800 feet. He did the whole circuit in maybe .25-.5 seconds, otherwise, the people in the stands may have noticed his disappearance, as the eye would register that movement. They wouldn't be able to tell exactly what was going on at the time, but it would be noticable. So we'll assume he was fast enough, that nothing even registered on the human eye.

1800 feet, in .25 seconds, is 7,200 feet per second, 432,000 feet per minute, and 25,920,000 feet per hour. That equates to 4909.090909 miles per hour.

We can see then that Clark doesn't have to be anywhere near as fast as some people try to make him out to be. Even if we assume Metropolis is a three hour drive from smallville, that puts it at only about 150-180 miles away. Clark only needs to be moving around 324,000 miles an hour to make it to Metropolis is his customary 2-3 seconds. He's still got a long way to go before he's anywhere close to lightspeed.

Alot of people already notice a delay of 50ms, that's 0.05 seconds. If you want you can say that people just ignore what they don't believe, but any slower than that...

[optinox]

exactly, depending on which writer or version of supes will affect his max power levels and abilities. i agree clark on smallville moves nowhere near the speed of light...but based on what you can gather from the cgi effects, you can calculate an estimate...but his speed is gonna vary depending on what the scenario is and other factors into the equation. just like a normal person he can decide how fast he wants to move but only up to his max potential but being the age he is, in smallville i don't think he's at his max power levels yet, i could be wrong...he did get whooped pretty good by Zod-Lex, which makes me think the older a kryptonian is the stronger he is, since clarks exposure to the yellow sun all these years didn't give him any upperhand during that battle...again i'm probably wrong.

in smallville anyone that has seen clark superspeed, clark just appears and disappears, thats what they see, and thats pretty much what we'd see with the human eye. you could blink twice and clark would there, gone and back in smallvilles version...what people would remember is his bright colors, the red, the blue, and those would stand out if someone said "I seen something in a red coat, and blue pants, appear and disappear", it would be like seeing a ghost, you probably would doubt seeing anything but would remember something, and unfortunately in smallville clark wears that darn bright red coat or blue shirts, which stands out even more...wish they would darken the colors, geeze, lol.

[Mr.Magic]

exactly, depending on which writer or version of supes will affect his max power levels and abilities. i agree clark on smallville moves nowhere near the speed of light...but based on what you can gather from the cgi effects, you can calculate an estimate...but his speed is gonna vary depending on what the scenario is and other factors into the equation. just like a normal person he can decide how fast he wants to move but only up to his max potential but being the age he is, in smallville i don't think he's at his max power levels yet, i could be wrong...

Yes and no.
Yes, Clark isn't at full power, yet, which should mean FTL capability (unless he's the old post-crisis CK, but who knows anymore with all the constant changes in the DCU).
No, he isn't limited. He travels at the speed of plot.

[Dodge006]

Alot of people already notice a delay of 50ms, that's 0.05 seconds. If you want you can say that people just ignore what they don't believe, but any slower than that...

That's a bit fast...a human blink takes 300-400 ms, or 0.3-0.4 seconds, and in that time (without boring anyone on the math) Clark could have easily made it down the football field and back without anyone noticing.




He wouldn't even register on the image, and when he went to grab anyone, they'd literally explode from the sheer force of his impact.

Under normal physics rules this may be true. But you of all people should know that one of the many explained things about Superman is his "aura" that does allow a level of protection, for example, when he takes Lois up in the air half way to space, and she's not cold or anything. The same excuse has been used for him saving people at superspeed.
Funny enough though, I remember an ep of Lois & Clark where he saved a band member from being crushed by a speaker and ended up breaking the guys arm, and the guy tried to sue Superman.

----- Added 14 Minutes later -----


Nice work. I agree that he's nowhere near the speed of light, but the dude's still pretty quick :p:D

BTW, since you appear to know a good deal on the subject, do you know how fast something has to be moving before the human eye won't register the movement?


It is believed that the human eye can detect images at 100-200 frames per second, and some say even beyond that. Problem is it's understudied, and near imposable to tell for sure due to interference factors (dust in the eye, moisture of the eye, light fluctuations...). Studies say that those images for the average person begine to blur at 30 FPS. A movie at the theater plays at 24 FPS, and you can see all the little specs on the film if you look for it, but if you're involved with the movie, you ignore those spots.

So short answer, it's not very fast at all for your mind to not register movements or details.

[Guidron]

Alot of people already notice a delay of 50ms, that's 0.05 seconds. If you want you can say that people just ignore what they don't believe, but any slower than that...

Yes, apparently the speed of eye processing is about 50ms which is 0.05s. If we go by the estimate that he traveled 1800 feet in JINX, then 1800ft in 0.05s = 36000 ft/s which would be 24545.4545 MPH. Speed of light = ≈ 6.71×108 mph or 671000000 MPH.

So it's likely that he can run pretty damn fast, but still no where near the speed of light. Kinda neat when you get down to the math of it though.:p

----- Added 33 Seconds later -----


He travels at the speed of plot.

Now this is the most truthful statement in the entire thread!:D

----- Added 8 Minutes later -----


It is believed that the human eye can detect images at 100-200 frames per second, and some say even beyond that. Problem is it's understudied, and near imposable to tell for sure due to interference factors (dust in the eye, moisture of the eye, light fluctuations...). Studies say that those images for the average person begine to blur at 30 FPS. A movie at the theater plays at 24 FPS, and you can see all the little specs on the film if you look for it, but if you're involved with the movie, you ignore those spots.

So short answer, it's not very fast at all for your mind to not register movements or details.

Yeah, I read a bit of an article on the fact that it is believed that the eye can register up to 200FPS. I know when I play a video game I can notice a significant difference when the framerate drops below 30, but not much of a difference between 30 and 60.

[HalJordan4184]

I know all about the aura thing, trust me on that. However, even then, he wasn't able to just swoop at in at mach 50, and grab someone and go. WHile it helped to cushion impacts at relatively high speed for a human, once you got into the supersonic range, Superman was still using deadly force on people if he tried to simply swoop by and grab them on the run.

[optinox]

i think its cool we can all talk civilized and provide creative input on the threads, i'm certainly taking everyones feedback postively, so thanks to all the posters. ya i always suspected clarks aura was what protected him and anyone, especially when he covers them, they never seem to get a scratch on them.

my theory is that even though he's moving at superspeed, he can be so precise that he can transition his speed so that its like all he has to do is grab or catch them gently, like he slows down just before but so fast and smooth you don't even notice it, making it appear that he'd squash anyone on impact.

i would like to believe clarks kryptonian dna will provide him more cells, or allowing him to store more solar energy as he ages till he reaches say 30 when he's at his peak. this would make sense why clark took a beating from Zod-Lex. not to be funny, but almost like his powers go through puberty, so when he's an adult (30), his power levels increease allowing him to do such feats such as near speed of light travel. but you definately get a general idea of how fast he's going by doing some calculations, i do think depending on the situation clark will go at whatever pace he wants, if he needs or wants to go faster he will. "something that travels at the speed of light, and something that can move up to the speed of light" are two very different statements, clark fits the 2nd statement much better, so in he's able to go at any speed, his superspeed isn't a constant like light itself. Clark on smallvillle though can move fast, no doubt about that...it would be nice to go back and use scenes to see if clark gradually gets faster throughout the seasons, or to get some other examples to calcuate out.

[Dodge006]

i think its cool we can all talk civilized and provide creative input on the threads, i'm certainly taking everyones feedback postively, so thanks to all the posters.

Very true, this is one of the best arugment threads I've been in on. I suspect that's one of the reasons we haven't been told that we have drifted completely off of the subject of Doomsday, as this is the thread about him. Although, it could also be because Doomsday wasn't actully in this ep either, lol.

[Guidron]

i think its cool we can all talk civilized and provide creative input on the threads, i'm certainly taking everyones feedback postively, so thanks to all the posters. ya i always suspected clarks aura was what protected him and anyone, especially when he covers them, they never seem to get a scratch on them.

True!


my theory is that even though he's moving at superspeed, he can be so precise that he can transition his speed so that its like all he has to do is grab or catch them gently, like he slows down just before but so fast and smooth you don't even notice it, making it appear that he'd squash anyone on impact.

While it's a good theory, the human body of the person that he was saving/catching/whatever would still be subject to some serious G-Force. There was an argument about this on 'The Big Bang Theory' once lol :lol:.


i do think depending on the situation clark will go at whatever pace he wants, if he needs or wants to go faster he will. "something that travels at the speed of light, and something that can move up to the speed of light" are two very different statements, clark fits the 2nd statement much better, so in he's able to go at any speed, his superspeed isn't a constant like light itself. Clark on smallvillle though can move fast, no doubt about that...it would be nice to go back and use scenes to see if clark gradually gets faster throughout the seasons, or to get some other examples to calcuate out.

Yes, no doubt he can control how fast he can move, hard he can hit etc just like any other person. i.e. when he used to play football in high school.

I doubt though that we'll ever find out what his 'Top' speed is in Smallville. They're not too concerned with it. As someone else said, he'll move at the speed of Plot :D

[zorasuperman]

yes although this episode didnt have lois i felt it had a lot of superman-ish action; especially the part wehre clark says 'the moment i stop believing is the moment i stop trying or something to that extent