Lois & Clark in "Smallville" = AWKWARD!!

[ManofSteelo]

Don't get me wrong, because I love the chemistry between Welling and Durance (though she really acts circles around him most of the time in their scenes), but this whole L&C transplant into Smallville, I think, has upset what little ballast this show has had over the years, in terms of its overall direction and tone. I wasn't totally sold on the whole Clark-to-Metropolis thing from the beginning, since it pretty much takes the Smallville-ishness out of the show and is trying to make up perceived lost ground from the Gough/Millar Era in order to get to Clark's ultimate destiny as Superman, but I'm trying to give it a chance, since this show might not be on this time next year, anyway.

All of this Metropolis business seems forced: from Clark's sudden employment at the Daily Planet (with no physical disguise [he's still Smallvillle Clark] or real direction from higher-ups -- Lois is his boss?), to how Tess switches between Luthor Mansion and the Daily Planet as her base of operations, and how Oliver is sometimes in the picture in Metropolis, sometimes not, and Chimmy's pending nuptials, and where is Davis Bloom? (Whew!)

But this post is really about Lois & Clark. Because if you remove that whole element from last night's show, then you're just left with one of those annoyingly generic "filler" episodes that we see nearly three times a year -- the ones with a no-name villain and contrived plot that doesn't really serve to further anything relevant or indespensible to the season's general story arc, but are probably included to fill out the network's total episode demand for the season (or something along those lines). And, all of the dramatic irony notwithstanding as it relates to L&C's relationship thus far, this show seems to be really confused about what it's trying to be every week -- especially if they're going to tease us with a Lois-loves-Clark revelation and then put that stuff on hold and go back to their heretofore established Smallville relationship of verbal jousts and feigned dislike of each other, in order to delay as long as possible the inevitable L&C hook-up per all Superman continuities, which allows the show to deal with the other aforementioned un-integrated plot elements they've unleashed from Pandora's Box for this season.

Hey, it's great to get a breath of fresh air once in a while and have an episode that may be "fun" or "fan-friendly", the but the sign of a strong show is when the overall season obejctive is still pursued while stopping at various points of interest along the way (last week's "Instinct" with the re-imagining of Maxima is a good example). Because it's really annoying to have such a great fanboy element as L&C trumpeted out as a major episode event, only to see it recede into the background in later weeks as if it never happened -- only to be revived later on, out of the blue, as if it's been part of the status quo from the beginning. :confused:

[stenochick]

Thanks for taking the time to post all that. I can tell you put a lot of thought into it.

I don't know, to me it seems like the Clois banter and the episodes like Committed where Lois is forced to confess her love for Clark under threat of torture are not a back and forth but part of the ongoing progression of their friendship and love.

They both get really snarky with each other in order to hide their true feelings from each other. Neither of them are like that with anyone else on the show.

Now, with episodes like Crimson where we get to see them in love because they are under a spell and then Lois doesn't even remember it -- that I can see as totally unnecessary at this point.

It was their decision to introduce Lois in season 4, and since they did that, one can only expect that by season 8, there would be some progression with Lois and Clark. Had they waited to bring Lois in, then perhaps they could have had Clark sport the eyeglasses and get an internship at the Planet and then meet Lois for the first time there. But, they did not go that route. So, here we are in season 8 with loads of Clois sexual tension.

[SVsleuth]

I posted this in another thread, but we decided to move the discussion here:

I posted:
PS3,

I just want you to know that there are many fans who see things very differently from most of the fans on K-Site. My thoughts after Committed:

Why'd you make Lois drunk AGAIN? That does nothing to help me believe that Clark could ever really fall for her.

If Clark starts discovering deep down "feelings" for Lois that he never knew he had, it just seems totally contrived. First he has to have Maxima telling him Lois is his destiny. Then he has to learn through a lie detector that Lois may really love him, even though she denies it later. And only after that will he suddenly wonder if maybe he can give it a shot with Lois? It reminds me of what happened with Chloe way back when. In both cases, Clark has no romantic interest until the moment when he learns that she has feelings for him. THEN, he consideres the posssibility of trying a relationship with her. It doesn't scream "iconic love" to me. It comes across, in both cases, that he'll try to settle for this woman since he can't have Lana.

Now, actually, that is perfectly fine by me, since I've always been a diehard Clana fan. I'd love nothing more than for you guys to forget the traditional "iconic relationship" and CHANGE EVERYTHING. On this show, however, the message keeps coming across that Clark's destiny, both to be Superman and to be with Lois, is predetermined for him & he has no choice. We end up with the message that we don't have control over our own destinies, that our future is all mapped out for us. That's depressing. We DO have free will.

Clark would share with Lana that he's been having weird experiences lately - like people constantly trying to push him toward being with Lois, & telling him that he's destined to be with her. He shares his frustration with the whole concept of "destiny" & how people want him to believe his future is mapped out for him & he has no choice. He tells Lana that no matter how many people keep insisting that he is destined for some certain future, he doesn't believe that. He believes he has free will and can make his future be anything he wants it to be, and be with anyone he chooses to be with.][/SIZE]

If you guys plan to go ahead with the Clois, I REALLY can't stand for it to be done in a manner that makes it seem like Clark has no choice, it was just written in the stars, & he doesn't control his own destiny. But the way you're going about it, that IS the message that is coming across. It doesn't help me to let go of Clana and move toward Clois.

As for Clark & Lana. They've gone through a lot together. And I see them as finally at a place where they can be completely open and honest with one another, about everything. I would REALLY like to see them spend some time together in the loft talking everything out - from the events of Reckoning, to the fake baby - showing us that they finally have come to a place where they are hiding nothing from one another, & are comfortable confiding completly in each other. I'd like to see them reaffirm that they will always hold each other in a special place in their hearts. I'd like to see them discuss that Clark ought to go do his training, because there are real threats to the world. I'd like Lana to have discovered something she is passionate about as she heads off to find her own place in the world. And I'd like for you to leave open the possibility of future romantic involvement by them - leave it in such a way that Clana fans can hold on to the hope that maybe someday far in the future, they may make their way back to each other (not to be shown on the show, though).

I know there are a lot of long time comics fans and Lois & Clark fans, who just want to see the traditional "iconic" Clois, & so seem to be able to just buy into any way you come up with to do it. But you guys are cheating. I want you to take a look at this entire series from the perspective of a viewer who has never read comics, & never watched movies or other Superman series. You can't depend on those things to tell YOUR story for you. YOUR story is the one YOU have told. YOUR Lois is a drunken college dropout slut who bosses Clark around and mistreats him (& who got her job by sleeping with the boss rather than on her journalistic merits - seems to be the opposite of the image Lois was meant to portray - that women can succeed in a man's world on their merits). What man in his right mind in 2008 would WANT a woman like that? I'm saying you have to step back and look objectively at the Lois YOU'VE created, [I]only the Smallville Lois. Her best scenes with Clark to date were in the episode LUCY. Why? Because it was shown that underneath the tough exterior, she actually does have a heart, & actually has a vulnerable side that she rarely lets anyone see. IF you want to convince me -and other viewers who are not predetermined toward the Clois just because of comics history - that Clark truly falls head over heels in love with Lois, you have to show more of the side of Lois that you showed in that episode - a side that opens up to Clark in a way she doesn't with anyone else. And you have to show Clark reciprocating that, because even though it is always hard for him to open up, he's learned from the mistakes he made with Lana and won't repeat them with Lois. I honestly don't see how you can succeed in doing this, after the way Lois has been portrayed on Smallville. She's not a likable person, not at all a role model for girls.

To the Clois fans I say, pretend her name is NOT Lois Lane. Step back and see what they've written her to be on THIS show. She's a drunk, she sleeps around, she treats Clark like crap. She either has to have a total 180 turn in her personality, or Clark needs therapy for allowing himself to get into an unhealthy relationship. In any event, whatever spin you want to put on things, Clark MUST be shown in the end to have LEARNED from his mistakes with Lana and not repeat them with Lois. And Lois needs to be shown to make positive changes in her life, so as to be worthy of Superman. She doesn't come across as anywhere NEAR worthy of him at this point - NOT the way you've written her. Maybe she never has been. Maybe Clois is NOT the end of the story. Maybe he'll discover something much more rewarding beyond it.eas replied:


Dear PS3,

I just wanted to remind you that there are a LOT of viewers out there who enjoy the Clark and Lois relationship for reasons other than it being "iconic". Some viewers (myself included) happen to think that the show has made an excellent case for neither Lana or Chloe being Clark's ideal woman & that Lois is, in fact, the perfect person for him.

I know that it's tempting to coast with the Clois, because everyone knows that Lois Lane is his destined wife... but I like that you're not doing that. AlMiles spent that last 7 years explaining exactly why Chloe and Lana don't work. (Amongst other things, the fact that Lana has no problem killing someone or attempting to kill somebody and her need to be with a man at all times.) And, NOW, in S8 you guys are showing why Lois WILL work.

Good job on it so far -- KEEP IT UP!!!

I replied:


eas said, "NOW, in S8 you guys are showing why Lois WILL work."

Please spell this out for me. I really want to know what you Clois fans see that I don't. I DON'T see that being shown at all. I really DO want to see WHY Lois works, but I don't see any reasons being shown. What are they? Please list them for me.

A lot of Clana fans have bailed out on the show. I haven't. I'm watching because I really want to understand WHY Clark and Lois can be together. But I'm not seeing it. All I saw was an alien queen telling them they are "destined" to be together, Lois suddenly out of nowhere discovering she has feelings for Clark that were never there before, and Lois treating Clark like she owns him, ordering him around, putting him down, etc.

Maybe it's too soon. Maybe they'll show more reasons later in the season. But so far, if there are REAL reasons for them to be developing feelings for each other, I've missed it. Help me out here, please.eas replied:


There's an excellent Clois thread in the "Committed" section... I'll be happy to go into details there. But this thread isn't for that discussion.So is this thread a better place to discuss this? Please answer, eas & other Clois fans. Thanks.

[Melekith]

Hooray for my first post!

I've always taken this show with a grain of salt. Some episodes are really really good and some are extremely bad. But what keep sme coming back to show every week ARE the relationships and subtle-hints that keep appearing. I don't find Lois and Clark and their unique form of chemitry to be awkward at all. I enjoy their screen time alot. Anyone who has EVER had a crush on someone can relate to those types of things.

As far as this season's direction...I just see it as smallville without the farm. We still have the drama, the same "clark saves someone/something" plot-lines, and the same master villian (tess replaces lex). For those of you upset that the show isn't following the mythos properly...well I hate to say it, but you should have stopped watching after season 4.

For example, in Superman: The Movie we see Clark Kent at the age of 18 build the FoS (Jor-El says something like "my son, by now my crystal has called you, and 18 years shall have passed on earth"), immediately undergo his training which take 12 years and then arrive in Metropolis at age 30. By having Smallville's Clark in Metropolis at 24ish you can see that it's meant to be different.

[individuall]

Welcome to ksite Melekith :D


SVsleuth I don't understand one thing and I'll admit I didn't read the entire post, in fact I stopped at the first line because I was like..HUH?... What does Lois being drunk have anything to do with Clark falling for her? She's an adult of Legal age at a social event, in which she's highly emotional and she gets drunk *gasp* normal people do that all the time! And we haven't seen Lois drunk since season 4...Granted she was under age then, but she was at college...It happens..Trust me from experience...Now we have seen her drink on the show...But this is only the second time for drunk Lois on screen...Unless I'm having a dumb moment.
So I just don't get that logic at all..Sorry.

[Clana4Life]

ManofSteel,

I agree. I have to separate SV from the Superman Movies (Reeve version), because it is so different. They set SV up as some great Clark/Lana romance show with the two of them being painted to be the end game. That's how the writers wrote the show for at least 6 Seasons. Season 7 might be debatable, but I still say they were painting it as such. Even when they said they were broken up for good, they let them get back together. So is very awkward when we get a Clois Season 8. When the writers spend 7 years on one relationship, I forget about the "iconic love". I think they should have brought Lois on in Season 8 for the first time and let Clark gradually fall for her first. One of the things that I find particularly irritating is the way SV Lois treats Clark. Since they have some sort of friendship, she feels she can be so familiar with him and treat him this way. I think if they were strangers, more respect might be given to him. And they could fall for each other without silly, contrived barriers. It would be nice to see Clark falling for her - I mean actually falling for her, not "supposedly being in love with her" without knowing or realizing that. But what can you do now - she's been on the show since Season 4. This is a very different story from mythos, comics or the movies. You just have to look at it as the Alternative Kal-El Story.

[mytvtalk]

miles and gouch stalled for so many years its about time we are shown progression

[pizzahead2490]

i am rather pleased with the clois progression. that is kind of the reason why i watch the show.

[6-Super-Man -5]

Yeah, PS3 is doing a much BETTER job then the previous producers.

[Cyn]

I posted this in another thread, but we decided to move the discussion here:

I posted:eas replied:



I replied:

eas replied:

So is this thread a better place to discuss this? Please answer, eas & other Clois fans. Thanks.

You want Clark & Lana to have the time to sit and talk honestly to each other? Well, they already had that chance and they didn't do it. Lana knew Clark's secrets and they lived together for over half of last season. I think both Clark and Lana knew if they really sat down and discussed their relationship, it would come to an end. I really do feel sorry for Clark & Lana though. They truly did love each other, but they brought out each other's worst characteristics. When they were together Lana was selfish and emotionally manipulative and Clark became obsessive and weak. I really didn't like either character when they were together. I think Millar/Gough did an excellent job of showing just how draining this type of relationship can be. Clark neither could nor would have become Superman while involved with Lana.

As for Lois, I like her. She is gutsy and straightforward and I like that. Also, even when Lois has to be rescued, I don't think of her as a victim..."Poor Lois, who's attacked her now?" never enters my mind. I can't deny that she has her faults, but perfect and saintly = boring.

Do I think Lois & Clark should be in a relationship at this time? Eh, maybe. All I know is that I love watching them together. The scenes are usually funny, sly and Clark smiles a lot. After 7 seasons of angst, I need something to smile about and I think Clark does too.

[SVsleuth]

I think I'm beginning to get it. Clois fans just prefer light entertainiment and comedy to drama and deep emotional struggles. And that's about all it amounts to. They don't even care if Clark & Lois have a deep emotional bond or not, as long as they get "fun" scenes.

Clana fans are just a different type of fan. We're in it for the overarching story of the ebb & flow of a relationship, with all it's ups and downs, and want to see that played out to a final conclusion, one way or another, the way Al/Miles originally envisioned before they ever brought Lois onto Smallville. We don't think Lois ever belonged on Smallville, because THIS story was supposed to be the story of young Clark Kent & his relationship with Lana, and how she influenced him toward his destiny. That story should have ended in 5 seasons, with Clark and Lana parting for him to go train. After that, if they wanted to do a Lois & Clark sequel, I'd have been fine with that. I'd love for them to show me how it turned out that Lois is a better match for him at that point in his life. But, for SMALLVILLE, they intended to tell the Clana story, but then shifted things in order to stretch the show out to 3 or 4 extra seasons beyond the story they wanted to tell. I wish they would have let Clark go train & let Clana have their bittersweet ending in season 4 or five. Then they could have come back with "5 years later" or something & told the Clois story. It's painful the way they've continued to drag out the Clana, on & off, on & off. For what purpose? It seems like whenever they thought they were nearing the "end" of the series, they'd always put Clark & Lana back together. It seemed they wanted to have them together so they could create a bittersweet parting, & leave it to our imaginations what happens in the future when he returns as Superman. We just wish they would have finished telling the darn story arc they had in mind. THEN, they could do whatever they wanted with Clois, some years later & we'd be fine with it. The ages of the actors would easily make a time jump of years possible, & make Clark's falling for Lois more believable, with more distance between that time and the ending of the Clana.

[redeem147]

I've never been a Clana fan. I found her cloying to be honest and watched the show despite her. That's not a knock on Kristen Kruek, who I think is a very good actress. Ever since Erica Durance joined the show as Lois I've been waiting for the Clois to develop, since she and Tom Welling clicked so well from the beginning.

I didn't find Lois' admission under torture that she loves Clark to be light in any way. But I also enjoy banter in a relationship - that doesn't mean it can't also be deeply emotional. I'm a fan of the comics, and this seems truer to the spirit of them to me.

This season is taking off like a race horse finally let out of the gate, and I for one am very happy with that. Lana represents high school Clark, and Lois is the woman for the man.

[RedKRules]

Don't get me wrong, because I love the chemistry between Welling and Durance (though she really acts circles around him most of the time in their scenes), but this whole L&C transplant into Smallville, I think, has upset what little ballast this show has had over the years, in terms of its overall direction and tone. I wasn't totally sold on the whole Clark-to-Metropolis thing from the beginning, since it pretty much takes the Smallville-ishness out of the show and is trying to make up perceived lost ground from the Gough/Millar Era in order to get to Clark's ultimate destiny as Superman, but I'm trying to give it a chance, since this show might not be on this time next year, anyway.

All of this Metropolis business seems forced: from Clark's sudden employment at the Daily Planet (with no physical disguise [he's still Smallvillle Clark] or real direction from higher-ups -- Lois is his boss?), to how Tess switches between Luthor Mansion and the Daily Planet as her base of operations, and how Oliver is sometimes in the picture in Metropolis, sometimes not, and Chimmy's pending nuptials, and where is Davis Bloom? (Whew!)

But this post is really about Lois & Clark. Because if you remove that whole element from last night's show, then you're just left with one of those annoyingly generic "filler" episodes that we see nearly three times a year -- the ones with a no-name villain and contrived plot that doesn't really serve to further anything relevant or indespensible to the season's general story arc, but are probably included to fill out the network's total episode demand for the season (or something along those lines). And, all of the dramatic irony notwithstanding as it relates to L&C's relationship thus far, this show seems to be really confused about what it's trying to be every week -- especially if they're going to tease us with a Lois-loves-Clark revelation and then put that stuff on hold and go back to their heretofore established Smallville relationship of verbal jousts and feigned dislike of each other, in order to delay as long as possible the inevitable L&C hook-up per all Superman continuities, which allows the show to deal with the other aforementioned un-integrated plot elements they've unleashed from Pandora's Box for this season.

Hey, it's great to get a breath of fresh air once in a while and have an episode that may be "fun" or "fan-friendly", the but the sign of a strong show is when the overall season obejctive is still pursued while stopping at various points of interest along the way (last week's "Instinct" with the re-imagining of Maxima is a good example). Because it's really annoying to have such a great fanboy element as L&C trumpeted out as a major episode event, only to see it recede into the background in later weeks as if it never happened -- only to be revived later on, out of the blue, as if it's been part of the status quo from the beginning. :confused:

ITA!:cool:, by the way, I am a GREAT fan of Clois at LnC .... but in Smallville I don´t think I will ever be!

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----


I think I'm beginning to get it. Clois fans just prefer light entertainiment and comedy to drama and deep emotional struggles. And that's about all it amounts to. They don't even care if Clark & Lois have a deep emotional bond or not, as long as they get "fun" scenes.

Clana fans are just a different type of fan. We're in it for the overarching story of the ebb & flow of a relationship, with all it's ups and downs, and want to see that played out to a final conclusion, one way or another, the way Al/Miles originally envisioned before they ever brought Lois onto Smallville. We don't think Lois ever belonged on Smallville, because THIS story was supposed to be the story of young Clark Kent & his relationship with Lana, and how she influenced him toward his destiny. That story should have ended in 5 seasons, with Clark and Lana parting for him to go train. After that, if they wanted to do a Lois & Clark sequel, I'd have been fine with that. I'd love for them to show me how it turned out that Lois is a better match for him at that point in his life. But, for SMALLVILLE, they intended to tell the Clana story, but then shifted things in order to stretch the show out to 3 or 4 extra seasons beyond the story they wanted to tell. I wish they would have let Clark go train & let Clana have their bittersweet ending in season 4 or five. Then they could have come back with "5 years later" or something & told the Clois story. It's painful the way they've continued to drag out the Clana, on & off, on & off. For what purpose? It seems like whenever they thought they were nearing the "end" of the series, they'd always put Clark & Lana back together. It seemed they wanted to have them together so they could create a bittersweet parting, & leave it to our imaginations what happens in the future when he returns as Superman. We just wish they would have finished telling the darn story arc they had in mind. THEN, they could do whatever they wanted with Clois, some years later & we'd be fine with it. The ages of the actors would easily make a time jump of years possible, & make Clark's falling for Lois more believable, with more distance between that time and the ending of the Clana.

I agree with your post, btw I would prefer Clana than Clois anyday, because at least with Clana there was development, as for what, how, when, and why .. but Clois all I have seen is L.i.g.h.t.s.w.i.t.c.h!

[SVsleuth]

I think if they would have begun this season with "5 years later" or "12 years later" or whatever number of YEARS instead of months, then everything that is playing out now would be more believable to a larger portion of the fans instead of just to the Clois fans. Then maybe the ratings wouldn't be tanking so badly, & the Clois wouldn't seem so awkward to so many of us.

[Sweetie]

I've never been a Clana fan. I found her cloying to be honest and watched the show despite her. That's not a knock on Kristen Kruek, who I think is a very good actress. Ever since Erica Durance joined the show as Lois I've been waiting for the Clois to develop, since she and Tom Welling clicked so well from the beginning.

I didn't find Lois' admission under torture that she loves Clark to be light in any way. But I also enjoy banter in a relationship - that doesn't mean it can't also be deeply emotional. I'm a fan of the comics, and this seems truer to the spirit of them to me.

This season is taking off like a race horse finally let out of the gate, and I for one am very happy with that. Lana represents high school Clark, and Lois is the woman for the man.


There's a great chemistry betweem Tom & Erika.The actors are trully enjoying themselve in their role and it's good to see.The nitpicking and teasing are nice and funny because they are doing it with smile on their faces.

Clana was extremely boring and repeatitive.There were constantly hearthaches and pain.The worst part was they kept doing it years after years.How can this be enjoyable?Sorry but,a romance soap opera's style is not my cup of tea.All this to prouve that could never work between them.

[RedKRules]

I think if they would have begun this season with "5 years later" or "12 years later" or whatever number of YEARS instead of months, then everything that is playing out now would be more believable to a larger portion of the fans instead of just to the Clois fans. Then maybe the ratings wouldn't be tanking so badly, & the Clois wouldn't seem so awkward to so many of us.

True! ;)

[alienkinfolk]

I think if they would have begun this season with "5 years later" or "12 years later" or whatever number of YEARS instead of months, then everything that is playing out now would be more believable to a larger portion of the fans instead of just to the Clois fans. Then maybe the ratings wouldn't be tanking so badly, & the Clois wouldn't seem so awkward to so many of us.

They can still do it, it's not too late (to have the actors play their real age :p)
No matter how you slice it, right now CLOIS comes across awkward to me, and I blame it on the Lana saga that lasted 7 years too long. I want the iconic stuff to happen but not before somethings are really put to rest, like the inkling I have that Clark may be feeling new feelings for Chloe. and no I'm not a Chlarker.BTW the posts in this forum have been awesome and well thought.kudos to ManofSteelo

[kiariclois]

I think I'm beginning to get it. Clois fans just prefer light entertainiment and comedy to drama and deep emotional struggles. And that's about all it amounts to. They don't even care if Clark & Lois have a deep emotional bond or not, as long as they get "fun" scenes.

I don't think you get it at all. Well -- This isn't a soap opera. Fun Clois is what we want -- but it's not the only thing we want for Clois. As far as I'm concerned -- we've been blessed with so many Clois heart-to-heart moments and to be quite frank -- they tend to be somewhat deep (but I doubt that certain people see it that way). I think Cloisers are pleased with the decent "emotional" bond Lois and Clark had shown. I don't think people would appreciate it if Lois and Clark becoming more like Lana and Clark -- struggling too much with the "emotional bond" and in the end making them acting somewhat like -- not themselves.

Honestly -- as clois fan myself -- I much rather see both Lois and Clark just develop as their own person.

[alienkinfolk]

Honestly -- as clois fan myself -- I much rather see both Lois and Clark just develop as their own person.

and the writers have more room to do it with them as opposed to Lana. Since Lois is tough on the outside already they can really create something exciting. can tptb do it?hmm:\

[SVsleuth]

I don't think you get it at all. Well -- This isn't a soap opera. Fun Clois is what we want -- but it's not the only thing we want for Clois. As far as I'm concerned -- we've been blessed with so many Clois heart-to-heart moments and to be quite frank -- they tend to be somewhat deep (but I doubt that certain people see it that way). I think Cloisers are pleased with the decent "emotional" bond Lois and Clark had shown. I don't think people would appreciate it if Lois and Clark becoming more like Lana and Clark -- struggling too much with the "emotional bond" and in the end making them acting somewhat like -- not themselves.

Honestly -- as clois fan myself -- I much rather see both Lois and Clark just develop as their own person.
I have seen some Clois heart to heart moments, in past seasons. Just not THIS season. So I'm saying those are needed. Maybe the writers do just want to have that happen after they're finished with the Clana arc completely. Its just hard for non-Clois shippers to buy what's happening so far on screen THIS season, because everything between Clark & Lois seems so superficial to us, without being shown already that they are connecting on a deeper level of communication. It doesn't have to have angst and the drama of Clana, but show that Clark can open up to her & not just the other way around. Have there been any scenes where it was Clark doing the opening up with Lois? I can't recall any, just Lois opening up to him. If there are, please remind me. To me, showing that Clark is comfortable opening up to Lois in a way he never could with Lana would help to explain WHY she is a better match for him. If that doesn't happen, I'm still lost, & will continue to see the Clois as awkward.

[individuall]

I think I'm beginning to get it. Clois fans just prefer light entertainiment and comedy to drama and deep emotional struggles. And that's about all it amounts to. They don't even care if Clark & Lois have a deep emotional bond or not, as long as they get "fun" scenes.

No, thats not it at all. Look I know we all have a preferences and we see what we wanna see. And I respect your opinion, but I disagree.
We've seen Clark and Lois develop a bond. Over the course of four years they've had their heart to hearts, their serious moments, fun banter, they lived together, and they've seen each other at their best and more importantly at their worst moments.
And again, this is my opinion. But the fact that Lois has only been on the show four years and ED's contract has been limited to 13 eppys for that time. The Clois relationship has really been developed quite beautifully. I've seen these two individuals grow from a mutual annoyance/fascination with one another to a very strong friendship (in their own Cloisy way) I don't compare them to Clana or Chlark, because both Lana and Chloe have a completely different relationship with Clark, than Lois. But that doesn't mean they aren't close.
If anything Last season showed us how close Clois had become, they had a lot of heart felt moments ( I REALLY missed the banter. I'm glad it's back this season :))..They comforted each other, Lois took Clark out to help him keep his mind off Lana..Though we'll never know what they talked about... This season, they've had great moments of friendship together too. 'Plastique' Lois thanks Clark and tells him he has a long career ahead of him at the DP. 'Committed' Clark basically takes care of Lois for the entire eppy. From drunken night to psycho killer with issues and everywhere in between. 'Instinct' they had their little 'soul mate' chat, which was nice.
To me, and I am a Cloiser I've seen the depth in their relationship it's been shown to me on screen that these two individuals care about one another (maybe not romantically, yet) they have grown to have a mutual respect for each other (teasing/jabbing included ;))and I know some people will never see how Clois can work on SV. But I do. And I don't ship them because of the mythos I ship them because of what I see/have seen on screen. The fact that they actually end up together, is just the icing on the cake. To me and others that ship Clois their relationship is anything, but superficial.
But to each her own :)

But just so you know yes, one of things that does appeal to me about the Clois relationship is that they both have fun/light moments together and make each other smile/laugh. Whether it be because of/with/ or at the expense of the other. That and I love the banter to! Never get too much of that!

[Sweetie]

I have seen some Clois heart to heart moments, in past seasons. Just not THIS season. So I'm saying those are needed. Maybe the writers do just want to have that happen after they're finished with the Clana arc completely. Its just hard for non-Clois shippers to buy what's happening so far on screen THIS season, because everything between Clark & Lois seems so superficial to us, without being shown already that they are connecting on a deeper level of communication. It doesn't have to have angst and the drama of Clana, but show that Clark can open up to her & not just the other way around. Have there been any scenes where it was Clark doing the opening up with Lois? I can't recall any, just Lois opening up to him. If there are, please remind me. To me, showing that Clark is comfortable opening up to Lois in a way he never could with Lana would help to explain WHY she is a better match for him. If that doesn't happen, I'm still lost, & will continue to see the Clois as awkward.


What is so wrong with a relationship that begins with a friendship?A friend can tell her friend she cares about him can't she?How in the world is this sound superficial?It's okay for Chlark to be good friends but,not Clois.If Clana started with a good friendship instead of an obssession,stalking,lies and lack of trust may be,the relationship would have worked at the end.But,Clois will last because it started with good,solid basics.

[eas]

So is this thread a better place to discuss this? Please answer, eas & other Clois fans. Thanks.

Thanks, SVSleuth, for giving me a heads up about this and taking the time to merge the convo. I appreciate it.

I'll respond as soon as I get a chance... this weekend is a little crazy (out of town guests and a lunch I'm hosting tomorrow) and I want to make sure I give this post some thought.

[kiariclois]

I have seen some Clois heart to heart moments, in past seasons. Just not THIS season.


Have there been any scenes where it was Clark doing the opening up with Lois? I can't recall any, just Lois opening up to him.

My point, exactly -- As far as I'm concerned, these two did have a little heart to heart moments in Plastique, Toxic and Instinct -- a very light and brief ones, to be exact. (What Kaitlyn said)See -- some people chose not to see it. Give it time -- They're developing.


Its just hard for non-Clois shippers to buy what's happening so far on screen THIS season, because everything between Clark & Lois seems so superficial to us, without being shown already that they are connecting on a deeper level of communication.

I think -- no matter how strong Clois had become, how many "heart to heart" -- some of the non Clois wouldn't still be buying it. :p

[SVsleuth]

Thanks, SVSleuth, for giving me a heads up about this and taking the time to merge the convo. I appreciate it.

I'll respond as soon as I get a chance... this weekend is a little crazy (out of town guests and a lunch I'm hosting tomorrow) and I want to make sure I give this post some thought.
Thanks. I'll look fwd to your reply.

----- Added 17 Minutes later -----


What is so wrong with a relationship that begins with a friendship?A friend can tell her friend she cares about him can't she?How in the world is this sound superficial?It's okay for Chlark to be good friends but,not Clois.If Clana started with a good friendship instead of an obssession,stalking,lies and lack of trust may be,the relationship would have worked at the end.But,Clois will last because it started with good,solid basics.
Wait. So when Lois answered the question "Yes" in Committed, she only meant that she cares deeply about Clark as a close friend? I took it they meant to imply that she suddenly discovered she is in love with him. That's what I'm having a hard time taking a leap to. I agree that ever since Lucy, Clark & Lois have been friends & Clark cares about Lois just as much as about any of his other friends and family, & Lois cares about him. I just need to see a believable progression from good friends to interested romantically. I know it can happen, I'm living proof of it. Been married for 22 years to a guy who at one time was a very close friend. I guess my journey colors my expectations. I expect that for close friends to move to romance they have to learn to confide in one another in a way they don't with anyone else. AND, there has to be mutual attraction as well. So I guess I keep looking for evidence of these things. Maybe it is yet to come. I just don't care for the stuff like Maxima coming and telling Clark & Lois that they are "destined" to be together. I don't think that helps the development of the relationship.

[Liquid-Prince]

What you're saying makes no sense because you can't just remove one element of the episode and say that if it wasn't there then it would have been a boring filler episode. The fact was that it was there and that the episode was very good, advancing the characters into new unseen places.

Secondly I don't feel the chemistry between them is forced nor the fact that Clark got the job. I mean Chloe originally got the job because she was the editor of the Torch, and Clark also worked at the Torch. He had experience, plus he got recommendations from Chloe and Lois so him starting to work at the bottom makes total sense. Tess has also shown an interest in him.

Thirdly, the whole Lois and Clark dynamic has been in the show since Crusade when Clark picked up Lois and she gave a little smile. She was always sort of attracted to him and the banter they had proved that, however now that they have been working together and Clark is acting more adult like, Lois's emotions have been boiling up and she actually starting to fall deeply and undeniably in love with him.

[SVsleuth]

I've tried to step back & look at the show more through Clois eyes, to try to grasp what really is there between Clark & Lois that will make it work. (Keep in mind, I've always been a Clana fan). This is a sort of theory I've come up with that I haven't seen anyone else address.

What if, from the very beginning of Season 4, when Lois found Clark stark naked, she knew there was something very unusual about him. Maybe all along the way, she's noticed things that didn't quite add up, and knows he's hiding a whole other side of himself. BUT, Lois consciously chooses to leave it alone, unless Clark brings it up.

I remember when Chloe found out Clark's secret & she asked Lois' advice, & Lois said if you care about the person, don't tell them, wait for them to tell you. Chloe tried to follow that advice, but kept dropping hints hoping that Clark would tell her. Maybe Lois knows more than we think, but she chooses to leave it alone, to not even drop hints or pry. She's the kind of person who can live with there being some secrets that are better kept, & doesn't try to get Clark to tell all. That is completely different from Lana & Chloe, and maybe helps make things work between Clark & Lois, because she doesn't demand that there be no secrets between them, and she supports him. She'll wait forever for him to tell her, if he feels he wants to, but if not, that's okay with her. Does this make any sense?

[DontCha]

, IMO this wasnt actually a filler episode this changed the plot dramatically for the main character and for Lois.

Clark by the end of it now understands that he would have said "yes" if someone asked him "do you love Lois lane"

[individuall]

I've tried to step back & look at the show more through Clois eyes, to try to grasp what really is there between Clark & Lois that will make it work. (Keep in mind, I've always been a Clana fan). This is a sort of theory I've come up with that I haven't seen anyone else address.

What if, from the very beginning of Season 4, when Lois found Clark stark naked, she knew there was something very unusual about him. Maybe all along the way, she's noticed things that didn't quite add up, and knows he's hiding a whole other side of himself. BUT, Lois consciously chooses to leave it alone, unless Clark brings it up.

I remember when Chloe found out Clark's secret & she asked Lois' advice, & Lois said if you care about the person, don't tell them, wait for them to tell you. Chloe tried to follow that advice, but kept dropping hints hoping that Clark would tell her. Maybe Lois knows more than we think, but she chooses to leave it alone, to not even drop hints or pry. She's the kind of person who can live with there being some secrets that are better kept, & doesn't try to get Clark to tell all. That is completely different from Lana & Chloe, and maybe helps make things work between Clark & Lois, because she doesn't demand that there be no secrets between them, and she supports him. She'll wait forever for him to tell her, if he feels he wants to, but if not, that's okay with her. Does this make any sense?

Perfect Sense! :D you hit the nail on the head my friend! (bolded part) It's one of the reasons I love Lois so much! I think that is very good insight and quite plausible that Lois suspects Clark has a big secret...Well you said it! :D
Thank you trying to see it through our POV.. :)

[RedKRules]

But, but .. Lois said she couldn´t share her man with the world :confused: :confused:

[Mr.Magic]

But, but .. Lois said she couldn´t share her man with the world :confused: :confused:

Not when he is gone for weeks or even months all the time. Clark usually is back in a couple of seconds/minutes.

[individuall]

But, but .. Lois said she couldn´t share her man with the world :confused: :confused:
It's called irony. She may not be able to do that now. But in the future she will be. And Ollie and her had more problems then his moonlighting in leather. Also, the man wanted her to basically be his weekend girlfriend 'when he could'.... I would've said no too. Plus, Lois will Love Clark SO much more that she ever loved Ollie that she'll be willing to make more sacrifices in order to make their relationship work and be with him. :)

As the 'Siren' commentators said 'She's not ready now, but she will be'

[Tacitus]

But, but ... Clark said that Lana is his soulmate4eva&eva4eva. :D

Obviously people grow up and change their minds at some point.

[oqllcksmallville]

Welcome to the kryptonsite , Melekith = ) !
smallville has just been ;
RAKING IN THE RATINGS ,
ever since season 8 started .
and Lois and Clark ?
BETTER THEN EVER BEFORE !
it's showing you ,
Clark falls for Lois and how . = )
please try to accept this , and love the show like always . <3
- Manofsteelo , your perfectly right ,
if they had taken the CLOIS out of this epsiode ,
it would have been just another " filler " .
bt the fact is , CLOIS WAS IN THIS EPISODE .
so it progressed that storyline .
so tell me how it's a filler ?

[DontCha]

But, but .. Lois said she couldn´t share her man with the world :confused: :confused:


and the writers of the scene where she says that to clark explained what their intent was during the commentary of Siren, the people who wrote the scene are telling you that in fact, It was a bit of fun because in the future we all know she'll be able to handle it with Clark.

they are not in any way saying Lois wouldnt be able to handle clark;s hero complex,

its different when the hero complex belongs to your soulmate rather than just a BF

[batfinx]

Don't get me wrong, because I love the chemistry between Welling and Durance (though she really acts circles around him most of the time in their scenes), but this whole L&C transplant into Smallville, I think, has upset what little ballast this show has had over the years, in terms of its overall direction and tone. I wasn't totally sold on the whole Clark-to-Metropolis thing from the beginning, since it pretty much takes the Smallville-ishness out of the show and is trying to make up perceived lost ground from the Gough/Millar Era in order to get to Clark's ultimate destiny as Superman, but I'm trying to give it a chance, since this show might not be on this time next year, anyway.

You make some interesting points, Kyle, and while I may not agree with all of them I do agree about the great chemistry that Welling and Durance have together. However, I don't think the episode was 'filler' because part of what will make Clark Kent Superman in the future is who he is as a person and the choices he makes on a personal level. The writers can't take a whiny moping character who would rather not have his powers so he can stay on the farm with his girlfriend and then suddenly turn him into Superman and expect anyone to believe it. There has to be a transition from the negative to the positive. This is a more subtle form of transition than say Clark Kent deciding to wear a costume, or choosing a secret identity, but in its own way equally important. It might seem like the new showrunners are rushing things, but they were given little choice by Gough and Millar, who did nothing but stall and regress the story year after year.


Hey, it's great to get a breath of fresh air once in a while and have an episode that may be "fun" or "fan-friendly", the but the sign of a strong show is when the overall season obejctive is still pursued while stopping at various points of interest along the way (last week's "Instinct" with the re-imagining of Maxima is a good example). Because it's really annoying to have such a great fanboy element as L&C trumpeted out as a major episode event, only to see it recede into the background in later weeks as if it never happened

Yes, I agree. I think part of that fear is a holdover from the Gough-Millar era. I mean you could be right, the new showrunners could make the same mistake as their predecessors, but I'm looking for something different this time, like with the upcoming Lana arc. I want an epiphany on Clark's part. Initially he might be drawn back to Lana, but at some crucial point realize what a terrible mistake he's making. He has to have that type of moment. It can't be for the old reason that he feels she's better off and safer without him and Lana can't be the one to break it off again, or it's not really over. This time has to be definitive to achieve any sense of closure or satisfaction.


If Clark starts discovering deep down "feelings" for Lois that he never knew he had, it just seems totally contrived. First he has to have Maxima telling him Lois is his destiny. Then he has to learn through a lie detector that Lois may really love him, even though she denies it later. And only after that will he suddenly wonder if maybe he can give it a shot with Lois?

You're on the wrong track here, SVsleuth. It's not that Clark has to wonder if Lois is the one, it's that he has to find out first that Lana is not. Most people who watched the last couple of seasons know how bad his relationship with Lana was and how they fed each other's weaknesses, rather than their strengths and how Clark didn't want to acknowledge Lana's serious problems, like her elaborate plot for revenge against Lex. Until Clark can see how bad things were as clearly as the audience did, he can't move on to anyone else.


I agree. I have to separate SV from the Superman Movies (Reeve version), because it is so different. They set SV up as some great Clark/Lana romance show with the two of them being painted to be the end game.

Outside of someone liking the Clana relationship, I can't imagine anyone else believing that for a moment. Smallville is a prequel to the more famous Superman story and Lana most definitely isn't end game, especially since the show is moving Clark towards his future and away from his past.


I think I'm beginning to get it. Clois fans just prefer light entertainiment and comedy to drama and deep emotional struggles. And that's about all it amounts to. They don't even care if Clark & Lois have a deep emotional bond or not, as long as they get "fun" scenes.

You're confusing drama with melodrama. This is the definition of melodrama: a dramatic form that does not observe the laws of cause and effect and that exaggerates emotion and emphasizes plot or action at the expense of characterization.

Clana was most definitely melodrama. Hidden is a great example. Lana weeping over "nearly dead" Clark in the hospital was spouting things about knowing this day would come because of him always rushing off to be the hero and that's why she kept him at arm's length. That was totally contrived and invented just to fit a plot moment with no bearing on the truth, which was Lana kept Clark at arm's length all those years due to his "secret's and lies." It was absurd. I'll put it this way, if Clark smiling, laughing and wanting to be a hero is "light entertainment", then I say bring it on. Superman is a hero about hope, not mope :D


I agree with your post, btw I would prefer Clana than Clois anyday, because at least with Clana there was development, as for what, how, when, and why .. but Clois all I have seen is L.i.g.h.t.s.w.i.t.c.h!

Clark and Lois have been friends for quite a while, but there are times that Clark sees a side to Lois that she hides, like in Prototype he saw Lois crying over Wes, in Fracture he was in Lex's mind and saw how Lois was trying to help Kara, Clark sought Lois out to comfort her after she broke up with Oliver in Siren, she returned the favor and comforted Clark in Arctic and wanted him to work with her at the Planet. It's also clear from various episodes that Clark is attracted to Lois. As much as you might not like the truth that often relationships start with physical attractions, it's not a light-switch.


I have seen some Clois heart to heart moments, in past seasons. Just not THIS season.

This season is only five episodes old :lol: I do not want Clark to have a weeping willow relationship with Lois. He had one with Lana for 7 years and that's way more than enough.

[geminis]

What can we say. Clark is a guy, getting emotion out of him is like getting blood from a stone. A very dense, Kryptonian one.

I'm pretty sure all of the Clois fans (myself included) are looking forward to him really cutting loose. We see subtle little signs but, the thing is, this isn't Lois and Clark, much though we'd love it to be. Being realistic, we may never get full blown obvious Clark, head over heels for Lois.

Speaking for myself, I like light, banter filled comedic entertainment AND deep, emotional drama AND I care about the deep, emotional bond that Clark and Lois DO share. Lana saw it, Chloe saw it, Martha and Jonathan saw it, Oliver saw it, and Maxima saw it; Clark and Lois are the only ones who don't because they are too personally involved. Bumbling reporter meets obnoxious reporter. Barricades are up, action stations.

Lois just hasn't been as good at hiding her emotions on Smallville, but I think once Clark gets a prescription for those glasses, he just might be able to see through Lois' facade. And, once he dons the tights and cape, his feelings for Lois will simply soar.

[kryptonaidxh]

:Dyou´re the only one acward honey, because I love Lois and Clark together in Smallville, their chemistry is amazoing and those Clois episodes have been great!:D, I really hope there are a lot of more for the rest of the season:D

[wolverine316]

I have seen some Clois heart to heart moments, in past seasons. Just not THIS season. So I'm saying those are needed. Maybe the writers do just want to have that happen after they're finished with the Clana arc completely. Its just hard for non-Clois shippers to buy what's happening so far on screen THIS season, because everything between Clark & Lois seems so superficial to us, without being shown already that they are connecting on a deeper level of communication. It doesn't have to have angst and the drama of Clana, but show that Clark can open up to her & not just the other way around. Have there been any scenes where it was Clark doing the opening up with Lois? I can't recall any, just Lois opening up to him. If there are, please remind me. To me, showing that Clark is comfortable opening up to Lois in a way he never could with Lana would help to explain WHY she is a better match for him. If that doesn't happen, I'm still lost, & will continue to see the Clois as awkward.

This season is only a few eps old :confused:. Give it time. PS3 has to handle Clois just right without fans complaining they are moving too fast. They need to take their time. But not at a ridiculously slow pacing like Al/Miles ran things.

[morrigan01]

But, but .. Lois said she couldn´t share her man with the world :confused: :confused:

First, that wasn't totally it. She just told Ollie that, but what Lois was really afraid of was being left behind by someone who had a greater destiny to the world (the real fear that she voiced to Clark). So she acted like the bad guy and told Ollie she couldn't share him, when that really wasn't the whole problem.

And then in Toxic she says that maybe she got it wrong about that, and maybe she shouldn't have let Oliver go for that reason.

Her voicing her doubt about what she initially did in letting Ollie go opens the door for her to make a different choice with Clark - this time deciding NOT to let go. And she's going to have to hold on tight because Clark will be an even bigger hero than Ollie, and the world will need him even more.

[Timester]

But, but .. Lois said she couldn´t share her man with the world :confused: :confused:

Which is also true on the comics and STAS, except for one person, Clark Kent.

[98chase]

Y'all can say what you want, but I've never seen as many positive posts on this forum as there is now. Obviously they can't please everyone, but from the atmosphere in this forum, I'm getting that people are actually starting to like the show now. People are coming to K-site to discuss and compliment the show, not complain and whine like had become customary over the last year or two.

As for this thread, I don't think Lois and Clark are anymore awkward than it is supposed to be. Awkwardness has been written into the show, so the little that I'm seeing is fine by me.

[Tompouce]

i am rather pleased with the clois progression. that is kind of the reason why i watch the show.
I agree with you. It is time for Clark to move on as he says to Jimmy. Anyway, we know that he will be in love with Lois and I find interesting the fact that Lois is in love with Clark before he becomes Superman. It 's another way to tell the story so I really enjoy the way it is done. Besides, Love is always good to tell, isnt' it ?;)

[oqllcksmallville]

Y'all can say what you want, but I've never seen as many positive posts on this forum as there is now. Obviously they can't please everyone, but from the atmosphere in this forum, I'm getting that people are actually starting to like the show now. People are coming to K-site to discuss and compliment the show, not complain and whine like had become customary over the last year or two.

As for this thread, I don't think Lois and Clark are anymore awkward than it is supposed to be. Awkwardness has been written into the show, so the little that I'm seeing is fine by me.
- i know ,
i agree with every thing you said ! , = )
no one complain's when it's their favourite ship ,
they say ;
" ohh , but when their awkward near each other , it's cute " .
.. they just need to chill out ,
and take things as they come in smallville . <3
- CLOIS is future .
.. no more looking and lolly-gagging into the past .
as we turn the page , SUPERMAN . =D

[Sweetie]

Thanks. I'll look fwd to your reply.

----- Added 17 Minutes later -----


Wait. So when Lois answered the question "Yes" in Committed, she only meant that she cares deeply about Clark as a close friend? I took it they meant to imply that she suddenly discovered she is in love with him. That's what I'm having a hard time taking a leap to. I agree that ever since Lucy, Clark & Lois have been friends & Clark cares about Lois just as much as about any of his other friends and family, & Lois cares about him. I just need to see a believable progression from good friends to interested romantically. I know it can happen, I'm living proof of it. Been married for 22 years to a guy who at one time was a very close friend. I guess my journey colors my expectations. I expect that for close friends to move to romance they have to learn to confide in one another in a way they don't with anyone else. AND, there has to be mutual attraction as well. So I guess I keep looking for evidence of these things. Maybe it is yet to come. I just don't care for the stuff like Maxima coming and telling Clark & Lois that they are "destined" to be together. I don't think that helps the development of the relationship.


I meant in general,Lois cares for Clark and vive versa.She just discovers her true feelings for him.It was extremelly hard for her to admit.How can this be a lightswitch?It's not like they are going to do a double wedding with Chimmy.They met each other 4 years ago and they are just realising it now.They always had funtime,they helped each other,they both when through hard break ups at the same time.They laugh,tease & nitpick in good way.Some love stories are not always beginning with struggles,pain and heatheaches.It's fantastic to slowly fall in love with your best friend without knowing it :D

By the way,I'm not a shipper but,Clois is more enjoyable to watch.

[supes0]

Which is also true on the comics and STAS, except for one person, Clark Kent.

Yep. There was a great issue soon after Clark told her who he was (Lois was engaged to Clark without knowing the truth). Remember?

The issue centered around Lois's fears that Clark couldn't be both a Superhero and a husband. They go off to talk about their future, and how they'll make it work knowing the obstacles they face, and come back convinced they can do it.

So I wasn't surprised to hear Lois say this to Ollie. The difference is Ollie doesn't try to convince her she's wrong. He doesn't give her a reason to believe he'd be committed (no pun intended) to the relationship. MHO, he isn't, and that is what drives Lois's fears, she knows she's an after thought to him while he's out saving the world.

She won't be to Clark.

Also, right now Lois is still growing, she doesn't have an established career, she's unsure of her own talent. She's worried she'll be home eating ice cream while Ollie saves the world. As she grows, she'll be busy chasing the truth while Clark saves the world. And they find a way to make it work.

[DontCha]

Sweetie i dont think she discoveres that she loves him here, she already knows the truth in that scene before she is forced to admit it.

you can see she's afraid that Clark will find out her little secret when the jewler tells them they cant hide their secrets. She looks at him like "oh ****"

When he says "deep down underneath it all, do you love this man" her face was one of utter panic. because she does love him but she really, really doesnt want him to know."IMO Its partly why it was taking her so long to answer, this little battle going on in her brain lol,

[DGirlLois4Clark]

I am definitely happy about the clois development this season. What awkwardness??
ED and Tom have amazing chemistry. Keep up the great work PS3

[KelterDai]

[MOD EDIT

[6-Super-Man -5]

I am definitely happy about the clois development this season. What awkwardness??
ED and Tom have amazing chemistry. Keep up the great work PS3

Agreed, I look forward to future episodes featuring Clois. :D

[colibri]

I'm loving this season. For once the writers care about the characters. For once, we are seeing Clark act like a man. I had to turn away from the soap opera this show had become but this season is amazing. Clark is funny, valiant, mature and he's not moping around being the BDA. TW and ED are not awkward, they're finally doing what they were meant to be doing.

I agree with whoever mentioned that people are confusing drama with melodrama.

Anyway, I see the light at the end of the tunnel. I see Clark becoming the hero he's supposed to be and accepting his destiny... finally!

And for those who are Lana fans, I think you just might see someone write this character like she should have been written, properly and with some dignity.

[SVsleuth]

MOD EDIT

Excuse me, but have you even READ this thread? There isn't even ONE whining post in it. This is one of the most civil threads I've ever been in on K-site, a thread where both Clana & Clois fans have been sharing their point of views peacefully, and civilly. Try reading the thread. You might be surprised at what is here.

[Tacitus]

Superman is a hero about hope, not mope :D

Best slogan ever. :D I might borrow it sometimes if you dont mind :lol:

[SVsleuth]

It's called irony. She may not be able to do that now. But in the future she will be. And Ollie and her had more problems then his moonlighting in leather. Also, the man wanted her to basically be his weekend girlfriend 'when he could'.... I would've said no too. Plus, Lois will Love Clark SO much more that she ever loved Ollie that she'll be willing to make more sacrifices in order to make their relationship work and be with him. :)

As the 'Siren' commentators said 'She's not ready now, but she will be'

This reminded me...In Committed, when Tess talked to Ollie about how he cheated on her with a "waitress"...could she have meant LOIS? At first that thought never crossed my mind, but later it suddenly hit me that maybe it was, since Lois had been working at the Talon and all. I had always liked the Lollie, but if Ollie was really "with" Tess, then trying to get some from Lois at the same time, he's really a totally different guy than I thought he was, & I'm glad Lois refused his offer for them to try to make it work on weekends.

[individuall]

This reminded me...In Committed, when Tess talked to Ollie about how he cheated on her with a "waitress"...could she have meant LOIS? At first that thought never crossed my mind, but later it suddenly hit me that maybe it was, since Lois had been working at the Talon and all. I had always liked the Lollie, but if Ollie was really "with" Tess, then trying to get some from Lois at the same time, he's really a totally different guy than I thought he was, & I'm glad Lois refused his offer for them to try to make it work on weekends.

I don't think it was Lois, because she met Ollie after she was a waitress...She was working as Martha's CoS and the Inquisiter...And Ollie/Tess met on the Island (10 years ago) So he had left Tess WAY before he met Lois...Don't worry...Plus Tess made it clear that she caught her (the waitress) with him..I think we would've heard something about that and Lollie would've probably ended for an entirely different reason...And Lois would've recognized Tess and vice versa before 'Odyssey' and I think Tess would've called her something a little more colorful than 'Intrepid reporter' ;) LOL.

Anywho, I liked Lollie too while it lasted too. I'm happy the way it ended, very mature...:)

[kiariclois]

You make some interesting points, Kyle, and while I may not agree with all of them I do agree about the great chemistry that Welling and Durance have together. However, I don't think the episode was 'filler' because part of what will make Clark Kent Superman in the future is who he is as a person and the choices he makes on a personal level. The writers can't take a whiny moping character who would rather not have his powers so he can stay on the farm with his girlfriend and then suddenly turn him into Superman and expect anyone to believe it. There has to be a transition from the negative to the positive. This is a more subtle form of transition than say Clark Kent deciding to wear a costume, or choosing a secret identity, but in its own way equally important. It might seem like the new showrunners are rushing things, but they were given little choice by Gough and Millar, who did nothing but stall and regress the story year after year.



Yes, I agree. I think part of that fear is a holdover from the Gough-Millar era. I mean you could be right, the new showrunners could make the same mistake as their predecessors, but I'm looking for something different this time, like with the upcoming Lana arc. I want an epiphany on Clark's part. Initially he might be drawn back to Lana, but at some crucial point realize what a terrible mistake he's making. He has to have that type of moment. It can't be for the old reason that he feels she's better off and safer without him and Lana can't be the one to break it off again, or it's not really over. This time has to be definitive to achieve any sense of closure or satisfaction.



You're on the wrong track here, SVsleuth. It's not that Clark has to wonder if Lois is the one, it's that he has to find out first that Lana is not. Most people who watched the last couple of seasons know how bad his relationship with Lana was and how they fed each other's weaknesses, rather than their strengths and how Clark didn't want to acknowledge Lana's serious problems, like her elaborate plot for revenge against Lex. Until Clark can see how bad things were as clearly as the audience did, he can't move on to anyone else.



Outside of someone liking the Clana relationship, I can't imagine anyone else believing that for a moment. Smallville is a prequel to the more famous Superman story and Lana most definitely isn't end game, especially since the show is moving Clark towards his future and away from his past.



You're confusing drama with melodrama. This is the definition of melodrama: a dramatic form that does not observe the laws of cause and effect and that exaggerates emotion and emphasizes plot or action at the expense of characterization.

Clana was most definitely melodrama. Hidden is a great example. Lana weeping over "nearly dead" Clark in the hospital was spouting things about knowing this day would come because of him always rushing off to be the hero and that's why she kept him at arm's length. That was totally contrived and invented just to fit a plot moment with no bearing on the truth, which was Lana kept Clark at arm's length all those years due to his "secret's and lies." It was absurd. I'll put it this way, if Clark smiling, laughing and wanting to be a hero is "light entertainment", then I say bring it on. Superman is a hero about hope, not mope :D



Clark and Lois have been friends for quite a while, but there are times that Clark sees a side to Lois that she hides, like in Prototype he saw Lois crying over Wes, in Fracture he was in Lex's mind and saw how Lois was trying to help Kara, Clark sought Lois out to comfort her after she broke up with Oliver in Siren, she returned the favor and comforted Clark in Arctic and wanted him to work with her at the Planet. It's also clear from various episodes that Clark is attracted to Lois. As much as you might not like the truth that often relationships start with physical attractions, it's not a light-switch.



This season is only five episodes old :lol: I do not want Clark to have a weeping willow relationship with Lois. He had one with Lana for 7 years and that's way more than enough.

Excellent, EXCELLENT post. :D

[eas]

So is this thread a better place to discuss this? Please answer, eas & other Clois fans. Thanks.

OK, so I'm going to preface my response with two things: (1) I'm not setting out to "convert" you to Clois. I think that one of the beautiful things about this show is that we can all watch and be passionate about different aspects of it... I can be passionate about Clois and you can love Clana... it's all "correct", imo & (2) I've never been a Clana shipper... but I also don't "hate" Lana. Just bear that in mind. :)

Your question was (in a nutshell) how has "SV" shown us - leading up to S7 - how/why Lois is the best girl for Clark. Also, in S8, are they building up the Clois in a natural way that builds off of S7? I think you believe that it's not (that it's too much, too soon, and that Lois pretty much is not 'worthy' of Clark Kent). Some of my responses are part of other posts I've made in the past (sorry, I just didn't want to type it all out again).

Here are my thoughts:

I feel they have laid down the groundwork for this, actually. In a way that goes well beyond the shallow and superficial.

At this point in time, I feel that there is only woman that Clark has been in love with: Lana Lang. I think that he knows that his life would have been easier if he had been in love with Chloe, instead, but it never worked out that way. He couldn't force himself to love her like that, so they - instead - ended up just being friends. And I believe that when the time comes for Clark to love again, it'll be only woman he has eyes for: Lois Lane. And, that time, it'll be for life.

A bit of background: The way they spoke to each other in the episode "Lucy", for example. Lois opened up to Clark in a way that she doesn't do... she even looks startled by how much she revealed to Clark. Clark, for his part, learns more about Lois and he's impressed by her love for her sister and her loyalty to her family. (Something I think we can all agree would be a big deal to a man destined to be Superman.) At that moment, a beautiful friendship is born... and, over the years, I've watched them closer and closer. Not on a superficial and shallow leve, but on a deeper and emotional level. Lois was there to talk to him in "Blank" and help him through his problems, even though she had no idea what was going on with him. Clark was there to comfort her in "Aqua". Lois went back to help his family during the second meteor shower and the first thing she did when she saw Clark at the hospital was to rush and hug him. In "Exposed", Lois admitted that Clark was always there for her when she needed him and she thanked him. She told Lana that she would be lucky "to end up with someone as honorable as Clark Kent some day" and I think that was MUCH more than just an anvil. It was a heartfelt insight into how SVLois views SVClark.

She helped throw him a surprise birthday party in S5, even going as far as to back a cake for him. And she gives him a journal because she knows he has a lot of thoughts he needs to get out, but he doesn't like to talk. Then, in S6, he was there for her during the Ollie situation... and they became closer and closer, as friends.

And, then, we have a Clark Kent who flat out tells Lois that there are times when he thinks that she knows him better than anyone. Again, I don't think that was just an anvil. I think that was an insight into how Clark views Lois and the dynamics of their relationship. And that was 2 years ago -- they've only gotten closer since then, because Lois tells Clark that she "hates that you know me so well" in S6, when she confides her suspicions about Green Arrow to him. It's also something to note that she choose CLARK to confide her feelings in... not Chloe.

In S7, she starts the first episode out with hugging him and the last scene in the whole season was Lois hugging him. They came full circle... and - in between - grew that much closer to each other. Lois was there to listen to Clark talk about Lana... he was there to listen her issues with Ollie. They had very serious and heart-felt talks. Lois broke down crying in front of Clark... that's huge.

To me, this is more than enough for a solid foundation that tells me why Clark and Lois will - ulimately - be very happy together & are destined to be wonderful together. Right now, in this moment, their thoughts have not gone that path & who knows if they will in "SV" ever. But honestly? I think they've both thought about it. And I think that when they're both older and wiser, his attitude towards Lois is not going to what it was towards Chloe. That if Lois approached him with, say, a proclamation of love, I don't think he'd dismiss like he did with Chloe. Because, honestly, I can see between Lois and Clark something that never existed with Chloe or Lana: a deep, inherent, sense of trust and respect for the other person. Without even knowing Clark's secret, I already feel like Lois knows him better than anyone and understands him & his moods and can just let him be. And Clark, for his part, can get through to Lois in a way that a lot of people can't...

Present Relationship: Up to S8, we saw that Lois and Clark had gotten very limited screentim. One thing that is positive about the limited SVClois we've gotten up to this point is that there haven't been these hard obstacles between them & they haven't disappointed each other and failed in each other's eyes. (Unlike Chlark and Clana.) In S8, SVCLois is still very fresh and in it's early stages. Both have never loved each other romantically, so neither views the other with rose colored glasses. They see each other's flaws, but still manage to like the other person, in spite of them. We don't see either Clark or Lois get bitter with each other or disillusioned. We don't see these scenes of "betrayal" and angst. In fact, we see them both turn to each other for support when there is angst in their life from other sources. But they don't cause the angst in each other.

So, for me, SVClois seems the only natural end because it's the only ship that they haven't mucked up (mainly because they haven't explored it, so they didn't have a chance to muck it up). Clark is really only normal around Lois, because they don't have a heavy history and there's no expectation on her part that he has to live up to... Lois, of course, wouldn't care if he had expectations of her, because she doesn't give a damn what a man wants from her. If he likes her for who she is, great, if not, he can go to hell. I think there is probably something liberating in that for Clark.

Lois, on her part, sees in a Clark a man that she is looking for, but is not ready for, yet. She knows this, I think, subconciously, but not consciously & when she does, that'll be the day she falls in love with Clark Kent. [Note: I think that this day occured in "Instinct" when she had a meltdown at watching him make out with the girl.] Clark, on his part, likes and respects Lois (and, yes, he is physically attracted to her) but he's not ready for her. She's way too much for him to handle when he's just gotten his heart crushed by Lana.

They are perfect for each other. One day. Not today. But, one day, their future selves will realize that the perfect person was there all along... and SV has shown to me why that is. Why - down the line - Lois is better for him than Chloe or Lana. I do think that S8 has rushed it a bit from Lois's side, but - starting with "Apocolypse" we saw the changing feelings that Lois had towards Clark. A lot of Cloisers were saying that it was obvious that Lois was getting a crush on Clark. (Amongst other things, she was a lot nicer to him that she'd ever been before.)

Clark's mistakes with Lana & how it affects Clois: I see SVClark telling SVLois in the future what his secret is (instead of Lois finding out through some other means). I think that the Clana/Clois relationship has been contrasted well when it comes to this. Choosing to tell her, I mean. I base that on the way he behaved with her in "Crimson". In that episode, he made it point to show her his 'leaping' power and that mirrors when he carried Lana and 'leapt' with her in "Reckoning" and proposed to Lana. At that moment, he was showing his trust in Lana and how much he cared for her by exposing himself to her that way. Ultimately, it didn't matter, because Lana didn't remember (similar to how Lois didn't remember in "Crimson") but the action and implication were the same.

And I don't think it was only because he was on Red-K. By contrast, in "Crimson", he has opportunity to reveal himself to Lana the same night he showed his powers to Lois and he chooses not to. He has enough control over himself to not do that. And a lot of people brush off his moment with Lois as him just being competitive towards Ollie, but that doesn't make sense to me, because he has more reason to be competitive and hostile towards Lex. When he's convincing Lana to stay with him, he has more reason to say, "Lex? He's nothing. So what if he's a millionaire? I can burn things with my eyes, fly you to the moon, and run you to Paris. We can rule the world..." or whatever. But he doesn't. He doesn't use his powers as leverage and doesn't use the Red-K to reveal himself to Lana. He does with Lois, though, and that's very telling.

That's actually one of the things I like about SVClois and makes me thing that they're more of an ideal ship than Chlark and Clana. I think that they don't walk on eggshells around each other, while Chlark and Clana do. This, in part, has to do with Lois's very blunt nature (which, in turn, impacts Clark and makes him more blunt and honest than he is usually) but also has to do with the fact that they have an unspoken agreement that they'll vent and then move on. With a quick eye-roll, they'll acknowledge the diss and then - two minutes later - get on with their lives. No angst and torture.

And it seems to be something they've both acknowledged - that they have this sort of relationship. In "Kara":

Clark: What's wrong, Lois? I thought you'd be happy to get rid of me?
Lois: Are you kidding? Who am I gonna pick on?
Clark: [with a smile] I'm sure you'll find someone.

They both know and acknowledge that Lois 'picks' on him and he doesn't mind.

And, imo, that's changes, as well, over the course of S7. (Much to my chagrin, because I enjoyed that aspect of the Clois ship.) In S7, we don't really see much of Lois picking on Clark. In fact, much the opposite. They're scenes are brief and short, but heartfelt. Now, in S8, they've moved on to spending even more time on Clois scenes & how they can be both comic and intense. And that's a good thing. If they had the same relationship and the same types of convos in S8 that they were having in S4, then TPTB weren't showing an evolution... but TPTB did something right, here, and have shown how Clark & Lois have gotten closer and are much more comfortable revealing their 'true' selves around each other.

Lois not repeating the same mistake she did with Ollie: I think we know that Lois can handle being with a super-hero because of her personality. She had a break-down with Oliver because she has issues with her dad. That's understandable to me.

But just like I don't believe that scenes with Clark constantly walking away from being a super-hero (such as choosing to walk away from the cape and go into the farm to play 'house' with Lana) means that he'll be unable to handle be a superhero, I don't believe that a scene where Lois chooses to break up with Oliver Queen means that she'll never be able to handle being a super-hero's wife.

If I choose to accept that Clark will eventually get there, then I have to accept that Lois will eventually get there, as well. Do I hope that S8 will show us how/why exactly? Absolutely. One of the reasons I'm hoping the go more into the Lollie relationship is because I'd like to see this question addressed: "Why will Lois work it out with Clark in the future and she didn't with Oliver?"

It could simply be that Clark Kent/Superman will be worth fighting for. (I would fight for him. ) Or it could it be that, ultimately, Lois wasn't cool with who the GA/Ollie is and his approach to justice. (A very canon approach to her view of super-heroes like Batman.)

But I'd like for it to be addressed. We'll just have to wait and see, though, because I'm still waiting for the answer to the eternal question: "How on EARTH is this Clark Kent going to become Superman?"

And it goes to show that they're going pretty slowly with Clois, still, because they HAVEN'T addressed this issue... but I think they will by series end.

In summation:

I ship SVClark and SVLois not only because it's meant to be (which is a nice perk, I'll admit) but because I truly believe that SVLois has been written as a better foil for SVClark than Lana and Chloe have. To me, she is the best of the 3 women and, really, the only one who can be Clark's equal. To me, "SV" has shown me why this is since S4. Even if the ending was not written and Lois Lane was named Samantha Sue, I would still 'ship Samantha Sue with Clark Kent over Chloe and Lana. The Chlark 'ship and the Clana 'ship have flaws in them that I cannot get past. I'll never get over the fact that Chloe betrayed Clark with Lionel. No true soul-mate does that. I'll never get over the fact that Lana married Lex Luthor and killed a woman with almost no remorse; married Lex Luthor; tried to kill Lex Luthor and Lionel Luthor & treats Clark horribly.

Lois, imo, is fresh and pure in a way that Chloe and Lana are not. She's got honor that I think that Chloe and Lana don't have. And I'm not talking about petty things like 'banging her boss' or stuff like that that Chlark/Clana fans love to bring up. She got drunk at an egnagement party? I'm surrounded by Ivy League professors (some of whom are Nobel Prize WINNERS) and I've seen them drunk on more than one occasion. It doesn't make Lois an idiot or not worthy of Clark Kent. It just makes her a woman who drank too much at her cousin's engagement party. It happens... and, on TV, it happens frequently[/b].

I'm talking about a basic moral code that consists of things like being loyal to your loved ones above all else. Or thinking that killing people is wrong (something that both Chloe and Lana have issues with -- both think that murder is justified in certain cases... I find that morally ambigious and I can't see how one could look at them and think THEY are worthy of Superman).

To me, there is no contest that Lois emodies not only the best of Lana and Chloe, but she is - in her own, unique way - much better than both of them. Is she flawed? Absolutely. Does she have her own issues? Hell, yes. But none of those flaws prevent her from standing toe to toe with Superman and holding her own as an equal.

You haven't seen that in "SV"? That's fine, I understand - it's all subjective. But to think that TPTB aren't showing us that is again subjective. From what I (and others) have seen, the series has gone out of the way to show an evolution of friendship, attraction, trust, mutual respect, and love between Clark and Lois. Them taking a step into the romantic territory is a natural progression in the evolution of their relationship - not a lightswitch or out of the blue.

I think that TPTB have gotten out of the way to show why Clana [i]isn't meant to be. Clark is never 100% himself around Lana - from the Pilot to "Arctic"... it's a relationship full of angst, secrets, and lies. (And, yes, I blame Clark for this even more than I blame Lana. It's not all Lana's fault.) I think that Clark and Lana loved each other deeply, were intensely attracted to each other, but couldn't - when it came down to it - trust each other enough to make it work. They never trusted each other and, therefore, they didn't make each other happy. They're tortured souls when they're around each other and don't make each other better people. Also, I think that Clark fell in love with an "ideal" version of Lana (something even Lana worries about) and once he came to terms with who she really was, I don't think he loved her as much as he did before. Did he still love her? Yes -- but not in the same way that the young boy fell in love with love with the young girl a decade or so ago. They are childhood sweathearts and I think that they'll always hold a special place in each other's hearts. But I think that Clark outgrew that love and was clinging on in S7, even when it was bad for him.

And, on the flip side, I also think that the series has laid down the foundation quite well as to why Lois and Clark are meant to be. The contrast between Clark Kent when he's with Lois Lane vs. when he's with Lana is like night and day. I see him so much stronger and pro-active around Lois. I see the flirtatious banter and my lips quirk up in joy... I see the way they dance around each other and it's fun & sexy. And, imo, their attraction is not only obvious to the viewers, but the series has gone out of the way to say that - in the SV-world - it's a known thing to the others - Chloe, Ollie, Lana, Jimmy, Martha.... Clearly, the foundation is there and they've built on it, brick by brick. The final pieces are being put down in S8.... and it makes sense to me. The only 'ship, really, that makes sense to me. And, no, it's no the mythos lover in me that says that - it's the "SV"-fan in me that says that.

They're are, brick by brick, laying down the foundation for Clois. I think they're doing it rather slowly... but the end result is going to be a very SOLID relationship. At least, that's the way I see it. :)

[geminis]

OK, so I'm going to preface my response with two things: (1) I'm not setting out to "convert" you to Clois. I think that one of the beautiful things about this show is that we can all watch and be passionate about different aspects of it... I can be passionate about Clois and you can love Clana... it's all "correct", imo & (2) I've never been a Clana shipper... but I also don't "hate" Lana. Just bear that in mind. :)

Your question was (in a nutshell) how has "SV" shown us - leading up to S7 - how/why Lois is the best girl for Clark. Also, in S8, are they building up the Clois in a natural way that builds off of S7? I think you believe that it's not (that it's too much, too soon, and that Lois pretty much is not 'worthy' of Clark Kent). Some of my responses are part of other posts I've made in the past (sorry, I just didn't want to type it all out again).

Here are my thoughts:

I feel they have laid down the groundwork for this, actually. In a way that goes well beyond the shallow and superficial.

At this point in time, I feel that there is only woman that Clark has been in love with: Lana Lang. I think that he knows that his life would have been easier if he had been in love with Chloe, instead, but it never worked out that way. He couldn't force himself to love her like that, so they - instead - ended up just being friends. And I believe that when the time comes for Clark to love again, it'll be only woman he has eyes for: Lois Lane. And, that time, it'll be for life.

A bit of background: The way they spoke to each other in the episode "Lucy", for example. Lois opened up to Clark in a way that she doesn't do... she even looks startled by how much she revealed to Clark. Clark, for his part, learns more about Lois and he's impressed by her love for her sister and her loyalty to her family. (Something I think we can all agree would be a big deal to a man destined to be Superman.) At that moment, a beautiful friendship is born... and, over the years, I've watched them closer and closer. Not on a superficial and shallow leve, but on a deeper and emotional level. Lois was there to talk to him in "Blank" and help him through his problems, even though she had no idea what was going on with him. Clark was there to comfort her in "Aqua". Lois went back to help his family during the second meteor shower and the first thing she did when she saw Clark at the hospital was to rush and hug him. In "Exposed", Lois admitted that Clark was always there for her when she needed him and she thanked him. She told Lana that she would be lucky "to end up with someone as honorable as Clark Kent some day" and I think that was MUCH more than just an anvil. It was a heartfelt insight into how SVLois views SVClark.

She helped throw him a surprise birthday party in S5, even going as far as to back a cake for him. And she gives him a journal because she knows he has a lot of thoughts he needs to get out, but he doesn't like to talk. Then, in S6, he was there for her during the Ollie situation... and they became closer and closer, as friends.

And, then, we have a Clark Kent who flat out tells Lois that there are times when he thinks that she knows him better than anyone. Again, I don't think that was just an anvil. I think that was an insight into how Clark views Lois and the dynamics of their relationship. And that was 2 years ago -- they've only gotten closer since then.

To me, this is more than enough for a solid foundation that tells me why Clark and Lois will - ulimately - be very happy together & are destined to be wonderful together. Right now, in this moment, their thoughts have not gone that path & who knows if they will in "SV" ever. But honestly? I think they've both thought about it. And I think that when they're both older and wiser, his attitude towards Lois is not going to what it was towards Chloe. That if Lois approached him with, say, a proclamation of love, I don't think he'd dismiss like he did with Chloe. Because, honestly, I can see between Lois and Clark something that never existed with Chloe or Lana: a deep, inherent, sense of trust and respect for the other person. Without even knowing Clark's secret, I already feel like Lois knows him better than anyone and understands him & his moods and can just let him be. And Clark, for his part, can get through to Lois in a way that a lot of people can't...

Present Relationship: Up to S8, we saw that Lois and Clark had gotten very limited screentim. One thing that is positive about the limited SVClois we've gotten up to this point is that there haven't been these hard obstacles between them & they haven't disappointed each other and failed in each other's eyes. (Unlike Chlark and Clana.) In S8, SVCLois is still very fresh and in it's early stages. Both have never loved each other romantically, so neither views the other with rose colored glasses. They see each other's flaws, but still manage to like the other person, in spite of them. We don't see either Clark or Lois get bitter with each other or disillusioned. We don't see these scenes of "betrayal" and angst. In fact, we see them both turn to each other for support when there is angst in their life from other sources. But they don't cause the angst in each other.

So, for me, SVClois seems the only natural end because it's the only ship that they haven't mucked up (mainly because they haven't explored it, so they didn't have a chance to muck it up). Clark is really only normal around Lois, because they don't have a heavy history and there's no expectation on her part that he has to live up to... Lois, of course, wouldn't care if he had expectations of her, because she doesn't give a damn what a man wants from her. If he likes her for who she is, great, if not, he can go to hell. I think there is probably something liberating in that for Clark.

Lois, on her part, sees in a Clark a man that she is looking for, but is not ready for, yet. She knows this, I think, subconciously, but not consciously & when she does, that'll be the day she falls in love with Clark Kent. [Note: I think that this day occured in "Instinct" when she had a meltdown at watching him make out with the girl.] Clark, on his part, likes and respects Lois (and, yes, he is physically attracted to her) but he's not ready for her. She's way too much for him to handle when he's just gotten his heart crushed by Lana.

They are perfect for each other. One day. Not today. But, one day, their future selves will realize that the perfect person was there all along... and SV has shown to me why that is. Why - down the line - Lois is better for him than Chloe or Lana. I do think that S8 has rushed it a bit from Lois's side, but - starting with "Apocolypse" we saw the changing feelings that Lois had towards Clark. A lot of Cloisers were saying that it was obvious that Lois was getting a crush on Clark. (Amongst other things, she was a lot nicer to him that she'd ever been before.)

Clark's mistakes with Lana & how it affects Clois: I see SVClark telling SVLois in the future what his secret is (instead of Lois finding out through some other means). I think that the Clana/Clois relationship has been contrasted well when it comes to this. Choosing to tell her, I mean. I base that on the way he behaved with her in "Crimson". In that episode, he made it point to show her his 'leaping' power and that mirrors when he carried Lana and 'leapt' with her in "Reckoning" and proposed to Lana. At that moment, he was showing his trust in Lana and how much he cared for her by exposing himself to her that way. Ultimately, it didn't matter, because Lana didn't remember (similar to how Lois didn't remember in "Crimson") but the action and implication were the same.

And I don't think it was only because he was on Red-K. By contrast, in "Crimson", he has opportunity to reveal himself to Lana the same night he showed his powers to Lois and he chooses not to. He has enough control over himself to not do that. And a lot of people brush off his moment with Lois as him just being competitive towards Ollie, but that doesn't make sense to me, because he has more reason to be competitive and hostile towards Lex. When he's convincing Lana to stay with him, he has more reason to say, "Lex? He's nothing. So what if he's a millionaire? I can burn things with my eyes, fly you to the moon, and run you to Paris. We can rule the world..." or whatever. But he doesn't. He doesn't use his powers as leverage and doesn't use the Red-K to reveal himself to Lana. He does with Lois, though, and that's very telling.

That's actually one of the things I like about SVClois and makes me thing that they're more of an ideal ship than Chlark and Clana. I think that they don't walk on eggshells around each other, while Chlark and Clana do. This, in part, has to do with Lois's very blunt nature (which, in turn, impacts Clark and makes him more blunt and honest than he is usually) but also has to do with the fact that they have an unspoken agreement that they'll vent and then move on. With a quick eye-roll, they'll acknowledge the diss and then - two minutes later - get on with their lives. No angst and torture.

And it seems to be something they've both acknowledged - that they have this sort of relationship. In "Kara":

Clark: What's wrong, Lois? I thought you'd be happy to get rid of me?
Lois: Are you kidding? Who am I gonna pick on?
Clark: [with a smile] I'm sure you'll find someone.

They both know and acknowledge that Lois 'picks' on him and he doesn't mind.

And, imo, that's changes, as well, over the course of S7. (Much to my chagrin, because I enjoyed that aspect of the Clois ship.) In S7, we don't really see much of Lois picking on Clark. In fact, much the opposite. They're scenes are brief and short, but heartfelt. Now, in S8, they've moved on to spending even more time on Clois scenes & how they can be both comic and intense. And that's a good thing. If they had the same relationship and the same types of convos in S8 that they were having in S4, then TPTB weren't showing an evolution... but TPTB did something right, here, and have shown how Clark & Lois have gotten closer and are much more comfortable revealing their 'true' selves around each other.

Lois not repeating the same mistake she did with Ollie: I think we know that Lois can handle being with a super-hero because of her personality. She had a break-down with Oliver because she has issues with her dad. That's understandable to me.

But just like I don't believe that scenes with Clark constantly walking away from being a super-hero (such as choosing to walk away from the cape and go into the farm to play 'house' with Lana) means that he'll be unable to handle be a superhero, I don't believe that a scene where Lois chooses to break up with Oliver Queen means that she'll never be able to handle being a super-hero's wife.

If I choose to accept that Clark will eventually get there, then I have to accept that Lois will eventually get there, as well. Do I hope that S8 will show us how/why exactly? Absolutely. One of the reasons I'm hoping the go more into the Lollie relationship is because I'd like to see this question addressed: "Why will Lois work it out with Clark in the future and she didn't with Oliver?"

It could simply be that Clark Kent/Superman will be worth fighting for. (I would fight for him. ) Or it could it be that, ultimately, Lois wasn't cool with who the GA/Ollie is and his approach to justice. (A very canon approach to her view of super-heroes like Batman.)

But I'd like for it to be addressed. We'll just have to wait and see, though, because I'm still waiting for the answer to the eternal question: "How on EARTH is this Clark Kent going to become Superman?"

And it goes to show that they're going pretty slowly with Clois, still, because they HAVEN'T addressed this issue... but I think they will by series end.

In summation:

I ship SVClark and SVLois not only because it's meant to be (which is a nice perk, I'll admit) but because I truly believe that SVLois has been written as a better foil for SVClark than Lana and Chloe have. To me, she is the best of the 3 women and, really, the only one who can be Clark's equal. To me, "SV" has shown me why this is since S4. Even if the ending was not written and Lois Lane was named Samantha Sue, I would still 'ship Samantha Sue with Clark Kent over Chloe and Lana. The Chlark 'ship and the Clana 'ship have flaws in them that I cannot get past. I'll never get over the fact that Chloe betrayed Clark with Lionel. No true soul-mate does that. I'll never get over the fact that Lana married Lex Luthor and killed a woman with almost no remorse; married Lex Luthor; tried to kill Lex Luthor and Lionel Luthor & treats Clark horribly.

Lois, imo, is fresh and pure in a way that Chloe and Lana are not. She's got honor that I think that Chloe and Lana don't have. And I'm not talking about petty things like 'banging her boss' or stuff like that that Chlark/Clana fans love to bring up. I'm talking about a basic moral code that consists of things like being loyal to your loved ones above all else. Or thinking that killing people is wrong (something that both Chloe and Lana have issues with).

To me, there is no contest that Lois emodies not only the best of Lana and Chloe, but she is - in her own, unique way - much better than both of them. Is she flawed? Absolutely. Does she have her own issues? Hell, yes. But none of those flaws prevent her from standing toe to toe with Superman and holding her own as an equal.

You haven't seen that in "SV"? That's fine, I understand - it's all subjective. But to think that TPTB aren't showing us that is again subjective. From what I (and others) have seen, the series has gone out of the way to show an evolution of friendship, attraction, trust, mutual respect, and love between Clark and Lois. Them taking a step into the romantic territory is a natural progression in the evolution of their relationship - not a lightswitch or out of the blue.

I think that TPTB have gotten out of the way to show why Clana isn't meant to be. Clark is never 100% himself around Lana - from the Pilot to "Arctic"... it's a relationship full of angst, secrets, and lies. (And, yes, I blame Clark for this even more than I blame Lana. It's not all Lana's fault.) I think that Clark and Lana loved each other deeply, were intensely attracted to each other, but couldn't - when it came down to it - trust each other enough to make it work. They never trusted each other and, therefore, they didn't make each other happy. They're tortured souls when they're around each other and don't make each other better people. Also, I think that Clark fell in love with an "ideal" version of Lana (something even Lana worries about) and once he came to terms with who she really was, I don't think he loved her as much as he did before. Did he still love her? Yes -- but not in the same way that the young boy fell in love with love with the young girl a decade or so ago. They are childhood sweathearts and I think that they'll always hold a special place in each other's hearts. But I think that Clark outgrew that love and was clinging on in S7, even when it was bad for him.

And, on the flip side, I also think that the series has laid down the foundation quite well as to why Lois and Clark are meant to be. I see him so much stronger and pro-active around Lois. I see the flirtatious banter and my lips quirk up in joy... I see the way they dance around each other and it's fun & sexy. And, imo, their attraction is not only obvious to the viewers, but the series has gone out of the way to say that - in the SV-world - it's a known thing to the others - Chloe, Ollie, Lana, Jimmy, Martha.... Clearly, the foundation is there and they've built on it, brick by brick. The final pieces are being put down in S8.... and it makes sense to me. The only 'ship, really, that makes sense to me. And, no, it's no the mythos lover in me that says that - it's the "SV"-fan in me that says that.

They're are, brick by brick, laying down the foundation for Clois. I think they're doing it rather slowly... but the end result is going to be a very SOLID relationship. At least, that's the way I see it.


If you weren't married and I weren't straight, I'd love you for this post. Saying that, I still love you for this post. :lol: I so totally agree with everything. :D

[eas]

If you weren't married and I weren't straight, I'd love you for this post. Saying that, I still love you for this post. :lol: I so totally agree with everything. :D

We can still love each other.... (shhhh! don't tell my husband!!). :lol:

[hiler1988]

Al and Miles weren't ready for Clark and Lois until Lana was totally out of the way so I do believe that this was their intention...however, I think the new showrunners are handling the situation in a more efficient manor!! Last year I really just watched the show for the sake of continuing my love for the show...but it really didn't interest me...HOWEVER, this season I am tuning in every week to watch the show and I must admit that I really like the whole 'Clois' love...It's pretty cool!! They've added humour back into Smallville, when was the last time we saw a bit of decent humour in this show?? It's been constant upset and brooding for the past three years!!

[geminis]

We can still love each other.... (shhhh! don't tell my husband!!). :lol:

Yay! *hugs* Your secret's safe with me, don't ask, don't tell. :)

Clark and Lois are meant to be and could never be awkward. Especially here on Smallville.

[Genny]

i am rather pleased with the clois progression. that is kind of the reason why i watch the show.

Yeah me too. I enjoy watching them every week, they make the show for me. I like the progression they've had and it feels believable. I like that the writers have now progressed Clark's story toward Metropolis, because in my opinion they held it back too long. And I still think Clark and Lana should have ended in season 2, I just feel that by prolonging that relationship the progression of the show was slowed down as was clark's progression. The way the writers are potraying Clois now is kind of pushing Clark to where he should have really been by now, but that's just my opinion.

[Krpyto]

I posted this in another thread, but we decided to move the discussion here:

I posted:eas replied:



I replied:

eas replied:

So is this thread a better place to discuss this? Please answer, eas & other Clois fans. Thanks.

As for Lois being drunk: Wasn't Lois drinking at one point in the original Superman movie? And smoking cigarettes too? This didn't stop Clark from falling for her. This doesnt matter at all. Happens every day.

I don't see this as being manufacutred at all. In fact it seems to be a normal progression. Of course they have moved from the original premise. For goodness sake this is Season 8 not only are they no longer in High School they havn't been for 4 years. It was time to move on and that is what this season is all about!

[Guidron]

I'm not about to repost that entire thing again eas, but I have to say, you seem to hit the nail on the head with how I view CLois almost everytime I read one of your posts on the subject.

The subtlety in the way that Lois and Clark have displayed their inner feelings for each other over the years has been great. Little looks here, small gestures there, there's been a solid foundation built beneath them and where they're going.

Originally I was a Clana fan (until Lois showed up). However, as you say they have shown why that relationship won't work. Trust was and is a HUGE issue between them. Not to mention that Clark for so long had Lana on a pedestal. He set up expectations for her that no woman could truly meet. When he finally discovers her true self, he finds that out for himself. She can't live up to what he's made her out to be.

As for Chloe, that is a relationship that COULD have worked at one time, but now just isn't possible. Chloe kind of had Clark on that same pedestal, but Clark just didn't feel the same way. Now they've both moved forward and yet formed such a deep friendship that building a relationship out of it would simply tear it apart. They both care about each other more than usual friends do, but it's not something that could progress romantically.

As for Lois and Clark, neither of them have the pedestal problem. They view each other as equals (sometimes perhaps even slight inferiors?). They are more honest with each other than with anyone else and this speaks volumes as to why they can work out where others didn't. They've said it themselves as eas pointed out before, they each seem to know the other better than anyone else does. There has always been a physical attraction between them, as has been shown multiple times. However, Clark was blinded by his feelings for Lana and Lois has been denying them because Clark was with someone else.

This season they're spending more and more time around each other, neither are attached to anyone and they're starting to realize just how much they care about the other. It seems like a whirlwind because we're used to seeing things stretched out for so long. (Clana anyone?) I'm one that's solidly convinced that they are more right for each other than any of the other characters. And as eas also said, it's not due to the fact that it's Canon, I just genuinely believe that SVLois and SVClark are an excellent match.

[Dar'el]

Thanks for taking the time to post all that. I can tell you put a lot of thought into it.

I don't know, to me it seems like the Clois banter and the episodes like Committed where Lois is forced to confess her love for Clark under threat of torture are not a back and forth but part of the ongoing progression of their friendship and love.

They both get really snarky with each other in order to hide their true feelings from each other. Neither of them are like that with anyone else on the show.

Now, with episodes like Crimson where we get to see them in love because they are under a spell and then Lois doesn't even remember it -- that I can see as totally unnecessary at this point.

It was their decision to introduce Lois in season 4, and since they did that, one can only expect that by season 8, there would be some progression with Lois and Clark. Had they waited to bring Lois in, then perhaps they could have had Clark sport the eyeglasses and get an internship at the Planet and then meet Lois for the first time there. But, they did not go that route. So, here we are in season 8 with loads of Clois sexual tension.



all do respect miss Chick, I felt that Crimson was the first episode where lois started looking at clark differently, not while drugged, but after she came down to earth. she looked at the Mix tape, and said "wow white snake, i must have really fallen for you" or something like that. then she gave this look , thinking about clark in tha way, and that was when she started haveing theses feelings, that swhy she gave clark the application for the planet, it all fits so I don't see crimson as a throw awy episode, but thats just my opinion,

[Guidron]

all do respect miss Chick, I felt that Crimson was the first episode where lois started looking at clark differently, not while drugged, but after she came down to earth. she looked at the Mix tape, and said "wow white snake, i must have really fallen for you" or something like that. then she gave this look , thinking about clark in tha way, and that was when she started haveing theses feelings, that swhy she gave clark the application for the planet, it all fits so I don't see crimson as a throw awy episode, but thats just my opinion,

Good point, she did have that sly look that she gives him at the end of that episode.

[LovelyLoisLane]

Which is also true on the comics and STAS, except for one person, Clark Kent.

This is quite correct and it is something that some people are far too willing to overlook if you ask me.

Superman's relationship with Lois isn't just special to him, it is special to Lois. She had hardened her heart and it took a 'super' man to make her open up again.

The same is happening on SV I think.

[stenochick]

all do respect miss Chick, I felt that Crimson was the first episode where lois started looking at clark differently, not while drugged, but after she came down to earth. she looked at the Mix tape, and said "wow white snake, i must have really fallen for you" or something like that. then she gave this look , thinking about clark in tha way, and that was when she started haveing theses feelings, that swhy she gave clark the application for the planet, it all fits so I don't see crimson as a throw awy episode, but thats just my opinion,

Thanks for the reply. I agree with you. I think my original point was that at this point in season 8, we don't need an episode where they are under some kind of spell or alternate reality in order for them to be romantic.

[eas]

This season they're spending more and more time around each other, neither are attached to anyone and they're starting to realize just how much they care about the other. It seems like a whirlwind because we're used to seeing things stretched out for so long. (Clana anyone?) I'm one that's solidly convinced that they are more right for each other than any of the other characters. And as eas also said, it's not due to the fact that it's Canon, I just genuinely believe that SVLois and SVClark are an excellent match.

Yes, I agree. I think that both Clark and Lois have had a certain level of feelings for each other & both have suppressed them for a variety of reasons. Lois, I'm sure, felt that Clark was madly in love with Lana (and she'd be right) and didn't want to 'go there'. Clark, for his part, is a very loyal person and his heart belonged to Lana -- it would completely go against his nature to act on his attraction for Lois when he's got unresolved issues with Lana. And, honestly, I think that Clark has always been in more denial regarding his attraction for Lois than Lois has been about her attraction towards Clark.

Now, in S8, we see that Clark and Lois are working together, side by side, and the very nature of the time they spend together forces them to come to face-to-face with their hidden attraction. It keeps bubbling to the surface (in Lois's case, bubbling OVER when she catches him with Maxima) and they're trying to stuff the feelings back inside. Neither is ready, yet, to "go there" because they've both recently gotten their hearts broken (Lois by Ollie and Clark by Lana) and the two feel like it'll be "too weird" to go there with each other.

If we had a Clark Kent and Lois Lane who spent 24/7 together and the two weren't attracted to each other? Then that would be a disaster! One of the smartest things PS3 are doing is that they're acknowledging that they can't have Clark Kent and Lois Lane being together all the time and not show them getting closer and falling for each other. That goes against the very nature of the famous relationship. If they hung out together all the time and it had no effect on their relationship (meaning, the two didn't start flirting) then folks would be really confused as to how these two hook up in the future.

Also, I feel like Clark isn't going to be ready to fall in love with anyone else (at least, admit it, and pro-actively go after the girl) until he's 100% sure she's The One. I think he's on his way there with Lois, but he's not there, yet.

Lois, for her part, loves flirting with Clark and loves trying to get under his skin. She likes hanging out with him and she's known for being very loyal and loving to those she calls a "friend" (and, yes, I think she is loyal and loving to Clark, in her own ways). She's freaked out, though, that the flirting and friendship is turning into something more and now realizes that she doesn't just love him as a friend, but she's *in* love with him!!! And, in true Lois fashion, she's going to deny, deny, deny, deny.... because there's no way she could handle telling him and getting rejected.

[Guidron]

Yes, I agree. I think that both Clark and Lois have had a certain level of feelings for each other & both have suppressed them for a variety of reasons. Lois, I'm sure, felt that Clark was madly in love with Lana (and she'd be right) and didn't want to 'go there'. Clark, for his part, is a very loyal person and his heart belonged to Lana -- it would completely go against his nature to act on his attraction for Lois when he's got unresolved issues with Lana. And, honestly, I think that Clark has always been in more denial regarding his attraction for Lois than Lois has been about her attraction towards Clark.

I completely agree with that. The only reason that nothing has happened between these two sooner is because there was unresolved issues that they both had (and Clark still has).

[eas]

I completely agree with that. The only reason that nothing has happened between these two sooner is because there was unresolved issues that they both had (and Clark still has).

And that the two had never hung out enough together to be forced to realize those feelings. Up until this point, they hung out sporadically & usually with other people around. Now, they're thrown together all the time and - as it so happens with co-workers a lot - they're in close proximity and it's getting harder and harder to deny those feelings.

I don't think it's odd at all that spending 24/7 together = intense attraction and love. What's telling is that Clark lived with Lana & worked closely with Chloe for years and it DIDN'T equal intense attraction and love. All that time working with Chloe and he was never overcome with feelings (the way he yelled at Lois in "Plastique") and when he lived with Lana, he was constantly conflicted about his love for her. Why the conflict? She loves him and he loves her. They're living together and openly dating. She even knows his secret... and they're STILL not happy.

How can that be an ideal ship? Clearly, S8 Clois is laying down the foundation for a couple who enjoy being in each other's company & who spend a lot of time working together & that time leads to feelings that they both can't keep denying. Clark is well on his way to having the perfect relationship with Lois that he never had with either Lana or Chloe, imo.

[SVsleuth]

Thanks for your reply, eas. Y'all give me something to think about, & new ways to look at scenes I might have tended to overlook before. Thanks.

[kris10]

Welcome to ksite Melekith :D


SVsleuth I don't understand one thing and I'll admit I didn't read the entire post, in fact I stopped at the first line because I was like..HUH?... What does Lois being drunk have anything to do with Clark falling for her? She's an adult of Legal age at a social event, in which she's highly emotional and she gets drunk *gasp* normal people do that all the time! And we haven't seen Lois drunk since season 4...Granted she was under age then, but she was at college...It happens..Trust me from experience...Now we have seen her drink on the show...But this is only the second time for drunk Lois on screen...Unless I'm having a dumb moment.
So I just don't get that logic at all..Sorry.
the fact that she has to piss all over her cousin cus shes happy and lois is miserable and competing with her..dont know just a thought....bad writing???

[individuall]

the fact that she has to piss all over her cousin cus shes happy and lois is miserable and competing with her..dont know just a thought....bad writing???

No, I think PS3 was using Lois as a voice for all the anti Chimmy fans actually...And yes Lois put her foot in her mouth (a very Lois Lane thing to do) but she felt really bad for doing it afterwards and she was really sorry...She didn't even joke about it. She got upset when Chloe tried to brush it off. She very much regretted it and apologized. And Chloe forgave her and at the end she was finally on board the Chimmy train..

She even said the reason she didn't like Chimmy was because she was afraid that her cousin was going to get hurt and she couldn't bear seeing her go through the heart ache she had to endure..So yeah, the toast wasn't Lois' proudest moment...But in the end it did serve a purpose I think

[kris10]

No, I think PS3 was using Lois as a voice for all the anti Chimmy fans actually...And yes Lois put her foot in her mouth (a very Lois Lane thing to do) but she felt really bad for doing it afterwards and she was really sorry...She didn't even joke about it. She got upset when Chloe tried to brush it off. She very much regretted it and apologized. And Chloe forgave her and at the end she was finally on board the Chimmy train..
yea well like i said bad writing what happened to lois's promise to never touch the stuff again?.....like i said i think they should have written it a litte different.. imo..they could have had her on the anti chimmy train but not like a drunk baffoon. thats just a disservice to her character and it ticked some fans off and even though some of you dont care you should cus if this shows loses some of those viewers then no show for next year. an i know you all want to see em hook up....
as do i....

[individuall]

yea well like i said bad writing what happened to lois's promise to never touch the stuff again?.....like i said i think they should have written it a litte different.. imo..they could have had her on the anti chimmy train but not like a drunk baffoon. thats just a disservice to her character and it ticked some fans off and even though some of you dont care you should cus if this shows loses some of those viewers then no show for next year. an i know you all want to see em hook up....
as do i....

LOL. C'mon now we've all had horrible hangovers where we "swear we'll never drink again" but it never holds up...I mean I've done it. My friends have done it...Yet a couple weekends later...;)

Anyway, I think they had to make Lois drunk..It was the only way she'd ever get her feelings out otherwise...I know some fans were a little upset but no one was 'I'm never watching SV again..' mad...it was more 'I wish they hadn't done that, but...As painful as it was...It was funny and we got a nice Clark swooping in to save the day move So it wasn't too bad...And like I said Lois felt horrible...So honestly I don't think people were too upset about it...At least no one I saw...It could have been handled better, but..I'm really not bothered by it...Besides it's not like Lois is getting drunk all the time..The last time we saw her intoxicated was S4...Yes we've seen her with a beer now and then...But she hasn't been wasted onscreen for a LONG time...And like I said making a fool of herself/putting her foot in her mouth...Is very Lois Lane..And you also have to remember she's YOUNG..She's going to make a fool out of self and get too drunk sometimes. I think a lot of people forget that this Lois Lane is younger than any Lois we've been exposed to. She's going to be a bit more brash and unpolished...She's going to make mistakes...But she's also going to learn from them...So I can forgive her for her faux pas :)

[kris10]

LOL. C'mon now we've all had horrible hangovers where we "swear we'll never drink again" but it never holds up...I mean I've done it. My friends have done it...Yet a couple weekends later...;)

Anyway, I think they had to make Lois drunk..It was the only way she'd ever get her feelings out otherwise...I know some fans were a little upset but no one was 'I'm never watching SV again..' mad...it was more 'I wish they hadn't done that, but...As painful as it was...It was funny and we got a nice Clark swooping in to save the day move So it wasn't too bad...And like I said Lois felt horrible...So honestly I don't think people were too upset about it...At least no one I saw...It could have been handled better, but..I'm really not bothered by it...Besides it's not like Lois is getting drunk all the time..The last time we saw her intoxicated was S4...Yes we've seen her with a beer now and then...But she hasn't been wasted onscreen for a LONG time...And like I said making a fool of herself/putting her foot in her mouth...Is very Lois Lane..And you also have to remember she's YOUNG..She's going to make a fool out of self and get too drunk sometimes. I think a lot of people forget that this Lois Lane is younger than any Lois we've been exposed to. She's going to be a bit more brash and unpolished...She's going to make mistakes...But she's also going to learn from them...So I can forgive her for her faux pas :)

yes but to say its an endearing quality and funny is stretching and i actually drink a lot and let me tell you its one thing at a bar ok cus its expected but entirely different at your cousin's engagement party...and as far as ticking off some fans this isnt the only thing thats ticking them off i wouldnt be stupid enough to say that this one thing is the straw that broke the camels back..
by the way i didnt say you said its an endearing quality but the excuse that oh thats just lois and making excuses doesnt wash or make it easier to draw in more fans to like her character more its hurting. point being ps3 arent helping certain fans with the transition lets just put it that way and this is just one example....

[Kal-ed]

Don't get me wrong, because I love the chemistry between Welling and Durance (though she really acts circles around him most of the time in their scenes), but this whole L&C transplant into Smallville, I think, has upset what little ballast this show has had over the years, in terms of its overall direction and tone. I wasn't totally sold on the whole Clark-to-Metropolis thing from the beginning, since it pretty much takes the Smallville-ishness out of the show and is trying to make up perceived lost ground from the Gough/Millar Era in order to get to Clark's ultimate destiny as Superman, but I'm trying to give it a chance, since this show might not be on this time next year, anyway.

All of this Metropolis business seems forced: from Clark's sudden employment at the Daily Planet (with no physical disguise [he's still Smallvillle Clark] or real direction from higher-ups -- Lois is his boss?), to how Tess switches between Luthor Mansion and the Daily Planet as her base of operations, and how Oliver is sometimes in the picture in Metropolis, sometimes not, and Chimmy's pending nuptials, and where is Davis Bloom? (Whew!)

But this post is really about Lois & Clark. Because if you remove that whole element from last night's show, then you're just left with one of those annoyingly generic "filler" episodes that we see nearly three times a year -- the ones with a no-name villain and contrived plot that doesn't really serve to further anything relevant or indespensible to the season's general story arc, but are probably included to fill out the network's total episode demand for the season (or something along those lines). And, all of the dramatic irony notwithstanding as it relates to L&C's relationship thus far, this show seems to be really confused about what it's trying to be every week -- especially if they're going to tease us with a Lois-loves-Clark revelation and then put that stuff on hold and go back to their heretofore established Smallville relationship of verbal jousts and feigned dislike of each other, in order to delay as long as possible the inevitable L&C hook-up per all Superman continuities, which allows the show to deal with the other aforementioned un-integrated plot elements they've unleashed from Pandora's Box for this season.

Hey, it's great to get a breath of fresh air once in a while and have an episode that may be "fun" or "fan-friendly", the but the sign of a strong show is when the overall season obejctive is still pursued while stopping at various points of interest along the way (last week's "Instinct" with the re-imagining of Maxima is a good example). Because it's really annoying to have such a great fanboy element as L&C trumpeted out as a major episode event, only to see it recede into the background in later weeks as if it never happened -- only to be revived later on, out of the blue, as if it's been part of the status quo from the beginning. :confused:

I sort of agree with cause 4 years ago I would have been right there with you, now, as we come closer to the end, its understandable that all this iconic situations start unveiling, one of them is Clois partnership and romantic ship.

Granted the romance has taken a tad more focus this past two episodes (in Toxic it was mostly Lollie and Odyssey was non shipper at all) but it will be toned down, Lois isnt even in the next episode, its all about Doomsday, the one after that is about the season´s main arc (as per TPTB) which is the double identity, after that we have a good Kara closure episode, with Kryptonian mythos, then a Chloe/Brainiac FOS centered episode, then a Brainiac arc, with the Legion included, afterwards Lana comes back and Lois is out of the picture, with what I imagine more Doomsy moments. so chill, this is just the beggining. Im glad its like in earlier seasons where the gloomyness started towards the second half, while the first episode were a tad more lighthearted.

[individuall]

yes but to say its an endearing quality and funny is stretching and i actually drink a lot and let me tell you its one thing at a bar ok cus its expected but entirely different at your cousin's engagement party...and as far as ticking off some fans this isnt the only thing thats ticking them off i wouldnt be stupid enough to say that this one thing is the straw that broke the camels back..

I didn't say it was endearing (it was a little funny though)..I completely agree it was a definite 'ouch' moment..It didn't make her look good AT ALL..But I do commend her for realizing that and even though she couldn't take it back, she showed regret/remorse for her actions and vehemently apologized....And yeah, it probably wasn't a great idea to get up and make a drunken speech at your cousin's engagement party, I'm not saying it was a great moment..She made a mistake..All I'm saying is too me that makes her all the more human and relatable...And that's what I like about Lois. She's human. She makes mistakes. She puts her foot in her mouth. Something I am, unfortunately very familiar with myself..I'm not saying it's an attractive quality...But it's one that Lois Lane has always had...And it makes her all the more realistic to me.
And Lois has been ticking off fans for as long as she's been on the show...Not me...But I know some (I don't think it's the majority but some) fans have a problem with her. and you know what that's OK. I like Lois just the way she is. She's not perfect. She makes a fool out herself sometimes. Like I said before it's one of the reasons I like her so much, I can relate to her better than anyone else on the show. My name can also be found in the dictionary under 'faux pas'...And even though I know some fans don't like her or Find her annoying....A lot of fans do enjoy her...And I've seen more positivity about Lois Lane this season than any other...On this site anyway. Lois isn't everyone's cup of tea. And some fans are going to hate her no matter what. And that's fine. But me I like her just the way she is faux pas and all..I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that aspect.

[Kalista]

the fact that she has to piss all over her cousin cus shes happy and lois is miserable and competing with her..dont know just a thought....bad writing???


I'm glad that Clark tried to encourage her to be more supportive. He was thinking of Chloe and I appreciate his concern. She knows how she behaves when she drinks, so why overindulge at your cousin's engagement party and risk causing a scene.

But I think there was some truth to what Clark said about jealousy. She's had countless failed romances and it must have bothered her a little.

[kris10]

Ya know its fine people are ok with it the point i was making its not helping...and we are all flawed...
the lois lane character i know would not have to drink to tell anyone how she feels if she doenst like something...i do think the way it should have been done was to have her put her foot in her mouth in front of chloe and not to JQ public and that would have been much better

[individuall]

Sorry. i responded to your full post below :)

[Kal-ed]

point being ps3 arent helping certain fans with the transition lets just put it that way ....

I agree with you, although I love my Lois, I dont think TPTB are doing anything to make her a tad more likeable to the general audience, I mean again, I love her but in the intrest of popularity tptb have made no atempts to make her less "in your face" which although I love, I understand people who dont.

They could have had Lois´s foot in mouth case with out her being drunk, then get her drunk and so on, it was a tiny, IMO, compromise that wouldnt have hurt the scene, nor the following ones and Lois could have been more likeable.

Lois is that kind of character people love or hate and rarely causes indiference.

[loislanechick]

I love clois scenes, they've almost become my favourite thing about smallville..yes, season 8 is different from the previous seasons, but some things have to change..it would be boring to see clark spend all his life on the farm..of course he has to come to the city and become a hero..and lois is part of that destiny of his..and I apsoultely LOVE the new clark..he's hotter than ever :)

[individuall]

Ya know its fine people are ok with it the point i was making its not helping...and we are all flawed...
the lois lane character i know would not have to drink to tell anyone how she feels if she doenst like something...i do think the way it should have been done was to have her put her foot in her mouth in front of chloe and not to JQ public and that would have been much better

I'm sticking the age thing into this agruement again. Lois is still young..Early 20's..She's not yet the Lois Lane she will be in the future...She's going to make mistakes and not use the best judgement sometimes...I'm sorry it happens to the best of us. No, it doesn't make her look good. But most people make mistakes in their early 20's and learn and grow from them...I guarantee Lois wouldn't do what she did at Chloe's engagement party if she were 28-30 years old instead...:\
Yes, it would have been nice if she had only stuck her foot in her mouth in front of Chloe:\

[Kalista]

I'm sticking the age thing into this agruement again. Lois is still young..Early 20's..She's not yet the Lois Lane she will be in the future..\

How old is she? I thought she was 25.

[Kal-ed]

23

[individuall]

I agree with you, although I love my Lois, I dont think TPTB are doing anything to make her a tad more likeable to the general audience, I mean again, I love her but in the intrest of popularity tptb have made no atempts to make her less "in your face" which although I love, I understand people who dont.

They could have had Lois´s foot in mouth case with out her being drunk, then get her drunk and so on, it was a tiny, IMO, compromise that wouldnt have hurt the scene, nor the following ones and Lois could have been more likeable.

I sort of agree. I just don't want them to make her too 'soft' for lack of a better word. I like my Lois brash and in your face..I think they've softened her up considerably over the years...She's not as rough as S4 Lois was. But I just don't want them to ruin her character..So far I think she's been written spot on for a YOUNG Lois Lane...But that's just me.

[Mr.Magic]

How old is she? I thought she was 25.

Lois was supposed to start college when the rest started their last year of high school. That makes her about one year older; 22-24.

[kris10]

I agree with you, although I love my Lois, I dont think TPTB are doing anything to make her a tad more likeable to the general audience, I mean again, I love her but in the intrest of popularity tptb have made no atempts to make her less "in your face" which although I love, I understand people who dont.

They could have had Lois´s foot in mouth case with out her being drunk, then get her drunk and so on, it was a tiny, IMO, compromise that wouldnt have hurt the scene, nor the following ones and Lois could have been more likeable.
thanks and i dont think they are awkward.. i loved the elevator scene.....

[individuall]

How old is she? I thought she was 25.

22-23..I don't think we know Lois' exact birthday...Weird...


we know Clark's is in the Spring sometime and Chloe is in the fall...And I think Lana is the oldest (out of the three) her Bday I thought was early fall like Sept. or something....But we've never had Lois celebrate a birthday on SV before..That's a little sad...:(

[loislanechick]

Speaking of college..I was wondering the other day, what happened with their colleges?? They all enrolled but we never got to see how that ended..:confused:

[kris10]

maybe they will show her birthday this year...

[individuall]

^Maybe... *shrugs*

Anyway back on topic....Clois on SV is not awkward... Great Segue, right? :p

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


Speaking of college..I was wondering the other day, what happened with their colleges?? They all enrolled but we never got to see how that ended..:confused:

They all dropped out or got kicked out for underage drinking (looks at Lois)...And I think it's pretty safe to assume that Chloe is no longer taking night classes either...I wish the educational aspect would have been handled better on SV...I know a lot of people do...But I've let it go...Oh, well..

[loislanechick]

^Maybe... *shrugs*

Anyway back on topic....Clois on SV is not awkward... Great Segue, right? :p

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----



They all dropped out or got kicked out for underage drinking (looks at Lois)...And I think it's pretty safe to assume that Chloe is no longer taking night classes either...I wish the educational aspect would have been handled better on SV...I know a lot of people do...But I've let it go...Oh, well..

Yeah, the producers kind of forgot about the educational part, and that was weird a bit..but like you said..oh, well :)

[Ayanne]

IT's made of contrived & lightswitches. I have never seen so many ever.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


How old is she? I thought she was 25.


According to canon established, she's 25.

[Kalista]

According to canon established, she's 25.

That's what I thought....

[oberyn]

According to canon established, she's 25.

That's going by one quote with respect to how long it might have been since her father had been in a romantic relationship.


Lois: I know. Can you believe after 15 years, my dad is finally getting some action? I'm kind of happy for the old geezer.

And then referencing it against a comment with respect to the age she was when her mother died. This would have made Lois at least 21 in Season 4, assuming that Lois' statement was meant to be taken literally to mean that the 15 years since her father had "gotten some action" coincided exactly to the date of her mother's death.

This is hardly canon establishing Lois' age, though, particularly given other evidence that she was not yet 21 in Season 4 (references to her being underage in Season 5, Smallville Magazine references to her being underage in Season 5).

It's also hardly gospel truth considering that other characters have made statements which would make them appear to be much older or younger than they really are (e.g., the three separate ages Chloe has given for when her mother left her).

[individuall]

According to canon established, she's 25.

Where did you hear she was 25...She's only about a year older than Clark and co. cannon wise..
Lois was 18/19 in season 4 not 21...Or she would not have gotten kicked out of school for underage drinking...

ETA: Nevermind oberyn has already addressed the issue...What he said..

[kiariclois]

But I think there was some truth to what Clark said about jealousy. She's had countless failed romances and it must have bothered her a little.

Well -- at the end scene with Chlo-lo, Lois did say that she's jealous and admit that Clark was right. ;)

Regarding Lois drinking -- I don't see anything wrong with that. It's not such a big deal, really. The Lois Lane in comics, I remember done awful things too and I remembered the Lois Lane in the movies weren't perfect either (and she smokes while she's working -- but despite that, she has other qualities in her that are worth to make her the primary love interest for Superman. ;) Her flaws seems to get into people's nerve. :p

[individuall]

And Clark likes her flaws because they make her interesting and it keepts him guessing. Lois always fascinates/keeps him on his toes :)

[Kal-ed]

That's what I thought....


Yum yum, so Clark´s gona land himself a cougar :D Im all for that, i was going to propose a Smallville/Desperate Housewives cross over but Lois being significantly older just makes for a so much hotter pairing than the Clark/Susan I had in mind, at first I thougth Gabrielle would be so much hotter with Clark but TH, who played Lois, plays Susan so I kind went with the iconicness of it all. Anyhow, Clark, you go get Lois, she´s got a thing or two she can teach you.;)

[individuall]

But Lois isn't 25...She's 22/23..She's only a year older than Clark/Chloe/Lana..I promise. There have been several examples of this...Her getting kicked out of college for underage drinking..Her failing the last semester of high school...Her starting college...Yes, there was a reference that Lois said her mother died 15 years ago and she was 6...But SV can't do math...Exactly what age did Chloe's mom leave again? On Chloe's tombstone in season 4 it said she was born in 1987...She should be 21...But her recent stats on 'Committed' say she's 22...So go figure.
But I swear to you...Lois is 22/23 most likely the latter...Promise.
OK my little rant is done.. :)

[eas]

Thanks for your reply, eas. Y'all give me something to think about, & new ways to look at scenes I might have tended to overlook before. Thanks.

You're welcome!! Thanks for taking the time to read it and to consider my thoughts! :)

[morrigan01]

IT's made of contrived & lightswitches. I have never seen so many ever.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----




According to canon established, she's 25.

No, she's not. You're basing it on a throwaway line about her dad dating again in Gone that was about establishing a plot point, not accurate math about Lois' age. :rolleyes:

Lois was supposed to start her Freshman year in College when everyone else was starting their senior year in high school. She had her final semester of high school the year before as her father said. That made her 18 when Clark was 17. Plus the line in Recruit about her drinking underage.

So she's only at most one year older than him. That's it.

[stenochick]

But Lois isn't 25...She's 22/23..She's only a year older than Clark/Chloe/Lana..I promise. There have been several examples of this...Her getting kicked out of college for underage drinking..Her failing the last semester of high school...Her starting college...Yes, there was a reference that Lois said her mother died 15 years ago and she was 6...But SV can't do math...Exactly what age did Chloe's mom leave again? On Chloe's tombstone in season 4 it said she was born in 1987...She should be 21...But her recent stats on 'Committed' say she's 22...So go figure. And according to 'Committed' I would say Lois is only a couple months older than Chloe because of her speech..'When Chloe and I were 10 years old"
But I swear to you...Lois is 22/23 most likely the latter...Promise.
OK my little rant is done.. :)

I think Lois said, "When Chloe and I were little girls...you can't take the word of a 10-year-old."

[DontCha]

I actually think that at this point it is suppsoed to be rather awkward between the two. When you first realize you love someone, its scary, and you act weird around that person, you have conflicts, you really dont want them to know yada yada

[stenochick]

I remember in season 6, Hydro, when Clark arrived at Ollie and Lois' party, Lois said, "Don't worry, I'll make yours a virgin" regarding Clark's drink.

I wasn't sure if the implication was that Lois was okay with underage drinking but Clark was a teetotaler, or that Lois was already 21 and could drink legally, while Clark was underage and needed a virgin drink.

If that's the case, then Lois would be 22-23 depending on when Lois' bd is and what month Hydro took place.

[eas]

I think Lois said, "When Chloe and I were little girls...you can't take the word of a 10-year-old."

Yes, she said: "When we were little girls, Chloe and I made a promise. Neither of us would get married until we found our soulmate. The one person in the whole wide world that we were destined to be with. Which is why you can't take a ten-year old on their word."

Chloe was 10, Lois was either 10 or 11, depending on when her birthday falls.

----- Added 12 Minutes later -----


I remember in season 6, Hydro, when Clark arrived at Ollie and Lois' party, Lois said, "Don't worry, I'll make yours a virgin" regarding Clark's drink.

I wasn't sure if the implication was that Lois was okay with underage drinking but Clark was a teetotaler, or that Lois was already 21 and could drink legally, while Clark was underage and needed a virgin drink.

If that's the case, then Lois would be 22-23 depending on when Lois' bd is and what month Hydro took place.

When Lois was introduced, it was the summer before her freshman year of college. More than likely, she was 18. The reason for this is because most entering freshmen are 18. A few of them are 17, but we can't assume that Lois is one of those people, because she's always referred to as Chloe's "older" cousin.

Chloe's 18th birthday took place in October of S4. So, Lois was already 18 at the time of Chloe's birthday. She cannot have been 19 by the time early September rolled around, because it's very rare and almost never happens that a person enters their freshman year of college at age 19. All the references on "SV" back up that she started her freshman year at college at 18, except for one line where she referenced the number of years that her father had been a widower. It's not a stretch to imagine that she rounded up to the nearest general number (15) rather than giving an exact and accurate number of years since her mother died.

So, each season starts with these ages & they gain a year during the course of the season:

S4: 18 (CK & CS = 17)
S5: 19 (CK & CS = 18)
S6: 20 (CK & CS = 19)
S7: 21 (CK & CS = 20)
S8: 22 (CK & CS = 21)

In S6, she was either drinking underage or she'd turned 21 by the time January rolled around. (Meaning, her birthday is at some point between mid-Sept. - January.) We don't know which one. We do know that Clark is younger than her by one year and she was absolutely right to say that she'd make Clark's a virgin - he was clearly under-age. However, she also knows that he doesn't like to drink.

In S7, in May, she says to Clark in Apocolypse, "I'll buy you drink. What? Check your ID... we're all legal now." She was 22, and he had just turned 21 in the Spring.

She'll be 23 at some point this year (probably in the Fall) and Clark will turn 22 in the Spring. Chloe turned 22 in October, so she's 22 now.

I don't think this show has very many issues with under-age drinking, to be honest. Lana was shown being offered wine with her dinner in S6 (when she lived with Lex) and the only reason she abstained was because she was pregnant. Chloe & Lois drank red wine with Lana in "Spell"... they didn't think there was anything odd about it.

The only reason it's referenced with Clark is that it's Lois acknowledging that she knows that Clark doesn't like to drink. Even in "Committed" she makes a crack about getting a Shirley Temple for the lady. LOL

In short: Lois is 22. Chloe is 22. Clark is 21.

(So sorry this is detailed and stuff, but this was like one of my LSAT logic questions. This is what happens when I mix "SV" and studying. LOL)

[SVsleuth]

^^
LOL - well, actually, no one really knows HOW old Clark is. Martha and Jonathan guessed at his age when they found him, I'm sure. But, yeah, I've always thought Lois was just 1 grade ahead of Chloe in school, so less than 1 year older in age.

[individuall]

I think Lois said, "When Chloe and I were little girls...you can't take the word of a 10-year-old."

Did she? I thought she gave an age..Wow...Look at me fanwanking...Sorry about that :o

[eas]

Did she? I thought she gave an age..Wow...Look at me fanwanking...Sorry about that :o

It's OK... you're not expected to have the dialogues memorized. Unlike the one who has watched the episode 12307594 times... like I have. ;)

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


^^
LOL - well, actually, no one really knows HOW old Clark is. Martha and Jonathan guessed at his age when they found him, I'm sure. But, yeah, I've always thought Lois was just 1 grade ahead of Chloe in school, so less than 1 year older in age.

LOL... good point. I stand corrected on that. Let me amend: 21 is the fake "Earth age" that has been given to him. ;)

And, actually, this reminds me of the awesome Clana scene... isn't she the one who gave him his birthday? The scene with the cake? Not only is that a cute Clana scene, it's also a very cute Tom/Kristin scene... from the out-takes.

[individuall]

^No that's the sad part...I have watched the eppy like...More times than I can count...But I usually skip the drunken speech and fast forward to where Clark whisks her off the table or chair she's standing on..I love the sounds she makes..:D

[stenochick]

Eas:
I don't want to copy your lengthy post, but that does makes a lot of sense. It appears that Lois is a little more than a year older than Clark. I like the idea of Lois being older than Clark. It just seems like one more reason she would want to deny her feelings for him and by bossy and sarcastic with him. She may be turning 23 this fall and then Clark will turn 22 next May. Chloe turns 22 this fall. Totally works for me.

[eas]

Eas:
I don't want to copy your lengthy post, but that does makes a lot of sense. It appears that Lois is a little more than a year older than Clark. I like the idea of Lois being older than Clark. It just seems like one more reason she would want to deny her feelings for him and by bossy and sarcastic with him. She may be turning 23 this fall and then Clark will turn 22 next May. Chloe turns 22 this fall. Totally works for me.

Yes, it also goes a long way towards explaining why she was always bossy towards him & kind of looked down her nose at him. First of all, he's a small town boy & she's a big-city girl. Add in that she's a year older than him? Classic reasons to incorporate the iconic Clois interaction.

And, now, we see Lois still be be bossy towards him, but as she falls in love with him, she's freaking out. I think I'd be the same way if I fell for a guy that I always viewed as being a young, annoying, little pest. (Or so I told myself, while I gazed at his rippling muscles....) LOL

[morrigan01]

^^
LOL - well, actually, no one really knows HOW old Clark is. Martha and Jonathan guessed at his age when they found him, I'm sure. But, yeah, I've always thought Lois was just 1 grade ahead of Chloe in school, so less than 1 year older in age.

I always kinda assumed that Martha and Jonathan made Clark's birthday be the day they found him. So you're correct, technically, we don't really know exactly when he was born.

His real exact birthday could also be in the fall for all we know.

[Genny]

Actually if Clark celebrates his bithday in Spring wouldn't that make him older than Chloe, since Spring comes before Fall? And Lois is like a year or half a year older than them.

[geminis]

Actually if Clark celebrates his bithday in Spring wouldn't that make him older than Chloe, since Spring comes before Fall? And Lois is like a year or half a year older than them.

Not if it's fall of the year before.

[SnowBird]

I always kinda assumed that Martha and Jonathan made Clark's birthday be the day they found him. So you're correct, technically, we don't really know exactly when he was born.

His real exact birthday could also be in the fall for all we know.

Martha and Jonathan found Clark in the fall during football season. I'm not sure why they picked a spring birthday.

I am re-watching season one now. In the first part of S1 which would be fall it was mentioned twice that the meteor shower happened 12 years ago. I thought that Clark was 3 when they found him which would make him 15 for the Pilot. I guess we will never know when Clark's real birthday is.

[eas]

Actually if Clark celebrates his bithday in Spring wouldn't that make him older than Chloe, since Spring comes before Fall? And Lois is like a year or half a year older than them.

I was going by the academic year. In the academic year, Fall is before Spring.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----


Martha and Jonathan found Clark in the fall during football season. I'm not sure why they picked a spring birthday.

I am re-watching season one now. In the first part of S1 which would be fall it was mentioned twice that the meteor shower happened 12 years ago. I thought that Clark was 3 when they found him which would make him 15 for the Pilot. I guess we will never know when Clark's real birthday is.

I think - correct me if I'm wrong - Clark is 3 in Superman canon... at least, in the movies.

I'm not sure that "SV" actually said he was 3 when they found him. He could have been 2 and that adds up to the 12 year meteor shower annivesary.

In Fall of 2001 (when Smallville premiered) his character should have been 14. That's the age that kids start their freshman year in high school.

OK... they are actually pretty consistent about this. His birthday is in May.

"Calling":

Lana: I know it's not your birthday for another 7 minutes, but I wanted to surprise you.
Clark: You did?
Lana: I get the feeling it's not in a good way.
Clark: It's just that it's not my birthday. It's just some day my parents picked out of the calendar for my adoption papers.
Lana: Maybe some of us want to celebrate the day you came into our lives. Clark: I never thought of it that way.
Lana: Make a wish.
Clark: I've always wished for the same thing since I was five.
Lana: And now?
Clark: And now I don't have to... you standing right here in front of me.

~~

They probably picked some random day in May and said he was 2.

This is an interesting contrast, though, to the "Lois making him a cake" in S6... I find it interesting that he and Lana have this talk (with a birthday cake) in S2 and then, in S6, he & Lois have a heart to heart about Lana... love... and cake. LOL

Lois: Whoo!
Chloe: Look, Lois even made her world famous rum cake.
Lois: From scratch.
Clark: Wow, I would never have guessed.
Chloe: You should have seen the first two.
Lois: C'mon, presents before cake.
Lois: *hands him present* Open it.
Lois: Not that you're the dear diary type, but since you keep everything to yourself, I thought it might help.

Later on...

Lois: I thought you'd be outside Lana's door with your binoculars by now.
Clark: I appreciate the concern, but Lana and I are none of your business.
Lois: Look, I'm hardly the one to dish out relationship advice - I've put three exes under military survellaince - I'm hardly qualified to dish out post-relationship tact. But now it's time for some tough love. Lana's going to move on.
Clark: She already has. With Lex.
Lois: And it sucks. But you've got to trust your gut that you did this for a reason. Whatever reason guys have for dumping hot, smart, fun girls these days. Look, give her space, Clark. Your whole night stalker routine? That is going to ruin any good feelings Lana has for you.
Clark: If there are any.
Lois: Look, sometimes you have to tuck your feelings inside. Like stuffing dollars into a piggy bank for a bike you can't quite afford.
Clark: Except I can't quite imagine that there is quite anyone else out there.
Lois: Well, you never know, Clark. Maybe when you finally crack open that piggy bank, it'll turn out that you haven't been saving for a bike. You've really been saving for a Harley.
Clark: There are times when I think you don't know me at all. And other times when I think you know me better than anyone.
Lois: That's what I'm here for, Smallville. One save at a time.
*Chloe comes in with cake.*

I think that's a great observation that should get us back to the topic on hand: Exactly why S8 Clois is NOT awkward and makes perfect sense. ;)

Looks like TPTB have been giving us subtle scenes between Clark and Lois that mimic past scenes between Clark and Lana well before S8.... This was a scene that took place back in Season Five.

It makes sense, I think, to see Lois as replacing Lana in Clark's life and heart.

The two conversations, when analyzed together, show Clark wishing for something since he was 5 that he wasn't going to get - instead, he would get something even better. And that's Lois. And there is direct contrast to the Clark Kent in "Oracle" and the one in "Calling"... Clark is more mature and sober... he's questioning his devotion to Lana and she's broken his heart. He admits to Lois that there are times he feels that she knows him better than anyone.

[SnowBird]

I was going by the academic year. In the academic year, Fall is before Spring.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----



I think - correct me if I'm wrong - Clark is 3 in Superman canon... at least, in the movies.

I'm not sure that "SV" actually said he was 3 when they found him. He could have been 2 and that adds up to the 12 year meteor shower annivesary.

In Fall of 2001 (when Smallville premiered) his character should have been 14. That's the age that kids start their freshman year in high school.

When does Lana actually celebrate his birthday, though? I seem to recall her making a comment about how the meteor shower wasn't just a bad day... it was also the day that Clark came into everyone's lives.

So, if that's the case, then Lana was celebrating his birthday on the anniversary of the meteor shower & that would be in the Fall?

Lana celebrated Clark's birthday in the spring of S2 before he took off for Metropolis for the summer.

Didn't it take 3 years for Clark to get from Krypton to earth when his parents sent him as a Baby?

You can also be 15 when you start high school. Lana was 15 when she started as a freshman.

[Guidron]

Lana celebrated Clark's birthday in the spring of S2 before he took off for Metropolis for the summer.

Didn't it take 3 years for Clark to get from Krypton to earth when his parents sent him as a Baby?

I think in the movies it took about 3 years, but I don't believe they addressed this in the SV universe.

[eas]

You can also be 15 when you start high school. Lana was 15 when she started as a freshman.

I editted my comment after I researched it a bit. LOL

I'm sorry... refresh my memory... when do they say that Lana is 15 when she starts high school?

[SnowBird]

I editted my comment after I researched it a bit. LOL

I'm sorry... refresh my memory... when do they say that Lana is 15 when she starts high school?

Lana celebrated her 18th birthday just before she started school in the fall as a senior in S4. Lois stated that both Lana and the asst. coach were of age (adults) when they were going together. Lana was going to celebrate her birthday in Paris. Therefore, Lana was 15 when she started school as a freshman.

[eas]

Lana celebrated her 18th birthday just before she started school in the fall as a senior in S4. Lois stated that both Lana and the asst. coach were of age (adults) when they were going together. Lana was going to celebrate her birthday in Paris. Therefore, Lana was 15 when she started school as a freshman.

Ahh... I see. Thanks. That's interesting... I'm sensing a bit of a ret-con when it came to Lana to make the Jason/Lana fling kosher.

Anyway... Lana is an outlier..... it's very rare that kids start high school at age 15, to be honest. I think that it may be possible that they held her back a year because of issues with her parents dying or something... but I can't take that and assume that all the characters of "SV" started at 15. Chances are pretty high that they intended Clark, Lana, Chloe, and Pete to all be 14 when the series started & they changed it for Lana to make the Jason thing be legal.

If her birthday is in the summer, then she basically started Kindergarten as a 6 year old... and started school, in general, a year late. It happens, but it's rare. It's usually because the parents feel the kid isn't developmentally able to join K for another year and hold 'em back. That seems odd, given that Lana is supposed to be pretty smart... I guess her parents' death was still affecting her at age 6. Or it's a ret-con.

If this is the case, then both Lana and Lois are the same age & that's another thing they have in common. LOL

[SnowBird]

I have been curious about Clark's birthday and why they picked a spring date. I don't think anyone knows how old Clark was when he was put in the ship on Krypton. He could have been a few weeks to aprox 3 to 6 months. I would like to think that he had a chance to be fed mother's milk or some kind of real milk for some months so he could get a good start in his life before being placed in the ship. How he kept growing on his way to earth is a mystery to me.

Anyway, I can see why Jonathan and Martha picked a spring birthday. 3 years plus months when they found him in the fall and then they went backwards through the summer to the end of May. They didn't know the exact day but at least tried to find the right time of the year.

Still if he was 3 years plus months and you add 12 years since the meteor shower, he would be 15 years plus months when he started high school. This would mean Lois and Clark are closer in age than a year a part.

Clark's age isn't really defined in the beginning so I think they changed his age to fit the situation and made him 14 when he started high school. I know Jonathan said he was 17 as a senior in high school and that would make him 18 when he graduated.

Kids can be 15 when they start high school. In our school district about half the population of school kids go to primary between kindergarden and 1st grade. It helps the kids who are not socially ready or maybe a little slower. I'm not saying this happened to Lana but I can see Lana starting a year later due to the trauma of losing her parents at a young age.

[eas]

I have been curious about Clark's birthday and why they picked a spring date. I don't think anyone knows how old Clark was when he was put in the ship on Krypton. He could have been a few weeks to aprox 3 to 6 months. I would like to think that he had a chance to be fed mother's milk or some kind of real milk for some months so he could get a good start in his life before being placed in the ship. How he kept growing on his way to earth is a mystery to me.

Anyway, I can see why Jonathan and Martha picked a spring birthday. 3 years plus months when they found him in the fall and then they went backwards through the summer to the end of May. They didn't know the exact day but at least tried to find the right time of the year.

Still if he was 3 years plus months and you add 12 years since the meteor shower, he would be 15 years plus months when he started high school. This would mean Lois and Clark are closer in age than a year a part.

Clark's age isn't really defined in the beginning so I think they changed his age to fit the situation and made him 14 when he started high school. I know Jonathan said he was 17 as a senior in high school and that would make him 18 when he graduated.

We don't know that he was 3 when they found - or rather that this is the age that they picked for him. If I remember correctly, he was a toddler when they found him, but they never said what age they picked for him. Other versions have pegged him at 3, but not this version. If they said that he turned 2 that May, then - fast forward 12 years - that places him at 14 in Sept. of 2001.

We have no reason to think otherwise.


Kids can be 15 when they start high school. In our school district about half the population of school kids go to primary between kindergarden and 1st grade. It helps the kids who are not socially ready or maybe a little slower. I'm not saying this happened to Lana but I can see Lana starting a year later due to the trauma of losing her parents at a young age.

I've never seen this... *is curious*. We have pre-school (ages 3 & 4, respectively) and we have a special "summer school" for kids who don't do well in K. But they either join 1st grade after they complete the summer school, or they're held back and do K. again. What's "primary" and where do the kids attend it? Is it a special school or part of the same school? I've never seen this before. And HALF of them go from your school district? Why? Did they ever think that K. wasn't preparing them well enough if THAT many kids aren't ready for 1st grade?

And, I guess, the case can be made that Lana probably was traumatised by her parents' death... at the end of the day, we have to go by show canon in terms of Lana's age when she had the fling with Jason. I still smell a ret-con, but it is the only established canon we have of her age.

[SnowBird]

I've never seen this... *is curious*. We have pre-school (ages 3 & 4, respectively) and we have a special "summer school" for kids who don't do well in K. But they either join 1st grade after they complete the summer school, or they're held back and do K. again. What's "primary" and where do the kids attend it? Is it a special school or part of the same school? I've never seen this before. And HALF of them go from your school district? Why? Did they ever think that K. wasn't preparing them well enough if THAT many kids aren't ready for 1st grade?

I live in mid-Michigan in a farming community made of smaller towns and we have a class B school. The class A would be a big city school.....We also have pre-school. Primary between Kindergarden and 1st grade is part of the grade system within the same school. They also have special classes for kids who get behind from 1st grade through 5th grade. We also have classes for kids who excell above their normal grade. Our school system likes to give every child the best chance to advance grades without falling through the cracks. It still happens but I think less than the big city schools.

[eas]

I live in mid-Michigan in a farming community made of smaller towns and we have a class B school. The class A would be a big city school.....We also have pre-school. Primary between Kindergarden and 1st grade is part of the grade system within the same school. They also have special classes for kids who get behind from 1st grade through 5th grade. We also have classes for kids who excell above their normal grade. Our school system likes to give every child the best chance to advance grades without falling through the cracks. It still happens but I think less than the big city schools.

I guess it is a small town thing... but I live in a pretty small town & in a state that's considered to be have one of the top ranked school systems in the nation... and we've got nothing like that. In fact, I've never lived anywhere (CO, TX, CA, WY, OH, etc.) where I've seen that.

It's cool, though... I'm glad that they have it... we had AP classes when I was growing up, as well as smaller classes for those who fell behind, but not in elementary school. Only in middle school and high school. I learned something new today.

Anyway... we are soooo off-topic that I can't even remember what this thread is about!! LOL

*checks thread title*

Oh, yes... Clark and Lois are awkward together in S8.

I feel like I've contributed my bit towards this... please, folks, carry on....

[individuall]

OK. So I officially don't feel like a crazy person anymore...I finally got a chance to watch '
Committed' again because I was wondering where the hell I got the 'ten year old' thing in my previous post about Lois' age...I just mixed up lines because she says 'that's why you can't take a ten year old on their word' So I wasn't completely fanwanking..Sorry I just feel better...I was starting to think i was hearing things or something...OK...anyway back on topic :D

[stenochick]

I think I'd be the same way if I fell for a guy that I always viewed as being a young, annoying, little pest. (Or so I told myself, while I gazed at his rippling muscles....) LOL

I think I would hyperventilate in his presence. I wouldn't last long at the Daily Planet working side by side with Clark everyday.:)

[SVsleuth]

Kids can be 15 when they start high school. In our school district about half the population of school kids go to primary between kindergarden and 1st grade. It helps the kids who are not socially ready or maybe a little slower. I'm not saying this happened to Lana but I can see Lana starting a year later due to the trauma of losing her parents at a young age.

Just so you know it happens elsewhere too... We have something like this too, in south Louisiana, in St. Tammany Parish (county). After Kindergarten, a child progresses either to 1st grade or "transitional first". It helps the kids who aren't developmentally ready for regular first grade. This takes into account social & emotional development as well as academic. It wouldn't be necessary if parents were allowed to send their kids to school when THEY knew the child was ready. Some kids whose birthdays are near the "cut-off date" are not mature enough to really be in that grade. I homeschooled my kids in the early years. At age 4, one of them was well ahead of his peers academically, but immature socially. Another of them, at the same age was more mature, but not as advanced academically. Each child develops at his or her own pace, so it's good to have options in the early years that will help each child best adapt & thrive in school. In our parish (county) it must be working, because our parish ranks high in the state on test scores, completion of high school, etc.

As for Clark & Lana & Lois's ages....I think the writers just change things along the way to make the plot line fit. Like the way we got several different stories along the way about when & how Chloe's mom left. The writers just don't remember, weren't here when the previous episode aired, or whatever. I don't think the current writers have memorized the 7 previous seasons the way we fans have! So we end up having to live with these inconsistencies that bug the heck out of us.

[stenochick]

I have been curious about Clark's birthday and why they picked a spring date. I don't think anyone knows how old Clark was when he was put in the ship on Krypton. He could have been a few weeks to aprox 3 to 6 months. I would like to think that he had a chance to be fed mother's milk or some kind of real milk for some months so he could get a good start in his life before being placed in the ship. How he kept growing on his way to earth is a mystery to me.

Anyway, I can see why Jonathan and Martha picked a spring birthday. 3 years plus months when they found him in the fall and then they went backwards through the summer to the end of May. They didn't know the exact day but at least tried to find the right time of the year.

Still if he was 3 years plus months and you add 12 years since the meteor shower, he would be 15 years plus months when he started high school. This would mean Lois and Clark are closer in age than a year a part.

Clark's age isn't really defined in the beginning so I think they changed his age to fit the situation and made him 14 when he started high school. I know Jonathan said he was 17 as a senior in high school and that would make him 18 when he graduated.

Kids can be 15 when they start high school. In our school district about half the population of school kids go to primary between kindergarden and 1st grade. It helps the kids who are not socially ready or maybe a little slower. I'm not saying this happened to Lana but I can see Lana starting a year later due to the trauma of losing her parents at a young age.

Good thoughts. I love to ponder this stuff. It's tricky when it comes to Clark though. He was visibly infant looking when his parents (or he himself) placed him on the ship on Krypton) but we are dealing with Kryptonian time and Kryptonian aging, plus traveling light years in space. Time is relative, they say. I think the Kents just felt that developmentally he appears to be two or three years old and put that on the fake birth certificate and fake adoption documents. They probably picked a random fake date of birth that purposely did not conincide with the meteor shower so as to not cause any suspicion.

[Genny]

I always forget that in the states they go by the academic year for your birthday. Here in Canada they go by your birth year. Everyone born in '89, are in the same grade. My birthday is in the fall, therefore I was one of the youngest in my class, but in the US it's different and I forget that, if you're born in the fall you're older.

Anyway, I think Clark was 3 when they found him, I also think Johnathen made a comment about him being 17 in season 3, which would make him 18 in Season 4 when he graduated. I also would like to believe that he was a few months old before getting sent off to earth, so there probably isn't that big of an age difference between Lois and Clark. On top of that, we've never been given a birthday for Lois, so who knows when her birthday is, she may only be a few months older then Clark and not actually a year.

[TWNik]

It's not only awkward, it's badly contrived, forced & has no foundation. Lacks chemistry & offensive.

I have no desire to see Clark end up with someone who slept with their boss. Nasty.

[bychance]

It's not only awkward, it's badly contrived, forced & has no foundation. Lacks chemistry & offensive.

I have no desire to see Clark end up with someone who slept with their boss. Nasty.

Right. :rotfl:

And its not about what you want, its the story. Why do people say things like that? Yeah, I'm sure some Spider-Man fans prefer for Peter Parker to be with Gwen Stacy instead of Mary Jane Watson for whatever trivial reason, but that's how the story goes.

If I remember right, in L&C, when Lois and Clark go on their first date she tells Clark how she got into investigative journalism; it wasn't an interest for her from the beginning. She did it to prove her father wrong. When Clark asks her why she continued to be a reporter, she replied '...I guess I found out, I kind of liked it.'

In one early episode, she told Clark that she'd do anything to get a story; and begrudgingly admitted that him one time that she did sleep with someone and that she'd never do it again, ever.

Why that upsets someone/disqualifies her to be with Clark is beyond me :)