Lois wearing the Football Jersey [Archive] - KSiteTV Television & Movie Forums

DontCha

10-20-2008, 09:04 AM

I also thought it was a nod to Season 4 and it reminded me of when Chloe was wearing it in Devoted. Of all the clothes, his football jersey, from high school, was the only thing he could find for her to wear? I would like to know what the ptb were thinking when they decided to do that.:confused:

It wasnt the same jersey Chloe was wearing the practice jersey with white numbers and writing

Lois was wearing the winning game jersey which was shiny and yellow writing and numbers.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

I don't think that was pining at all...At least I didn't see it that way... I think she was still dealing with the aftermath of Maxima and how she reacted to seeing Maxima and Clark together which really surprised her. In that scene and when Clark brought up soul mates she started thinking about what Maxima said about their bond..And it kind of hit her suddenly...But I don't think it was 'Oh, I really love him blah blah blah.'
To me even from what we've seen in 'Committed'..I think Lois will be very 'deny deny deny' on her feelings for Clark for a while...Which I'm really excited about...Does that make sense?
But hey we all interpret things differently. To each her own :)

I think she knew she loved him by the end of Instinct, or at least she's accepted it instead of denying it. It was a sort of setup for the Committed question, where she knows the answer but sure as hell doesnt want him to know, hence all the stalling before answering. IMO

gotta love the continuity this season instead of it just coming out of nowhere in Commited lol

just my opinion though.

I dont particularly think she's pining for him either because she doesnt want him to know she loves him. She loves him but doesnt want to love him. Thats not pining.

cklookalike89

10-20-2008, 09:41 AM

Absolutely loved the scene!!! Thought it was really funny and loved every moment of it

morrigan01

10-20-2008, 10:11 AM

I don't think that was pining at all...At least I didn't see it that way... I think she was still dealing with the aftermath of Maxima and how she reacted to seeing Maxima and Clark together which really surprised her. In that scene and when Clark brought up soul mates she started thinking about what Maxima said about their bond..And it kind of hit her suddenly...But I don't think it was 'Oh, I really love him blah blah blah.'
To me even from what we've seen in 'Committed'..I think Lois will be very 'deny deny deny' on her feelings for Clark for a while...Which I'm really excited about...Does that make sense?
But hey we all interpret things differently. To each her own :)

Well said.

Lois is in lockdown mode about her feelings for Clark. She's not pining and she is NOT going to chase him at all. She's going to try and run away from her feelings for him, by denying how she feels about him and lying to herself and others, including Clark, about it.

Clark's going to have to convince her - at the end of all things - to be in a relationship with him, not the other way around.

Oh, and yeah, I'm a straight girl, but Lois did look good in that jersey. ;)

eas

10-21-2008, 08:47 AM

The sense I get is that PS3 are very deliberately trying to include continuity in S8... and part of that is to bring in references from past seasons. I think they want to show that they've been long enough that they remember early seasons & they like the nostalgia of it all.

With Clark's jersey, I felt that they were trying to do a few things: Show that, yes, they realize that Clark was once in high school and that football was important to him. It wouldn't make sense for Clark to go around wearing it, so they used this moment to do a 'flashback' real quick to THAT Clark Kent. Also, they got a triple whammy with it: (1) Lois looked hot; (2) It increased the sense of 'intimacy' between the two, so it made sense that Lois was afraid they slept together; (3) It's the Superman colors/said "Kent" on the back and so you got the foreshadowing.

I think that this is the same reason they brought back the "Fever" letter and We're getting the trip down Chloe's memory lane with the first Chlark kiss and other Chlark memories.

If a person also wants to be symbolic about it, then I guess the jersey can represent a couple of other things: Chloe wore the 'practice' jersey and Lois won the "game winning' jersey. Also, Clark gave the jersey Lois and didn't mind she was wearing it and Chloe, in "Devoted", wore it without his permission and he freaked out she was wearing it. Also, this scene was a great contrast to that scene and showed how mature and grown up Clark is now... back then, he almost had a hernia ("naked girl in my loft, naked girl in my loft, OH NO!!!") vs. now when Lois flat out asked him if they slept together and his response was to laugh, with no blush ("You're hilarious when you're hung-over, Lois." *throw her dress at her*).

So, I guess, they were smart to have her dress up in the jersey... works on a lot of different levels, I suppose.

And, then, later on, we get another shout-out to S4: Lois wears a red plaid shirt of Clark's... in "Gone" she did it without permission and Clark freaked out. Now, Lois does it with permission (because she needed something to wear as a jacket) and Clark/Lois share a scene that dripping with sexual overtones (like their shower scenes) and Clark holds his own... he's mature about it.

individuall

10-21-2008, 08:59 AM

^Very well said eas :)

I didn't even realize that it was supes colors (duh)..God I'm slow sometimes. Great foreshadowing!

stenochick

10-21-2008, 08:59 AM

What a fun discussion.

In the scene itself, I agree that Clark grabbed something oversized, without buttons, and no longer part of his wardrobe for Lois to change into and sleep in. I would not loan a drunk girl a work dress shirt. Also, he probably knew she took an hour to get dressed because he was probably patiently waiting with his head turned away for her to finish, thinking she could pass out or fall or break something, so he could go upstairs to bed himself.*

That is on the surface, however that choice of attire is dripping in symbolism, as everyone has already stated. The only addition I will make is that Lois is wrapped in a blue blanket, wearing a red jersey with yellow numbers and letters.

I liked the continuity back to highschool when they first met with the jersey and flannel shirt.

*I would love to see that scene in Offscreenville with Lois' Whitesnake sing-along.

RedKRules

10-21-2008, 09:04 AM

It was just another lack of creativity from the writers .... since it has been done before ...!

Dustmite

10-21-2008, 09:10 AM

It was just another lack of creavity from the writers .... since it has been done before ...!

:\

That's the second episode in a row where they've deliberately used something that was Chlark. I guess they find it amusing :rolleyes:

DontCha

10-21-2008, 09:17 AM

not exactly^^^its a different jersey, its the winning game jersey, chloe's was the practice jersey.

and BTW lois was the first one to wear one of clarks shirts not chloe Dustmite & RedK, She was the first one to be naked and wearing one of his shirts, not chloe. So one could easily say that when chloe wore one it was bad writing and copying. But i dont feel that way at all.

Also to add Stenochick, good catch on the blue cover, red and yellow jersey Superman colors

When she gets up, Clark is now wearing blue to complete the set.

RedKRules

10-21-2008, 09:21 AM

:\

That's the second episode in a row where they've deliberately used something that was Chlark. I guess they find it amusing :rolleyes:

Without mentioning that Chlark shot at the Daily :rolleyes: ... so what is going to be their next brillant copy cat??

stenochick

10-21-2008, 09:21 AM

:\

That's the second episode in a row where they've deliberately used something that was Chlark. I guess they find it amusing :rolleyes:

This is true. Last week they had the fever letter from season 2 and this week the practice jersey from season 4, both symbols of Chloe's unrequited feelings for Clark.

I think they have been trying to make the point for years now that Clark is just not attracted to Chloe as more than a friend. The problem is that they have had both Chloe and Clark give off mixed messages, and have made Chlark so emotionally intimate that we are not buying the Chimmy. I mean, if you were Chloe, would Jimmy Olsen be enough to dissolve all your feelings for Clark Kent?

If they are not going to make Jimmy a more "worthy" suitor for Chloe, then they need to introduce that George guy from Apocalypse into the show. The only way to really show that Chloe is over Clark is for some other really amazing guy, who also has the side benefit of being a human being, to sweep her off her feet.

George was symbolism for Clark/Superman: good-looking, sweet, and a hero (I believe he was a police officer). Bring the real George to Chloe and forget Jimmy Olsen and Davis Bloome. We're not buying it.

individuall

10-21-2008, 09:22 AM

So yes both girls have worn a jersey...But I honestly don't see how this is like the 'Chlark' moment at all..... It's a different jersey, a different scenario, a different context..Unless there was a eppy I missed where Chloe spent a drunken night at the Kent house and woke up the next day wearing Clark's jersey?
Chloe was drugged. She STOLE the Jersey. Clark freaked out a little (he was in his 'I'm afraid of anything with breasts' stage) and she came on to him.
Lois was drunk. Was given the jersey to wear. Didn't come on to Clark. It was a completely different scenario...So...

Also I could say it was a lack of creativity/rehash/stolen Clois moment when Lana wore one of Clark's old plaid shirts in 'Wrath.' But I don't (Some Cloisers may, but not me personally). Because it was a completely different context and shirt. And a totally different scenario from the Clois one. Just like the Clois/Chlark jersey scenes.
But then again that's just me. To each their own.. :/

RedKRules

10-21-2008, 09:22 AM

and BTW lois was the first one to wear one of clarks shirts not chloe Dustmite & RedK, so one could easily say that when chloe wore one it was bad writing and copying. But i dont feel that way at all.

Well I thought this thread was about Clark`s jersey football shirt .... not his average flannel ones! ;)

DontCha

10-21-2008, 09:25 AM

tariksam

10-21-2008, 09:29 AM

Yes the Jersey - Butttt - did anyone notice that she was wearing the same plaid shirt that she wore in the "shower" scene in season 4 when they went back to the talon ????

It was not the same, the shower one was gold and red (that she used on "Gone") this was red and more red

Ginx

10-21-2008, 09:29 AM

That's the second episode in a row where they've deliberately used something that was Chlark. I guess they find it amusing :rolleyes:

maybe it's not that they're finding it amusing as they are trying to build the character up and grow from his past to his present. For quite a while, Clark has been stuck in the past. People change and I think that whatever the jersey scene meant to you is what it meant to you. And maybe it's their subtle way of continuity (reference to the high school days) since SV has had complaints about that. They've been working in little things (lana's necklace, the SV jersey....)

I don't think it was a deliberate punch at any ship - it's just a cute girl in a guy's shirt (jersey's are comfortable and big, it would have been a good size shirt to grab for Lois to sleep in to keep covered). :)

individuall

10-21-2008, 09:30 AM

^I thought it was the same one...:(

I'll have to go back a look..Dang it! Oh, well it was still red :D

Hopefulsuicide

10-21-2008, 09:30 AM

i hope it doesnt symoblise that Chloe was Practice and Lois is the Real thing

kinda cheapens Chlark a bit

RedKRules

10-21-2008, 09:31 AM

yeah and Lois is actually wearing the winning game jersey RedK (complete with superman colors) She's not wearing the average practice jersey that doesnt mean as much to him. (which is the one Chloe is wearing)

The one chloe stole...but Clark gave Lois his winning game jersey to wear.

I get the sneaky suspicion that the writers are trying to tell you in a subtle way that Lois is engame no?

yeah right?! like he cared so much for it now ... he even said he was not into sports ..... I was like yeah another brillant lightswitch to his character!

Btw Clark didn`t mind when Chloe took it, he got his ... prize ;) ... well as usual dontcha we will have to agree to disagree .... :lol: ;)

The writers are showing me this season is LnC 2.0 :lol:

individuall

10-21-2008, 09:32 AM

Question? When did he say he wasn't into sports anymore? :confused:

Ginx

10-21-2008, 09:34 AM

i hope it doesnt symoblise that Chloe was Practice and Lois is the Real thing

kinda cheapens Chlark a bit

I doubt it means that - it might mean that to some people but I do not think the writers goal is to cheapen anything. :)

RedKRules

10-21-2008, 09:35 AM

Question? When did he say he wasn't into sports anymore? :confused:

a couple of episode before, I just can`t seem to remember which one ... but he said it ... I thought that was ODD as well ... go figure!! :confused::confused::\

tariksam

10-21-2008, 09:35 AM

So yes both girls have worn a jersey...But I honestly don't see how this is like the 'Chlark' moment at all.../
You kidding its totally a Chlark moment like the desk one that nobody can EVER sit in oppsite desks cause that was Chlark.

Conclusion, we are suppose to respect the "shallow" (a certain similarities on the visual) and forget the context of the scene (no pining in a football shirt, or actually working on the desk):rolleyes:

Dustmite

10-21-2008, 09:35 AM

Without mentioning that Chlark shot at the Daily :rolleyes: ... so what is going to be their next brillant copy cat??

I'm expecting them to deconstruct every Chlark moment there is over the course of the season.

I don't think it was a deliberate punch at any ship

I know I can be overly sensitive but in this case I feel I'm right, in fact I'm pretty sure of it. Tearing down one ship to build up another seems to be their MO this season.

You kidding its totally a Chlark moment like the desk one that nobody can EVER sit in oppsite desks cause that was Chlark.

I'm glad people are seeing the light.

stenochick

10-21-2008, 09:37 AM

i hope it doesnt symoblise that Chloe was Practice and Lois is the Real thing

kinda cheapens Chlark a bit

I think that is part of the subtext and it is not sitting right with people. But, Chloe chose to put on that practice jersey and hit on Clark, albeit while under a love potion.

Like I said before, it would be more dignified for Chlark and Chloe if they had a more Superman-like guy sweep Chloe off her feet to the point that she just laughs to herself at the thought that she ever threw herself at her best-friend who turned out to be alien from another galaxy.

All they had to do was write Jimmy as a really, really great guy that was sweet and chivalrous like Clark, and heroic in how he treats Chloe. Why they did not do this is beyond me.

eas

10-21-2008, 09:38 AM

individuall

10-21-2008, 09:39 AM

a couple of episode before, I just can`t seem to remember which one ... but he said it ... I thought that was ODD as well ... go figure!! :confused::confused::\

Really? I don't remember that at all...Huh...Well maybe he just has more important things to worry about than football now..I still think his game winning jersey would be kinda special to him just for nostalgic purposes..I know I still have momentos from things that I used to be into, but am now not. Even though I don't like that activity anymore the items are still special to me. Like the trophy I got when my team won the soccer championships in highschool...I don't play soccer anymore, but it's still makes me smile when I see the trophy on my desk.

ETA: sorry back on topic...Lois wearing the jersey...:)

tariksam

10-21-2008, 09:39 AM

Question? When did he say he wasn't into sports anymore? :confused:

In another show that clearly some people are watching, the only time he talked about sports was in Plastique and he was responding to Lois statement about Endorphins, he said that Sports are a reason of why they are high and then Lois brought the sex reason.

RedKRules

10-21-2008, 09:40 AM

I'm expecting them to deconstruct every Chlark moment there is over the course of the season.

I know I can be overly sensitive but in this case I feel I'm right, in fact I'm pretty sure of it. Tearing down one ship to build up another seems to be their MO this season.

I'm glad people are seeing the light.

ITA! :cool:

tariksam

10-21-2008, 09:42 AM

I'm glad people are seeing the light.
Thanks for the np tuck of my post for yor covinience....:D

I am having chlois proofs flashbacks....(not saying you are a chloiser)

Sorry it was too good to let it pass:rotfl:

Kalista

10-21-2008, 09:42 AM

Without mentioning that Chlark shot at the Daily :rolleyes: ... so what is going to be their next brillant copy cat??

Remember how Chloe got sucked into the FOS in Arrival? Well, now her cousin will be transported to the PZ with Clark in Bloodline.

RedKRules

10-21-2008, 09:42 AM

In another show that clearly some people are watching, the only time he talked about sports was in Plastique and he was responding to Lois statement about Endorphins, he said that Sports are a reason of why they are high and then Lois brought the sex reason.

That was not what he said ....but well carry on!:rolleyes:

individuall

10-21-2008, 09:44 AM

That was not what he said ....but well carry on!:rolleyes:

Yes. When Lois was talking about endorphins being released

Lois: endorphins are released when the body performs a certain activity..

Clark: like when you play a sport.

and Lois: Or theres another activity two people share...repetitive motion..Builds to a Climax...

Unless there's another moment from a different eppy I missed...Oh well, it doesn't really matter...

RedKRules

10-21-2008, 09:45 AM

Remember how Chloe got sucked into the FOS in Arrival? Well, now her cousin will be transported to the PZ with Clark in Bloodline.

:rotfl::rotfl: ( I can hear voices screaming in the background: copy cat! copy cat! copy cat! ) .... when I thought I couldn`t be surprised anymore !! :\

Storm45

10-21-2008, 09:45 AM

Perhaps they should have made Lois wear something totally different like some blue or red shirt instead of something that could be similar than what Chloe wore in a Chlark scene.

Just my 0.02 cents.

Jade4813

10-21-2008, 09:46 AM

Remember how Chloe got sucked into the FOS in Arrival? Well, now her cousin will be transported to the PZ with Clark in Bloodline.

And remember how Chloe and Clark were once shown walking down the street together? I have it on good authority we'll see Clark and Lois walk side by side in the future as well. ;)

individuall

10-21-2008, 09:47 AM

OK. The fortress and the PZ are two completely different things...I'll give you the jerseys are a little bit similar...But this is grasping at straws..Sorry. That is NOT rehashing a Chlark moment at all...

Jade4813

10-21-2008, 09:47 AM

a couple of episode before, I just can`t seem to remember which one ... but he said it ... I thought that was ODD as well ... go figure!! :confused::confused::\

I saw a couple people mention that, but I haven't been able to find it. Any chance you can point me in the right direction? I'm trying to find the quote.

Kalista

10-21-2008, 09:48 AM

DontCha

10-21-2008, 09:49 AM

yeah right?! like he cared so much for it now ... he even said he was not into sports ..... I was like yeah another brillant lightswitch to his character!

Btw Clark didn`t mind when Chloe took it, he got his ... prize ;) ... well as usual dontcha we will have to agree to disagree .... :lol: ;)

The writers are showing me this season is LnC 2.0 :lol:

;) you know im only mesin with ya dont you? I dont mean any foul play.

yep it is..LnC 2.0 which is cool.

To be honest i dont think the Jersey means much to the plot, only that its the prize winning jersey and that its the superman colors. Its more of an anvil to the future rather than symbolic to whats happening right now between the 2.

Dustmite

10-21-2008, 09:49 AM

Perhaps they should have made Lois wear something totally different like some blue or red shirt instead of something that could be similar than what Chloe wore in a Chlark scene.

Just my 0.02 cents.

[MOD EDIT]

And remember how Chloe and Clark were once shown walking down the street together? I have it on good authority we'll see Clark and Lois walk side by side in the future as well.

It's already happened in the last episode. It'll come as no suprise to anyone that I found the Chlark street walk sexier.

SupaBoy

10-21-2008, 09:50 AM

I liked how they did this actually!

It resembles boyfriends and girlfriends usually the females wearing their partners jumpers and i think it was a good idea:)l

tariksam

10-21-2008, 09:52 AM

I saw a couple people mention that, but I haven't been able to find it. Any chance you can point me in the right direction? I'm trying to find the quote.

We already did and even transcripts were posted but once again facts are ignored, you should get us to it

I mean how you go from "Endorphins are caused for sports too" to "I am not into sports"? its really beyond me

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

To be honest i dont think the Jersey means much to the plot, only that its the prize winning jersey and that its the superman colors. Its more of an anvil than symbolic to whats happening right now between the 2.

From "simple" to simply "Super":rotfl:

Storm45

10-21-2008, 09:55 AM

Its weird, I'm not a shipper but I understand how we can be sensitive over our ship and hold onto these special moments. Chlark may not be my cup of tea but this season I kinda of understand the anger (it might be a strong word) over how things are handled.

If they are not doing anything with Chlark they should not only leave it alone and also let the Chlark moments being simply good memories for Chlarkers. Without rehashing them for other ships.

Paty26

10-21-2008, 09:57 AM

From "simple" to simply "Super":rotfl:

ABSOLUTELY!

eas

10-21-2008, 09:57 AM

maybe it's not that they're finding it amusing as they are trying to build the character up and grow from his past to his present. For quite a while, Clark has been stuck in the past. People change and I think that whatever the jersey scene meant to you is what it meant to you. And maybe it's their subtle way of continuity (reference to the high school days) since SV has had complaints about that. They've been working in little things (lana's necklace, the SV jersey....)

I don't think it was a deliberate punch at any ship - it's just a cute girl in a guy's shirt (jersey's are comfortable and big, it would have been a good size shirt to grab for Lois to sleep in to keep covered). :)

Yes, I agree. I don't think this was a deliberate attempt to recycle an old scene or to punch the Chlark ship or anything.

I think that was added in to further underscore Clark's development and the changes in his attitude since his high school days. He's more mature and able to handle these sorts of situations now.

Jade4813

10-21-2008, 09:58 AM

It's already happened in the last episode. It'll come as no suprise to anyone that I found the Chlark street walk sexier.

:rotfl::rotfl:

Good one, Dustmite!

Ginx

10-21-2008, 10:08 AM

MOD NOTE: Just a reminder to not bash other people's ships. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you disagree, please be respectful in your response and leave emotions at the door.

10) DISCUSSION ON THIS BOARD SHOULD AT ALL TIMES BE ABOUT THE SHOWS THEMSELVES OR THE FORUM TOPIC AT HAND.. To that end the following threads or discussions are strictly prohibited:
- Insulting fans of a character, ship, or differing viewpoint, including couched insults hidden behind jokes, sarcasm, silly banter, or Emoticons
- Psychoanalyzing other fans or posters views, which includes any remarks regarding another members frame of mind or sanity. At ABSOLUTELY NO time is it appropriate to tell another poster that they are in denial or delusional

Thanks

Jade4813

10-21-2008, 10:08 AM

If they are not doing anything with Chlark they should not only leave it alone and also let the Chlark moments being simply good memories for Chlarkers. Without rehashing them for other ships.

With things like the Fever letter, ITA. With things like Clark's jersey...well, I get why Chlarkers would be mad, but I also see that it's entirely possible - even probable - that in their minds, they connect the jerseys to Clark (having been shown to wear them far, far more) than they do with Chlark. It's like I don't think they're thinking of Chloe being dragged to the Fortress when they plan to have ]Lois and Clark taken to the PZ.

There are moments that ships think of as "their" moments that I think those on the show just don't think of that way.

Again, it's like the shirts thing. A lot of Cloisers were upset when Lana was shown wearing a (different) plaid shirt in "Wrath" but I think the PTB were just looking at it as Lana wearing one of Clark's shirts, rather than Lana taking something that had belonged to "Clois."

Similarly, here, I could see TPTB thinking of the jersey as being something of CLARK'S, not Chlark's. He wore it a lot, it was his jersey, it meant a lot to him.

I think it would be absolutely impossible for them to avoid using anything that a 'ship has claimed as their own. Particularly since, as was just argued, these connections, like the PZ/FoS dragging, can be tenuous at best. REALLY not the same things, REALLY not the same contexts, REALLY not the same at all but, for some, close enough.

Things like the "Fever" letter, they should leave alone because that's a big deal to Chlarkers and there's nothing else that letter could have been representative of and no character it would have been better or more likely tied to than Chlark.

Things like the jersey...I don't know. I think to TPTB there are some times that a jersey is a throwback to a Chlark scene and some times that it's just a shirt Clark used to wear a lot that meant something to him.

In order for TPTB to keep from being accused of "stealing" any thing from one ship to give it to another, they'd have to cancel the show. After all, if at this point, Clark declared his love towards Chloe or Lois, he'd be "stealing" a Clana scene. If he told Chloe he knew she was with another man but he'd realized he loved her; if he begged her not to marry Jimmy; if he declared he wanted to be with her instead... he'd DEFINITELY be "stealing" from Clana. *shudder* Wouldn't matter if the contexts were different, the scenes were different, the background was different. Some people would scream, "Clana did it first and did it better!" :lol:

Some things are obvious, like the "Fever" letter. And some things, I think we as shippers have to recognize, are special only to our ship and the members in it. TPTB may not recognize it as being a "ship" thing and so those things very well might get "reused" according to some, just because to TPTB the thing in question had an entirely different non-shippy meaning.

Only way to avoid it is to cancel the show. Several years ago, actually, as I'm sure if we got a Clanaer in here, they'd be able to pick out more than one scene they consider Chlark to have "stolen" from Clana over time.

Ginx

10-21-2008, 10:11 AM

It might be possible that the writers are trying to introduce things from Clark's past to give closure to all other past relationships to show that Clark is moving on. While everyone might not like the references to the past, I'm sure they have a purpose in mind and we will see the end progression eventually.

eas

10-21-2008, 10:14 AM

That was not what he said ....but well carry on!:rolleyes:

Tariksam is right... he never said he wasn't into sports. In fact, the very fact that he makes the connection that engaging in sports will increase endorphins shows that he is a sports player... his mind immediately goes there and he uses that example.

meteor

10-21-2008, 10:15 AM

eas

10-21-2008, 10:15 AM

It's already happened in the last episode. It'll come as no suprise to anyone that I found the Chlark street walk sexier.

LOL...

You are joking, right?

Jade4813

10-21-2008, 10:17 AM

LOL...

You are joking, right?

I hope so, or my last comment will sound mean and sarcastic when it wasn't meant to be. :\

eas

10-21-2008, 10:18 AM

With things like the Fever letter, ITA. With things like Clark's jersey...well, I get why Chlarkers would be mad, but I also see that it's entirely possible - even probable - that in their minds, they connect the jerseys to Clark (having been shown to wear them far, far more) than they do with Chlark. It's like I don't think they're thinking of Chloe being dragged to the Fortress when they plan to have ]Lois and Clark taken to the PZ.

There are moments that ships think of as "their" moments that I think those on the show just don't think of that way.

Again, it's like the shirts thing. A lot of Cloisers were upset when Lana was shown wearing a (different) plaid shirt in "Wrath" but I think the PTB were just looking at it as Lana wearing one of Clark's shirts, rather than Lana taking something that had belonged to "Clois."

Similarly, here, I could see TPTB thinking of the jersey as being something of CLARK'S, not Chlark's. He wore it a lot, it was his jersey, it meant a lot to him.

I think it would be absolutely impossible for them to avoid using anything that a 'ship has claimed as their own. Particularly since, as was just argued, these connections, like the PZ/FoS dragging, can be tenuous at best. REALLY not the same things, REALLY not the same contexts, REALLY not the same at all but, for some, close enough..

I agree.

I think that - after 8 seasons - we just all have to deal with the fact that Clark will have moments with Lois that are similar to moments he's had with Lana and Chloe. Sometimes, I think it'll be deliberate on the part of the writers (to show the contrast between Clark's wife and the women he's known before) and - other times - it'll just be a coincidence.

When it comes to little things - like how they walk together, sit on each other's desks, or talk to each other in the loft (a Clana staple) are all just part and parcel of Clark's normal, everyday, activities. I cannot see them as copying it to have Lois share scenes like that with Clark.

The "Fever" letter, though... yeah, that was wrong on a lot of levels.

Ginx

10-21-2008, 10:19 AM

i think it was just an honest attempt to accentuate the development of Clark-Lois, not any kind of shipping war thing..giving a woman your jersey to wear i think does have some significance when it comes to mating ritualism.

I agree. Except I would refer to it as 'courting' as opposed to 'mating ritualism' ;)

A jersey is a big relaxing shirt that Lois would be comfortable in......

SueB

10-21-2008, 10:27 AM

Actually, I thought it would be the only thing that would cover her entire body and not require actual use of buttons --- it apparently took an hour just to get that on anyway in her condition.

I didn't read it as an anti-Chlark (but totally get where they are coming from). Lois needed clothes, a T-shirt is too short, buttons were out of the question, and the jersey makes sense.

meteor

10-21-2008, 11:08 AM

I agree. Except I would refer to it as 'courting' as opposed to 'mating ritualism' ;)

i take it you feel the latter term needs a it more romance and a bit less behavioral biology:lol:

when Lois starts wearing Clark's football jersey though, safe to say it's not because she'll be trying out for the SV High Crows anytime soon, but points to another step in the unfolding of the canonic tale that has many salivating at the direction of the show this year. it's been a while since this many people on the board were this excited about the show, and personally i find it a mite refreshing.:)

Ginx

10-21-2008, 11:11 AM

i take it you feel the latter term needs a it more romance and a bit less behavioral biology:lol:

it's been a while since this many people on the board were this excited about the show, and personally i find it a mite refreshing.:)

Just keeping it 'clean' for the sake of all audiences :)

Dustmite

10-21-2008, 12:01 PM

baudyhallee

10-21-2008, 12:02 PM

RedKRules

10-21-2008, 12:05 PM

It's not too much to ask, is it?

It shouldn´t be .... such an easy task isn´t it? :\:\

Kalista

10-21-2008, 12:13 PM

It shouldn´t be .... such an easy task isn´t it? :\:\

If the situation were reversed, I wouldn't be happy about it. If they had Chlark kissing under an oaktree, running the meadow, or riding horses, I would be turned off. Those are special Clana moments that don't need to be replicated.

But then again, I could rationalize about the difference in the bark of the tree, the health of the grass in the meadow, or the breed of horses and conclude that the scenes really are not related at all.

SnowBird

10-21-2008, 12:13 PM

I thought the jersey was a little more than just a comfortable piece of clothing. Maybe he thought if she got sick in it -- it wouldn't stain or something. BUT, correct me if I'm wrong. Most of the jocks I knew and know think its a big deal when they give their jersey to some girl to wear. It's like marking her -- she's mine. The other thing that is interesting. I went back and watched JINXED -- the championship game where Clark wore the jersey. The other shirt he wore in that episode was the one he gave Lois to wear over her dress. It's the same one he wore on his first day to the DP. Lois wasn't even in JINXED.

Subconsciously or whatever Clark is marking Lois as his. And Lois in the comics is always wearing something of Clark's. It's what people do.

Good points that I hadn't thought of before. The writters are on the ball with using Clark's shirt/jersey of the past to show how he cares for Lois. Now if Clark realizes what he has done...LOL

geminis

10-21-2008, 01:54 PM

I agree. Except I would refer to it as 'courting' as opposed to 'mating ritualism' ;)

A jersey is a big relaxing shirt that Lois would be comfortable in......

Bringing a little behavioral biology into it, sorry: not only would she be comfortable, but she was pretty darn hot; and that's from a straight girl.:lol:

----- Added 14 Minutes later -----

I thought the jersey was a little more than just a comfortable piece of clothing. Maybe he thought if she got sick in it -- it wouldn't stain or something. BUT, correct me if I'm wrong. Most of the jocks I knew and know think its a big deal when they give their jersey to some girl to wear. It's like marking her -- she's mine. The other thing that is interesting. I went back and watched JINXED -- the championship game where Clark wore the jersey. The other shirt he wore in that episode was the one he gave Lois to wear over her dress. It's the same one he wore on his first day to the DP. Lois wasn't even in JINXED.

Subconsciously or whatever Clark is marking Lois as his. And Lois in the comics is always wearing something of Clark's. It's what people do.

Oh yes; it's what couples and family do.

I have to admit I was bothered by Lana wearing his shirt in Wrath; not so much by Chloe wearing Clark's jersey. It was cute on her but unfortunate that Clark was bothered by it. Lana however, was allowed to use his shirt, like Lois in Committed. But I'm also adult enough to enjoy seeing all three of them in Clark's shirts. That is definitely a girl thing; stealing/borrowing their man's shirt for whatever reason. I'm jealous of all of them for getting to wear his clothes.:o

Kalista

10-21-2008, 02:19 PM

But I'm also adult enough to enjoy seeing all three of them in Clark's shirts.

I don't see anyone complaining about the ladies wearing Clark's shirts in general. The comments center on the obvious similarities between Chloe and her cousin as they wore one of Clark's jersey's. So, it's not really an issue of being "adult enough" to handle the women in Clark's shirts.

Kal-ed

10-21-2008, 02:30 PM

And remember how Chloe and Clark were once shown walking down the street together? I have it on good authority we'll see Clark and Lois walk side by side in the future as well. ;)

Clark and Lois should talk in sign language from now on, Lois should wear a generic gold-gray suit and they shall not meet in The DP, farm, Talon, Car, Shuster Gorge, Oak Tree, Luthor mansion, Smallville High, the benches near the football field. Heck why dont we just have them always meeting, at a new set called the black room, to avoid any conections to the past, I mean gawd forbid I take my new girlfriend to the movies near my houce cause OMG! how dare I desecrate the memory of my exgirlfriend by taking the new one to the same theater.

I know its a hyperbole and that its ridiculous but lets be honest if we are really going to base our arguments with the same Logic, Clark and Lois cant have a normal relationship at all, look Clark´s been through a lot with Chloe, she´s been his best friend for years and Lana the love of his life, so if we ad up everything he´s done with both girls, there´s very litte that Clois can do without it being a "SORT OF" imitation of something that sort of happened with Chloe or Lana.

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----

I don't see anyone complaining about the ladies wearing Clark's shirts in general. The comments center on the obvious similarities between Chloe and her cousin as they wore one of Clark's jersey's. So, it's not really an issue of being "adult enough" to handle the women in Clark's shirts.

Its about realizing that not everything is meant to be a conspiracy, have you taken in acount that maybe the particular props guy, or the writter, or who ever decided Lois would be wearing that shirt, didnt recall that scene from Devoted?? Or maybe that TPTB do remember but dont consider it a pivotal Chlark moment, perhaps they wanted (all Chloe aside) to have Lois wear Clark´s football yersey so a romantic undertone could be forshadowed and didnt think it would feel like they were personally attacking Chlark.

I agree about the fever letter, it was something that couldnt be linked to anyone else, it was evident it was using a Chlark moment for Clana and Clois purposes, how ever I dont think it was intentional, at least not meant to "screw" Chlark fans. But this is so general im finding it hard to debat about it, I didnt even remember Chloe wore that 4 seasons ago, untill someone brought it up, I though they were doing the classic show Lois in a red/yellow atire, forshadowing Clois.

Mr.Magic

10-21-2008, 02:50 PM

Kalista

10-21-2008, 02:52 PM

Its about realizing that not everything is meant to be a conspiracy, have you taken in acount that maybe the particular props guy, or the writter, or who ever decided Lois would be wearing that shirt, didnt recall that scene from Devoted??

Who said that "everything" is a conspiracy?

So, they couldn't remember that Chloe wore a jersey in season four but they remembered to put Edlois in the same flannel shirt she wore with Clark in the shower scene?

Or maybe that TPTB do remember but dont consider it a pivotal Chlark moment, perhaps they wanted (all Chloe aside) to have Lois wear Clark´s football yersey so a romantic undertone could be forshadowed and didnt think it would feel like they were personally attacking Chlark.

Okay, why not just put her in the flannel shirt she wore later in the episode or one of Clark's new snazzy button dress shirts. How about the cape that Rachel gave him in Action with yellow and blue pillows on the couch?

They put alot of thought into these things. It can't be both way either. A person can't say that it's silly to think that this was a ripoff of the Devoted scene because the wardrobe people or the writers probably don't remember and yet claim that in other instances they are deliberately using colors, symbolism, etc to prop up a particular ship.

Mr.Magic

10-21-2008, 02:55 PM

@Kalista

Do you really think the scene between Clark and Chloe in Devoted was pro Chlark? She came on to him. He refused. -30-

cdpittenger

10-21-2008, 03:27 PM

I think the reuse of the jersey and other Chlark moments with Lois is just a way for the writers to tie up loose ends. The similar moments with Lois are more emphasized (practice vs. game jersey etc.) to show that Lois is more of a real romance instead of a high school crush like Chloe. Some Chlarkers are just a little sad to see their light at the end of the tunnel disappear. Or maybe we're all just reading too much into things...

BULLITT

10-21-2008, 03:40 PM

^It was a different jersey than what Chloe wore though. I think she wore his regular/or practice jersey..Wasn't it was all red?

Correct.

Kal-ed

10-21-2008, 03:40 PM

Who said that "everything" is a conspiracy?

So, they couldn't remember that Chloe wore a jersey in season four but they remembered to put Edlois in the same flannel shirt she wore with Clark in the shower scene?

Its not about remembering or not, its about what you are remembering, if you ask me how should I dress Clark to mimick what he wore in Comencement I remember the red jacket blue shirt, it doesnt mean, images of all the clothe´s he´s wore in the episodes sorrounding that one are clear in my mind, Id have to individually recollect what he was wearing. So its not that its been forgotten that Chloe wore a football jersey, its that while constructing that particular scene, no one thought about that particular moment.

Okay, why not just put her in the flannel shirt she wore later in the episode or one of Clark's new snazzy button dress shirts. How about the cape that Rachel gave him in Action with yellow and blue pillows on the couch?

they wanted her with the football jersey specifically, doesnt mean they were out to desecrate Chlark, again maybe the thought didint even cross their mind.

They put alot of thought into these things. It can't be both way either. A person can't say that it's silly to think that this was a ripoff of the Devoted scene because the wardrobe people or the writers probably don't remember and yet claim that in other instances they are deliberately using colors, symbolism, etc to prop up a particular ship

Yes it can be both ways, again, I can try to mimick, Clark´s wardrobe when he first met Lois, but that doesnt mean what Chloe was wearing when she met Clark will automatically come to mind, see its about what your putting thought into, which is exactly my point, they probably never thought about Chloe´s scene in Devoted, its not that they dont put thought in the scenes, its that they use specific thoughts, they were focused on Lois and Clois and Chloe never came up.

Québec

10-21-2008, 03:41 PM

Dayum! Lois was so hot in that scene!

Genny

10-21-2008, 03:49 PM

I'm kind of wondering if maybe her wearing the red and yellow jersey is like a nod to or reference to the infampous picture of Terri Hatcher wearing the red and yellow Superman cape from Lois and Clark. If you remember they did a reference to it in season 4 with Clark naked wearing the red blanket when Lois brought him to the hospital, so maybe this is the same sort of thing. That's what I think, because the writer's of Smallville always try to slip little references into the show about them. I could be wrong but I'm just throwing the idea out there.

Kal-ed

10-21-2008, 03:51 PM

Dustmite

10-21-2008, 03:53 PM

Jade4813

10-21-2008, 07:17 PM

If the situation were reversed, I wouldn't be happy about it. If they had Chlark kissing under an oaktree, running the meadow, or riding horses, I would be turned off. Those are special Clana moments that don't need to be replicated.

But then again, I could rationalize about the difference in the bark of the tree, the health of the grass in the meadow, or the breed of horses and conclude that the scenes really are not related at all.

Or you could decide that every similar scene is stealing from its earlier counterpoint. The Chlark seduction scene in "Devoted" stole from Clana seduction in "Nicodemus." Similar enough. Chlark hospital scene in "Arctic" from the Clana hospital scenes leading up to the finale. And the death scene in "Odyssey" DEFINITeLY was taken from "Hidden." I hope nobody thought these were special for Chlark. They were all stolen from Clana. By this logic, at least.

abbaspice1

10-21-2008, 07:36 PM

What is the BIG deal?

IT wasn't the same jersey...

It wasn't the same situation....

And CLARK decided to give Lois the jersey.

If you look for a conspiracy, you will eventually find one....

borednow

10-21-2008, 07:40 PM

abbaspice1

10-21-2008, 07:42 PM

BTW, a jersey makes sense...

She couldn't handle buttons...

T-shirts would have been too small (not that I would have not enjoyed that)

BTW, do we really want to go the route of saying that Chloe did it first....

Because one can say that the 'desk' scene is STRAIGHT from the Superman comics, movies, etc. where Clark and Lois Lane worked together.

But I don't think people want to go there.

Alexander III

10-21-2008, 08:00 PM

Really? I missed it I guess, all I focused on was how hot she was in a football jersey, so so HOT w/ no pants on....$WEET!!

Fallen One

10-21-2008, 08:11 PM

I thought the jersey was a little more than just a comfortable piece of clothing. Maybe he thought if she got sick in it -- it wouldn't stain or something. BUT, correct me if I'm wrong. Most of the jocks I knew and know think its a big deal when they give their jersey to some girl to wear. It's like marking her -- she's mine. The other thing that is interesting. I went back and watched JINXED -- the championship game where Clark wore the jersey. The other shirt he wore in that episode was the one he gave Lois to wear over her dress. It's the same one he wore on his first day to the DP. Lois wasn't even in JINXED.

Subconsciously or whatever Clark is marking Lois as his. And Lois in the comics is always wearing something of Clark's. It's what people do.

Bingo. It was all about symbolism and anvils.

On the show and in his life, Lana was Clark's practice. Clark could have given Lois any jersey he had, but he willingly gave her the championship one. This was an intentional move on the writers part I think. As you said, Clark is subcousciously choosing Lois. She is his soulmate, the very best he can do. The scene symbolizes this.

Genny

10-21-2008, 08:39 PM

I still say it's a reference to Lois and Clark pic of Terri Hatcher wearing just the Superman cape like I said in my last post. Think about it, Superman's cape is red with the yellow superman shield, Clark's jersey is red and yellow. Read my last post, it probably makes more sense then this one. It's on page 5.

geminis

10-21-2008, 09:15 PM

I don't see anyone complaining about the ladies wearing Clark's shirts in general. The comments center on the obvious similarities between Chloe and her cousin as they wore one of Clark's jersey's. So, it's not really an issue of being "adult enough" to handle the women in Clark's shirts.

Okay, I can see how people might have taken offense at how I worded my personal reaction; wasn't trying to say anybody else wasn't adult enough. Just me, trying to tell myself to be an adult and not be green with envy that all three, Lois, Chloe and Lana all have had the opportunity to rifle through Clark's wardrobe and don his manly attire. My apologies. My emotions aren't so strong regarding the similarity of Lois and Chloe sharing the spotlight in one of Clark's football jerseys, practice or championship, everyday or special, borrowed or given. It doesn't upset me or bother me personally. Neither upstaged the other in my mind. They, like the jerseys, are two completely different people, and they had completely different experiences.

I just wanted to say that me, myself and I personally had a brief moment where, when I (wrathfully) saw Lana come down the stairs in Clark's plaid, I saw green. In two shades. One envious, one sick. For me, Chloe wearing Clark's absconded jersey was super cute; Lois, in Clark's loaned jersey was super hot. Okay, maybe I can't be adult because I can't believe it, but I'm admitting jealousy of a piece of cloth. :o

Genny, I LOVE your referencing the Superman cape and comparing it to Clark's jersey. Kudos to you!

zHeN_zHeN

10-22-2008, 12:04 AM

I think Lois wearing Clark's jersey was just simple foreshadowing and had really nothing to do with Lana or Chloe.

Subconsciously or whatever Clark is marking Lois as his.

Ha, you are so right! I never thought of it like that! :D

Imzadia

10-22-2008, 01:18 AM

I LOVED that Lois woke up at the Kent farm. IMO, it was so cute that she was wearing Clark's SHS football jersey, too. However, 'Cage', and 'individuall', I have to disagree with you about Clark's plaid shirt that Lois was wearing. It's NOT the same shirt from "Gone". The shirt Lois had on for the 'shower scene' in "Gone" had BOLD yellow/gold stripes in the design, because it was the same shirt he'd worn in S3's "Perry". The shirt Lois wore over her dress at the Talon apt. is the same shirt Clark wore when he showed up to work on his First Day at the DP in "Plastique". It's still a shirt he's worn many, many times, though.

individuall

10-22-2008, 01:21 AM

^Yeah tariksam pointed that out to me a few pages back...I was a little upset...But hey the shirt is still red...It was also the same shirt he wore in 'Jinx' I believe someone pointed out...Which ironically is also the eppy he wore his Championship Jersey too...:D

Kal-ed

10-22-2008, 01:48 AM

Or you could decide that every similar scene is stealing from its earlier counterpoint. The Chlark seduction scene in "Devoted" stole from Clana seduction in "Nicodemus." Similar enough. Chlark hospital scene in "Arctic" from the Clana hospital scenes leading up to the finale. And the death scene in "Odyssey" DEFINITeLY was taken from "Hidden." I hope nobody thought these were special for Chlark. They were all stolen from Clana. By this logic, at least.

Thank you Jade for an irrefutable argument.

Anyhow, back to subject, dont you just LOVE that Clark gave that jersey to Lois?? It was a great scene and Lois looked really hawt in that jersey, somehow I see that Jersey coming back before the series ends.

FlashInSV

10-22-2008, 04:59 AM

I absolutely LOVED Lois' reaction when she realised her choice of clothing. She went like "WHY am I in your football jersey??!!" hahaha so cute!

LovelyLoisLane

10-22-2008, 05:10 AM

^It was a different jersey than what Chloe wore though. I think she wore his regular/or practice jersey..Wasn't it was all red?

Yeah they were different.

Chloe
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/KaraStarbuckNY/Smallville%20TV/ChloeJersey.jpg

Lois

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/KaraStarbuckNY/Smallville%20TV/LoisJersey.jpg

I'm not on the up and up when it comes to guys with their highschool football uniforms, I was just the cheerleader, but I think Chloe was wearing the regular practice jersey Clark just got and Lois was wearing the state championship jersey that Clark got later on in his short lived football career.

Also the difference being that Chloe put his jersey on as a means of seducing Clark and Lois was likely given the jersey by Clark, and put it on to wear to bed.

I do remember Clois fans being upset though when Lana was wearing one of Clark's plaid shirts, like Lois did in Gone and even had a similar scene of her and Clark standing next to eachother explaining themselves in front of the Kents. Though in the Clana case they really had done something and in the Clois case it was just seperate showers.

And Lois looked better in the plaid shirt anyway. :P

I didn't really care and I still don't. Different jersey, different scene and I'm not complaining, especially when Lois swung those long delicious legs out from under the blanket. *whistles* Yummy yummy.

I did see the LuthorCorp insignia on the jersey as well. Nice nod to Lex.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

Anyhow, back to subject, dont you just LOVE that Clark gave that jersey to Lois?? It was a great scene and Lois looked really hawt in that jersey, somehow I see that Jersey coming back before the series ends.

She did look really, really, really, REALLY hot in it. I agree ;)

I'm also glad I'm not the only one that thinks Clark gave her that jersey, I mean it had no buttons for her jumbled mind to try and button up, and it still took her an hour to change. Though I think that is when she snuck a call to cousin Chloe to tell her how sweet Clark was.

DontCha

10-22-2008, 07:29 AM

clarks in "the big leagues now": Lois winning game jersey

not the game practices: Chloe, practice jersey

and I agree the situations were very different.

and I didnt get upset seeing Lana in aa Plaid shirt because the situation was different too.

----- Added 8 Minutes later -----

created by Manu on DI

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w166/Clois_album/Banners/Clois/mixed/P05.png

eas

10-22-2008, 07:51 AM

Clark and Lois should talk in sign language from now on, Lois should wear a generic gold-gray suit and they shall not meet in The DP, farm, Talon, Car, Shuster Gorge, Oak Tree, Luthor mansion, Smallville High, the benches near the football field. Heck why dont we just have them always meeting, at a new set called the black room, to avoid any conections to the past, I mean gawd forbid I take my new girlfriend to the movies near my houce cause OMG! how dare I desecrate the memory of my exgirlfriend by taking the new one to the same theater.

I know its a hyperbole and that its ridiculous but lets be honest if we are really going to base our arguments with the same Logic, Clark and Lois cant have a normal relationship at all, look Clark´s been through a lot with Chloe, she´s been his best friend for years and Lana the love of his life, so if we ad up everything he´s done with both girls, there´s very litte that Clois can do without it being a "SORT OF" imitation of something that sort of happened with Chloe or Lana.

Thank you. ITA. Like I said before, there will be similarities between what goes on with Lois/Clark between what happened with Lana/Clark & Chloe/Clark because this is the 8th season of a TV show.

They're using the same sets and the same props. And, no, I don't think that Chlark has some sort of romantic copyright on walking down the street together or talking together at desk. If that's the case, then my co-workers and I have cheated behind my husband's back for decades. :eek:

Its about realizing that not everything is meant to be a conspiracy, have you taken in acount that maybe the particular props guy, or the writter, or who ever decided Lois would be wearing that shirt, didnt recall that scene from Devoted?? Or maybe that TPTB do remember but dont consider it a pivotal Chlark moment, perhaps they wanted (all Chloe aside) to have Lois wear Clark´s football yersey so a romantic undertone could be forshadowed and didnt think it would feel like they were personally attacking Chlark.

I agree about the fever letter, it was something that couldnt be linked to anyone else, it was evident it was using a Chlark moment for Clana and Clois purposes, how ever I dont think it was intentional, at least not meant to "screw" Chlark fans. But this is so general im finding it hard to debat about it, I didnt even remember Chloe wore that 4 seasons ago, untill someone brought it up, I though they were doing the classic show Lois in a red/yellow atire, forshadowing Clois.

I agree. Not everything this season is some targeted conspiracy against Chlark & in some cases, it's starting to look like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Meaning: If you keep looking for it, you're going to find it. But it doesn't mean that it was meant to be there.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

Who said that "everything" is a conspiracy?

So, they couldn't remember that Chloe wore a jersey in season four but they remembered to put Edlois in the same flannel shirt she wore with Clark in the shower scene?

It wasn't the same flannel shirt.

----- Added 9 Minutes later -----

Okay, why not just put her in the flannel shirt she wore later in the episode or one of Clark's new snazzy button dress shirts. How about the cape that Rachel gave him in Action with yellow and blue pillows on the couch?

They put alot of thought into these things. It can't be both way either. A person can't say that it's silly to think that this was a ripoff of the Devoted scene because the wardrobe people or the writers probably don't remember and yet claim that in other instances they are deliberately using colors, symbolism, etc to prop up a particular ship.

To be honest, I think they did put thought into it, and perhaps they did remember Chloe's choice from "Devoted". However, I don't think that they realized that it was a "special" Chlark moment that had to be spit on. "Devoted" was not an episode that was good for Chlark at all... so I'm at a loss to understand why it's a sacred Chlark moment. She stole his shirt and he wanted her to get away. He hated that she was wearing it and was deeply uncomfortable. The whole episode, he wanted Chloe to stop coming after him and even told LOIS to help keep her away. It was Lois who hunted down the culprits and made Clark help her get Chloe to normal. That was a terrible episode for Chlark.

This is in direct contrast to Clark of S8, who gives the jersey to a naked Lois voluntarily and jokes around with her while she's wearing it. He voluntarily takes care of Lois (holding her hair while she gets sick all night long) and he continues to follow her around afterwards -- he doesn't just drop her off at the Talon, but he actually walks her up to her apartment. Clearly, this isn't something that Lois is foisting on him (a direct contrast to Chloe of S4) because she's embarrassed and trying to get away from him at the farm. He also gives her his plaid shirt, so she can be warmer... again, something he does voluntarily which is a direct contrast to Clark of S4 with LOIS -- she stole a shirt from him and they had a shower scene where he freaked out and was mad at her. Now, they share another moment where she's in a plaid shirt & there are sexual overtones and he holds his own... no freaking out.

I'm sure that TPTB put thought into these scenes - to contrast S4Clark with S8Clark. Our boy is no longer a boy -- he's grown up and more mature & can handle being with a semi-dressed girl and not run screaming "cooties!!" at the top of his lungs. It's all about Clark - not Chlark or Chloe. And since this series supposed to be about Clark, then I see that as a good thing.

And, again, "Devoted" was one of the worst roma Chlark episodes I've ever seen... Chloe looked pathetic and Clark looked like he hated her. It wouldn't take much to desecrate Chlark, imo, if "Devoted" is the standard.

----- Added 14 Minutes later -----

I still say it's a reference to Lois and Clark pic of Terri Hatcher wearing just the Superman cape like I said in my last post. Think about it, Superman's cape is red with the yellow superman shield, Clark's jersey is red and yellow. Read my last post, it probably makes more sense then this one. It's on page 5.

Yeah, I agree... also, it's not just THLois... the comics Lois is constantly wearing Clark's shirts when she wakes up. Also, there's a famous picture of Lois wearing a tattered cape of Clark's.... I'll see if I can find a scan somewhere.

I definitely think it was deliberate that they wanted Lois to wake up in something that belonged to Clark. They also took it one step further and made is Superman colors and a shirt that had "Kent" on it -- to foreshadow that she'll be a Kent one day. :) It also gave them a great chance to show Clark's development, how he views Lois, and an added bonus - Durance looked damn hot in it.

SueB

10-22-2008, 08:18 AM

this isn't something that Lois is foisting on him

Yes she did.

I'm not going to bother with the rest of the discussion but let's be clear on what actually they showed us -- Lois threw a pity party (per Clark's comment about her motivation for drinking) and got rudely drunk (self-evident from that toast). Rather than let her drunk drive, Clark did the decent thing and took her home and took care of her rather than foist her on Jimmy and Chloe. This is EXACTLY the point he made to her the next morning. She had already trashed up Jimmy and Chloe's evening --- he removed Madame Obnoxious and her Whitesnake singing from the scene. It's not like Lois has any other friends either. Lois, by choosing to get trashed, foist herself on her friends to take care of her. Sure, they could have let her sleep in the gutter but that's not likely.

The person who drinks too much (without setting up a designated driver when sober), foists themselves on the kindness of others without asking permission.

As for the jersey symbolism --- I go back to buttons are not viable for the drunk who takes an hour to put on a jersey. A T-shirt is too small. I do think they intentionally, however, showed the "man shirt on woman" possession aspect but there is no "gift" from Clark to Lois. She was drunk, he cleaned her up because no one else was around to do it. Making this some big romantic gesture seems like continuation of the episode's Clois fanfic vibe.

ETA: I have no doubt Clark made sure Ollie got home safe too (although he probably let him sleep on his couch in his clothes). Same would be true for Jimmy --- in fact he stays with Jimmy after his moment. Yes, it was in the hospital and Jimmy had a heartattack but he wanted to make sure he's okay as well as find out who he was with. Geez, he stayed with Lex in S7 after Cure and he hated Lex. And random rapper-phantom -- he stayed with him too. Yes, in these cases he wanted to talk, but I've always felt it's within him to make sure someone is okay before leaving. If it had been Chloe or Kara, I'm sure he would have cared them for just like he cared for Lois. Clark is a nice guy.

eas

10-22-2008, 08:25 AM

Yes she did.

I'm not going to bother with the rest of the discussion but let's be clear on what actually they showed us -- Lois threw a pity party (per Clark's comment about her motivation for drinking) and got rudely drunk (self-evident from that toast). Rather than let her drunk drive, Clark did the decent thing and took her home and took care of her rather than foist her on Jimmy and Chloe. This is EXACTLY the point he made to her the next morning. She had already trashed up Jimmy and Chloe's evening --- he removed Madame Obnoxious and her Whitesnake singing from the scene. It's not like Lois has any other friends either.

I'm actually not clear on that. I think that's one way to interpret the scene, but let's be clear: It's your opinion (a biased one at that, given the adjectives and use of nicknames) of the events of the episode. The episode, itself, can be looked at in a variety of different ways, especially when one considers the symbolism of her wearing his clothes.

Clark and Lois are good friends... best friends, even. Clark didn't act or talk like he was forced to do anything. He was smiling and joking throughout the whole scene and his convo with Lois at the party was of one concerned friend talking to another. Clark walked Lois up to the Talon, even though he didn't need to - he could have just dropped her off at the door and sped away.

Also, it is the nature of "SV" that all the main characters don't have friends outside of each other. Lois is not an outlier in this.

SueB

10-22-2008, 08:36 AM

Clark and Lois are good friends... best friends, even.

So now Lois has replace Chloe as Clark's best friend? Well isn't that a reversal of your arguments for the last six weeks. I want to make this clear -- you've argued for months that Lois was not going to replace Chloe as Clark's best friend -- now you are claiming it has already happened. Unbelievable. As I see it --- you've reversed your position. Does that mean you also acknowledge the entire point of Chloe being removed from the DP was for Clois? That Chloe's deconstruction is for Clois? I'm glad you are seeing that Lois cannot become "Clois" without that.

Clark didn't act or talk like he was forced to do anything.

So Lois, with her obnoxious toast, did not force Clark to intervene to prevent her from doing further harm?

He was smiling and joking throughout the whole scene and his convo with Lois at the party was of one concerned friend talking to another.

I agree he was concerned about both how much she was drinking and her motivation behind it. I don't think he was having a good time when she made a fool of herself.

Clark walked Lois up to the Talon, even though he didn't need to - he could have just dropped her off at the door and sped away.

I must have missed that scene when he walked her anywhere. Lois asked him why he didn't just do that and he responded because he didn't think Chloe and Jimmy would enjoy the Whitesnake singalong. Lois was going to be foisted on someone: Chimmy or Clark. Clark, being Chloe's BFF, kept her away from Chimmy. Did you miss those lines in the morning after scene?

gem65

10-22-2008, 08:44 AM

Clark is now living by himself because his mother moved to D.C. She would have brought all her clothes with her. So what else was he going to give Lois to wear? It makes sense for him to give her his jersey. Besides, I don't see Lois as a flannel nightgown-type of girl. I remember her wearing pajamas in the "Commencement" episode.

;)

LovelyLoisLane

10-22-2008, 08:48 AM

Clark didn't seem very bothered about taking of Lois and in fact was smiling as he handed the Alka Seltzer or whatever that was.

Let's not make this into something it isn't in either case.

I don't care if you are a Chlarker or a Cloiser, but here is what it was.

Clark was nice to Lois and lent her his jersey to sleep in.

That's it.

He didn't do it because of Chimmy, he didn't do it because he was fantasizing about Lois in it it. He did it because he's a nice guy and that is all.

I'm frankly getting a little tired of the argument I've been hearing from some people that Clark does everything for Chloe and doesn't give a crap about Lois. I'm not a Cloiser and even I can tell you that Clark likes Lois and thinks of her as his friend.

He didn't behave like she was foisting herself on him or any other nonsense. Lois is his friend and he treated her as such. Did he take her back to his place also because he thought Chloe and Jimmy might want to be alone? Yes, probably, but also because he cares about Lois.

I'm getting really really really sick of the Lois vs Chloe, Clois vs Chlark garbage that is polluting nearly every thread these days. I've had enough. So why don't we just view it for what it was. Clark being a nice dude, and for those of us that find Erica Durance attractive, as a nice moment to enjoy her attractiveness.

SueB

10-22-2008, 08:50 AM

Lois is his friend and he treated her as such. Did he take her back to his place also because he thought Chloe and Jimmy might want to be alone? Yes, probably, but also because he cares about Lois.

That's all I think it is as well. My response was to the pages of making this some big romantic gesture.

eas

10-22-2008, 08:52 AM

.

So now Lois has replace Chloe as Clark's best friend? Well isn't that a reversal of your arguments for the last six weeks. I want to make this clear -- you've argued for months that Lois was not going to replace Chloe as Clark's best friend -- now you are claiming it has already happened. Unbelievable. As I see it --- you've reversed your position. Does that mean you also acknowledge the entire point of Chloe being removed from the DP was for Clois? That Chloe's deconstruction is for Clois? I'm glad you are seeing that Lois cannot become "Clois" without that.

They said that Clark and Lois were best friends (per show canon) back in S6. Ollie said this to Clark and Clark didn't correct Ollie - meaning his silence was agreement. If I remember correctly, Lois wasn't working at the DP at that time and Chloe was working at the DP. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

I've always stated that Clark is entitled to having more than one best friend. There is no reversal of position from my end. I believe he can be best friends with both Chloe and Lois and I believe that - in S8 - this is exactly what we're seeing. It was in both Lois and Chloe's best interests for him to spirit Lois away to this farm & he was looking out for both his best friends. It's a testimony to how far Clark has come and how much he has grown that he wasn't afraid to take charge & take care of Lois throughout the night.

So Lois, with her obnoxious toast, did not force Clark to intervene to prevent her from doing further harm?

No, he could have let fall flat on her face and deal with the consequences. Clark Kent of S4, S5, S6, and S7 would have had no problem with just standing by and letting Lois deal with the fall out of her own actions. Or Chloe would have jumped in and stopped Lois. Clark pro-actively stepped forward to help Lois out. As a good friend would - a friend who cares about Lois and doesn't want to see her hurt.

And, yes, her toast was obnoxious. I take it that you don't give her props for admitting and apologizing to Chloe at the end of the episode?

I agree he was concerned about both how much she was drinking and her motivation behind it. I don't think he was having a good time when she made a fool of herself.

I think his grins show that he was... as well as the grins on his face the morning after. He even laughs and says, "You're hilarious when you're hung-over, Lois."

I must have missed that scene when he walked her anywhere. Lois asked him why he didn't just do that and he responded because he didn't think Chloe and Jimmy would enjoy the Whitesnake singalong. Lois was going to be foisted on someone: Chimmy or Clark. Clark, being Chloe's BFF, kept her away from Chimmy. Did you miss those lines in the morning after scene?

I didn't miss those lines - I just don't see them the way you see them. He could have begrudgingly taken care of her, but he didn't. Did you miss the fact that he gave her his own shirt? Not once, but twice? Did you miss the fact that he brought her alka-seltzer with a cheerful, "good morning, Lois!" and a big grin on his face? Does sound and look like someone who is being FORCED to take care of her? All he says to her about not being at the Talon was, "I don't think that Chloe and Jimmy would have appreciated the Whitesnake sing-a-long..."... he's just making joke about what she did when she was drunk (along with the comment about the one hour it took for her to change in the kitchen). He was clearly by her side throughout all of this and he was enjoying giving her the run-down. Clark doesn't usually grin and laugh like that when he's being put upon. He groans, sighs, and rolls his eyes. Something that he never holds back from doing when he's around Lois and she's annoying him. (Contrast it to how he looks when she says, "Clark Kent, will you marry me" and how forcefully he puts the ring on her finger when she says that he has "performance anxiety".)

And there was no scene that showed him walking her up the Talon, but it's common sense. He follows her into the Talon apartment (the scene where Lois says, "Chloe?" and Clark says, "Jimmy?" and Lois says, "You know what Lois likes to see when she comes home. Pants. Pants on everyone.") and there was no need for him to do that. They said that she didn't have her car at the farm so he had to drive her to the Talon. That's fine. There was no need for him to go up to her apartment - unless he decided to walk her up there.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

That's all I think it is as well. My response was to the pages of making this some big romantic gesture.

I don't think folks are making this into some huge romantic gesture. I think that they're analyzing the symbolic nature of the scene.

Those are two different things. And it's symbolism that is being analyzed from both sides... from both the shipper and non-shipper perspective.

And I read your post as saying that Clark was forced to take care of Lois and doesn't even like her as a friend (that it was all about Chloe). Are you saying, then, that this is not the case? That you agree with LLL that he actually likes Lois and that was - at least - partly his motivation for taking care of Lois?

Dobson

10-22-2008, 08:55 AM

That's all I think it is as well. My response was to the pages of making this some big romantic gesture.

So what if people want to think it is?

SueB

10-22-2008, 08:56 AM

There was no need for him to go up to her apartment - unless he decided to walk her up there.

And the plot needed him to do so.

I think Clark was very gracious with Lois and enjoyed her discomfort after all the crap she gives him. I doubt he enjoyed cleaning up her vomit. I think they are good friends at this stage. I don't believe the term "best" is meant to be used for multiple people.

LovelyLoisLane

10-22-2008, 08:57 AM

There goes another thread that I can no longer enjoy posting in.

I thought it was a cute scene, I like Lois.

Going in thinking those things I don't think Clark felt put upon in the slightest by taking care of Lois because he likes her. I thought that was obvious from the smile he was wearing in that scene. Chloe also didn't seem so horrified with her cousin for what happened at the party, just in so much as wishing Lois didn't have to get sloshed to express her concerns with the relationship. They worked things out so I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if Chloe didn't think Lois was an obnoxious jerk, that Clark likely didn't either.

I don't think it was a big romantic gesture from Clark, no, but I don't think it was a slap in the face for Chlarkers either. I really don't see how it is big deal either way.

As for 'best friends' yes, it is for multiple persons, or it can be, because I have more than one, and my best buds also have more than one best friend, as do my siblings and other peeps I know. I don't thik Lois is Clark's best friend though, but I don't think Chloe holds some sort of WWF one and only best friend belt for that title. Clark can have other best friends, I just don't think he does right now. Though Lois certainly is a friend though. Chloe is Clark's best friend right now, for sure, and as she said his Best Friend Forever. The best of the best as it were. I don't think that means there needs to be all this threads and statements made in them that make the whole affair into some 'Chloe is SO much more important to Clark than Lois." deal.

Once upon a time there was a man named Clark Kent, who had a best friend named Chloe and a friend named Lois. They were both important to Clark. The End.

eas

10-22-2008, 08:58 AM

And the plot needed him to do so.

I think Clark was very gracious with Lois and enjoyed her discomfort after all the crap she gives him. I doubt he enjoyed cleaning up her vomit. I think they are good friends at this stage. I don't believe the term "best" is meant to be used for multiple people.

Why not? I've got more than one best friend.

And so what if the plot needed him to do so? The end result on how the scene - and the impact it has on the perception of their relationship - is still the same.

----- Added 39 Seconds later -----

There goes another thread that I can no longer enjoy posting in.

I thought it was a cute scene, I like Lois.

Going in thinking those things I don't think Clark felt put upon in the slightest by taking care of Lois because he likes her. I thought that was obvious from the smile he was wearing in that scene. Chloe also didn't seem so horrified with her cousin for what happened at the party, just in so much as wishing Lois didn't have to get sloshed to express her concerns with the relationship. They worked things out so I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if Chloe didn't think Lois was an obnoxious jerk, that Clark likely didn't either.

I don't think it was a big romantic gesture from Clark, no, but I don't think it was a slap in the face for Chlarkers either. I really don't see how it is big deal either way.

I agree.

SueB

10-22-2008, 08:59 AM

So what if people want to think it is?

Well when they make their point by comparing it negatively to Chloe as why they view it as being romantic -- I'll speak my mind.

I don't think it was a big romantic gesture from Clark, no, but I don't think it was a slap in the face for Chlarkers either. I really don't see how it is big deal either way.

Which was my point pages ago. It was eas who talked about Chloe foisting herself on Clark -- that's where the issue started --- ask eas why she had to do that, not me.

Dustmite

10-22-2008, 09:02 AM

.

So now Lois has replace Chloe as Clark's best friend?

No. I know you weren't asking me but I felt the need to respond.

LovelyLoisLane

10-22-2008, 09:03 AM

Right so now that the topic has been de-railed, suprise surprise. Here is the topic again in picture.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/KaraStarbuckNY/Smallville%20TV/LoisJersey.jpg

I love how her curves aren't hidden under there. That would be a damn shame.

What WAS that Clark handed her anyway? I thought it was Alka Seltzer.

eas

10-22-2008, 09:05 AM

Well when they make their point by comparing it negatively to Chloe as why they view it as being romantic -- I'll speak my mind.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/KaraStarbuckNY/Smallville%20TV/LoisJersey.jpg

Which was my point pages ago. It was eas who talked about Chloe foisting herself on Clark -- that's where the issue started --- ask eas why she had to do that, not me.

I started the issue? :lol: I brought it up as a response to all the posts on this thread who felt that this scene was directly crapping on the "Chloe in Clark's shirt" scene in "Devoted". And I explained why I felt that this wasn't put in the episode to just crap on that scene. I also explained why I don't even think that it's that great of a Chlark episode and scene, to begin with, so I can't don't believe that TPTB see it as such, either. Did you (1) read my whole post and (2) read the thread before my post?

And, to be honest, I didn't see this scene as being romantic. I saw it as being cute and fun & maybe dripping with symbolism. But that's about it... nothing in my post (if you actually read it) said "romantic"... the whole point was that it was about Clark's development. In fact, my post even stated that he was freaked out when LOIS borrowed a shirt from him in S4, without asking. Again, did you even read my post?

SueB

10-22-2008, 09:06 AM

and doesn't even like her as a friend

I never said that. I do think Clark likes Lois as a friend. He also tolerates alot of abuse from her but he does tolerate it.

nothing in my post (if you actually read it) said "romantic"

really, cause when you said:

I definitely think it was deliberate that they wanted Lois to wake up in something that belonged to Clark.

That sounds like a romantic allusion to me.

Your post was harsh on Chloe's actions and implied Clark would not have taken care of Chloe in that situation but only did so because she forced him to. That's just not true. Yes, it was another S4 "scared of boobies" moment, but Clark was very concerned about Chloe. He patted Chloe's hand and apparently took care of her enough that she wasn't left in the barn all night. A better comparison is Crimson Lois. Those two situations are far more similar than drunken Lois in S8. In both of those situations, Clark's reaction was actually pretty similar (take care of the person without responding to their romantic overture). Yes, when Lois forced a RedK kiss on Clark he responded (ala Maxima). But his first response was to superspeed away from the farm when she came on to him.

Your comparison of drunken Lois versus involuntarily drugged Chloe was centered on Clark wanting to take care of one and not the other with the implication that Clark would not voluntarily take care of an impaired Chloe. That simply is not true.

ETA: Willing friend or not, drunk people who do not arrange for the designated driver foist themselves on others. See "House" and what happened with Wilson/Amber.

individuall

10-22-2008, 09:11 AM

Right so now that the topic has been de-railed, suprise surprise. Here is the topic again in picture.

[MOD EDIT]

I love how her curves aren't hidden under there. That would be a damn shame.

What WAS that Clark handed her anyway? I thought it was Alka Seltzer.

LOL. it was Alka Seltzer... a regular glass of water and couple of Advil would've been better..Instead of something for indigestion/heartburn...But OK then LOL.

I thought the scene was cute and fun...It had some symbolism (Lois wearing Supes colors) I very much enjoyed it :D

Dustmite

10-22-2008, 09:13 AM

I brought it up as a response to all the posts on this thread who felt that this scene was directly crapping on the "Chloe in Clark's shirt" scene in "Devoted". And I explained why I felt that this wasn't put in the episode to just crap on that scene.

I can understand why you don't feel that this was crapping on "Chloe in Clark's shirt" scene but I don't think anything that is said will change people's minds and there are people (myself included) who believe that it was crapped on and after the last episode where the Fever letter was handled so atrociously, people are extra sensitive to what they feel are moments that they considered special being abused. Irrational or not, it's the way it is.

eas

10-22-2008, 09:14 AM

LOL. it was Alka Seltzer... a regular glass of water and couple of Advil would've been better..Instead of something for indigestion/heartburn...But OK then LOL.

I think he was trying to give her something to settle her stomach... after all the throwing up.

I actually thought that was well done, because Clark has never had a hang-over, right? So, he wouldn't know how much it hurts or what-not.

I was waiting, though, for Lois to jump and state that she needed a pickle!

LovelyLoisLane

10-22-2008, 09:16 AM

LOL. it was Alka Seltzer... a regular glass of water and couple of Advil would've been better..Instead of something for indigestion/heartburn...But OK then LOL.

I thought the scene was cute and fun...It had some symbolism (Lois wearing Supes colors) I very much enjoyed it :D

That's what I thought, lol. But Clark has never had a hangover and never will. He could drink enough spirits to fill Crater Lake and not get drunk. Damn, wish I had a Kryptonian system. I'd drink Pina Coladas until I was broke. So maybe it is a good thing that I'm just a human afterall :P

So Clark wouldn't really know that he should give her tylenol and maybe some java.

As far as symbolism, it was missing the Supes blue. I think possibly they put her in it, the props dept that is, because of all the red. I would say that red is definitely Lois' color too. She looks great in it. But I think it was more the Smallville colors of red, black and yellow. With the LC insignia on the shoulder. It made a nice shout out to seasons past.

eas

10-22-2008, 09:17 AM

I can understand why you don't feel that this was crapping on "Chloe in Clark's shirt" scene but I don't think anything that is said will change people's minds and there are people (myself included) who believe that it was crapped on and after the last episode where the Fever letter was handled so atrociously, people are extra sensitive to what they feel are moments that they considered special being abused. Irrational or not, it's the way it is.

I understand that, Dustmite. I think that I was basically trying to explain (perhaps not well) that I never saw that scene as a good Chlark scene, so perhaps we should give TPTB some benefit of the doubt.

I agree that things like the "Fever" letter is completely out of line (I posted that even last week) but this particular scene didn't seem to be like they went out of the way to do it... just because I never realized how sacred that Chlark scene was. The "Fever" letter and "Vessel" kiss, etc... yeah, I get that. This one, not so much. So when I see folks totally full of rage and frustration at this, I feel bewildered and I said so.

Now, if - this season - Clark catches a car in one hand, while holding Lois and then proceeds to kiss her or something - I'll be the first one to say that they're crapping on Chlark. But this? Or scenes where they walk together or talk a desk at the DP? I can't see it. I'm sorry.

LovelyLoisLane

10-22-2008, 09:18 AM

Can I guess respectfully ask that we drop talking about any Chlark vs Clois here and get back to Lois in Clark's jersey?

eas

10-22-2008, 09:19 AM

That's what I thought, lol. But Clark has never had a hangover and never will. He could drink enough spirits to fill Crater Lake and not get drunk. Damn, wish I had a Kryptonian system. I'd drink Pina Coladas until I was broke. So maybe it is a good thing that I'm just a human afterall :P

So Clark wouldn't really know that he should give her tylenol and maybe some java.

OK, was I the only one who was kind of amazed at how quickly she recovered? I've never been hung-over in my life (never even touched a drop of alcohol) but I've had enough friends who have and they don't immediately jump up and start running around right afterwards.

Sweetie

10-22-2008, 09:24 AM

It was just a pure gesture of friendship.Clark wanted to give Chimmy some privaties also.So,he lent her his jersey.What is the big deal?It makes sense that he choose that from all his closes.It's probably the only thing in his closet that fits her and no bottons was really practical for the situation.Would you prefer the red cape instead?;)

Dustmite

10-22-2008, 09:26 AM

I understand that, Dustmite. I think that I was basically trying to explain (perhaps not well) that I never saw that scene as a good Chlark scene, so perhaps we should give TPTB some benefit of the doubt.

I agree that things like the "Fever" letter is completely out of line (I posted that even last week) but this particular scene didn't seem to be like they went out of the way to do it... just because I never realized how sacred that Chlark scene was. The "Fever" letter and "Vessel" kiss, etc... yeah, I get that. This one, not so much. So when I see folks totally full of rage and frustration at this, I feel bewildered and I said so.

Now, if - this season - Clark catches a car in one hand, while holding Lois and then proceeds to kiss her or something - I'll be the first one to say that they're crapping on Chlark. But this? Or scenes where they walk together or talk a desk at the DP? I can't see it. I'm sorry.

Ok, I need to clear something up, the walk, I was kidding about and I have a sarcastic sense of humour so sometimes it doesn't translate well but I was joking. I still think Chlark look damn sexy whilst walking though, they have a sexy strut. I'm not sure what desk scene you're talking about so I don't know whether I'll agree or disagree with you but just for the hell of it, I'm probably right and you're probably wrong :p

I can see why you don't see that Devoted scene as a particularly good Chlark scene but the point is that most Chlarkers do (or did). Shippers are weird like that, we hold onto scenes that most other viewers probably dismiss or discard. I probably don't know half of the scenes that Cloisers treasure but that devoted scene and the image of Chloe wearing Clark's football jersey was used in countless Chlark vids, talked about endless and was something that we found cute.

I'm not even going to talk about the Fever letter because I get all ragey and red and that's not a pretty look for me. I hate TPTB for doing what they did with it, just hate.

I've never been hung-over in my life (never even touched a drop of alcohol)

Me either unless you count that one champagne truffle I scoffed by mistake a few years ago. And realistically I don't think she would recover that quickly but they needed her well for the rest of the episode.

stenochick

10-22-2008, 09:27 AM

As far as symbolism, it was missing the Supes blue.

The sheet she was wrapped in was blue.:)

LovelyLoisLane

10-22-2008, 09:28 AM

By the Power of Alka Seltzer!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/KaraStarbuckNY/Smallville%20TV/normal_805Smallville0071.jpg

Mmm, fizzy. I like fizzy.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/KaraStarbuckNY/Smallville%20TV/normal_805Smallville0084.jpg

On second thought, I think I'm gonna be sick!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/KaraStarbuckNY/Smallville%20TV/normal_805Smallville0085.jpg

Waiter! Pepto Bismol?
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/KaraStarbuckNY/Smallville%20TV/normal_805Smallville0096.jpg

stenochick

10-22-2008, 09:29 AM

LLL, can you get a screen shot of Lois just prior to these ones? You will see her in the blue sheet and red and yellow jersey. Total Superman reference.

individuall

10-22-2008, 09:33 AM

eas

10-22-2008, 09:52 AM

Ok, I need to clear something up, the walk, I was kidding about and I have a sarcastic sense of humour so sometimes it doesn't translate well but I was joking. I still think Chlark look damn sexy whilst walking though, they have a sexy strut. I'm not sure what desk scene you're talking about so I don't know whether I'll agree or disagree with you but just for the hell of it, I'm probably right and you're probably wrong :p

:lol:

I knew it! I knew you were joking!! But you said later you were dead serious and I was all like, "Whaa--aat?"

*hugs*

The desk scene was me being funny.... let's just agree that we're both agreeing with each other and leave it at that. ;)

I can see why you don't see that Devoted scene as a particularly good Chlark scene but the point is that most Chlarkers do (or did). Shippers are weird like that, we hold onto scenes that most other viewers probably dismiss or discard. I probably don't know half of the scenes that Cloisers treasure but that devoted scene and the image of Chloe wearing Clark's football jersey was used in countless Chlark vids, talked about endless and was something that we found cute.

Ah, I see! That clears it up for me... I guess I see it now, but I was just trying to say that - like me - perhaps the TPTB didn't see how important it was. Just giving them the benefit of doubt.

But, now, I can see where you're coming from.

Me either unless you count that one champagne truffle I scoffed by mistake a few years ago. And realistically I don't think she would recover that quickly but they needed her well for the rest of the episode.

:lol: I don't count that... but, admit it, you know you loved every minute of that truffle!! :p Just like I loved every minute of the chocolate fondue I ate by mistake a few months ago... how was I supposed to know it was loaded with Grand Marnier?

DontCha

10-22-2008, 09:52 AM

oh dude being hung over sucks, I never get headaches, just really..REALLY sick

----- Added 55 Seconds later -----

The sheet she was wrapped in was blue.:)

and when she stands up you can no longer see the sheet but he's wearing blue

And BTW, he gives her Paracetamol. I have the same things, they're large round tablets that fizz up when you plonk them in water. you usually take two and it tastes HORRIBLE which is why she was like "ewwww!"

eas

10-22-2008, 09:55 AM

eas I was surprised how quickly she recovered from the hangover too! LOL. I mean I know Lois Lane is resiliant but that was a little ridiculous...However, she did puke..That helps when avoiding the hangover's I've foun..er..I mean heard from some friends... *ahem* ...So honestly the worst she should have been was dehydrated...And the Alke should have helped with that..So she was pretty good to go, actually...And she looked darn cute in that jersey!:)

I was waiting for something... a reference to a pickle, at least! (a la "Toxic")

Also, I thought she was just a little too okay with the sunlight in her face. Wouldn't that HURT? Whenever my friends are hung-over, they were sunglasses even indoors.

Dustmite

10-22-2008, 10:06 AM

:lol:

I knew it! I knew you were joking!! But you said later you were dead serious and I was all like, "Whaa--aat?"

Yeah I was still being sarcastic :lol: I thought the "I always am" would give me away but I just managed to cause even more confusion.

Ah, I see! That clears it up for me... I guess I see it now, but I was just trying to say that - like me - perhaps the TPTB didn't see how important it was. Just giving them the benefit of doubt.

But, now, I can see where you're coming from.

I am never going to give TPTB the benefit of the doubt ever again, not after Instinct. Why couldn't they just leave it alone. Why? :(

I don't count that... but, admit it, you know you loved every minute of that truffle!!

:lol:

I would have spat it out if we weren't at a swanky restaurant and I wasn't trying to give the impression that I was quite civilized.

eas

10-22-2008, 10:10 AM

I am never going to give TPTB the benefit of the doubt ever again, not after Instinct. Why couldn't they just leave it alone. Why? :(

Aw, I'm sorry. *hugs again* I get it, now.

:lol:

I would have spat it out if we weren't at a swanky restaurant and I wasn't trying to give the impression that I was quite civilized.

LOL... didn't stop me from spitting my strawberry loaded with chocolate sauce into a napkin as soon as I tasted the alcohol... admittedly, my co-workers were kind of grossed out.... LOL.

Ahem... back on topic... *fears LLL's wrath*....

Lois got over the effects of alchohol much too quickly and looked way too good. I wanted, at least, dark circles under her eyes.

LovelyLoisLane

10-22-2008, 10:35 AM

Yes, Triple L, the anti-christ that likes to flirt and drink alcohol has returned. :p

I haven't had much in the way of hangovers, except a slight headache, and those few horrible times that the hangover was replaced by the horror of waking up next to someone I didn't much like. But I agree that I wish it went away as quickly as Lois' did. Lucky beyotch. I've never had really bad dark circles either, I was just born to be a babe, what can I say? :P But I'm alright with my object of affection, that'd be Lois Lane, not having them either.

I really enjoyed that whole scene and because it can't be mentioned enough, she has some damn fine legs!!!! :D

Thank you Clark, from the bottom of my heart.

Kal-ed

10-22-2008, 10:55 AM

eas

10-22-2008, 11:11 AM

I dont think her hangover went away, its just that its not like people become crippled, I drink very frequently, on a weekly basis, in Mexico is costumary for people to seal deals by shaking hands in bars and such, so its not strange for me being hung over on a Thursday and I get up, take a shower, have breakfast (what ever my stomach allows) and proceed to work and function as a normal person, people dont notice Im hungover unless I tell them I feel like Im dying on the inside, that I would run to the hospital if I didnt already know what was going on, still I do what I have to do and quietly carry on with my pain. Im taking that´s what Lois was doing, she was hungover but had things to do.

Ah, I see. OK, that makes sense to me... so she was in pain, but she was hiding it. That works, because Chloe and Jimmy were kidnapped, after all.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

I really enjoyed that whole scene and because it can't be mentioned enough, she has some damn fine legs!!!! :D

Yes, I noticed that, too. My immediate thought, when she was putting on her shoes, was, "Damn, Durance's legs are awesome."

stenochick

10-22-2008, 11:27 AM

And BTW, he gives her Paracetamol. I have the same things, they're large round tablets that fizz up when you plonk them in water. you usually take two and it tastes HORRIBLE which is why she was like "ewwww!"

Is that the same thing as Alka-Seltzer? Because here in the states we have Alka-Seltzer and it is exactly what you are describing. The old commercial jingo was, "Plop, plop, fizz, fizz. Oh what a relief it is..."

Kalista

10-22-2008, 11:50 AM

Or you could decide that every similar scene is stealing from its earlier counterpoint. The Chlark seduction scene in "Devoted" stole from Clana seduction in "Nicodemus." Similar enough. Chlark hospital scene in "Arctic" from the Clana hospital scenes leading up to the finale. And the death scene in "Odyssey" DEFINITeLY was taken from "Hidden." I hope nobody thought these were special for Chlark. They were all stolen from Clana. By this logic, at least.

If Chloe dressed up in a tank top, mini skirt and riding boots and proceeded to strip down to her panties in bra by a pool, then I could agree that the Clana seduction scene was similar to the Chlark seduction scene. Actually, the Chlark hospital scene in Arctic was a a wonderful comparison to a certain comic scene and same thing applies to the death scene in Odyssey.

If they wanted to foreshadow something romantic for Clois during the hangover scene, it would have been the perfect opportunity to do something that uniquely applied to Clois.

Jade4813

10-22-2008, 12:07 PM

If Chloe dressed up in a tank top, mini skirt and riding boots and proceeded to strip down to her panties in bra by a pool, then I could agree that the Clana seduction scene was similar to the Chlark seduction scene. Actually, the Chlark hospital scene in Arctic was a a wonderful comparison to a certain comic scene and same thing applies to the death scene in Odyssey.

If they wanted to foreshadow something romantic for Clois during the hangover scene, it would have been the perfect opportunity to do something that uniquely applied to Clois.

Sorry, this reeks of "double standards" or at least of selective interpretation. If you want to argue that Lois and Clark being sucked into the PZ together is a throwback to Chloe and Clark being sucked into the Arcitc together without knowing anything else about what happens - what happens, why it happens, how it happens, the circumstances around it happening, etc., then it seems that you're willing to make broad stroke generalizations about scenes to use in comparison.

Fine, then. Such is your right.

In both "Nicodemus" and then in "Devoted" the girl in question - Lana and then Chloe - stripped down to relatively nothing. Both were under the influence of something and so were not entirely themselves, though they were likely acting on internal impulses they've always felt if not always recognized. Both tried to seduce Clark. Both were rejected by Clark - very likely in part BECAUSE they weren't themselves.

If the PZ equals the Arctic when you want to cry foul, you have to use that same standard on other scenes.

As far as the hospital scene and the "Odyssey" scene go, thank you for admitting that using this broad generalization you're using, Clois in the comics did it first. I also contend they did it better (it helps that in the Death of Superman story Superman actually died whereas here, Clark was hurt and then saved by MM). So not, I would contend, the same thing. But, hey, we're using your standard here! What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Isn't that what they say?

But even forgetting that, in the show, Clana did it first.

Again, using your standard, the hospital scene goes back to all those hospital scenes leading up to it. Hell, they both even had much the same injury, caused by the same villain. Clark sat by their bedside and worried about them. Chlark stole from Clana!

In the "Odyssey" "death" scene in which he didn't actually die, it totally stole from the Clana death scene in "Hidden." Clark gets shot in the chest - with a bullet or arrow, these details are not important in your proposed generalization. He's dying, and the woman in question - first Lana and then Chloe - are there to witness it. Both girls beg for him to live. Both girls are holding him as he dies (or almost dies). Both girls crying.

Chlark totally stole from Clana.

If someone wants to recognize the distinctions here, they'd have to look at context, situation, details, etc., that, by the generalization proposed before in this conversation, are invalid. The broad strokes of what's going on is the same. Ergo, the scenes are the same. Ergo, the latter scene stole from the earlier scene.

To argue that the upcoming plot in "Bloodline" is stealing from the Chlark transportation to the Arctic is taking a broad stroke picture of the scene. We don't know how it will happen, we don't know why, we don't know if Clark will know that Lois has been teleported with him at first. We don't know a lot of things. But by your contention, "Bloodline" will steal from Chlark because the basic idea of the two of them being sucked somewhere is the same.

Fine, then. By that logic, "Devoted" stole from "Nicodemus" and "Odyssey" from "Hidden." And there are many, many more I'm sure.

You either want to look at the big picture and say it's the same or you want to look at the smaller picture and point out the differences. It's your call, but if you're going to look at the big picture to accuse Clois of having stolen from Chlark in Smallville, you have to apply that same standard to Chlark and say that it's totally stolen from Clana over the course of the show. Repeatedly. Shamelessly. With some of the moments that would otherwise be very special for Chlark...had they not been "stolen" from Clana.

To apply two DIFFERENT standards as suits convenience would be...well, I do believe that's the definition of "double standards."

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----

If Chloe dressed up in a tank top, mini skirt and riding boots and proceeded to strip down to her panties in bra by a pool, then I could agree that the Clana seduction scene was similar to the Chlark seduction scene.

Because I don't want anyone to accuse me of being unclear, I just wanted to reiterate this part of your argument.

So, Chlark wasn't stealing from Clana because Chloe was wearing different clothes and she stripped them off in a different manner in a different location. Ohkay. Fine. I'll bite.

So remind me again how "Bloodline" will steal from Chlark? They're different people being taken to different locations under different circumstances (Lex most certainly won't be there in "Bloodline" even!) to do different things with different impetuses behind the journeys. Unless you honestly think Clark is going to the PZ to throw a crystal and grow another FoS in the PZ, where he will then start to undergo training only to be interrupted by Lois freezing nearby?

So I'm confused. Are we to look at details like clothing and location, or are we to ignore them? Or is it that we're to look at clothing but not motive, means, location, purpose, etc.? I wouldn't think you'd argue that you should have it both ways. That doesn't make sense. :confused:

Dustmite

10-22-2008, 12:15 PM

To apply two DIFFERENT standards as suits convenience would be...well, I do believe that's the definition of "double standards."

I haven't seen the Clana fans complain of the scenes you're talking about so I'm assuming they didn't bother them. If Chlark were making out under a tree, I'm sure it would bother them. If Chlark were talking candidly whilst sitting on the old windmill, I'm sure it would bother them. If Chlark were shown staring at the same moon from different places in the world, I'm sure it would bother them.

If Chloe was wearing a red bikini when trying to seduce Clark, I'm sure it would have bothered them.

Hell, it would bother me.

supes0

10-22-2008, 12:15 PM

OK, was I the only one who was kind of amazed at how quickly she recovered? I've never been hung-over in my life (never even touched a drop of alcohol) but I've had enough friends who have and they don't immediately jump up and start running around right afterwards.

Not really. Sometimes circumstances force you to punch through it. Once she got home and realized Chloe was missing, she had no choice but to pull it together, even as it hurts.

Otherwise, I'd espect her to suffer her way through the dress fittings then go home and take a long nap.

Not that I would know *anything* about this... :lol:

Kalista

10-22-2008, 12:22 PM

Sorry, this reeks of "double standards" or at least of selective interpretation.

I really don't care to comment on anything else but I will say this. The Clana fans would have immediately picked up on any Chlark scenes that replicated what they considered to be special Clana moments. I don't recall seeing any such complaints. Why? Because while the scenes may have had some similarities, there nothing that blatantly screamed "copy cat". This isn't the only scene. The Chlark scene at the DP in Phantom is a perfect example. It takes alot of time to set up those shots and they certainly aren't random. There are a number of ways to set up a scene without rehashing the EXACT same set up. When it involves ships, it's no accident. That's really all I have to say.

individuall

10-22-2008, 12:23 PM

Not really. Sometimes circumstances force you to punch through it. Once she got home and realized Chloe was missing, she had no choice but to pull it together, even as it hurts.

Otherwise, I'd espect her to suffer her way through the dress fittings then go home and take a long nap.

Not that I would know *anything* about this... :lol:
Yeah and I'm sure over the counter drugs were definitely involved...It wouldn't surprise me if Lois had her own little 'hang over' remedy ;)

Anyway back to Lois in the jersey...:D

Jade4813

10-22-2008, 12:24 PM

I haven't seen the Clana fans complain of the scenes you're talking about so I'm assuming they didn't bother them. If Chlark were making out under a tree, I'm sure it would bother them. If Chlark were talking candidly whilst sitting on the old windmill, I'm sure it would bother them. If Chlark were shown staring at the same moon from different places in the world, I'm sure it would bother them.

Hey, I'm just trying to figure out the argument here. Whether or not the Clana fans ARE upset is about their scenes being stolen and Chlark fans are, IMO, irrelevant to the argument. Either the scenes are being stolen or they aren't.

If someone is going to use this generalization to say that Clois is stealing from Chlark then they should apply the same standard to say that Chlark has stolen from Clana. Thus, whether Clana fans ARE upset about it, they would have a RIGHT to be upset if they chose to be, and the fans who are willing to apply this generalization themselves to cry "foul" when it comes to other ships should be willing to apply it to their own and cry "foul" as well.

If someone is going to use a broad generalization standard to cry "foul" because they're saying that one ship is stealing from another, they should be willing to apply that same standard to EVERY SHIP, including their own. If they're going to make distinctions when it comes to their own ship, they should be willing to look at distinctions when it comes to other ships too.

Whether or not Clana fans actually are crying foul over this - or have - isn't the point. If no Chlark fan had screamed bloody murder on this site after the "Fever" letter's return, the argument that it was wrong of TPTB to bring it back in that way wouldn't be irrelevant.

Either you want to compare scenes as pertain to ships in general terms and say they're the same and they're "stealing" from each other or you want to look at details and say they're different. I tend to be in the latter category, personally. I don't mind that people are in the former category, but it seems a bit hypocritical if people are in the former category when it comes to saying that THEIR ships are being stolen from but in the latter category when they want to argue that THEIR ships have never stolen from anyone else.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

I really don't care to comment on anything else but I will say this. The Clana fans would have immediately picked up on any Chlark scenes that replicated what they considered to be special Clana moments. I don't recall seeing any such complaints. Why? Because while the scenes may have had some similarities, there nothing that blatantly screamed "copy cat". This isn't the only scene. The Chlark scene at the DP in Phantom is a perfect example. It takes alot of time to set up those shots and they certainly aren't random. There are a number of ways to set up a scene without rehashing the EXACT same set up. When it involves ships, it's no accident. That's really all I have to say.

:lol: Okay, sure. Well, I was interested to know how you'd distinguish between your two arguments, but now I think I have the answer. That's cool, thanks for the discussion.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----

Yeah and I'm sure over the counter drugs were definitely involved...It wouldn't surprise me if Lois had her own little 'hang over' remedy ;)

Anyway back to Lois in the jersey...:D

:lol: I did like someone's comment after "Toxic" - "What was she going to do with the pickle? Poke Ollie in the eye?"

Lois in the jersey...hmmm...I think I need to rewatch the scene to from any further opinion on it. I'm with the lot who think in general that they used the jersey because no way would Lois have gotten herself into a button up by herself (and that would lead to rampant speculation and Clark getting hit) and a t-shirt would have been a little too revealing, very likely. And maybe they liked the "Kent" thing. I doubt they put ALL that much thought into it personally, but maybe some day they'll address the issue and let us know.

eas

10-22-2008, 12:34 PM

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

:lol: Okay, sure. Well, I was interested to know how you'd distinguish between your two arguments, but now I think I have the answer. That's cool, thanks for the discussion.

You can take the girl out of law school, but not the legal arguments out of the girl.... ;)

Let's let it be... I think we can all agree that "SV" has been unfair to the Chlark 'ship lately and so folks are bound to be on edge, right now.

:lol: I did like someone's comment after "Toxic" - "What was she going to do with the pickle? Poke Ollie in the eye?"

Lois in the jersey...hmmm...I think I need to rewatch the scene to from any further opinion on it. I'm with the lot who think in general that they used the jersey because no way would Lois have gotten herself into a button up by herself (and that would lead to rampant speculation and Clark getting hit) and a t-shirt would have been a little too revealing, very likely. And maybe they liked the "Kent" thing. I doubt they put ALL that much thought into it personally, but maybe some day they'll address the issue and let us know.

Speaking from the perspective of a woman who has been pregnant twice: Pickles taste really good when you're nauseous.

Anyway... I think I speak on behalf of ALL Cloisers when I say that the fan-fics that would have come out Lois being in a button shirt would have been smokin' HOT. The rampant speculation across DI as to how all those little buttons were buttoned up would have shut down that site. LOL

individuall

10-22-2008, 12:37 PM

OK...So I'm having a complete brain fart on the whole 'pickle' thing..What did Lois say about a pickle in toxic? I'm confused..Sorry :o (I seem to be using this smiley a lot today :/)

eas

10-22-2008, 12:38 PM

OK...So I'm having a complete brain fart on the whole 'pickle' thing..What did Lois say about a pickle in toxic? I'm confused..Sorry :o (I seem to be using this smiley a lot today :/)

When she first sees Ollie, she doesn't realize he's poisoned. She thinks he's drunk and needs to sober up. And she lists a bunch of things she needs and she ends with, "and a pickle!!" :lol:

individuall

10-22-2008, 12:39 PM

^LOL. I guess I'll have to rewatch 'Toxic' How did I miss that part?..:eek:GAH!
...Pickle...That's great..:lol:

Jade4813

10-22-2008, 12:41 PM

You can take the girl out of law school, but not the legal arguments out of the girl.... ;)

I fought the law and the law won. ;)

Speaking from the perspective of a woman who has been pregnant twice: Pickles taste really good when you're nauseous.

True...but if Ollie was seriously soused, would they have helped all that much? I'm genuinely asking. I HAVE been soused before, but I apparently am in that really really small percentage of people who can get hammered but won't get a hangover. As I have been hammered before (oy) but have never experienced anything worse than a little bit of a parched throat upon waking up the next morning - and one glass of water takes care of that pretty well.

I know, I know...my friends all hate me. ;) Ironically, though, it makes me drink less. I figure the hangover is the body's way of saying, "Never. Do. That. AGAIN." and my body is clearly just not going to send me that message. So I have to be strong without the biological motivation. ;)

That said...I've definitely been more drunk than Lois was in "Committed" without the unfortunate after effects, so I'm going to call myself a lucky girl in some respects! :lol:

Anyway... I think I speak on behalf of ALL Cloisers when I say that the fan-fics that would have come out Lois being in a button shirt would have been smokin' HOT. The rampant speculation across DI as to how all those little buttons were buttoned up would have shut down that site. LOL

:lol: I would have enjoyed that discussion!

It is funny, though. I know a lot of people were upset at Lana wearing one of Clark's shirts in "Wrath" but I wasn't in particular. Could be because I was still feeling nauseated from the scenes leading up to it. Thinking about it now actually makes me feel a little green. :\

smallvillerocks45

10-22-2008, 12:41 PM

I dont particularly think she's pining for him either because she doesnt want him to know she loves him. She loves him but doesnt want to love him. Thats not pining.

I was thinking this exact point. Lois does not want to love Clark and at this point I can see he doesn't want to love her. That's why I don't find the Lois and Clark ship on SV rushed or inappropriate, but that's neither here nor there (at least not for this thread)... I just really agree with you on this point.

As for the jersey, I just took it as a nice gesture on Clark's part to give her something comfortable and easy to wear. I have a feeling his red, blue, and white tees are a little too form fitting for her to freely move in, and as someone mentioned, the button up plaids would have been a pain for her to put on. All in all, the jersey was a good choice, and a very subtle - but much appreciated - nod to Clark's football days in season 4.

Forever Lex

10-22-2008, 12:46 PM

That jersey was #8.

8 looks like an "S"
as in Superman "S"

Red, yellow & blue are Supe's colors.

It was a tactical decision on the writers part. ;)

Kal-ed

10-22-2008, 12:48 PM

Well, now that I think about it you guys are right and I its really awsome, that they are intentionally shredding the Chlark apart, geting Chloe in the "practice" shirt and Lois in the "real deal" shirt, its kind of telling, great forshadowing while erasing the Chlark, horrible almost non existing story.

I hope, Clark runs out to fight Doomsday, Clois kiss near the stairs of the DP basement, right before stoping a car with one hand and holding Lois with the other one. And in true new showrunners nature, this time, to set the record straight, its Clark the one initiating the kiss and there´s no srug off afterwards.

As a viewer I dont hold those Chlark and Clana scenes as sacred, sometimes I dont even remember those scenes, sometimes from my POV the scenes played suficiently diferent for me to not be disturbed at all, so I dont see this kinds of scenes bothering anyone but the people really attatched to a diferent ship.

People who dont like Clois, never will and will chalk it up to bad writting, to recycling stories, to their ships being destroyed, either way, people arent going to like them anyway, no matte how unique and well written it is, so I say PTB relax and do what you feel like doing, cant please everyone.

eas

10-22-2008, 12:48 PM

I fought the law and the law won. ;)

Spoken like a true law student. :p

True...but if Ollie was seriously soused, would they have helped all that much? I'm genuinely asking. I HAVE been soused before, but I apparently am in that really really small percentage of people who can get hammered but won't get a hangover. As I have been hammered before (oy) but have never experienced anything worse than a little bit of a parched throat upon waking up the next morning - and one glass of water takes care of that pretty well.

I have no experience with being plastered, of course. But I was just speaking from a "why can't I stop feeling like throwing up" perspective. I had a condition, in my first pregnancy, where I couldn't stop getting sick (was even hospitalized a few times) and my body craved salt, even though it was the last thing it needed. Pickles helped keep the nausea at bay.

In this case, I don't know what Lois was going to use it for... she had a pretty extensive list, after all... maybe the pickle was for her? :lol:

It is funny, though. I know a lot of people were upset at Lana wearing one of Clark's shirts in "Wrath" but I wasn't in particular. Could be because I was still feeling nauseated from the scenes leading up to it. Thinking about it now actually makes me feel a little green. :\

I was more upset at the Clana scene where she wears his shirt and the Kents catch them (after they had sex) in "Hidden". It was very similar to the scene in "Gone" when Clark says, "It's not what it looks like." I remember that Clana fans pointed out that in "Hidden" it was a better scene because it was exactly what it looked like. LOL... they were right.

That's another key example of the differences in Clark Kent. At that time, Clark didn't want Lois to wear his shirt and he was embarrassed in front of his parents. Why? Because in "Gone", Lois and Clark weren't friends, he didn't like her, and she was some strange woman going around breaching his personal space. In "Hidden" he voluntarily let Lana wear it and he stood up to his parents & held his ground against their disapproval. Why? Because he loved her. Simple.

By the time she wore his shirt in "Wrath" I think I was numb to the Clana and I didn't even notice.

individuall

10-22-2008, 12:49 PM

:lol: I would have enjoyed that discussion!

It is funny, though. I know a lot of people were upset at Lana wearing one of Clark's shirts in "Wrath" but I wasn't in particular. Could be because I was still feeling nauseated from the scenes leading up to it. Thinking about it now actually makes me feel a little green. :\

ITA. Can we pretend she wore a button down just so we can have those discussions? LOL.

I wasn't bothered in the least in 'Wrath' when Lana put on one of Clarks plaid shirts just for the fact it was a completely different shirt and the episode context of the which it was worn *shudder*...But no it didn't bother me...I do know that it did bother some Clois fans, though:\

You know I wonder why it took Lois an hour to change into the Jersey?...And why in the middle of the kitchen?...I Love drunk Lois :D

----- Added 12 Minutes later -----

I was more upset at the Clana scene where she wears his shirt and the Kents catch them (after they had sex) in "Mortal". It was very similar to the scene in "Gone" when Clark says, "It's not what it looks like." I remember that Clana fans pointed out that in "Mortal" it was a better scene because it was exactly what it looked like. LOL... they were right.

.

I forgot about 'Mortal' LOL. That was a funny/awkward scene
Martha cracks me up when she said something about 'I hope you used protection' or something like that :lol:
Clark looked like he wanted to die right then and there! :rotfl:

eas

10-22-2008, 01:03 PM

I forgot about 'Mortal' LOL. That was a funny/awkward scene
Martha cracks me up when she said something about 'I hope you used protection' or something like that :lol:
Clark looked like he wanted to die right then and there! :rotfl:

Sorry, it was "Hidden"... I wrote the wrong episode's name.

You know what I just realized... there have a been a lot of instances that girls have worn Clark's shirts before!! LOL

Lois also wore Ollie's button down shirt once... maybe we're all over-thinking it & "SV" just thinks that girls look hot in guys' shirts.

Jade4813

10-22-2008, 01:07 PM

Sorry, it was "Hidden"... I wrote the wrong episode's name.

You know what I just realized... there have a been a lot of instances that girls have worn Clark's shirts before!! LOL

Lois also wore Ollie's button down shirt once... maybe we're all over-thinking it & "SV" just thinks that girls look hot in guys' shirts.

And it would be logical to assume Chloe has worn Jimmy's shirts offscreen. At least, it seems that Lois has come home before to find one or both of them sans pants. "You know what Lois likes to see when she gets home! Pants! Pants on everyone!"

individuall

10-22-2008, 01:07 PM

^yeah. Your probably right...And well they are absolutely correct too. Lois looked hot in Ollie's button down...And all the shirts she's worn of Clark's too..:D

This same logic applies to Lana and Chloe too of course..Though I wonder if we'll ever see Chloe wear something of Jimmy's...Not that I want too..Just thinking out loud...

Jade4813

10-22-2008, 01:12 PM

Did Lana wear one of Jason's shirts once, too? And why does it seem to me she was SWIMMING in it when I KNOW JA is nowhere near as HUGE as TW?

eas

10-22-2008, 01:18 PM

And it would be logical to assume Chloe has worn Jimmy's shirts offscreen. At least, it seems that Lois has come home before to find one or both of them sans pants. "You know what Lois likes to see when she gets home! Pants! Pants on everyone!"

:rotfl:

Seriously, that line? Never.gets.old.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

Did Lana wear one of Jason's shirts once, too? And why does it seem to me she was SWIMMING in it when I KNOW JA is nowhere near as HUGE as TW?

Yeah, she did!! I think she was swimming in it...

I always thought that the plaid shirt she wore in "Hidden" wasn't one of Clark's, because it looked too small to be Welling's. Maybe Welling's shirts were just WAY too big. KK is tiny.

But Jensen isn't that much smaller than Welling, to be honest. Especially S5 Welling.

SueB

10-22-2008, 01:31 PM

You either want to look at the big picture and say it's the same or you want to look at the smaller picture and point out the differences.

The big picture comparison is Nicodemus, Devoted & Crimson. All three are the women under extra-terrestrial influence attempting to seduce Clark. Only in Nicodemus did Clark willingly respond and that was because he didn't realize Lana was not herself. Otherwise it seems Clark's standard response is to look out for the other party.

Devoted & Committed are entirely different premises and the only issue is the use of imagery.

As a viewer I dont hold those Chlark and Clana scenes as sacred, sometimes I dont even remember those scenes, sometimes from my POV the scenes played suficiently diferent for me to not be disturbed at all, so I dont see this kinds of scenes bothering anyone but the people really attatched to a diferent ship.

To the casual observer (which I'm not claiming Kal-Ed is a casual observor -- but he's saying this stuff doesn't matter) the details of color/costumes/shot blocking are not a big deal. I would agree that it's just director's choice and be done with it if we hadn't been provided multiple interviews that say otherwise. In the past we have been told unambiguously that the color scheme, the specifics of costuming, and the shot blocking are all deliberate parts of the story telling. They aren't just independent decisions made by various departments. SO, are those people still around? I am not sure --- we know the music guy is gone and I'm fairly certain the script editors are taking a holiday or are asleep at the switch given the easily fixable mistakes that creep in. Why keep the subliminal message monkeys (color/costume/blocking continuity people) on the payroll if they can't keep the music guy? I'm just not sure. BUT, if they are around, they they are probably still putting those touches in for a storytelling purpose.

And yes, Kal-Ed, you may ignore their efforts, but the fact that they actually spend money (if they still are doing this) makes it relevant to the story telling. It is a specific message with a purpose. So..

As a one-off, the jersey is just a "girl wears guy clothes-- ooh sexy". Taken in context with the other imagery moments (the desk shot, the walk & talk, Lois replacing Lana in the barn scenes), I think it has meaning. Let me give a more detailed example of the barn scene. At the end of S7, KK is unavailable and Chloe is doing the barn scenes. The blocking of those shots was really different. It was a different corner of the loft or Chloe was already sitting on the couch in mid-discussion, or it was a tight focus of Clark in the chair. These were not traditional blocking shots for Lana. BUT, for Instinct, it was a classic Clana shot. Clark is brooding at the window. Lois does the slow walk up the stairs while Clark turns around and they have the meaningful chat (insert relevant dialog here). That's imagery in my mind to show Lois is replacing Lana in the barn scenes. The S7 Chloe shots were functional to the script but the S8 shots look intentional to the storytelling.

Too subtle for some? Fair enough. But IF they still are paying those people, then they intend it as part of the story.

Predictions for S8 continued replacement of Chloe/Lana moments with Lois:
- Lois at some point putting her hand on Clark's arm and saying she will always be there for him
- Lois crying over a bleeding Clark as he goes thru an apparent death or near death experience
- Lois and Clark in an elevator or fileroom moment ala Bound or Magnetic
- Lois being the master of the search engine (already started in Committed)

not knowing his secret makes a big deal. If she temporarily knows or permanently knows his secret:
- Lois being caught by Clark after a long fall

Sacred or not, these are images I expect them to expunge from history by remaking them with Clois. If they go the oak tree route... well then it's gone beyond ridiculous. I also don't think we'll get the Vessel kiss moment (unless its a mind-whammie job) because I don't think they'll full-on date --- perhaps a final moment but I really don't expect dating. Then again, I didn't expect Lois to say she loves Clark by episode 5 in S8.

Never know.

ETA: If I was a Cloiser (which I clearly am not), I'd want my own moments and not have repeats. Perhaps they are trying to address the concern that Lois is third choice by trying to one-up the previous intimate moments between Clark and other women. Dustmite was right --- look at youtube ship videos and you see a few dozen scenes over and over again. I don't think it'll work but in the minds of the sublminal monkeys, it could be their game.* Personally I think if you like Clois you either don't care about Lois being third or think it's not true. If you are Clana, there is nothing Lois could do to make up for 7 years of an intense relationship. If you are Chlark, there's probably nothing Lois could do to approach the sincerity and trust Chlark have. So... I think they are kind of wasting their efforts and just irritating fans.

* Again, not sure the subliminal monkeys are still on the payroll. Committed was a plot with a LIE DETECTOR of all things to explain character thinking and motivation --- we kind of had an epic Fail! with the whole "subtle" vibe for that particular plot.

ginnyfan

10-22-2008, 01:37 PM

I don't see what the fuss is all about.

Chloe stole a football jersey, and put it on to try seducing Clark.

Clark gave Lois a football jersey to sleep in. She had to wear something, and Superman t-shirts (Lois' favorite sleeping apparell in the comics) or Superman pyjamas (Lois & Clark) are in short supply on Smallville.

Oh nice! I wish there were pictures. :D I can understand the comparison but...

Thanks for the visual comparison LLL. That was such a cute scene in Devoted between Clark and Chloe. The whole episode was very funny. I held my breath at the end when Chloe admitted that she must have feelings for Clark deep down. The jersey scene in Devoted was nothing like the Committed scene except that both scenes contained Clark and a female in a red jersey.

I think the best thing about the Committed scene was the way Clark was taking care of Lois. It was just so gracious and kind. Also from a shipping POV Clark has seen Lois at her worst (I think drunk!Lois is funny but...she's not proud of her behavior) and met it with an amused smile. :D

DontCha

10-22-2008, 01:38 PM

for goodness sake the scenes aren't even the same

Chloe was under a spell and took clark's practice Jersey. Lois was given the winning game jersey by clark whilst drunk

Chloe was trying to seduce clark. Lois was waking up from a hangover and was not coming onto clark.

SueB

10-22-2008, 01:52 PM

practice Jersey. Lois was given the winning game jersey by clark

See my point? Emphasizing practice jersey for the winning jersey -- an attempt to claim Lois is not third choice but is superior thru imagery (because Lord knows the plot will never get there in the 17 episodes left).

DontCha

10-22-2008, 01:54 PM

no Im explaining how they're different jerseys Its called a practice jersey and Lois' is the game jersey, most commonly seen where he won the game.

I dont even rember seeing him wear that practice jersey?

the one he wore in Devoted had a No 7 on it not 8 and it was see through.

eas

10-22-2008, 01:58 PM

ETA: If I was a Cloiser (which I clearly am not), I'd want my own moments and not have repeats. Perhaps they are trying to address the concern that Lois is third choice by trying to one-up the previous intimate moments between Clark and other women. Dustmite was right --- look at youtube ship videos and you see a few dozen scenes over and over again. I don't think it'll work but in the minds of the sublminal monkeys, it could be their game.* Personally I think if you like Clois you either don't care about Lois being third or think it's not true. If you are Clana, there is nothing Lois could do to make up for 7 years of an intense relationship. If you are Chlark, there's probably nothing Lois could do to approach the sincerity and trust Chlark have. So... I think they are kind of wasting their efforts and just irritating fans.

* Again, not sure the subliminal monkeys are still on the payroll. Committed was a plot with a LIE DETECTOR of all things to explain character thinking and motivation --- we kind of had an epic Fail! with the whole "subtle" vibe for that particular plot.

Interesting analysis.

There is a third option if you're a Cloiser: "You just inherently think your ship kicks all other 'ships a$$es - even if it's just a scene with Lois reading a phone-book and Clark rolling his eyes at her." ;)

SueB

10-22-2008, 02:00 PM

There is a third option if you're a Cloiser: "You just inherently think your ship kicks all other 'ships a$$es - even if it's just a scene with Lois reading a phone-book and Clark rolling his eyes at her."

I call that the "don't care" option -- which I would recommend for every Cloiser.

individuall

10-22-2008, 02:00 PM

Interesting analysis.

There is a third option if you're a Cloiser: "You just inherently think your ship kicks all other 'ships a$$es - even if it's just a scene with Lois reading a phone-book and Clark rolling his eyes at her." ;)

Exactly! :D

WickedJenn

10-22-2008, 02:01 PM

My thoughts when I saw Lois in the jersey?

"Wow, I wish I looked that good when waking up with a huge hangover."

And

"Cool, she has on his jersey. Cute."

Just like when she had on his plaid shirt in "Gone" and this episode.

"Cute, she has on his shirt."

eas

10-22-2008, 02:02 PM

WickedJenn

10-22-2008, 02:03 PM

:lol:

There are times when I analyze things on this show, then there are times when I just tell myself "Just appreciate it for what it was." :)

eas

10-22-2008, 02:03 PM

I call that the "don't care" option -- which I would recommend for every Cloiser.

ETA:

In all seriousness (and the above was a joke) I don't think the TPTB are setting out to 'convert' anyone. I think that they realize that Clark + Lois is endgame and they're trying, in their own way, to write a story that goes with that particular ending. Just like how Clark being a reporter at the DP is endgame and they moved the story in that direction.... they're just going down a path that has been pre-destined for the characters. If some of the road signs look the same, it's because Clark has had a past history with 2 women on this show and there is bound to be some over-lap in his experiences. What matters is how Clark approaches these experiences with Lois and what's different about them - not what's the same.

At least, that's how I choose to view it.

This could be the "I don't care" option or it could be the "I'm a realist" option.

DontCha

10-22-2008, 02:06 PM

you want to know why im getting slightly irritated?

because no one here (cloisers) even cared or thought about the "similar" chlark scene [MOD EDIT] And most of us didnt even think back to chlark or thought that it was an insult to them we liked it because it was its own scene..somewhat similar but pretty much entirely different.

Heck when I saw lois in his shirt then Chloe in his shirt a few episodes later iI didnt even bat an eyelid.

[MOD EDIT]

individuall

10-22-2008, 02:09 PM

ETA:

In all seriousness (and the above was a joke) I don't think the TPTB are setting out to 'convert' anyone. I think that they realize that Clark + Lois is endgame and they're trying, in their own way, to write a story that goes with that particular ending. Just like how Clark being a reporter at the DP is endgame and they moved the story in that direction.... they're just going down a path that has been pre-destined for the characters. If some of the road signs look the same, it's because Clark has had a past history with 2 women on this show and there is bound to be some over-lap in his experiences. What matters is how Clark approaches these experiences with Lois and what's different about them - not what's the same.

At least, that's how I choose to view it.

This could be the "I don't care" option or it could be the "I'm a realist" option.

Very well said...and I whole heartedly agree :)...I was going to post something similiar...But you beat me too it and your response is a lot more elegant and thought out ;)

Kal-ed

10-22-2008, 02:11 PM

To the casual observer (which I'm not claiming Kal-Ed is a casual observor -- but he's saying this stuff doesn't matter) the details of color/costumes/shot blocking are not a big deal. I would agree that it's just director's choice and be done with it if we hadn't been provided multiple interviews that say otherwise. In the past we have been told unambiguously that the color scheme, the specifics of costuming, and the shot blocking are all deliberate parts of the story telling. They aren't just independent decisions made by various departments. SO, are those people still around? I am not sure --- we know the music guy is gone and I'm fairly certain the script editors are taking a holiday or are asleep at the switch given the easily fixable mistakes that creep in. Why keep the subliminal message monkeys (color/costume/blocking continuity people) on the payroll if they can't keep the music guy? I'm just not sure. BUT, if they are around, they they are probably still putting those touches in for a storytelling purpose.

And yes, Kal-Ed, you may ignore their efforts, but the fact that they actually spend money (if they still are doing this) makes it relevant to the story telling. It is a specific message with a purpose. So..

As a one-off, the jersey is just a "girl wears guy clothes-- ooh sexy". Taken in context with the other imagery moments (the desk shot, the walk & talk, Lois replacing Lana in the barn scenes), I think it has meaning. Let me give a more detailed example of the barn scene. At the end of S7, KK is unavailable and Chloe is doing the barn scenes. The blocking of those shots was really different. It was a different corner of the loft or Chloe was already sitting on the couch in mid-discussion, or it was a tight focus of Clark in the chair. These were not traditional blocking shots for Lana. BUT, for Instinct, it was a classic Clana shot. Clark is brooding at the window. Lois does the slow walk up the stairs while Clark turns around and they have the meaningful chat (insert relevant dialog here). That's imagery in my mind to show Lois is replacing Lana in the barn scenes. The S7 Chloe shots were functional to the script but the S8 shots look intentional to the storytelling.

Too subtle for some? Fair enough. But IF they still are paying those people, then they intend it as part of the story.

Predictions for S8 continued replacement of Chloe/Lana moments with Lois:
- Lois at some point putting her hand on Clark's arm and saying she will always be there for him
- Lois crying over a bleeding Clark as he goes thru an apparent death or near death experience
- Lois and Clark in an elevator or fileroom moment ala Bound or Magnetic
- Lois being the master of the search engine (already started in Committed)

not knowing his secret makes a big deal. If she temporarily knows or permanently knows his secret:
- Lois being caught by Clark after a long fall

Sacred or not, these are images I expect them to expunge from history by remaking them with Clois. If they go the oak tree route... well then it's gone beyond ridiculous. I also don't think we'll get the Vessel kiss moment (unless its a mind-whammie job) because I don't think they'll full-on date --- perhaps a final moment but I really don't expect dating. Then again, I didn't expect Lois to say she loves Clark by episode 5 in S8.

Never know.

It DOES matter, never said it didnt, Im only saying that casual viewers (the majority of the viewership) and aparently Cloisers dont mind at all, or regard them as diferent enough not to be distuberd. Casual viewers, most likely wont remember what Chloe wore for a single scene 4 seasons ago and Cloiser´s dont think its specifically addressed to Chlark and find enough diferences of context to see the scene as a completely diferent thing, Lois is not druged, she got the shirt, not stole it, she didnt come on to Clark, it didnt hapen in the loft, it was a friendly/funny scene, not a sexy/funny scene as the Chlark one in devoted; with all this context diferences, the shirt (which is btw diferent as well) seems to be the least of the diferences.

[MOD EDIT] if a ship´s history is being transgressed, Im simply going to enjoy what´s been playing on screen.

I felt bad about the fever letter, specially for the respectfull and objective posters that simply dont like Clois (which is totally fine) and I feel for them and I feel bad that something so sacred to the Chlark ship, was used to enhace other ships but, in this case its diferent.

Im sorry if I got the wrong impresion but there seems to be no way Clois can be acurately protrayed for some: Lois is her snarky usual self "she´s a total b!#ch and it doesnt make sense if Clark falls for her", she softens up "Lightswitch", she disses CLark and "who does she think she is, he´s been nothing but nice to her" she starts developing feelings for him "Lighswitch"... the writers simply cant get it right, no matter what they do, so pointing out that this or that is wrong, or being recycled, etc. it just seems pointless, since pretty much anything no matter what it is, will be wrong.

theotherJane

10-22-2008, 02:14 PM

SupaBoy

10-22-2008, 02:14 PM

Was Lois not also wearing one of Clarks shirts when they went to the Talon?

Jade4813

10-22-2008, 02:15 PM

the one he wore in Devoted had a No 7 on it not 8 and it was see through.

Actually, I think the practice jersey had No 8 on it too.

Me, I tend to look at context and details.

A big picture view would say, "Both girls wore jerseys; thus, one scene stole from the other."

Personally, though, I say, "They wore different jerseys under different circumstances in different contexts to do different things. The scenes were nowhere near the same."

I don't care if one jersey was a "practice" jersey or the other one was a "game jersey" winning or otherwise. I doubt the intent to put that much symbolism into the situations was there - that would mean that, back in "Devoted" TPTB intentionally put Chloe in a jersey that wasn't a winning game jersey, and I doubt they really sat down and put that much thought into it.

I simply think the situations and scenes are entirely different. Thus, one scene did not steal from the other. Also, in doing this, I recognize that the Chlark "Devoted" scene wasn't meant to be marginalized by them intentionally choosing not to put Chloe in a winning game jersey. I don't care about it that much, and I don't think they care about it that much.

SupaBoy

10-22-2008, 02:15 PM

I think you are all reading too much into this. I don't think the writers intended for this to turn into some big ship war. I didn't even think of the Devoted scene when I watched this. Maybe I was the only one...

I didn't either theotherJane!:lol:

WickedJenn

10-22-2008, 02:15 PM

Reminder guys:

No talking about other posters or psychoanalyzing them either.

SueB

10-22-2008, 02:16 PM

These were the initial comments:

If a person also wants to be symbolic about it, then I guess the jersey can represent a couple of other things: Chloe wore the 'practice' jersey and Lois won the "game winning' jersey. Also, Clark gave the jersey Lois and didn't mind she was wearing it and Chloe, in "Devoted", wore it without his permission and he freaked out she was wearing it. (#28 in this thread by eas)

and

Lois was wearing the winning game jersey which was shiny and yellow writing and numbers. (#25 in this thread by Don'tCha)

I think it was reasonable to expressed dismay that a favorite shot was usurped, this is the source of the "Lois is superior (or not)" argument.

Im sorry if I got the wrong impresion but there seems to be no way Clois can be acurately protrayed for some: Lois is her snarky usual self "she´s a total b!#ch and it doesnt make sense if Clark falls for her", she softens up "Lightswitch", she disses CLark and "who does she think she is, he´s been nothing but nice to her" she starts developing feelings for him "Lighswitch"... the writers simply cant get it right, no matter what they do, so pointing out that this or that is wrong, or being recycled, etc. it just seems pointless, since pretty much anything no matter what it is, will be wrong.

You know for me, she's just gotta be more competent, less rude and dress more like a professional woman (ala Apocalypse) and less like a male fantasy of a professional woman (ala the barely-there shirt of Committed). I'd get past alot of the other things. I don't think they need to lightswitch to get there either. How about she has her own plot that shows her realistically researching Tess junk (long stake outs in cars, interviewing people without bribes, berating or B&E) and making stories without Clark. How about she tone down the attitude a bit because she IS obnoxious per her own admission -- it's called growth. And the costuming could be done immediately, I won't complain. If they can't do that, they "no" they won't get her acceptable to me.

DontCha

10-22-2008, 02:19 PM

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

I think you are all reading too much into this. I don't think the writers intended for this to turn into some big ship war. I didn't even think of the Devoted scene when I watched this. Maybe I was the only one...

I didnt either until I read some horrible comments towards it.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----

Reminder guys:

No talking about other posters or psychoanalyzing them either.

sorry. Jenn..Imma stay out of this thread now cuz Im getting wound up lol and i dont want to hurt peoples feelings.

Dustmite

10-22-2008, 02:42 PM

The only people who do care about this particular scene, are some of the people who ship Chlark and regard the Devoted scene as an iconic Chlark scene and are the only one´s who see this as a transgression and most likely would have found somethig else to critizeise if Lois had worn something else and frankly Im getting to a point where I dont really care if feelings are hurt, or if a ship´s history is being transgressed, Im simply going to enjoy what´s been playing on screen.

I'm glad you're enjoying what's on screen but I too am at a point where if I dislike something or I think something was badly handled or didn't enjoy something, I want the right to voice that opinion without being made to feel like I have no right to be upset just because others enjoyed it (wow, that's a really long sentence).

I don't like feeling that I'm in the wrong just because I don't agree with what others are saying. I didn't like this scene and there's no point in me rehashing the why's and how's and others may not care but I care that my ship's history is being destroyed. I care very much.

I felt bad about the fever letter, specially for the respectfull and objective posters that simply dont like Clois (which is totally fine) and I feel for them and I feel bad that something so sacred to the Chlark ship, was used to enhace other ships

I've heard this from so many people and this leads me to believe that TPTB knew exactly what they were doing when they did what they did which makes them big fat crapheads in my book :mad:

Either the scenes are being stolen or they aren't.

IMO the Clana scenes aren't being stolen, the Chlark ones are being ruined *shrug* It's a pattern that they've set this season and if others don't see it, that's cool. Maybe, I'm reading too much into it, maybe I'm being too sensitive, maybe I'm being irrational but I reserve the right to be all three.

WickedJenn

10-22-2008, 02:43 PM

Everyone--

PLEASE keep this civil, this is not the first thread we've had to post a reminder in, it will be closed if things don't remain civil.

eas

10-22-2008, 02:44 PM

I didn't even think of the Devoted scene when I watched this. Maybe I was the only one...

Nope, I didn't notice it. Then, I started to analyze it, once it was pointed out to me.

I did realize, right off the bat, there the scene was supposed to be funny/sexy & that it was obvious they wanted to put Lois in Superman colors & do a bit of foreshadowing with the "Kent" on the back. That, I caught immediately.

I think the foreshadowing was pretty obvious, imo.

Dobson

10-22-2008, 02:49 PM

Personaly I would have prefered they didn't go with a jersey, (or anything else) in either scene. But that's just one man's opinion

theotherJane

10-22-2008, 02:49 PM

Nope, I didn't notice it. Then, I started to analyze it, once it was pointed out to me.

I did realize, right off the bat, there the scene was supposed to be funny/sexy & that it was obvious they wanted to put Lois in Superman colors & do a bit of foreshadowing with the "Kent" on the back. That, I caught immediately.

I think the foreshadowing was pretty obvious, imo.

That's the only thing I made references to. If anything, the writers meant to showcase...A) Superman colors and B) Kent writing on the back since Lois does become Clark's future wife.
It's obvious that people interpret scenes differently, but I can only speak for myself when I say that I didn't think of any of that superior/inferior talk that is being brought up.

cloisthelegendbegins

10-22-2008, 02:49 PM

If we're taking options I take door number 4 - the 'I find ten pages of debate over a shirt amusing' option.

Not gonna stop me from joining in though ;)

Shippers will always see what they see. Arguing it never has a black and white outcome and never will. To me end game is Clark Kent and Lois Lane. Does this mean I don't care how it happens? Nope. If anything it's how the dance begins I'm most fascinated by and why I've enjoyed every single Clois scene in the 'bigger picture' since season four. I do think there is subtle subtext in many of the shots when it comes to lighting and colors and music score but I also think not everyone will catch them. I also think they have to be looked at as part of the larger picture of what else is happening so youtube vids are for shipperdom alone - they're selective. Yes they can show the progression of a relationship, but unless they also show the changes in a relationship in the context of the rest of the show then they are biased.

My take would be when Chloe wore Clark's shirt she donned it on purpose while under the influence of a 'love potion' but there was subtext there regardless. At that point of the show she was crazy about Clark but wasn't doing anything about it. She also dressed up as a cheerleader and made a complete idiot of herself while under the influence. It was all OOC beyond the fact there were under-lying emotions on Chloe's side. When Lois wore the shirt we have to assume Clark gave it to her or she chose it. She wasn't trying to seduce him, she'd already made a complete fool of herself with her drunken speech and taking an hour to change while singing along to Whitesnake. Both girls were under the influence in one way or another. The main difference to me? Lois hadn't 'stolen it' - it was 'given to her'. (because even if she chose it Clark didn't stop her or mention it, unlike he did with Chloe - proof that with Chloe he knew it was OOC) It wasn't OOC for Lois to wear it - she's worn shirts belonging to him before. Only LAST TIME he complained about it. So I could read relationship progression in there if I wanted to...

individuall

10-22-2008, 02:50 PM

Personaly I would have prefered they didn't go with a jersey, (or anything else) in either scene. But that's just one man's opinion

:lol: I'm sure you're not alone ;)

Dustmite

10-22-2008, 02:50 PM

Personaly I would have prefered they didn't go with a jersey, (or anything else) in either scene. But that's just one man's opinion

:lol:

eas

10-22-2008, 02:53 PM

IMO the Clana scenes aren't being stolen, the Chlark ones are being ruined *shrug* It's a pattern that they've set this season and if others don't see it, that's cool. Maybe, I'm reading too much into it, maybe I'm being too sensitive, maybe I'm being irrational but I reserve the right to be all three.

And you should... be able to be all three, I mean.

I just think that what folks are saying is that this isn't the first time that "SV" has taken similar situations and applied them to different ships.

So, in the past, Clana had their pretty awesome moments - and Chlark or Clois would come along and do something very similar. To be honest, I've read more than a few Clana fans' posts (I'm also a member of Sweet) who didn't like it. Of course, they didn't. And why should they?

So, you're saying that this shouldn't happen with Chlark, then that's fine. But, at the very least, acknowledge that Chlark has also 'mimiced' moments from Clana before & we never really heard of a Chlarker being annoyed by it swinging that way before, right? So why is it wrong for Clois fans to not be annoyed now? Of course we're not annoyed.

I'm not saying to offend... I'm just trying to explain where we are coming from. As I said before, the character of Clark on "SV" has had a relationship with Chloe and Lana for 8 years -- and Lois for 5 years -- and there are bound to be similarities between how he interacts with these three women. I don't think we all need to be angry at each other when the similarities are too close for comfort. Nor do I think that it's the writers' intentions to deliberately ruin one ship's moments in favor of another ship in most of these cases.

Sometimes, it's just about the story. And it's a story about Clark Kent - not Lois, Chloe, or Lana. They're supporting characters to his main character. So, if there are similarities between what he does with these 3 women, then the only thing that we need to analyze is how it affects Clark's development. Because that's pretty much the only thing the writers' should be worried about, too.

Ginx

10-22-2008, 02:54 PM

eas

10-22-2008, 02:55 PM

If we're taking options I take door number 4 - the 'I find ten pages of debate over a shirt amusing' option....

:lol:

Excellent point.

rosalba

10-22-2008, 03:03 PM

I think people are reading in to much of some little details like the shirt. to me it doesnt' matter if Chloe wear the same shirt or different..that doesn't change tha fact that Clark took care of Lois and probably gave her wharever shirt he had available.It really doesn't matter since Clark was never in love with Chloe..so she can wear any shirt of his, but to me doesn't mean anything.

Guidron

10-22-2008, 03:04 PM

:lol:

There are times when I analyze things on this show, then there are times when I just tell myself "Just appreciate it for what it was." :)

TRUTH!

For my own $0.02, While they may have donned that particular shirt to play up the imagery of colors, the 8 (which happens to be the El family crest) and the Kent name, I highly doubt that it was done as a means of usurping the scene where Chloe wears Clarks jersey.

Dustmite

10-22-2008, 03:06 PM

So, you're saying that this shouldn't happen with Chlark, then that's fine. But, at the very least, acknowledge that Chlark has also 'mimiced' moments from Clana before & we never really heard of a Chlarker being annoyed by it swinging that way before, right? So why is it wrong for Clois fans to not be annoyed now? Of course we're not annoyed.

I don't want you guys to be annoyed at all. I just don't want to be painted as completely doolally because I do happen to be annoyed and I happen to think that I have good reason to be annoyed. If this hadn't come just after Instinct then maybe I wouldn't be as ragey as I am now but it did and therefore I am.

But, at the very least, acknowledge that Chlark has also 'mimiced' moments from Clana before & we never really heard of a Chlarker being annoyed by it swinging that way before, right?

I honestly can't remember a big Clana scene that was mimicked by Chlark. Maybe it's because I'm not looking for them but if Clana fans have been annoyed in the past by Chlark stealing scenes from them then I would recognize their right to be annoyed. I would probably present my side of the argument but I wouldn't (or at least I hope I wouldn't) make them feel that they're in the wrong for being upset.

Nor do I think that it's the writers' intentions to deliberately ruin one ship's moments in favor of another ship in most of these cases.

This is where our opinions differ, I most definietly think they do these things on purpose and I think they are the spawn of Satan. Maybe a few months down the line from Instict I'll begin to think differently.

I'm also a member of Sweet because they're always on top of KK news and I adore her but I don't venture out of her threads because I'm guessing they probably don't like Chlark as much as I do ;)

Kalista

10-22-2008, 03:14 PM

I just don't want to be painted as completely doolally because I do happen to be annoyed and I happen to think that I have good reason to be annoyed.

I honestly can't remember a big Clana scene that was mimicked by Chlark. Maybe it's because I'm not looking for them but if Clana fans have been annoyed in the past by Chlark stealing scenes from them then I would recognize their right to be annoyed. I would probably present my side of the argument but I wouldn't (or at least I hope I wouldn't) make them feel that they're in the wrong for being upset.

I think that's the point.

zorasuperman

10-22-2008, 03:33 PM

lol lois's quote of "lois likes seeing pants. pants on EVERYONE."
did she forget she was not wearing pants less than 10 minutes or so when she was at clark's house?

ginnyfan

10-22-2008, 03:42 PM

^She didn't seem to happy about her state of dress. LOL!

zorasuperman

10-22-2008, 03:45 PM

lol yea she def wasn't too pleased about being half clothed but still dont be hypocritical of jimmy and chloe wearing pants. lol

ginnyfan

10-22-2008, 03:46 PM

LOL! Yes... somewhere deep down Lois probably enjoys going pants-less.

Atomic girl

10-22-2008, 04:00 PM

MOD NOTE: This thread is for discussing the scene in Committed with Lois wearing Clark's football jersey - NOTHING MORE. Please keep your comments to your take on the scene and anything constructive (positive or negative)to go along with it. No ship bashing, no post bashing, no character bashing and no poster bashing!!! Do not try to explain another poster's post, try to sway someone to your way of thinking, or try to put anyone in their place. If you don't like what someone has posted, let it stand and let others come to their own conclusion of the post/poster. As always the report post button can be used.

geminis

10-22-2008, 04:36 PM

I'm going to say it again. Lana in Clark's plaid had me Wrathfully seeing red. Lois, Chloe, and Lana all had me feeling green in two shades: first, sick because of how good they looked in his clothes; second, jealous. Because they're WEARING HIS CLOTHES! Pantless! How lucky can a girl get?!

Maybe instead of the jersey, they could have had Lois wrapped up in Clark's Warrior Angel cape; I think nobody would mind stealing a moment from Rachel and that would have been a cool nod to THLois and DCClark. BRING BACK THE CAPE!!!! (and please put Lois in it.:D)

Sorry for shouting; :ogreen jealous raging and pathetic pleading got the better of me for a moment.

Topic. Stay on topic: Lois + football jersey = hot. No wonder Clark didn't think she needed pants. ;)

Jade4813

10-22-2008, 04:41 PM

Topic. Stay on topic: Lois + football jersey = hot. No wonder Clark didn't think she needed pants. ;)

I would love to see ED trying to keep TW's pants up. How much would they have to cinch that belt??? :lol:

Yeah, the jersey scene was sexier without ED tripping over pants that had fallen around her ankles.

tibbit78

10-22-2008, 04:43 PM

I saw some pictures of Erica Durance in the Football Jersey and her makeup was beautiful in the photographs. The Football Jersey and her makeup were very colorful.

Kalista

10-22-2008, 04:57 PM

Maybe instead of the jersey, they could have had Lois wrapped up in Clark's Warrior Angel cape; I think nobody would mind stealing a moment from Rachel and that would have been a cool nod to THLois and DCClark. BRING BACK THE CAPE!!!! (and please put Lois in it.:D)

I thought they could have done this as well.

abbaspice1

10-22-2008, 05:05 PM

For purely artistic reasons, I love this scene:

A HOT woman
A Football jersey (my fav sport)
Whitesnake (one of my fav groups)

All rolled into one!!!!

How can anyone complain about that?

Lois looked so HOT in that championship jersey! I would have loved to hear her sing Whitesnake.

Of course, then Clark admits to holding her hair as she got sick? That's sweet!

LaneKent-Hero

10-22-2008, 06:20 PM

*yawns at the last 4-5 pages*

And now that we are done overanalyzing everything, let's go back ON TOPIC.

Lois wearing the football jersey was hot.

I've never seen anyone look so good with one on.

Seriously, Erica's legs are what dreams are made up.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

I saw some pictures of Erica Durance in the Football Jersey and her makeup was beautiful in the photographs. The Football Jersey and her makeup were very colorful.
Oh, the woman looked divine.

Seriously, she looked flawlessly. I love women in jerseys and nothing else. It's just tantalizing.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

The one Chloe wore was red and white. This one was red and yellow. They are different jerseys.
See. I noticed this when I first watched it and told my sister, Superman colors on the jersey! Lol and she was like. Okay. The "8" also stands for an "S" so you have Lois wearing a jersey with Superman colors and a symbolic "S" -- what more could a clois fan want?

*sighs happy tune*

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----

not exactly^^^its a different jersey, its the winning game jersey, chloe's was the practice jersey.

and BTW lois was the first one to wear one of clarks shirts not chloe Dustmite & RedK, She was the first one to be naked and wearing one of his shirts, not chloe. So one could easily say that when chloe wore one it was bad writing and copying. But i dont feel that way at all.

BINGO! Before Lana, before Chloe, LOIS LANE wore one of Clark's shirt and nothing else.

End of story.

eas

10-22-2008, 06:45 PM

Topic. Stay on topic: Lois + football jersey = hot. No wonder Clark didn't think she needed pants. ;)

LOL... in some ways, the jersey covered her more than her plum dress.

That was also HOT... she looked so gorgeous... I missed my pre-pregnancy figure so bad when I saw her in that dress. Talk about green with envy.

Jade4813

10-22-2008, 06:48 PM

See. I noticed this when I first watched it and told my sister, Superman colors on the jersey! Lol and she was like. Okay. The "8" also stands for an "S" so you have Lois wearing a jersey with Superman colors and a symbolic "S" -- what more could a clois fan want?

*sighs happy tune*

I could tell you I want one thing.

A jersey just like it.

And to look as hot in it as she did. Because DAY-UM, she was smoking hot!

*sigh*

Okay, maybe two things. ;)

Minela

10-22-2008, 06:55 PM

eas

10-22-2008, 07:12 PM

And to look as hot in it as she did.

Uh... to be honest, I want that more than the jersey.

Jade4813

10-22-2008, 07:17 PM

Uh... to be honest, I want that more than the jersey.

Touche. ;)

Minela

10-22-2008, 07:21 PM

I agree. She could have worn the flannel shirt from Crusade that she was wearing later on in the episode.

Not really. The jersey is a uniform. Just like Superman's suit is sort of a uniform. When other incarnations of Lois Lane have worn nothing but the red and yellow cape, they wanted this Lois to wear that, too. The game Jersey is symbolic of the Superman cape in this particular instance. A plaid shirt wouldn't have cut it. Sorry.

geminis

10-22-2008, 07:25 PM

Uh... to be honest, I want that more than the jersey.

Greedy; want both. :o:lol:

eas

10-22-2008, 08:36 PM

Greedy; want both. :o:lol:

:lol:

Well, if we're being greedy, then I'll add Clark into the mix... not only do I want his jersey and her body... I want his body (without the jersey) waking up next to me. ;)

geminis

10-22-2008, 08:59 PM

:lol:

Well, if we're being greedy, then I'll add Clark into the mix... not only do I want his jersey and her body... I want his body (without the jersey) waking up next to me. ;)

Now this, I can agree with! :lol:

WickedJenn

10-22-2008, 09:01 PM

*sigh*

I'm tired and my brain's numb.

I need some more Clark and Lois-in-his-jersey scenes, thank you.

zHeN_zHeN

10-23-2008, 12:23 AM

Lois + football jersey = hot. No wonder Clark didn't think she needed pants. ;)

:rotfl:

Yup, Clark gave Lois his jersey just so he could see Lois waking up in it! Mmm, I'm lovin' Naughty Clarkie... hehe ;) :D

individuall

10-23-2008, 12:31 AM

lol yea she def wasn't too pleased about being half clothed but still dont be hypocritical of jimmy and chloe wearing pants. lol

I don't think she was being hypocritical she wanted to make sure she didn't walk in on Jimmy and Chloe...er... Being intimate ;)

amalie

10-23-2008, 07:13 AM

This scene was wonderful in terms of symbolism. I confess I rarely notice the little details while I'm watching an episode, I usually just get sucked into the drama and forget the technical stuff, but on repeat viewing and with some of your insights it all comes together nicely.

The colours of the jersey, the name on the back and the fact that it was his champion shirt really say a lot. I loved those little things.

Clark definitely showed how much he's matured since Lois last wore his clothing.

Kel-El09

10-23-2008, 11:34 AM

Atomic girl

10-23-2008, 12:11 PM

eas

10-23-2008, 12:22 PM

QUESTION: Do you think that Lois found that herself to wear, and then took an hour to get it on...or did Clark give it to her to wear. Because...if Clark gave it to her, that's kind of wierd...why not just give her a plaid shirt or something. But if Lois did it, it's still kind of questionable, because hasn't his Jersey been in that "Glory Days" trunk?

I think he gave it to her. If it took her an hour to get out of her dress, I can't imagine she was steady enough to go to the loft, find the shirt, and come back down to the kitchen to change. (And why would she change in the kitchen, if she found it in his loft?)

I don't she ever even went up to the stairs... I think he brought it down to her and then settled her in on the sofa.

amalie

10-23-2008, 12:25 PM

I think he gave it to her. If it took her an hour to get out of her dress, I can't imagine she was steady enough to go to the loft, find the shirt, and come back down to the kitchen to change. (And why would she change in the kitchen, if she found it in his loft?)

I don't she ever even went up to the stairs... I think he brought it down to her and then settled her in on the sofa.

I agree, it seems most likely that Clark gave her the shirt. I can't imagine her making her way up the stairs in her state, then coming down to change in the Kitchen. It had to be Clark.

LovelyLoisLane

10-23-2008, 12:27 PM

I think the jersey was more symbolic of Lois being embraced by "Smallville" (the person, not the town) as the jersey was in SV High colors of black yellow and red. If it even was symbolic, or meant to be. Obviously whenever you put Lois Lane in vibrant red it leans towards a Supes reference, but the blanket was baby blue.

I don't think everything is a Supes anvil just because the colors match. Which in that case the blue didn't and neither did the black, and if anyone says that 'Superman's hair is black' you are getting a pumpkin pie in the face. Just sayin'

Honestly though? Sometimes a jersey is just a jersey and it looks sexy on an already fine looking woman. I actually am enjoying this season the most because of the lack of anvils. Not that there aren't ANY anvils, but they have been decreased from previous seasons, leaving more actual storytelling. In my opinion at least. So I don't really think it was that 'symbolic' in so far as just cute, adding more cuteness to an already nice scene.

I enjoyed it as such.

Kal-ed

10-23-2008, 12:36 PM

huh??? were we (cloiser) upset and up in arms about Clana stealing a Clois scene??:confused:

Well, obviously I wasnt, I hadnt even thought about the fact that they were both wearing a plaid shirt, i dont think I was even posting in this site at the time, can someone tell me if we did complain...

LovelyLoisLane

10-23-2008, 12:40 PM

In case anyway is actually interested in the topic, this is it.

Did anyone notice in the scene where Lois wakes up on the Kent Farm, wearing the Smallville High Football Jersey, that there's a Luthorcorp insignia on it. I thought it was a nice potential nod to Season 4, when Lex bought the Smallville High School Football team new jersey's.

amalie

10-23-2008, 12:44 PM

...and if anyone says that 'Superman's hair is black' you are getting a pumpkin pie in the face. Just sayin'

:rotfl:

It never crossed my mind, but now you mention it...:p

eas

10-23-2008, 12:49 PM

And that is all I'm going to say on that subject, so if you want to quote me, do whatever floats your paper boat but don't expect a response or expect me to read your response to this subject, because I've had enough and I'm done. For today at least.

Could we get back to the topic now if you please?

Uhh... not that I didn't love your post and all (and I agree) but we kind of moved on from this discussion last night... pretty early last night. And you were one of the ones who reminded us to... LOL.

Sorry, but this post was a little out of the blue. You regressed like Clark regresses around Lana! :p ;) We've been on topic for awhile now... ;)

LuckyLois

10-23-2008, 12:53 PM

Well I for one thought Erica looked drop dead gorgeous in that jersey and I think Clark gave it to her to wear! I love Chloe too, but people must really think that there is a conspiracy going on and ED is sabotaging the wardrobe dept. I won't even go in these threads because people get mad at her and her character for everything, it's so silly.

LovelyLoisLane

10-23-2008, 12:57 PM

I'm not going to quote you 'eas' because it will continue a downward spiral that I'd rather avoid, but you're right. I saw the argument a few pages and back and there was something on this page that seemed to be going in that direction so I thought I'd head it off, but considering my sheer hatred of alot of threads becoming shipper wars I don't want to perpetuate a topic that already got dropped. So I edited myself.

I do that a lot but I'm too poor to afford an editor all the time so I still have typos.

As far as the 'hour changing' thing goes, I'm still leaning towards some of that time going towards Lois calling Chloe to tell her how sweet Clark was. We don't know how long that message was because Lois quickly deleted it. There could have been more to it, and knowing how I like to ramble when I'm toasted there probably was.

eas

10-23-2008, 12:59 PM

^ Deleted my post... no worries. :)

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

I think the jersey was more symbolic of Lois being embraced by "Smallville" (the person, not the town) as the jersey was in SV High colors of black yellow and red. If it even was symbolic, or meant to be. Obviously whenever you put Lois Lane in vibrant red it leans towards a Supes reference, but the blanket was baby blue.

I don't think everything is a Supes anvil just because the colors match. Which in that case the blue didn't and neither did the black, and if anyone says that 'Superman's hair is black' you are getting a pumpkin pie in the face. Just sayin'

Honestly though? Sometimes a jersey is just a jersey and it looks sexy on an already fine looking woman. I actually am enjoying this season the most because of the lack of anvils. Not that there aren't ANY anvils, but they have been decreased from previous seasons, leaving more actual storytelling. In my opinion at least. So I don't really think it was that 'symbolic' in so far as just cute, adding more cuteness to an already nice scene.

I enjoyed it as such.

Honestly.... in this case, I think it was both.

1) Anvil to Superman's suit. (The "8" is the House of El symbol, which will be the Superman symbol soon enough....) Most of the time, on this show, it *is* a Superman anvil when they opt to play up the Superman. Sometimes, it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

2) She looked damn fine and they knew she'd look damn fine.

At the end, I enjoyed it for a variety of reasons: it was fun, sexy, humorous, filled with fun foreshadowing, and they both looked hot.

I really don't ask for much more in my "SV" scenes, to tell you the truth.